cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Glyph on February 19, 2012, 09:42:03 am
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there are people who are complaining about cavalry(especially heavy cav) being OP and in to great numbers, and therefor they want cavalry to get a nerf or that there should be a max amount of cav in each team. i don't agree on that, the problem with cav imo is that is has the wrong slection type.
as example,. not everyone is good at archery, nor is everyone good at being shielder, or piker, etc. but in crpg, if your good at being cav, you still can't be normal cav, you need money, and so, everyone who has a lot of money, can be an asskicking cav. because, lets face it, cavalry is one of the easier classes to play.
ofc, you can also be cav with 20 armor and a good horse and a heavy lance, but cmon.
i say, lets change the selcetion of who cav play as cav by making it more of a chalange instead of a money matter, just like with the other classes.
the problem is... how?
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Light cav is fine.
If you want to nerf heavy cav, I think the best is to smooth HP and armor values among horses, and at the contrary, make maneuver more extreme.
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I was riding around naked with a nordic sword and no shield wailing on lance cav.
I great cav player on a rouncey with an average weapon can take out a guy on a plated charger in full plate.
Skill is still the deciding factor.
Dan_cheATS wears light armour, uses a mid tier 1h and doesn't ride a plated nightmare. Yet he mostly kicks the arse out of the other cav. He is using skill not money to beat the others into submission/putty.
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Heavy cav eats alot of money, i mean alot. People who have loomed heavy horses sell them after a period of time because they can eat all your money for sure. then people will back to light cav again....
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I think a lot of people completely missed the whole point of this thread. :lol:
tl:dr version: Skill should be a more important factor for cav, and should be used as the balancing factor instead of cost. The problem is how to make cav more skill based.
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I think a lot of people completely missed the whole point of this thread. :lol:
tl:dr version: Skill should be a more important factor for cav, and should be used as the balancing factor instead of cost. The problem is how to make cav more skill based.
Riding on a cav does require some skill, depend if you are a 1 handed cav, lancer or a HA. Cav is the most expensive class ya know :|
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Riding on a cav does require some skill, depend if you are a 1 handed cav, lancer or a HA.
True, but it is widely considered to be the easiest (least skill required) class. OP (and most people I think) believe it should be MORE skill based. i.e bad cav do bad, average cav do average, good cav do good, great cav do great. Not bad cav do average, good cav do very well, and great cav do great.
Cav is the most expensive class ya know :|
And this is what this would solve. If cav had the same skill level requirement as melee to do well, it wouldn't need to be expensive anymore, and the price could be reduced to a more normal amount.
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Heavy cav eats alot of money, i mean alot. People who have loomed heavy horses sell them after a period of time because they can eat all your money for sure. then people will back to light cav again....
You've joined Great Kun... I mean Great Khans. Therefore you lost all rights to complain when it comes to cavalry.
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Money shouldnt be an excuse for balancing anymore, not with these kind of prices of loom points. If that was the case, I'd be whining like fucking hell about HAs upkeep, im losing atleast 12k per hour as a med HA
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Yeah, upkeep doesn't work anymore.
And "skilled" lancer these days is the one who backstab the best. Cav are better ninjas than Thomek's crew.
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You've joined Great Kun... I mean Great Khans. Therefore you lost all rights to complain when it comes to cavalry.
People who complain Cav are people who don't usually play as CAV, the reason they would like to complain it is because once the CAV got nerf again then they will have much more advantage against CAV which means they can kill CAV much more easily. Infantry will whine about CAV and Ranged, then CAV will whine about Pikes, Ranged will whine about shielders and CAV lol. It's like a cycle and it keeps going in a circle, You need to understand that Cav is the most powerful and the most expensive class in the game, this is Mount and blade! nuff said 8-)
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True, but it is widely considered to be the easiest (least skill required) class. OP (and most people I think) believe it should be MORE skill based.
And tell me how cavalry could be more "skillbased" as you say? By nerfing it to hell? It won't work because then even the most skilled cav wouldn't be as effective as their skill-level should allow them to be.
i.e bad cav do bad, average cav do average, good cav do good, great cav do great. Not bad cav do average, good cav do very well, and great cav do great.
WUT?
If cavalry is OP to you, get a polearm. Similiar to what was said about archery (Take a shield). And you don't even need a polearm if you stay focused. Yes cavalry is devastating to the infantry which is advancing and attacking other infantry or lonely wanderers, but isn't that how it is supposed to be? I think cavalry encourages teamplay in that sense too. I always giggle when I put my lance through flanking fail ninja (Thomek not you. When I see your throwing weapons I usually wait until you don't see me :D). Upkeep cost is the only way atm to balance out players who don't have the will to learn and be good cav. There is absolutely no point to use so much gold being bad cavalry.
EDIT: And I would like to add to this conversation that good k/d doesn't neccessarily make you skilled or good cav. If you only spawnrape and take easy kills you can get somewhat decent k/d. IMO good cavalry player knows how to help his team to win by bumping enemies, killing ranged, killing enemy cav or their horses etc. That is how you make your team win the rounds and it is more important to me than a good k/d ratio.
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People who complain Cav are people who don't usually play as CAV, the reason they would like to complain it is because once the CAV got nerf again then they will have much more advantage against CAV which means they can kill CAV much more easily. Infantry will whine about CAV and Ranged, then CAV will whine about Pikes, Ranged will whine about shielders and CAV lol. It's like a cycle and it keeps going in a circle, You need to understand that Cav is the most powerful and the most expensive class in the game, this is Mount and blade! nuff said 8-)
Seems to me that we have another Karasu/Jarlek in the making...
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A lot of the cav that popped up seems to be infantry that decided to put some points into riding. Make it so you can't be a beast of a hybrid. You can't get more than 50 % of your riding into athletics if you're cav and not more than 50 % of your athletics into riding if you're infantry. :twisted:
Nah, honestly, I don't find cav that bad bar for the spawnraping. Fuck spawnraping and the ones who do it.
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Cavalry is super easy and takes no skill at all. That's why no one ever complains about team damage from cavalry.
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A lot of the cav that popped up seems to be infantry that decided to put some points into riding. Make it so you can't be a beast of a hybrid. You can't get more than 50 % of your riding into athletics if you're cav and not more than 50 % of your athletics into riding if you're infantry. :twisted:
Nah, honestly, I don't find cav that bad bar for the spawnraping. Fuck spawnraping and the ones who do it.
Am I a beast of a hybrid with 6ps, 6 riding, 6 athletics and all wpf in polearms? I don't have any shieldskill tho... I think it is perfectly ok to make a hybrid with 2 possible game styles and still be effective if you take your time and learn how and make compromises into your build. Ofc the pure build is always better but playing only cavalry or infantry gets boring to me and I don't want to be retiring or respeccing all the time :mrgreen:. There is other viable hybrids out there like melee/thrower etc. 2 class hybrids are ok, but putting 3 classes in your hybrid is not viable option nowadays I think, and that is how it should be.
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Seems to me that we have another Karasu/Jarlek in the making...
I'm starting to realize you have an obsession with me Leshma, it's getting to a point beyond passionate stalking to an extreme situation of overwhelming necessity of expressing your true feelings and I get it. But let me warn you, I'm an oldschool romanticist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ILDFp5DGA&feature=player_detailpage#t=80s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ILDFp5DGA&feature=player_detailpage#t=80s)
(✿◠‿◠)/ ♥
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And tell me how cavalry could be more "skillbased" as you say? By nerfing it to hell? It won't work because then even the most skilled cav wouldn't be as effective as their skill-level should allow them to be.
WUT?
If cavalry is OP to you, get a polearm. Similiar to what was said about archery (Take a shield). And you don't even need a polearm if you stay focused. Yes cavalry is devastating to the infantry which is advancing and attacking other infantry or lonely wanderers, but isn't that how it is supposed to be? I think cavalry encourages teamplay in that sense too. I always giggle when I put my lance through flanking fail ninja (Thomek not you. When I see your throwing weapons I usually wait until you don't see me :D). Upkeep cost is the only way atm to balance out players who don't have the will to learn and be good cav. There is absolutely no point to use so much gold being bad cavalry.
EDIT: And I would like to add to this conversation that good k/d doesn't neccessarily make you skilled or good cav. If you only spawnrape and take easy kills you can get somewhat decent k/d. IMO good cavalry player knows how to help his team to win by bumping enemies, killing ranged, killing enemy cav or their horses etc. That is how you make your team win the rounds and it is more important to me than a good k/d ratio.
I think you're misunderstanding me a bit. I'm not saying cav should be NERFED per-say, but rather that something should be done to make it a more SKILL BASED class. The whole issue, as you pointed out, is how to do this WITHOUT just nerfing them. Nerfing does not increase how skill based a class is, as you said, it just drops the abilities of everyone.
Slightly off topic: I'm a pikeman, I have no issue dealing with cav as long as I pay attention, for other people though this is not the case.
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I think you're misunderstanding me a bit. I'm not saying cav should be NERFED per-say, but rather that something should be done to make it a more SKILL BASED class. The whole issue, as you pointed out, is how to do this WITHOUT just nerfing them. Nerfing does not increase how skill based a class is, as you said, it just drops the abilities of everyone.
Slightly off topic: I'm a pikeman, I have no issue dealing with cav as long as I pay attention, for other people though this is not the case.
Yeah I think everyone can agree with that, but how is it possible? The whole nature of cavalry is a bit tricky to make it more "difficult" for starters. Who doesn't hate the spawnrape fest? That is what happens when new cav players see the opportunity. Anyhow it is insanely skill based class if we talk about the top cav players. The skill level comes really into play when you fight other cavalry (which is crucially important to make your team win). Trying to kill the top cavalry players on horseback is difficult, but if you are succesful it helps your team and you can get multiplier for reward even if it was only his horse you killed.
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Cav is just ultra fail, especially lancer/xbow cav. End of story
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To make cavalry more skill based remove bumping damage completely (keep knockdown) and reduce the maneuverability of all the horses. One could reduce horse prices to weigh up for the nerfing this will cause.
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Good cav play is:
-dodging arrows/pikes
-picking unaware enemys
-getting a lot of kills
-and I should add: doing no harm to own team...
Maybe they have some disadvantages, but they're still easily the most effective class and they get the most kills if they're doing it right, so the high upkeep is okay.
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How about 40% damage when the player is thrown off their horse after its killed?
Also plated cav is stupid. Normalize the and health values. I agree balancing by money is not the way to go. All it does is penalize new players.
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don't get this tread wrong guys, cav stills holds skill, but if you want to be cav, skill is not enough to be it, unlike the other classes. my pint is, you also need money.
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I think its only fair to give each cav player aids when they spawn so they slowly die that gives them 1 min to be in combat an increase price on horse upkeep..
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Good idea Tzar. But it shouldn't be just cav. Every player who hit someone from behind or shoot at someone should contract AIDS. Then clock starts ticking till it goes from 60 to 0. That would promote skill and fair play.
Those backstabbers (including myself) and my old friendchers still have more than enough time to contribute by killing enemies.
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Yeah, upkeep doesn't work anymore.
And "skilled" lancer these days is the one who backstab the best. Cav are better ninjas than Thomek's crew.
This is because it's nearly the only thing left for us. Charging an aware *anything* involves risks, may it be an archer, a 1h or even a peasant with a stick shorter than my arm. Add that horses go down fairly quickly to ranged damage when they don't hide.
That's why the best cav are the sneakiest. It only takes a different skillset compared to melee or range.
To make cavalry more skill based remove bumping damage completely (keep knockdown) and reduce the maneuverability of all the horses. One could reduce horse prices to weigh up for the nerfing this will cause.
Nonsense. Even a +3 arabian warhorse is barely able to turn faster than a RL supertanker
Yes, a supertanker. Like this one :
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And on the contrary, infantry that wear less than 20kg of equipment move like mosquitos.
Yes, mosquitos. Like this one :
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Now, you might think this is ok in terms of balance. It is not. Cav should be a decent counter to range. They aren't because of all footmen, ranged are the most elusive. The only way to reliably get one is to remain unseen and unheard, which pretty much means the ranged was terribad. Fact is, the easiest prey for cav are people with heavy armor and/or a shield, because they don't have Unreal Tournament-like movement freedom.
Furthermore, decreasing maneuver will only make the skill level of cav lower. Maneuver gives possibilities, and it takes skill to use these possibilities to the best. At the extreme, if all horses were unable to turn, the difference between good and bad cav would be non-existent.
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Should be own WPF for Horsemanship, the higher you go the more chargedmg and knockdown you get. And with 0 you get no knockdown or bumpdmg. :)
Horse and possibly rider should take damage when hitting other players while at full speed. Esp when they come at full speed jumping and crashing into the stonewall of some ruin poking me ontop with the lance midair.
Cost: If it was possible to run around in top quality armor on a armorplated warhorse and break even, then everyone would be doing it. And the servers would be horrible for everyone. Im just breaking even playing with my rusbow and 2x bodkins.
The inflation in crpg is pretty high, if this rate keeps up, then upkeep will soon not be a limiting factor for any playstyle.
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don't get this tread wrong guys, cav stills holds skill, but if you want to be cav, skill is not enough to be it, unlike the other classes. my pint is, you also need money.
Nice edit to OP. Yes I get what you mean. But is the upkeep cost really too much? I don't see heavy cavalry over powered. Usually I wipe my ass with the heavy riders because my courser is superior to their plated donkeys in cav fights (one exception is that Kapikulu guy, he is insane.) Of course their heavy horses are better against infantry in some situations. They dont need to be too careful about when they engage because their horse can take some beating. On the other hand they are slower and are easilly avoidable in the last second. I think that being heavy cav should cost you a lot like it is now. If horse costs go down, horsemen would use heavier armor (plates which would benefit a rider more than common inf) with the unarmored horses. That would not only look stupid, but would be unfair against infantry.
Guys riding with armored horses and heavy armor do it because they can and have the gold for it. Maybe they are op in some situations, but isn't full plated 2h spamberger too? You also need gold to do that. Wasn't the upkeep to make people play with lighter gear too... If there really is a problem, I see it isn't only about horse upkeep, it is about the whole upkeep structure.
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Should be own WPF for Horsemanship, the higher you go the more chargedmg and knockdown you get. And with 0 you get no knockdown or bumpdmg. :)
Horse and possibly rider should take damage when hitting other players while at full speed. Esp when they come at full speed jumping and crashing into the stonewall of some ruin poking me ontop with the lance midair.
Cost: If it was possible to run around in top quality armor on a armorplated warhorse and break even, then everyone would be doing it. And the servers would be horrible for everyone. Im just breaking even playing with my rusbow and 2x bodkins.
The inflation in crpg is pretty high, if this rate keeps up, then upkeep will soon not be a limiting factor for any playstyle.
if inflation keeps going like this, yes, cav will be playable with whatever equipment, but for new players this isn't the case, becasue they still want heirlooms and don't have a lot of gens. i feel like a lot of changes have been made to the mod which have been in the disadvantage of new players. which is a waist imo.
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Seems to me that we have another Karasu/Jarlek in the making...
I like who this comes from.
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If inflation goes like this the newcomers can play longer in whichever gear they want when they sell their first loompoint. If they don't play with totally insane gear, they are able to play several generations with that gold they got from that first point... Just my 2 cents
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Make cavs hoofs (clopping? meh) easier to hear from behind when they are going at or near full speed or just all the time. Ninja cav problems solved.
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Make cavs hoofs (clopping? meh) easier to hear from behind when they are going at or near full speed or just all the time. Ninja cav problems solved.
That can't be changed I think.
Anyway cav is fine. Now archer damage is better there's not really a problem. No need to come up with some silly solution to making it more 'skillfull' or whatever. The game is now pretty much balanced. No need to touch things unecessarily.
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Stay near pikeman
Wait for pikeman to stab horse anywhere so it rears
???
profit
IMHO, going to have to fix up how jacked up rearing horses is with polearms before you nerf them since you can stab them in the side and they stop and because the pikes quick enough, you get a free headshot out of it which usually kills even a champ cata.
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Make cavs hoofs (clopping? meh) easier to hear from behind when they are going at or near full speed or just all the time. Ninja cav problems solved.
That is client side, so you can make the sound higher yourselves. Some people used to do this during beta.
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cavalry is balanced, and not to many people use it imo, but it isn't the cool cav i want to be playing becasue i don't want to be a ninja, and even with a large warhorse like i have it's difficult not to be one. and i can afford heavy cav, because i sold my looms, but not everyone can do that, which makes the selection unfair imo.
btw, if you just make sound of horses louder, it will just be a nerf, not getting rid of ninja horses.
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Cav is not the easiest class. Go ahead and respec to one. If you do super well, then congrats you are a good cav player. If you die early and often, you are average.
Cav is very fragile (cuz of speed bonus)...even heavier horses like destriers. This is true even more now with the cav nerf because leg damage got increased against horses. Also, you have to be VERY picky on who you attack, from what angle, and what terrain is surrounding your target. It is definitely a skill-based class, not just a money one. Infantry is easier to play because it is more forgiving of mistakes you may make. If you make a mistake with cav, it will kill you more often than not. It's a high risk/high reward class. You have to be skilled to maximize your killing power and minimize your risk and exposure.
Yes, some maps are easier for cav to do well (Large, open ones) just like some maps are better for infantry or archers. All-on-all, cav is well balanced. I think they should remove the leg-damage nerf actually because now that archers are back up to snuff cav is balanced against them.
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Cav is very fragile (cuz of speed bonus)...even heavier horses like destriers. This is true even more now with the cav nerf because leg damage got increased against horses.
I use Champ Plated Charger and this rings very true. Any decent hit on leg or head is fatal now. I find the nerf too much but we cav aren't allowed to QQ our QQ credit has run out apparently (unlike ranged).
My CPC can get taken down with 1 hit from a battleaxe, I have the videos cos we did some testing, just need to upload to YT then share. The guy i test with had 8 PS, quite high but still srsly 1 hit lol. Then you take into account the free hit enemy has when you get dismounted lol.
p.s. 3 overhead hits and 1 to his body with my MW HBS (5PS)...makes sense now why I read in the servers that people are saying nerf infantry. Don't shoot the messenger.
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I don't get the complaints about ninja cav. Infantry bitch constantly about heavy horses being OP so they made them die in 2 hits so obviously the cav player is going to be more selective about targets and not do front engagements.
And it isn't to cheap, every heavy cav I know is selling looms to infantry pay for upkeep. If anything this shows infantry aren't paying enough upkeep if they can afford a half mil gold for a loom
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Cav is not the easiest class. Go ahead and respec to one. If you do super well, then congrats you are a good cav player. If you die early and often, you are average.
Cav is very fragile (cuz of speed bonus)...even heavier horses like destriers. This is true even more now with the cav nerf because leg damage got increased against horses. Also, you have to be VERY picky on who you attack, from what angle, and what terrain is surrounding your target. It is definitely a skill-based class, not just a money one. Infantry is easier to play because it is more forgiving of mistakes you may make. If you make a mistake with cav, it will kill you more often than not. It's a high risk/high reward class. You have to be skilled to maximize your killing power and minimize your risk and exposure.
Yes, some maps are easier for cav to do well (Large, open ones) just like some maps are better for infantry or archers. All-on-all, cav is well balanced. I think they should remove the leg-damage nerf actually because now that archers are back up to snuff cav is balanced against them.
I kinda disagree with this. Mainly with the wording. Cav isn't about being "skilled" it's about being smart. With cavalry you have to outsmart, not outskill your opponent. Other than that, I completely agree.
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I kinda disagree with this. Mainly with the wording. Cav isn't about being "skilled" it's about being smart. With cavalry you have to outsmart, not outskill your opponent. Other than that, I completely agree.
Ahh I see what you mean. I guess I meant "skill in strategic thinking" and planning ahead. It's a kind of skill, but not the same as manual blocking skill or something like that. Either way, Cav is NOT an "I have a lot of money so I win" class. Not even close.
How do we get more QQ credits? I think cav is too fragile now.
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I've played cav from the git-go. I've always played cav with moderate hybrid for infantry. Cavalry in a map is like air power, especially with all the extra HA and Xbow cav we're seeing these days. If one side's cavalry can eliminate the other side's cavalry then most likely, their side will win the battle. If your side keeps losing by getting destroyed in the last 2 minutes of the battle by the enemy cav, don't cry and moan about their cavalry being OP, instead cry and moan about your cav not being able to do their most important and initial job in any battle and most likely your cav are a majority HA and Xbow. Without lancers, a team's cav force will have very little effect on the enemy cav. Sure ya'll say cav should go after archers, but the first thing I ever do, and most cav ever do is look for the enemy cavalry.
The only solution I would consider and will propose now: Figure out a way to alter the autobalance so that it recognizes who and how many are playing cavalry in a map. Ensure that each team has a relatively even number of cav. HA/Xbow cav should not have any special effect as these players have decided on a hybrid that may survive longer, but does the job of both archers and cav halfass.
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I've played cav from the git-go. I've always played cav with moderate hybrid for infantry. Cavalry in a map is like air power, especially with all the extra HA and Xbow cav we're seeing these days. If one side's cavalry can eliminate the other side's cavalry then most likely, their side will win the battle. If your side keeps losing by getting destroyed in the last 2 minutes of the battle by the enemy cav, don't cry and moan about their cavalry being OP, instead cry and moan about your cav not being able to do their most important and initial job in any battle and most likely your cav are a majority HA and Xbow. Without lancers, a team's cav force will have very little effect on the enemy cav. Sure ya'll say cav should go after archers, but the first thing I ever do, and most cav ever do is look for the enemy cavalry.
The only solution I would consider and will propose now: Figure out a way to alter the autobalance so that it recognizes who and how many are playing cavalry in a map. Ensure that each team has a relatively even number of cav. HA/Xbow cav should not have any special effect as these players have decided on a hybrid that may survive longer, but does the job of both archers and cav halfass.
Most lancers I know tend to avoid direct encounters with other lancers, because it really is too random and can make you die very early. It's your team's HA/HC job to take out enemy melee cav that venture too far from their blob.
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Most lancers I know tend to avoid direct encounters with other lancers, because it really is too random and can make you die very early. It's your team's HA/HC job to take out enemy melee cav that venture too far from their blob.
i always go for other lancers since i see them as a both a high threat to my team, and a challenge
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hey here is an idea, maybe to make hybrids weaker bring back the bonuses you get for riding skill.
This means those who invest heavily in cav get bonuses that people who are hybrids don't get. Also reduce horse breakage by riding skill will mean less hybrids.
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hey here is an idea, maybe to make hybrids weaker bring back the bonuses you get for riding skill.
This means those who invest heavily in cav get bonuses that people who are hybrids don't get. Also reduce horse breakage by riding skill will mean less hybrids.
How would that make cav more "skillbased", I'm just asking. It would be making everything too much build dependable.
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I use Champ Plated Charger and this rings very true. Any decent hit on leg or head is fatal now. I find the nerf too much but we cav aren't allowed to QQ our QQ credit has run out apparently (unlike ranged).
My CPC can get taken down with 1 hit from a battleaxe, I have the videos cos we did some testing, just need to upload to YT then share. The guy i test with had 8 PS, quite high but still srsly 1 hit lol. Then you take into account the free hit enemy has when you get dismounted lol.
p.s. 3 overhead hits and 1 to his body with my MW HBS (5PS)...makes sense now why I read in the servers that people are saying nerf infantry. Don't shoot the messenger.
Please do, i just tested it with a plate charger and rush into the battle field and my horse got 1 hitted by a GLA , seems like Armorued horse is only good vs archers...bad for vs Infantry
Yes i myself (Cav) are now complaining because before the patch Cav was pretty balance, now people who uses heavy horses are not that OP anymore and can get one hitted most of the time. It is 100% clear that light horses are much better than armoured horse. Armoured horses are only good for HA. Nuff said
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hey here is an idea, maybe to make hybrids weaker bring back the bonuses you get for riding skill.
This, because this gen I'm going pure cav. As in, 'my horse is my legs'. 6 ps, 8 riding, 3 shield.
That's it. I'm just a selfish piece of kill-whoring shit. Though, I could rationalize my demand by suggesting that riding skill points 1-5 offer not much of a bonus, but points > 5 (that's 6, 7, 8, etc. for those of you who are really fucking stupid) offer exponentially greater speed/maneuver bonuseseses. In my experience, just 4 or 5 riding is really rather effective--to much so I think. Reward the pure-blooded cavalry, I says.
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i always go for other lancers since i see them as a both a high threat to my team, and a challenge
That's a completely valid tactic that will, I think, pay on the long term. By training your lancer vs lancer skills, you will be more succesfull at it.
This, because this gen I'm going pure cav. As in, 'my horse is my legs'. 6 ps, 8 riding, 3 shield.
That's it. I'm just a selfish piece of kill-whoring shit. Though, I could rationalize my demand by suggesting that riding skill points 1-5 offer not much of a bonus, but points > 5 (that's 6, 7, 8, etc. for those of you who are really fucking stupid) offer exponentially greater speed/maneuver bonuseseses. In my experience, just 4 or 5 riding is really rather effective--to much so I think. Reward the pure-blooded cavalry, I says.
Yes please. Build decisions are really horrible for melee/cav "hybrids" because the two most important skills for infantry are PS and ATH. PS you can't get a lot with a proper horse (read : not a truck), and ATH which is useless when you are on your horse. Here's an example :
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 15
Agility: 21
Hit points: 50
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 7
Athletics: 7
Riding: 7
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 3
One Handed: 108
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 87
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
A level 27 lancer, or a level 27 agi shielder with 108 1h prof :?
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Yes i myself (Cav) are now complaining because before the patch Cav was pretty balance, now people who uses heavy horses are not that OP anymore and can get one hitted most of the time. It is 100% clear that light horses are much better than armoured horse. Armoured horses are only good for HA. Nuff said
Yeah, before the last patch (and after the archer nerf) cav was so pretty well balanced, that half of the server was riding around on horse. Suuuuuuure. :rolleyes:
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Yeah, before the last patch (and after the archer nerf) cav was so pretty well balanced, that half of the server was riding around on horse. Suuuuuuure. :rolleyes:
WHen archers were nerfed, cav got too crazy. Now archers are back up to power, but cav was also nerfed pretty bad. This was an overkill adjustment. They should have EITHER buffed back archers OR nerfed cav. They did both. Now that archers are back to "normal" the horse-leg nerf should be reversed.
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WHen archers were nerfed, cav got too crazy. Now archers are back up to power, but cav was also nerfed pretty bad. This was an overkill adjustment. They should have EITHER buffed back archers OR nerfed cav. They did both. Now that archers are back to "normal" the horse-leg nerf should be reversed.
The biggest lol was a few mini patches ago, where one of the patch notes was "Arabian War Horse HP buff" which went up 10 points. Most pointless things devs ever did imo, just like a spit in the face tbh. "Here, have this fail 10 extra HP, while we go and make ranged more Op than ever against cav in a few days anyway".
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That's a completely valid tactic that will, I think, pay on the long term. By training your lancer vs lancer skills, you will be more succesfull at it.
Yes please. Build decisions are really horrible for melee/cav "hybrids" because the two most important skills for infantry are PS and ATH. PS you can't get a lot with a proper horse (read : not a truck), and ATH which is useless when you are on your horse. Here's an example :
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 15
Agility: 21
Hit points: 50
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 7
Athletics: 7
Riding: 7
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 3
One Handed: 108
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 87
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
A level 27 lancer, or a level 27 agi shielder with 108 1h prof :?
This is disgusting how low WPF cavalry needs to be successful. Must be nice to not have to have a minimum of 4 WM and all WPF into your main weapon just for it to function properly :?
All cavalry weapons needs to have a minimum WPF requirement (125?) to be used while riding or else it should be wiggling like Red Foo, making it nearly impossible to be accurate in their swings and lancings.
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The biggest lol was a few mini patches ago, where one of the patch notes was "Arabian War Horse HP buff" which went up 10 points. Most pointless things devs ever did imo, just like a spit in the face tbh. "Here, have this fail 10 extra HP, while we go and make ranged more Op than ever against cav in a few days anyway".
arabian shouldnt have gotten it anyways, its the horse of choice for HA's due to maneuverability to avoid other cav and this just made it harder for ranged players on foot to bring it down
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arabian shouldnt have gotten it anyways, its the horse of choice for HA's due to maneuverability to avoid other cav and this just made it harder for ranged players on foot to bring it down
And, why should they have an easy time bringing it down? Now it's just too easy for foot-ranged, 1-3 shots, while HA has to take into account loads of factors, now he has a weak as shit horse too...
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arabian shouldnt have gotten it anyways, its the horse of choice for HA's due to maneuverability to avoid other cav and this just made it harder for ranged players on foot to bring it down
It's the horse of choice for many of the best lancers to...
The 7 riding just makes it difficult to attain for most people, especially those with a hybrid build.
But on that note I now have a Champ Courser AND a Champ Arabian to choose from :)
The courser is actually better for avoiding other cav, the speed lets you keep distance whilst shooting horses and also lets you keep up with everyone. As long as you know how to use it's lower manoeuvrability. Plus when you are shooting horses the lack of accuracy from higher speed doesn't matter much. The Arabian is better vs infantry for both HA and lancers because you can dart in and out of them a lot more and avoid there weapons.
Anyway from what I've experienced so far I'm not to fussed about ranged damage vs horses. It's just back to normal levels again from non-existant damage. And I haven't really gotten near melee enough to notice the extra damage on the legs. I can imagine it's more noticeable with a heavy horse though.
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So you cav guys are saying cav is better off as a hit and run class? Maybe then nerf its close quarters abilities namely forcefield shields and slow speed bumps and cater them more for quick attacks and escaping?
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kaf I only need 6 riding, so I use an 18/18 melee/cav hybrid at level 30
2 if, 6 ps, 4 shield, 6 ath, 6 riding, 5 wm. 113 1h/110 polearms
sucks if you need/want 7 riding, you really fuck yourself over. although i used to play with 15 str on my builds, having 1 more powerstrike is huge.
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There are 2 kinds of cav - one kind kills you when you're back is turned, the other kind gets killed by you when it isn't. I don't think this is a skill difference, it's just a personality difference.
Bring back thrust angle and a lot of people will move away from cheap kills.
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-You could make cav more skill based by, actually making horses respond to pain.
I'm all for a cav getting a kill on me, if they actually get the drop on me. Front or back. But it really does irk me when I shoot a horse straight on as it closes, and the thing keeps charging like it wasn't a member of a species notoriously prone to: 1) getting spooked. 2) suffering potentially severe injuries when colliding with things at top speeds. Of course that would be less so for armored horses.
-That, or maybe a riding-level-based chance of getting knocked off the horse if it gets hit hard (would of course have to define hard). Whether or not the horse dies.
Those are my suggestions.
-Oh and, make lances auto-break after 2 couchkills.