cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Gristle on February 15, 2012, 01:45:28 am

Title: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Gristle on February 15, 2012, 01:45:28 am
I was looking at horse heirlooms and I had a thought. If heirlooming my horse increases its run speed, why not make heirloom boots increase my run speed? As their stats increase, they become easier to run in. This would give foot heirlooms some actual worth.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Tzar on February 15, 2012, 02:06:23 am
Voted bad idea for obvious reasons infact there are so many reasons why this is a bad idea i dont think the website can take the wall of text..  :lol:



visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Arn_Magnusson on February 15, 2012, 02:08:18 am
Really bad idea. I already see agi whores no armors and +3 boots :/
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Bobthehero on February 15, 2012, 02:13:15 am
Give the boots a weight reduction then? So without boots you're still faster, but as you loom them you're faster.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: WaltF4 on February 15, 2012, 04:57:17 am
Voted bad idea for obvious reasons infact there are so many reasons why this is a bad idea i dont think the website can take the wall of text..  :lol:

I am curious about how many unique reasons you could list.



Really bad idea. I already see agi whores no armors and +3 boots :/

We already do see strength stackers with +3 weapons and armor. Most heirlooms bonuses are effectively replacements or augmentations to character skill and attributes. Additionally, characters with lower starting agility/athletics and heavier equipment gain more from additional ranks of athletics than already faster running characters. (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html)



Give the boots a weight reduction then? So without boots you're still faster, but as you loom them you're faster.

The heaviest boots weigh 3.8. Reducing that to 0 weight is still significantly less than what an additional rank of athletics would typically do. That is pretty small given the current bonuses to damage and speed of weapon heirlooms, which are worth ~1 power strike (normally more on the +3 damage direction and a little less on the +2 damage direction) and more than 1 weapon master worth of attack speed.

I can post more exact numbers later if someone actually cares.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Konrax on February 15, 2012, 05:55:00 am
Walt you own
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: San on February 15, 2012, 06:27:00 am
It couldn't hurt.. I would prefer either increasing acceleration or increasing max speed, whichever is considered not as good.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Uumdi on February 15, 2012, 06:35:17 am
Should add nike and puma logos in an heirloom model pack too, would be sick
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: illogical on February 15, 2012, 07:51:15 am
Fantasy RPG style.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Zerran on February 15, 2012, 07:53:08 am
Fantasy RPG style.

Not really. Well made shoes/boots can make it much easier to run and jump than when in poorly made ones.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: dodnet on February 15, 2012, 08:11:28 am
Not really. Well made shoes/boots can make it much easier to run and jump than when in poorly made ones.

Still you dont run faster, you only feel more comfortable while running.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Gristle on February 15, 2012, 02:34:04 pm
Well, consider that we are playing a game. I did not post this in "Realism Discussion" for a reason. I've heard that the foot slot is the last thing most people heirloom, if they bother to heirloom it at all. Legs already take such little damage that it doesn't seem needed. An incentive like this would definitely make them worth it, especially to high strength builds. Everyone's afraid of the running archer being made faster, but this would benefit low agility builds more.

Based on other stat changes to heirlooms, just 1 or maybe 2 Athletics is all that would be needed.

Still you dont run faster, you only feel more comfortable while running.

That completely depends on the shoe that's being modified.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Tzar on February 15, 2012, 02:41:42 pm
I think if we implement this we should also have healing potions

An maybe fireball scrolls which can summon fire upon thy enemy

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Gloves should also have some special magic bonus FX:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Gristle on February 15, 2012, 02:57:59 pm
Hey, Tzar, you actually put some effort into that overreaction! I'm impressed. I think Walt made better, more reasonable points though.

Walt, I would be interested in those numbers if it's not too much trouble.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Okkam on February 15, 2012, 03:03:22 pm
you must be able to loom your legs and receive +3 to kick damage at first loom, 25% chance to knockdown opponent as second lstage, and 25% to knockdown horse at third stage.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on February 15, 2012, 03:30:04 pm
good idea +1
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Leshma on February 15, 2012, 03:36:46 pm
Moving faster because of the boots is bad idea.

But I like what Okkam said. Lordly boots should do 10 times more damage on kicks than regular ones. That way it wouldn't be something overused (since very few people use kick in fights) but it would be so awesome for those few who do.

Or give kicks shield crushing ability. Two kicks and your shield is gone, you turtle nub :P
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Gristle on February 15, 2012, 03:42:40 pm
An increase to kick damage would be good, too. I approve.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: rokema on February 15, 2012, 04:17:21 pm
The idea of heirlooms is retarded as is, now you want to make unskilled nabs who play 24/7 a bigger advantage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-LyFMCIpok
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Thomek on February 15, 2012, 05:55:23 pm
It's an interesting idea that we should look into.

Especially for foot armor, it would be obvious even for the retards in the middle ages that light is good.

Perhaps foot armor weight should have a greater impact on acceleration than it currently has. Then all the min-maxers would start wearing lighter foot armor, which would again make hitting the feet more interesting and add a new layer to melee and ranged fighting.

Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Leshma on February 15, 2012, 05:59:07 pm
Even you, being ninja and wearing Khergit Leather Boots, have more leg armor than you have body armor.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Bobthehero on February 15, 2012, 06:29:31 pm
It's an interesting idea that we should look into.

Especially for foot armor, it would be obvious even for the retards in the middle ages that light is good.

Perhaps foot armor weight should have a greater impact on acceleration than it currently has. Then all the min-maxers would start wearing lighter foot armor, which would again make hitting the feet more interesting and add a new layer to melee and ranged fighting.



The ''retards  :rolleyes:'' beg to differ
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Gristle on February 15, 2012, 07:14:09 pm
I'm surprised at how even the poll is so far. I thought it was a simple idea that could be fun, but I expected a lot more hate.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Dravic on February 15, 2012, 07:46:59 pm
Gristle... This is cRPG.

Your idea is bombarded by one, unless it buffs one's playstyle. That's how it seems to be, at least.

The idea is great, I would SURELY loom/buy loomed boots for the sake of +2 athletics.

15 athletics reachable by going pure agi and loomed boots... YE-HA! That's what we need to buff agi chars.

Oh, and to not make it overpowered, every boots at masterwork give you +2 athletics, but we need some kind of restriction so people don't loom black-armor boots and run around with 10 athletics (if they build correctly).

Weight-based restrictions? Or maybe all boots would be simply split into two groups:

- Light boots - those earn athletics as an additional stat through heirlooming
- Heavy boots - those include middle-weight boots, too and earn some other additional stat through heirlooming instead of athletics
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: MadJackMcMad on February 15, 2012, 08:01:15 pm
This is just ... what ...

I'd like some fire bolts for my crossbow.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: MrShine on February 15, 2012, 08:03:11 pm
This is just ... what ...

I'd like some fire bolts for my crossbow.

I don't think it's an unreasonable suggestion at all.  If you have some dumpy clogs you'll run much slower than if you have some comfy designer running shoes.

Leg armor is currently the lowest on the food chain as far as armor looms go, most people don't even bother.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Tzar on February 15, 2012, 08:10:57 pm
Jesus i swear this forum is gettin even more n more retarded soon it ill be mount & warcraft....

So because you think boots somehow is the last thing people heirloom then you suggest everyone should be forced to have a pair of loomed boots.....

if u ask me all heirlooms stats should be removed an replaced with the new heirloom model pack making looms only cosmetic..
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Gristle on February 15, 2012, 08:16:48 pm
It's no more ridiculous than heirloomed weapons increasing attack speed, or heirloomed horses running faster.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Leshma on February 15, 2012, 08:19:59 pm
Problem with this lays in people who play this mod and limitations devs have put upon them. Problem is that everything ranged already runs away for indefinite period of time or at least until their chaser is dead.

If archers and the likes of them could use proper weapons with proper PS and would play like "normal" people there wouldn't be any problem to implement this.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: MadJackMcMad on February 15, 2012, 08:31:20 pm
I don't think it's an unreasonable suggestion at all.  If you have some dumpy clogs you'll run much slower than if you have some comfy designer running shoes.

Leg armor is currently the lowest on the food chain as far as armor looms go, most people don't even bother.

This is pure fantasy.  This is medieval footwear we are talking about, not fucking air pocketed, micro-fibre Addidas'.  Until the 1800's, shoemakers didn't even differentiate between the left and right foot.

It's no more ridiculous than heirloomed weapons increasing attack speed, or heirloomed horses running faster.

Incorrect.  The current heirloom system does not increase the base stats of the player character, also, each increase is justifiable without delving into the realm of fantasy.  For example, it is easier to swing a balanced weapon than an unbalanced one, thus you can attack quicker with it.  Increased damage relates to the quality of the steel/iron.  A faster horse relates to the quality of the breed, and it's training.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Gristle on February 15, 2012, 08:57:04 pm
But increased run speed cannot in any way relate to a better made boot?

This is a computer game we are talking about. Heirlooms themselves do not make sense if we're talking realism. A sword is not like wine. It does not get better with age.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Thomek on February 15, 2012, 09:28:23 pm
The ''retards  :rolleyes:'' beg to differ
(click to show/hide)

I'm sure the foot armor is of a different thickness than say the breastplate though. My point stands.. Practicality and lightness must have been a quality even then.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Darkkarma on February 15, 2012, 09:44:10 pm
Im sure one of these times Tzar will make a post with reasonable/valid points instead just resorting to the same old hyperbole and add-homonym ridden posts we are so accustomed to seeing from him.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Tzar on February 15, 2012, 11:53:51 pm
Im sure one of these times Tzar will make a post with reasonable/valid points instead just resorting to the same old hyperbole and add-homonym ridden posts we are so accustomed to seeing from him.
Cool story brah
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Heirlooms themselves do not make sense if we're talking realism. A sword is not like wine. It does not get better with age.

Truer neither does boots in fact why not make it so if you have a pair of +3 boots you take dmg while running due to the old age of thoese stinky ass old ragged shoes  :?:
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Siiem on February 16, 2012, 12:10:51 am
NO!
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: TurmoilTom on February 16, 2012, 12:13:00 am
I'm sure one of these times Tzar will make a post with reasonable/valid points instead just resorting to the same old hyperbole and add-homonym ridden posts we are so accustomed to seeing from him.

And there will be much rejoicing.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Tzar on February 16, 2012, 12:36:53 am
Plz explain to me why my post doenst hold a valid point  :?:

This is a medieval combat game not one of 243125442351435 billions random other fantasy games with elves an magic an fairy´s... well we do have fairy´s they are called archers but still...

Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: MadJackMcMad on February 16, 2012, 01:06:17 am
But increased run speed cannot in any way relate to a better made boot?

This is a computer game we are talking about. Heirlooms themselves do not make sense if we're talking realism. A sword is not like wine. It does not get better with age.

Nor do you spontaneously give birth to a clone of yourself every 40 years.  The retirement system in its entirety does not make sense, it was never intended to.  It was built so serve a function and did not have to be justified in a role-playing or 'realistic' capacity.  To use it as an example is ineffective.

I'm sure the foot armor is of a different thickness than say the breastplate though. My point stands.. Practicality and lightness must have been a quality even then.

I should think so.  But a naked man did not adorn a pair of iron greaves and suddenly run faster than he did barefoot, regardless of their quality.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Teeth on February 16, 2012, 01:13:03 am
Im sure one of these times Tzar will make a post with reasonable/valid points instead just resorting to the same old hyperbole and add-homonym ridden posts we are so accustomed to seeing from him.
Keep on dreaming!
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: WaltF4 on February 16, 2012, 01:50:36 am
Stuff

1) Seems fanciful.

Anymore?



Walt, I would be interested in those numbers if it's not too much trouble.

(click to show/hide)




Incorrect.  The current heirloom system does not increase the base stats of the player character, also, each increase is justifiable without delving into the realm of fantasy…

You are correct. The current heirloom system just increases statistics of items in ways that are largely indistinguishable from base stats of the player character or how a more fanciful game might.



...The retirement system in its entirety does not make sense, it was never intended to.  It was built so serve a function and did not have to be justified in a role-playing or 'realistic' capacity.  To use it as an example is ineffective.

Much of the game makes little sense. Do you have a compelling reason why foot armor heirlooms must make more sense than the rest?
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Leshma on February 16, 2012, 04:14:57 am
Walt, major problem with foot looms (that grant speed bonus) is that it will create even more bundle of sticksry than we already have on servers. And I'll be even faster, which I don't really need imho.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Torost on February 16, 2012, 04:36:08 am
Are there any items that get lesser weight after beeing loomed?
Tried to find any, but could not.
Should atleast be some that get a lesser boost in armor/dmg for lesser weight.

Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Adamar on February 16, 2012, 04:53:51 am
I want explosive arrows. :twisted:
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: WaltF4 on February 16, 2012, 04:55:12 am
Walt, major problem with foot looms (that grant speed bonus) is that it will create even more bundle of sticksry than we already have on servers. And I'll be even faster, which I don't really need imho.

I am assuming you are referring to referring to archers running away. Please correct me I am mistaken.



Additionally, characters with lower starting agility/athletics and heavier equipment gain more from additional ranks of athletics than already faster running characters. (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html)

Everyone gaining the same bonus to athletics or agility favors slower character. If anything, this being added would be a buff to low agility/heavy equipment characters and a nerf to high agility/light equipment characters and cavalry.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on February 16, 2012, 05:11:40 am
This would be a great game play mechanic for cavalry players, but only if their horses could use foot armor.

I want my champion courser to wear four rus cavalry boots, all loomed for speed and armor bonus.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 16, 2012, 05:26:04 am
Incorrect.  The current heirloom system does not increase the base stats of the player character, also, each increase is justifiable without delving into the realm of fantasy.  For example, it is easier to swing a balanced weapon than an unbalanced one, thus you can attack quicker with it.  Increased damage relates to the quality of the steel/iron.  A faster horse relates to the quality of the breed, and it's training.
And a proper fitted shoe makes you more agile.
Your argument was terrible.
And I don't really support the idea of +speed boots.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Uumdi on February 16, 2012, 06:03:38 am
I'M WEARING BOOTS OF ESCAPING!!!

I'M WEARING BOOTS OF ESCAPING!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxF0vygnF2Y
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 16, 2012, 07:46:00 am
I'M WEARING BOOTS OF ESCAPING!!!

I'M WEARING BOOTS OF ESCAPING!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxF0vygnF2Y
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Gristle on February 16, 2012, 08:51:36 am
(click to show/hide)

Thanks for all that. Let me make sure I'm understanding it right (just got home and I'm tired). Basically, the heirloom increase to damage is generally less than 1 Power Strike point (not terribly significant), but the speed actually offers more than what an already high WPF would gain from 1 point of Weapon Master. I really don't see how the equivalent of roughly 1 Athletics would be so terrible. I think people are so used to their heirlooms that they don't see how silly they really are. I already own Armor of Superior Deflection and a Sword of Mighty Cleaving, so why not Boots of Speed?
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on February 16, 2012, 01:54:04 pm
No thank you.
Unless I get to heirloom some gloves of strength +3.

Heirloom system is already imbalanced enough without giving stat bonuses to people.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Leshma on February 16, 2012, 03:25:00 pm
I am assuming you are referring to referring to archers running away. Please correct me I am mistaken.

You're not mistaken. And it's not just archers, all ranged is running away until they get into safe heaven. I'd like to see real hybrids once again which would stop that kind of behavior. Once Paul said they might give melee capabilities to archers but that was long time ago.

Another problem is obvious buff to STR chars. They already have more advantages over AGI oriented characters.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Jambi on February 16, 2012, 03:25:40 pm
4 str 4 stam leather belt! huugh huugh!
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Kafein on February 16, 2012, 03:35:21 pm
If this ever gets implemented, the whole human acceleration needs a very long waited nerf. And horses need a maneuver buff.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: WaltF4 on February 16, 2012, 03:53:36 pm
Basically, the heirloom increase to damage is generally less than 1 Power Strike point (not terribly significant), but the speed actually offers more than what an already high WPF would gain from 1 point of Weapon Master.

No. The "differences are less than 1 equivalent bonus rank" part was about the variance between different starting amounts of power strike on a character, but I see how that was unclear rereading what I wrote. +3 damage weapon heirlooms normally add more damage to an attack  than +1 ranks of power strike would.

Here is an example of how to use the equations for damage in case that part was unclear as well: for a 26 base damage weapon, +3 damage from the heirloom bonus, and a character with 9 power strike (this is my current character with his +3 long spear by the way) 

BWD = 26
HBD = 3
PS = 9

We want to solve for BPS to determine how many "bonus ranks" of power strike are effectively added by using the heirloom weapon instead of the normal weapon.

Damage1 = (BWD + HBD) * (PS * 0.08 + 1) * Held Weapon Damage Bonus * WPF Damage Bonus + Strength Bonus Damage
Damage1 = (26 +3) * (9 * 0.08 + 1) * Held Weapon Damage Bonus * WPF Damage Bonus + Strength Bonus Damage
Damage1 = (29) * (1.72) * Held Weapon Damage Bonus * WPF Damage Bonus + Strength Bonus Damage
Damage1 = (49.88) * Held Weapon Damage Bonus * WPF Damage Bonus + Strength Bonus Damage

Damage2 = BWD * ((PS + BPS) * 0.08 + 1) * Held Weapon Damage Bonus * WPF Damage Bonus + Strength Bonus Damage
Damage2 = 26 * ((9 + BPS) * 0.08 + 1) * Held Weapon Damage Bonus * WPF Damage Bonus + Strength Bonus Damage

Set the damage equations equal to one another (this is when the bonus to power ranks would adds the same amount of damage as +3 to weapon damage)
Damage1 = Damage2
(49.88) * Held Weapon Damage Bonus * WPF Damage Bonus + Strength Bonus Damage  = 26 * ((9 + BPS) * 0.08 + 1) * Held Weapon Damage Bonus * WPF Damage Bonus + Strength Bonus Damage

For a fair comparison the Held Weapon Damage Bonus, WPF Damage Bonus, and Strength Bonus Damage are the same for both (this means nothing else about the attack or attacking character change)
49.88 = 26 * ((9 + BPS) * 0.08 + 1)
BPS = 2.48

So, for a character using a 26 base damage weapon with 9 ranks of power strike, having the weapon heirloom add 3 damage is the same as having the weapon add 2.48 ranks of power strike.



For all the Diablo references, my +3 long spear currently gives the bonuses of +2.48 power strike and +2 weapon mastery in terms of time per attack. I am already using a Jagged Long Spear of Readiness.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Vibe on February 16, 2012, 03:54:57 pm
Imo too OP.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: rokema on February 16, 2012, 04:09:12 pm
this is stupid idea, yes. i hope you burn in a pit of cobras
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Jambi on February 16, 2012, 05:02:58 pm
this is stupid idea, yes. i hope you burn in a pit of cobras

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: TurmoilTom on February 16, 2012, 05:05:59 pm
My +3 Cased Greaves are liking the sound of this.

The more I think about it, the more it would make my planned level 34 build more op (If I can ever get there  :mad:).
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Huey Newton on February 16, 2012, 05:20:27 pm
Should add nike and puma logos in an heirloom model pack too, would be sick

Yess then ill be able to lace up my fackin J's bro
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: MadJackMcMad on February 16, 2012, 06:30:02 pm
Much of the game makes little sense. Do you have a compelling reason why foot armor heirlooms must make more sense than the rest?

The Argument For
"Here is an example of a current feature that does not make sense. Because this does not make sense; it justifies the addition of another feature which also does not make sense."

If you were to extrapolate on this pretzel logic; you could justify the myriad of other suggestions in this thread.  For - so long as it does not make sense, anything is game.  For example, gloves which boost power draw are as ludicrous as metal greaves which boost athleticism.  Yet in this logic, their implementation is justified.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 16, 2012, 06:52:41 pm
I dunno about this, this would make people run even faster than they already do... no thanks. Str builds would gain alot from this, they can skip out on some athl and just use loomed boots, crazy damage and yet decent movementspeed.
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Darkkarma on February 16, 2012, 08:32:41 pm
Yess then ill be able to lace up my fackin J's bro

They should replace tunics over mail with these beauties


http://sneakernews.com/2012/01/25/nike-hyper-elite-platinum-basketball-uniforms/ (http://sneakernews.com/2012/01/25/nike-hyper-elite-platinum-basketball-uniforms/)
Title: Re: Idea for Foot Heirlooms
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 16, 2012, 10:59:39 pm
(click to show/hide)
For all the Diablo references, my +3 long spear currently gives the bonuses of +2.48 power strike and +2 weapon mastery in terms of time per attack. I am already using a Jagged Long Spear of Readiness.
Respect just went even higher, Diablo references <3, and correct ones too!