Print Page - Contributing to the team

This is in reply to recommended action by DarKKarma - Not sure if it's in the right place or not. Please move to corresponding thread if needed

Quote

Again, if you all want to argue about what is "contributing to the team and what isn't", then make your own thread about it. Your clan alone can probably cite far more examples of getting banned for similar reasons than any other NA clan out there right now. I know you won't because you all kno how fucking ridiculous this all is and that you are in the wrong here. I guarantee you that if you guys (Noobie, Noodles and all of the other offenders over recent times) actually just played the god damn game instead of looking for loop holes in the official rules to justify your slap dick behavior, you would be just fine like you all were a few months ago.

There has been a big debate on the North American Server about what is contributing to your team and what is not.

A few examples:
-Defending a ruin while your team runs into an open field and dies to their archers... who is in the wrong?
-Letting your team know that you are building a siege tower and they still run into battle and die then complain about you delaying/valor farming?
Charging into battle without any thoughts going behind it and dying right away? (Not considered leeching if you "try" - Very smart to do if you like leeching but doing it legally)

The common sense clause comes into play in a lot of these situations; however there is always grey areas and this is often used as a fallback for admins. I believe the rules need to be updated per incident, to have a clear cut way of ruling and avoid any dispute of said ruling (much like any legal system).
This should the common sense approach to future rulings, and it would get rid of any trivial decisions.

I am just bored with the system as it currently is where there's a multiplier and depending how long the rounds last.
The old xp system would allow for the teams to cooperate and it might've seemed like a giant moshpit where people would fight the other team but there was actual teamwork involved. I miss the shield wall formations, the siege shields defending key positions with melee defending the archers, the cavalry formations where they would flank right and right as the melee started, wreck havoc upon the enemy team.
Everyone needed to stay together in order to maximize the xp and win the round.

Quote from: SuperNewb on February 17, 2012, 08:37:18 pm

-Letting your team know that you are building a siege tower and they still run into battle and die then complain about you delaying/valor farming?

My brother, you can't even imagine, how true is the quoted part.

And then chadz "nerfs" teamwork even more by putting upkeep on Siege Equipement. That is just sick.

chadz would be a good developer for Modern Warfare kind of game - atm he did something like MW to Warband, but in medieval times and in a "bit" worse quality.

I think it is important to discuss this topic thoroughly and I suggest a simple and brief document outlining what are the go's and no-go's in cRPG:

(click to show/hide)

*crushed by wall of text*

Your team is dumb, running into archer fire. What you COULD have done is use your shield and protect them, engage archers, flank enemy, plead with them to seek cover, protect a friendly archer, etc etc. What you did was sit by yourself in a bush for 5 minutes 8 rounds in a row and got 24h ban, sounds pretty lenient to me.

Noone listens to you because you arent a team player and lack any leadership. Were you trying to change team strategy? Nope, You were sitting in a bush naked doing nothing.

If I call out a game plan at the start of the round and none of the zerg listen, do I keep running there by myself? Nope, I adapt and make the best out of the situation. I support my team even if I think what they're doing is foolish.

Teamwork is working as a team. You would give your team a better chance to win if you were working with them instead of by yourself, and yes even if they are being foolish (you don't have to run with them, but you could try to flank the enemy who is attacking them).

I honestly don't care if they are outright breaking the rules or not. If you aren't trying to be a team player you should get the ban hammer until you can try to incorporate a tiny bit of teamwork into your play style.

Quote from: Digglez on February 17, 2012, 08:54:37 pm

Your team is dumb, running into archer fire. What you COULD have done is use your shield and protect them, engage archers, flank enemy, plead with them to seek cover, protect a friendly archer, etc etc. What you did was sit by yourself in a bush for 5 minutes 8 rounds in a row and got 24h ban, sounds pretty lenient to me.

Noone listens to you because you arent a team player and lack any leadership. Were you trying to change team strategy? Nope, You were sitting in a bush naked doing nothing.

If I call out a game plan at the start of the round and none of the zerg listen, do I keep running there by myself? Nope, I adapt and make the best out of the situation. I support my team even if I think what they're doing is foolish.

Now what if somebody else wrote this thread? Would you have said the same things? Don't just start complaining about me for my wrongdoings but instead contribute to the discussion about teamwork. I admit I have not done nothing to help the team in the most recent days because the rounds always seem to be the same. Run in, fight, kill as many people, die then do it again, map change, repeat. Is that really teamwork?

The fact that 95% (hard data) of people are never banned or warned by admins about leeching or failing to contribute makes me think that no discussion is necessary.

Every now and then doing something silly is (imo) fine... I remember one time where a bunch of Invictus held the center of a lake and were the last people alive. Looking down at the lake in spectator was hilarious when you saw the mass of water trails closing in from all sides.

..but if we were to do that several rounds or maps in a row the whole 'common sense' thing comes into play. It sounds like the issues you are bringing up in this thread involved many rounds (or even days) of people using similar tactics, and multiple complaints from different people.

As Dynamike said trying to make a rule for stuff like this would be way too tedious and detailed.

Quote from: SuperNewb on February 17, 2012, 09:00:58 pm

Now what if somebody else wrote this thread? Would you have said the same things? Don't just start complaining about me for my wrongdoings but instead contribute to the discussion about teamwork. I admit I have not done nothing to help the team in the most recent days because the rounds always seem to be the same. Run in, fight, kill as many people, die then do it again, map change, repeat. Is that really teamwork?

True teamwork is shown on rageball, unfortunately. All other game types emphasize the individual and his ability. I wish team work would come back, but that's why i got a clan. Or not even a clan, but some guys that i fight with. Like today, me, mori and digglez made a neat little team. Digglez was 1h/sheild throwing, Mori was 2h/archer and I was the pike support. A nice three man squad that worked pretty well together(considering i was only level 15-18 for most of it), and we (tried) to adapt to our team and support them, while maintaining our 3 man group.(needless to say, we'd often get shafted, and we also would have good rounds.) If people worked in small groups(heh a warband :twisted:) things might be more interesting.

Have you seen the Kutt guys? they work together too(and crutch armor a bit) Teamwork is there, you just have to find it.

why would you build a siege tower in a battle? thats just retarded

Noobie, for weeks people (moderators/game admins) have been warning you of your shenanigans of goofing off in battle. The archived "closed" ban threads in the past also sometimes mention it, and I personally witnessed at least 4 warnings in the past over this nonsense.

Just... Play the game, and stop toeing the line so much on purpose.

Noobie whats your work out regime I wanna get abs like you

Quote from: Osiris on February 17, 2012, 09:09:50 pm

why would you build a siege tower in a battle? thats just retarded

This!

CBA to check who wrote it but if you consider upkeep on siege gear a nerf to team play on battle - you are doing it wrong.

If you want to build a useful siege tower, do it on SIEGE obviously...

It's so hard for me to understand how people can not possess the common sense to just play the game mode they are playing.

If we ever add a conquest like game mode where you have 5 different capture points this is something completely different, "fortress" building would make sense then.

Siege equipment should be easier to make, cheaper to use, and more effective in any gamemode because I never see anyone building anything on siege and ramming two large siege towers together in an open field on a battle server would be sweet.

I want to see more catapult battles damnit!

ITS A BATTLE. you dont use fucking siege engines in a pitched battle

Quote from: Osiris on February 17, 2012, 09:42:02 pm

ITS A BATTLE. you dont use fucking siege engines in a pitched battle

Having a mobile defensive position seems like a pretty logical step in regards to warfare.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I liked seige towers on battle servers (especially open field battles). having them get hijacked was always a possibility (you can hide in the tower all you want, but if you aren't defending the base then the enemy can move you wherever they want).

Maybe they should add some ability to create a little fortification (that isn't moveable) would be a cool addition for siege equipment.

Well I would not entirely disagree that it seems okish if you do it on a open plains map at the spot your teams camps anyhow.

But telling your team you are going to spawn camp and build a siege tower is not an excuse to be entirely useless towards winning the round.

I like how noobie gets temp'd for this but the horde of flavor of the week horse crossbowman who think they can rohypnol can draw out rounds all day with impunity even though they fucking suck

Quote from: Dan lol on February 17, 2012, 11:02:32 pm

I like how noobie gets temp'd for this but the horde of flavor of the week horse crossbowman who think they can rohypnol can draw out rounds all day with impunity even though they fucking suck

It involves shooting at the enemy, and not throwing four bags of rocks into the sea or starting a camp in a corner of the map.

Quote from: Tears of Destiny on February 17, 2012, 11:07:14 pm

It involves shooting at the enemy, and not throwing four bags of rocks into the sea or starting a camp in a corner of the map.

I was not banned for doing that. I was banned for hiding in a nook, killing someone, going back to the nook, and then just about to kill someone else and then got banned.

Firing 1 shot every 10 seconds as the last one left, as opposed to baiting loose enemies into melee. Tomato, tomäto?

Let's take this hypothetical situation:

You and two other guys decide to work together. You tell your team to camp the ruins, 'cause you have a good idea. You three quickly build a weapons rack and then one of you starts putting up siege shields while the other two start building a healing tent. You've quickly set up a defensible base with access to healing and ammunition. However, during this time, most of your team runs off and gets killed. The three of you are still holding and fighting from your base. The round ends, your team loses. Your team starts accusing you of delaying and leeching even though what you did would have been quite beneficial to your team if they all didn't run off and die. A mod gets tired of the complaints and kicks/bans the people who did it.

There's a lot of cool uses for weapons racks and healing tents, but I would be afraid of getting kicked for even attempting to build something like that during a round.

To me, battle seems to have devolved into a place where all the tryhards charge at each other and slap their dicks together for 6 minutes to get a multi. And it's kind of a shame that things are that way because of all the potential we have in this mod. I have a feeling that things are going to stay that way though, so we have to live with it.

However, something that I really think would be neat and would really add a lot to the community would be to redo siege. In its current incarnation, siege is a respawning battle mode where one team tries to stand in one spot for a certain amount of time. Not too exciting. But, what if we changed how the siege maps operate? Many players have been asking for capturable spawn points in siege for a LONG time. It's already in the mod, why can't we add it?

We could have a siege mode where the attacking team is given a few construction sites and some weapon racks right off the bat. There's a ton of possibilities and I have a shit-ton of ideas, I just don't want to make my post longer than it already is.

Meow if you're reading this, I just feel that the community could really benefit from a mode with more options for creativity and tactical gameplay and I think a new siege would be a relatively easy and fun way to do it.

Quote from: rustyspoon on February 17, 2012, 11:31:15 pm

Let's take this hypothetical situation:

You and two other guys decide to work together. You tell your team to camp the ruins, 'cause you have a good idea. You three quickly build a weapons rack and then one of you starts putting up siege shields while the other two start building a healing tent. You've quickly set up a defensible base with access to healing and ammunition. However, during this time, most of your team runs off and gets killed. The three of you are still holding and fighting from your base. The round ends, your team loses. Your team starts accusing you of delaying and leeching even though what you did would have been quite beneficial to your team if they all didn't run off and die. A mod gets tired of the complaints and kicks/bans the people who did it.

There's a lot of cool uses for weapons racks and healing tents, but I would be afraid of getting kicked for even attempting to build something like that during a round.

To me, battle seems to have devolved into a place where all the tryhards charge at each other and slap their dicks together for 6 minutes to get a multi. And it's kind of a shame that things are that way because of all the potential we have in this mod. I have a feeling that things are going to stay that way though, so we have to live with it.

However, something that I really think would be neat and would really add a lot to the community would be to redo siege. In its current incarnation, siege is a respawning battle mode where one team tries to stand in one spot for a certain amount of time. Not too exciting. But, what if we changed how the siege maps operate? Many players have been asking for capturable spawn points in siege for a LONG time. It's already in the mod, why can't we add it?

We could have a siege mode where the attacking team is given a few construction sites and some weapon racks right off the bat. There's a ton of possibilities and I have a shit-ton of ideas, I just don't want to make my post longer than it already is.

Meow if you're reading this, I just feel that the community could really benefit from a mode with more options for creativity and tactical gameplay and I think a new siege would be a relatively easy and fun way to do it.

Signed,
Dravic and other people who enjoy building, teamworking and helping eachother while playing together.

I will bold the part that says what happens on the servers EVERY FUCKIN TIME some people try to cooperate:

Quote from: rustyspoon on February 17, 2012, 11:31:15 pm

Let's take this hypothetical situation:

You and two other guys decide to work together. You tell your team to camp the ruins, 'cause you have a good idea. You three quickly build a weapons rack and then one of you starts putting up siege shields while the other two start building a healing tent. You've quickly set up a defensible base with access to healing and ammunition. However, during this time, most of your team runs off and gets killed. The three of you are still holding and fighting from your base. The round ends, your team loses. Your team starts accusing you of delaying and leeching even though what you did would have been quite beneficial to your team if they all didn't run off and die. A mod gets tired of the complaints and kicks/bans the people who did it.

Today Templar_Volky insulted me and Nyu of the Bleeding(?) Rose (or something like that, for sure of... ... Rose) of being useless, called us leechers, wanted to ban us...

Oh, he also called me useless noob, cause... I "dont use any weapon !!!111oneoneone" - problem is, I had 0 slot hammer all the freakin ban.

And then he threatened me of banning for all those "horrible" things I did...

I don't mind muting some ignorants, but on top of that, he destroyed our Constructions. That's something I can't stand.

Official please:

Add a new rule: destroying your teammates siege equipement is the same as teamhitting them, thus bannable offence.

Quote from: Dan lol on February 17, 2012, 11:02:32 pm

I like how noobie gets temp'd for this but the horde of flavor of the week horse crossbowman who think they can rohypnol can draw out rounds all day with impunity even though they fucking suck

And the award for apples to oranges post of the day goes to ...

You're right, at least noobie has a chance of winning

As nice as noobie's armor-less abs are, im gonna say that im more afraid of the horse crossbow bump combo than I am of his rocks or metal gauntlets.

Quote from: Darkkarma on February 18, 2012, 12:07:04 am

As nice as noobie's armor-less abs are, im gonna say that im more afraid of the horse crossbow bump combo than I am of his rocks or metal gauntlets.

+3 awlpike
+3 straw hat
+3 hourglass gauntlets,
+3 rocks

You better be afraid.

nerf cav

Quote from: SuperNewb on February 18, 2012, 12:20:45 am

+3 awlpike
+3 straw hat
+3 hourglass gauntlets,
+3 rocks

You better be afraid.

Disagreements aside, those are some bitching looms.

Quote from: Darkkarma on February 18, 2012, 12:22:36 am

Disagreements aside, those are some bitching looms.

And that is why I run around naked.

If the team follows 2 or more different plans, it's bound to fail. Sometimes it gets lucky but usually, it's a fail.

Basically it's better to follow the blob usually, and be around to help team mates out before they all die off and its 20 enemy vs your 5/10.

Sometimes you might win but with the numbers against you, it's usually gonna be a lose.

Even if an entire team sticks to a plan it's not guaranteed.

Nobody is saying you have to directly support the Zerg element in every move they make. However, when all noobie and other trolls are doing is camping bushes naked until theyre the last person alive round after round I would consider that excessive trolling, delaying, valour farming and just straight douche-baggery.

Cases closed, play the game trolls, obey simple rules that the servers have or get the fuck out please. K thanks!

Quote from: SuperNewb on February 17, 2012, 08:37:18 pm

This is in reply to recommended action by DarKKarma - Not sure if it's in the right place or not. Please move to corresponding thread if needed

There has been a big debate on the North American Server about what is contributing to your team and what is not.

A few examples:
-Defending a ruin while your team runs into an open field and dies to their archers... who is in the wrong?
-Letting your team know that you are building a siege tower and they still run into battle and die then complain about you delaying/valor farming?
Charging into battle without any thoughts going behind it and dying right away? (Not considered leeching if you "try" - Very smart to do if you like leeching but doing it legally)

The common sense clause comes into play in a lot of these situations; however there is always grey areas and this is often used as a fallback for admins. I believe the rules need to be updated per incident, to have a clear cut way of ruling and avoid any dispute of said ruling (much like any legal system).
This should the common sense approach to future rulings, and it would get rid of any trivial decisions.

I am just bored with the system as it currently is where there's a multiplier and depending how long the rounds last.
The old xp system would allow for the teams to cooperate and it might've seemed like a giant moshpit where people would fight the other team but there was actual teamwork involved. I miss the shield wall formations, the siege shields defending key positions with melee defending the archers, the cavalry formations where they would flank right and right as the melee started, wreck havoc upon the enemy team.
Everyone needed to stay together in order to maximize the xp and win the round.

most important rule-use your head

cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: SuperNewb on February 17, 2012, 08:37:18 pm