cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Leshma on January 25, 2012, 11:29:32 pm
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I wish our dear devs would be brave enough to start a company and announce a new game which will be funded by donations, similar to C.A.R.S. development model.
Hopefully they have "grown" enough to make their own combat system, more advanced and complex than what we have in Warband.
For engine I would like to see something like this (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php) (video (http://vimeo.com/31560308)). It's not medieval combat game specific but it seems to me it can be used for anything you like, has decent graphics and it's awesome and truly advanced tech overall. Also people who are making it said it's gonna be indie dev friendly which means it will be dirt cheap to licence. From what I've read it has some really advanced features which are related to real life physics. It only needs proper fighting system (developed by equus africanus asinus crew) and a lot of content.
We (community members and already recognized c-rpg moders) can provide that content. We could import or make some new buildings in Google SketchUp (for example) and manually create medieval villages and cities all over the globe. Engine I'm proposing has 1:1 Earth's terrain mapping with exact elevation parameters aka real deal. If one of two people worked on creating of such vast amount of content it would take ages but if, let's say, 100 of us responsible people unite, that task can be done pretty quickly.
Imagine playing strategus in such engine, in one persistent, realistic world :D
Gods of c-rpg, what do you say?
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YES
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Are you a bigamist, Allers? From what I heard, you're already married to Miley...
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I WUZ SAYING YES TO THE IDEA
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Btw. if someone thinks that 57.5 million square miles of land is a bit too much of exploarable terrain we can always put invisible barriers to make it a lot smaller. But in that case we won't have realistic terrain, only a fraction of it, let's say half of NY or London territory or some woods in the Scandinavia lols
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The landscape in that video would look horrible on ground level. Rendering good landscape is one thing, sadly, there is a whole lot more to it than that. I doubt this engine would suffice.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izyZ1kKQzbE
Looks better than Warband to me :wink:
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My pc + this game = visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Good idea for most people though.
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The main objective - if it was - would be to acquire the rights/licenses to an engine that can handle a lot of players simultaneously, not whatever engine can make a pretty game.
Fix an engine that can handle such, incorporate MNB melee, add mass persistent multiplayer world (ala Strat) and sold.
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Unity 3d?
Bsg online handles a decent amount of players at the same time...
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Hopefully they have "grown" enough to make their own combat system, more advanced and complex than what we have in Warband.
This is much much much much much much more complicated than modding an existing one. If this had the same working speed as cRPG, you wouldn't get a playable game after a year of development (not to be harsh with the dev team, fact is, a projects like this would require an awful lot of work afaik).
Furthermore, getting 10 people to work more or less together is already difficult. Getting 100 people (even without rogues, yet with 100 people the probability of someone with bad intentions is not negligible) to work remotely together is extremely difficult. Even for something as "simple" as creating buildings, you still have to standardize atleast size, quality, different styles, complexity. And the actual placement of those models on the map will be even more complicated, if you want to have cities matching in size with real ones (on a determined point in time ofc.), and accurate distances between them, as well as balancing the density between regions that will get a lot of work done and regions that won't etc.
I'm sorry if I'm curbing your enthusiasm, but atm this seems totally impossible.
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^ All of it' true... making a game from almost sratch is pretty difficult and time consuming, especially if it needs to be with all new animations system and for multi... Modders of Magna Mundi from EU3 still make their game, but it's totally different franchise
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The main objective - if it was - would be to acquire the rights/licenses to an engine that can handle a lot of players simultaneously, not whatever engine can make a pretty game.
Fix an engine that can handle such, incorporate MNB melee, add mass persistent multiplayer world (ala Strat) and sold.
Unity 3d?
Bsg online handles a decent amount of players at the same time...
We already have an engine that can handle a lot of players simultaneously. Comparing it to a MMO engine is a big mistake, it should be compared to FPS engines, and how many of those can handle 100+ players?
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We already have an engine that can handle a lot of players simultaneously. Comparing it to a MMO engine is a big mistake, it should be compared to FPS engines, and how many of those can handle 100+ players?
Yup.
The only engine (I think) that probably could be used in mass scale is Frostbite 2.0 from DICE, however whether the melee system would work in that, who knows, and even so I don't think it would be able to push more than 150 vs 150, maybe 200 vs 200 (can anyone remember how many players the hacked servers got up to?), those numbers wouldn't be bad as a start though.
Now onwards to license Frostbite :)
Otherwise what engines are there, UDK, Cry Engine, Source :P, C4 and as mentioned above Unity. Not all of those would be up for the task, guaranteed.
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The engine I've mention will be available as demo very soon and it will have some basic controls. First I'll try to put as many buildings as I can (I'll try to import some towers I've found on internet). After that I'll see if it that build has multiplayer capabilities and see if I anyone is interested in trying out multi. Hopefully it will be possible. If it can support 20 buildings and a lot of vehicles riding not far from each other I think it's capable of what we need.
UDK is shit for massive battles.
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We already have an engine that can handle a lot of players simultaneously. Comparing it to a MMO engine is a big mistake, it should be compared to FPS engines, and how many of those can handle 100+ players?
I know very little of gaming engines, having just recently learned what it actually is.
However, I have heard a lot of very good things about unity and hears whispers of its utilities even outside gaming, so I guessed why not?! :D
In truth we all know that anything but a mod would be extremely hard. But it is always fun to speculate.
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If this was done I think no one would buy m&b2 :D. Beat that Tale Worlds! But seriously, a huge task..
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Would sufficient funding make this project possible? I am sure a considerable amount could be invested, if the devs would consider making this project their full time job, whilst having a good business model.
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Along with TW's foundations, c-rpg devs have a lot of help from the OSP modders of Warband. I don't think you realise quite what a step up in workload it would be for the same people to release their own full game.
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I think so too.
The only thing they need is a pretty salesperson, born to find investors!
Who knows, perhaps there are even investors playing cRPG right now?
What is for sure is that a lot less talented people have made games that are not bad before them..
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u also get what you payed for.....
this mod is only run by donations and website advertising i doubt they could afford a full scale game.
i cant wait to see your demo of this engine though im keeping and open mine just stating the obvious i suppose lol
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Yup.
The only engine (I think) that probably could be used in mass scale is Frostbite 2.0 from DICE, however whether the melee system would work in that, who knows, and even so I don't think it would be able to push more than 150 vs 150, maybe 200 vs 200 (can anyone remember how many players the hacked servers got up to?), those numbers wouldn't be bad as a start though.
Now onwards to license Frostbite :)
Otherwise what engines are there, UDK, Cry Engine, Source :P, C4 and as mentioned above Unity. Not all of those would be up for the task, guaranteed.
Frostbite 2 cant handle an hundred of player. It will if all player are on lan with an high end comp.
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all i can say is that, even if the dev team were to start their own game, securing investment would be a very hard done by task. Yes the dev team have made a great mod for c-rpg, but the next level is so much harder. And to get any form of investment they would need proof they could do it.
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all i can say is that, even if the dev team were to start their own game, securing investment would be a very hard done by task. Yes the dev team have made a great mod for c-rpg, but the next level is so much harder. And to get any form of investment they would need proof they could do it.
what kind of money are we talking to make a game possible?
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Wow, that's a lot you're asking.
Making a new game is completely different than modding one.
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Making an entire game from scratch with a team of part timers coordinating online takes a very very long time.
Example: 0 A.D has been in development since late 2000 (the year not the decade), and they are still only at the alpha stage.
http://wildfiregames.com/0ad/
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Me and a friend have been thinking of this for a while and I would do everything I could to help with this project.
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Someone think that tweaking ready for use code and making game from a scratch is comparable task? Dreamers...
Someone think that TW melee system was not protected properly?
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The gameplay M&B uses is probably copyrighted.
On the other hand it would be interesting to see if any potential investors are already playing cRPG.
A bigger community is not always better.
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The gameplay M&B uses is probably copyrighted.
No it's not.
And it was made by two people from what I know, Armağan Yavuz and his wife.
Overgrowth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLDs_cYT5U0&feature=related), a fighting game with nice physics, is a project of company called Wolfire games which constist of five people. I think that only one or two work on game engine...
My point is, it's not that hard to create a combat system similar to what we have in M&B if you know what you're doing. And I think that cmpx (alone) could make it if he wanted to, had time, was payed enough to do it etc.
Also, forget about high profile game engines like CE3, UE3, Frostbite 2.5. Those cost to much to licence. Only if c-rpg previously made as mod for said games, win a reward for the best mod and they obtain engine licence as reward.
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Furthermore, getting 10 people to work more or less together is already difficult. Getting 100 people (even without rogues, yet with 100 people the probability of someone with bad intentions is not negligible) to work remotely together is extremely difficult. Even for something as "simple" as creating buildings, you still have to standardize atleast size, quality, different styles, complexity. And the actual placement of those models on the map will be even more complicated, if you want to have cities matching in size with real ones (on a determined point in time ofc.), and accurate distances between them, as well as balancing the density between regions that will get a lot of work done and regions that won't etc.
Of course, it would be hard but not impossible. There should be some serious selection and I'm pretty sure we have enough decent people who are willing to spend some time placing pre-made models on the ground. Buildings would be standardized, of course. Made by 5-10 people max (who know how to work). A lot of people place Google SketchUp models on Google Earth everyday...
And about size of such cities, they can be real life size but for a start it would be best to make them just a bit better than this shit we already have in Warband. Just take a look at Warbands terrain and buildings. It's so simple, crappy terrain textures, a stone and grass here and there. A lot of useless barrels, carts in towns. And most buildings are crappy models and you can't enter them. It's nothing to brag about, making such map isn't really hard thing to do, especially if you have good editor.
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I like Overgrowth, highly polished indie game with lots of attention to detail. But they are working on it since end of 2008! And they already have experience how to build such an engine (previous game was Lugaru (http://www.wolfire.com/lugaru)). As much as i would like to see/be part of such a project i think you are underestimating the effort it would take.
EDIT: and i think it is just one guy doing the engine, at least it sounds like that when you follow his weekly youtube videos. And there is another one doing art and level stuff.
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- Add more Sarranid stuff
- PR campaign in Dubai
- Get oil sheikhs hooked
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- Profit!
Besides the obvious financial problem and necessary restructuring of the team as well as adding people to fill required positions that come with being an actual company,
I am not sure everyone would want to give up the whole hobby/cba/relaxed feeling.
No question, as much as the rest of you i would like to see that game!
I can not exactly judge the amount of money required to actually keep a full time dev team from starvation for the development time of a project like this.
Furthermore i myself can't just like that start doing professional stuff, everything i did so far is complete trial&error.
Can't speak for the others as we for sure have a lot of very capable people in the current team.
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Big brother of my good friend was lead designer of a certain mmo.. They got most of their funding from some arab prince thing.
I have no idea how etc, but that's how they got it going.
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Our player base seems way to small to be able to really fund it. Not to mention we scare people away and so we are hardly likely to see a big influx of new peeps anytime soon.
Some one crunch the REAL math. If everyone put in 15 euros what would that get the dev team?
PS next time I win lotto I'll keep you guys in mind.
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The best idea for cRPG would be going to a bigger gaming company and offering them the idea of a new stand alone game. Im sure some would be interested for the amount of people who play the mod (or have done). The dev team would possibly work along side i dunno.... . But before doing that i would see fit the copyright of the idea before its done (if someone hasnt already).
And to what pretty much what everyone else is saying, for an investment to have the game up and running within a few years would require a full time team working on cresting making it pretty much impossible for an investment from the c-rpg community. An investment from the c-rpg community would probably amke it +5 years minimum. People need a reality check to when they think a game can spring out of nothing.
The only example that i can think of would be NTW3 for Napoleon total war. Development started in 2005/06 with NTWon rome total war. 5 years down the line they have only just release NTW3 as a full mod for Napoleon total war. They have worked closely with creative assembly in the past in the first creation of their mod and i have heard rumours that it is now becoming a stand alone game. This will take a few further years,
Pls strap your heads on brfore commenting
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I like Overgrowth, highly polished indie game with lots of attention to detail. But they are working on it since end of 2008! And they already have experience how to build such an engine (previous game was Lugaru (http://www.wolfire.com/lugaru)). As much as i would like to see/be part of such a project i think you are underestimating the effort it would take.
EDIT: and i think it is just one guy doing the engine, at least it sounds like that when you follow his weekly youtube videos. And there is another one doing art and level stuff.
Yeah, Overgrowth is the shit, I bought it immediatly. :P
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The best idea for cRPG would be going to a bigger gaming company and offering them the idea of a new stand alone game. Im sure some would be interested for the amount of people who play the mod (or have done). The dev team would possibly work along side i dunno.... . But before doing that i would see fit the copyright of the idea before its done (if someone hasnt already).
And to what pretty much what everyone else is saying, for an investment to have the game up and running within a few years would require a full time team working on cresting making it pretty much impossible for an investment from the c-rpg community. An investment from the c-rpg community would probably amke it +5 years minimum. People need a reality check to when they think a game can spring out of nothing.
The only example that i can think of would be NTW3 for Napoleon total war. Development started in 2005/06 with NTWon rome total war. 5 years down the line they have only just release NTW3 as a full mod for Napoleon total war. They have worked closely with creative assembly in the past in the first creation of their mod and i have heard rumours that it is now becoming a stand alone game. This will take a few further years,
Pls strap your heads on brfore commenting
that wouldn't work because the sales pitch would be "hey, you know that game mount and blade? no? oh it's this really niche game made in a turkish garage, well anyway we took it and made it even spergier and have an even smaller playbase, can you give us a couple million dollars to make it a standalone game? no? well why not?"
a standalone CRPG wouldn't make money, and if it did it wouldn't be enough to be able to justify (from an investors pov) investing a couple million bucks. you'd have to buy offices, computers, pay relocation costs, hire more staff, etc. and there's no guarantee the result would be worth playing anyway. look at darkfall as an example - aventurine is an established company with a "real" business and offices and staff and they still started running out of money and released a broken piece of shit after way too long.
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Payed adminship? I can live with that.
I have no doubt that the concept of cRPG could be profitable, as an indie game, developed like it is now, over the internet with as few costs as possible. But, I kind of doubt the will or intention to take it That far. It's a huge commitment, moneywise and timewise.
But it's an interesting thought.
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take my money !!
but seriously i prefer this engine -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f3HDsgLV68 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f3HDsgLV68)
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I don't doubt the ability of the devs in making a fresh game, but I do think if they did do a commercial game, cRPG would die.
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I am willing to pretend that I am an oil sheikh if the future game will not have a ranged option.
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I am willing to pretend that I am an oil sheikh if the future game will not have a ranged option.
pst... you're in the wrong clan if you hate ranged that much! (unless you joined to avoid fighting against them ;) )
On topic, yes it would be awesome if the cRPG concept/similar gameplay was pushed out as a full game instead of a mod, and yes I have (relatively :twisted:) strong faith that the dev team would do a great job.
But it would also be awesome if Rooney Mara crashed through the wall of my house and offered me a $5 million annual salary to be her exclusive love slave.
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well..
This is discussion is relatively hypotethical as we have no idea if chadzboys have any ambitions in this direction whatsoever.. Keep that in mind.
On another note, I believe M&B was the first, or at least one of the first games that started taking money for beta versions. Same method that made Minecraft a millions of dollar business. (Perhaps the minecraft success took place in a better way, in a different social media enviroment and had more novelty value)
IDK, but I think the rageball we have here is pretty damn unique and cool, and could be used as a demonstration of something else. (Just imagine massive multiplayer american football or soccer) Rageball as it is, is not sellable because its prerequisite is massive amount of super steep learning curve and cRPG play..
I think the cRPG team could capitalize on their strengths if they had the right mindset. But perhaps they cba and that's fine :) It is a bit weird though cause I have the impression they have mad coding skills, great game ideas, do what they like, love what they do etc. No reason to do anything else in life if you are good at what you love to do is it? :wink:
To be a bit critical of them, I think they may lack a bit of leadership, vision and direction.. Perhaps chadzius hate bawses and don't want to be one?
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The minecraft bloom was mainly (as in 90%) due to the embrace that the 4chan community took on it since day 1. We're talking about huge numbers here.
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pst... you're in the wrong clan if you hate ranged that much! (unless you joined to avoid fighting against them ;) )
To be honest the ranged are mostly NA guys (a lot of them went cav now though). EU is mostly melee.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izyZ1kKQzbE
Looks better than Warband to me :wink:
In that case, get a proper pc to run Warband on full graphics. That looks shit compared to warband. Running through an environment demands a completely different level of detail compared to flying over or riding through it.
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Haha yeah that does look bad compared to warband actually.
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That's because, apart from very simple trees there is no foliage. Also in current state of the engine there is no bloom, blur and other eye candy shaders we have in Warband.
Running through an environment demands a completely different level of detail compared to flying over or riding through it.
This isn't typical engine used for airplane simulators.
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http://www.kickstarter.com/
Could be a way to finance an early start.
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well too be honest would we REALLY want crpg to have a dramatically boosted player base?i kinda like the fact i know the majority of players a fight against and see the same faces and rivalry's
to have that gone to the point that ever time i join a server i see completely unknown people to me doesnt feel like crpg
maybe this slow paced development is what crpg needs to stay "the same"
(personally i thought it was being made faster nowadays since the launcher but apparently im one of the few who does think that)