cRPG
Off Topic => Spam => Topic started by: TheSpartacus on January 16, 2012, 02:36:54 am
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Hello,
I was kicked from NA_crpg1 battle server by Canary_of_Chaos for starting a kick-poll for a player(Mongoliaserfz) who was hiding in a stack of hay at the end of a round. He was the last person remaining on the enemy team and kept shooting a crossbow from a stack of hay up on the second floor of a building(not 100% sure, but this may have been an unreachable location as well).
Two problems i have with Canary:
1. Doing nothing about a guy delaying the game.
2. Kicking me for starting a kick poll without a warning.
According to the server rules posted here http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2606.0.html is it not Ok to hide in hay as the last man standing "NOT OK: hiding when last man standing (i.e. delaying)"
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BAN CANARY!
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Well I have a few issues with your issue. I was online at the time.
1: A player who is shooting at people is not hiding. If he is reloading inside a haystack or behind a tree it makes little difference. Shooting a xbow has a tendency to give away your position. So we disagree on your interpretation of delaying the game. This is in fact the primary issue. Too many players who feel that they can better interpret the rules of the server than the administrators that are online.
2: Seeing as you found the server rules in order to quote them, I think your 2nd complaint can be dismissed as well. Canary didn't need to give a warning for poll abuse when it states clearly in the rules that you should have stated the reason for the poll PRIOR to starting it.
No random kick/ban polls. Always specify reason before starting a poll
This also applies:
NOT OK: poll-kicking someone because you don't like his playstyle
You didn't like the playstyle, you disagreed with the admins online, and then you started a poll as a result without following the server rules for creating a poll in the first place.
If you want to take the time to be a rules lawyer and second guess the admins online, make certain you are following them.
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I believe Canary is filling Dextraa's role while he is away so this probably isn't the correct place to write your complaint.
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Tydeus both Canary and Dexxtaa are admin. :wink:
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I was wondering how long it would take for me to get one of these threads.
I was kicked from NA_crpg1 battle server by Canary_of_Chaos for starting a kick-poll for a player(Mongoliaserfz) who was hiding in a stack of hay at the end of a round. He was the last person remaining on the enemy team and kept shooting a crossbow from a stack of hay up on the second floor of a building(not 100% sure, but this may have been an unreachable location as well).
...
According to the server rules posted here http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2606.0.html is it not Ok to hide in hay as the last man standing "NOT OK: hiding when last man standing (i.e. delaying)"
This is correct, if the last person alive is hiding in a spot where he's entirely obscured from view (to a degree) it's against the rules. I'm not entirely certain, but I think that his enemies knew where he was and were attempting to deal with him, in which case being in a spot where you're effectively invisible isn't exactly delaying, unless as you said it was an unreachable spot. I'm not sure it was.
Anyway, what happened, however, was that you started a poll and someone complained that you were vote-kicking them for no reason. As you probably know from having read the server rules yourself and as other folks here have said, poll abuse is also against the rules, and since no one complained about someone hiding in the hay, only about you having put up a poll for no supposed reason, the squeaky wheel got the grease, so to speak. I wasn't spectating the person you were vote-kicking, but I could see that you had in fact put up a poll. I took action accordingly.
Possibly a bad judgment call, assuming the situation was one in which the guy you put a poll against was really in the wrong, but honestly? Talk to admins! Use 'i' chat, it's there for a reason. I'm skeptical of your having a problem with my "doing nothing about a guy delaying the game" when no one ever alerted me to the fact that someone was supposedly misbehaving.
Anyway, it was just a kick. The worst that happened is that you lost precious seconds of playing time and your multiplier.
Congratulations on starting my admin feedback thread, though, because starting off on the footing of complaint always makes for a good impression.
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Welcome to the club Canary! :lol:
Tried to stay in the dark myself but if you do your job, you will get complaint...
(I'm still somewhat of a adminja, still don't have the admin tag on the forum 8-) )
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I'm still in the clear - Yes!
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Complaint:
Someone was teamwounding in spawn and canary used admin chat to tell people to stop swinging in spawn. I then proceeded to make a joke about how I cant read bright pink chat(Which I do, I usually gotta hit L to see it unless its night on the map or theres a dark enough texture to background it against), and said something along the lines of "I cant read bright pink chat, I think it said swing in spawn."
A bad joke, I know, but theres tons of that anyways. I was prompty muted by canary, in which I didnt really care except when the mute lasted for roughly an hour, give or take a few minutes. When I was finally unmuted 3-4 maps later, after asking in adminchat if I was to ever be unmuted, I made a comment about how enjoyable long mutes for a silly comment is fun, which I was then told by canary to "go cry about it."
I normally wouldnt care too much, but I think chatting is at some point, especially when your dead, a way to enjoy the game some more by saying /boasting/complaining/gibberish crap in chat with the community. It just seems bad when an admin responds that way for, in my eyes, a bit excesive punishment for something that wasnt a big deal in the first place. I'd almost go as far as to say this was personal but I wouldnt have dirt to back that up with anyways.
All in all, I just felt like I was unjustly punished and given a big "F U" when saying something about it, and was told to go cry about it, so I figured why not. Nothing will probably come of this(Me assuming), cause I have yet to seen any punishment given to an admin that just didnt out-right screw the servers population over. Almost brings back to mind the days of Goretooth's rampages when he was drinking, which canary stated he was plastered, and would perma ban people for the silliest things.
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If you'd asked to be unmuted earlier, it probably would've happened. I think a lot of people forget about mutes as all the player has to do to clear it is reconnect if they forget about it.
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Complaint:
I was digging in a mine today and I brought a canary and it fucking died
WHY GOD
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Yep advice for all muted player, we admin usually forget about it... happened to me too.
So if you find that you mute as been long enough, you can ask nicely in I chat to get it removed.
:)
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Why isn't Chaos mass banned yet??
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We were, old news. Moving along.
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Why isn't Chaos mass banned yet??
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
dynamike likes this
On topic: I think animating others to teamhitting is not a smart decision in itself and generally makes the admins' lives harder. Therefore a mute is warranted imo.
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Complaint:
Someone was teamwounding in spawn and canary used admin chat to tell people to stop swinging in spawn. I then proceeded to make a joke about how I cant read bright pink chat(Which I do, I usually gotta hit L to see it unless its night on the map or theres a dark enough texture to background it against), and said something along the lines of "I cant read bright pink chat, I think it said swing in spawn."
A bad joke, I know, but theres tons of that anyways. I was prompty muted by canary, in which I didnt really care except when the mute lasted for roughly an hour, give or take a few minutes. When I was finally unmuted 3-4 maps later, after asking in adminchat if I was to ever be unmuted, I made a comment about how enjoyable long mutes for a silly comment is fun, which I was then told by canary to "go cry about it."
00:31:31 - [ADMIN][Canary_of_Chaos] PLEASE do not swing in spawn.
00:31:41 - [Lord_Lurk] I cant read pink text
00:31:46 - [Lord_Lurk] to me that said swing in spawn
00:31:47 - [Lord_Lurk] k
00:31:57 - Canary_of_Chaos muted player Lord_Lurk.
01:28:27 - [PLAYER2ADMIN][Lord_Lurk] so am I ever going to get unmuted?
01:28:41 - Canary_of_Chaos unmuted player Lord_Lurk.
01:28:45 - [Lord_Lurk] mm
01:28:49 - [Lord_Lurk] hour long mute
01:28:51 - [Lord_Lurk] enjoyable
01:28:57 - [Canary_of_Chaos] cry about it
By gum, he's telling the truth!
Like people said, I'd been drinking. I guess this is a potent reminder not to drink-and-punish, as bad things can happen. Usually I mean to unmute people as soon as a map switch occurs, but I must have forgotten about you, in which case you having reminded me was a good thing. You did deserve being muted, but certainly not for that long.
I guess I meant to say what I did after unmuting you in jest, but I didn't realize that you wouldn't be in on the joke. "cry about it" is a bit of sarcasm that floats around the teamspeak I frequent, I must have assumed you'd have heard that before and wouldn't take too serious of offense to it. I mean, you yourself were flaunting your own skill in sarcasm, which was why you were muted in the first place.
I am sorry for making you feel bad, I really don't mean to be a rude person.
Complaint:
I was digging in a mine today and I brought a canary and it fucking died
WHY GOD
Oh jeeze Uumdi geT OUT OF THERE!
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Complaint:
I was digging in a mine today and I brought a canary and it fucking died
WHY GOD
Shit son, mine did too when I went to the lumberyard!
WHY ARE CANARIES SO FRAGILE
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Only one clan has the distinction of being mass banned. :smug:
Canary is good folk though.
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Only one clan has the distinction of being mass banned. :smug:
Canary is good folk though.
You're forgetting RS's ninja turtle holocaust! Okay, maybe it wasn't a literal mass-ban, but it was pert-near everybody at the time. (myself being gone due to computer issues, thank goodness)
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You're forgetting RS's ninja turtle holocaust! Okay, maybe it wasn't a literal mass-ban, but it was pert-near everybody at the time. (myself being gone due to computer issues, thank goodness)
RIP ninja turtles. RIP.
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You're forgetting RS's ninja turtle holocaust! Okay, maybe it wasn't a literal mass-ban, but it was pert-near everybody at the time. (myself being gone due to computer issues, thank goodness)
It was a mass ban on almost everyone, yeah. I think I was the only one that didn't get banned since I was in EU at that point.
That was awful. Having to talk to Garguro the Mad, he started off cool, but subsequently started stressing himself out.
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This immature child has banned me before (a perma-ban, even!) for civilly disagreeing with him and bruising his delicate little ego.
Just now he's muted me again for the same reason, and continues to threaten me with bans for no reason in particular. I can't even respond, thanks to the mute.
Someone really needs to remove this petty idiot from a position of authority.
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You didn't seem to have any trouble calling me a bundle of sticks in i-chat.
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Sorry - I would've thought of something a little more verbose, except that I was too busy trying not to be branded as a 'leecher.'
Also, I've just been banned for idling in spectator mode. This is absolutely ridiculous.
Edit: It's a global ban, folks! And probably permanent, too!
I even went so far as to say 'please' before resorting to the sort of crude exhortations mentioned above.
I can't begin to imagine the response if I'd actually broken a rule.
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You were banned for idling behind a tree you were hiding behind. You should be surprised to know that it is not a permban, considering your ban history.
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Oh, cool. It's nice to know that all it takes to get perma-banned is for some asshole admin to notice you standing near a tree for a few seconds.
(^ OBVIOUS SARCASM)
My "ban history" is nothing but a farcical result of the same sort of tragic misunderstandings as this, and should not be given credence under any circumstances.
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-snip-
I've just been banned for idling in spectator mode.
-snip-
You were banned for idling behind a tree you were hiding behind.
Oh, cool. It's nice to know that all it takes to get perma-banned is for some asshole admin to notice you standing near a tree for a few seconds.
So first you were "banned while in spec". He tells you that you were banned for hiding behind a three. Then you start talking about how you can't hide behind a three without being banned. I'm confused. Did you forget where you were when you got banned or did you not known where you were?
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It was more than "a few seconds". Long enough for the rest of your team to die, anyway. And for our teammates to eventually find you and kill you with no resistance. But it was probably just some kind of misunderstanding like the 6 hour ban Voso gave you in siege today.
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Clearly he had more than 2 ears to scratch
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Something important IRL suddenly pulled me away and I was forced to go afk. I (apparently mistakenly) thought that I was dead & spectating when I left, so I didn't bother hurrying back.
It should be pretty obvious if someone is not moving or responding to pinktext that they're afk. This doesn't necessarily mean that they're trying to leech or exploit the system - just that there was something else that demanded their attention. In which case, clearly a simple kick or QML would be sufficient to end the round and get everyone else back into the action.
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I doubt people are trying to grief you with admin or anything, you just, from what I recall, have a horribly long ban history, and seem to get off on personally attacking admins when they do things as simple as a mute, or a very brief ban.
So when you admittedly break rules on the server, you are gonna get punished. Probably harsher then some brand new player would. My advice is to stop blaming the admins who have a say in whether or not you eventually get permabanned (I think you were already essay banned?) and making them think you are even worse of a player who "doesn't get it" then you may already be.
Be a normal, respectful player, follow the basic rules, and no admins will ever need to intervene against you. Good day sir
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I don't know if this is you canary but while on siege at 7:30 P.M. CST I was upgrading my character because I had been playing for about an hour and was at level 6 and I decided to take the time to upgrade my stats (we were attacking and I wasn't killing people so I thought it was the perfect time) I am doing a polearm and put three skills into WM and I was putting the WP points into polearm (it was around 130 so it takes time barely four minutes). This is what happens I am teamwounded by one person I say my old friend and report them for TW they call me leecher I tell them that I was upgrading my character a person by the name Canarus (this is why I think it was you canary) comes up kicks me and reports me countless times for leeching I say dude I can't even improve my character without people flipping shit. I am then kicked from the server, pardon my rage here but thats bullshit I can't even stand still for four minutes and improve my guy without being labeled as a leecher. Please Canary or who ever it was ask what I am doing then do whatever just don't assume based on a third party without knowing all of the details.
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Today? Like 30 minutes ago? I haven't been on siege all week. I also don't have an alt named "Canarus".
What is your character name? What day did this happen on? You were on NA_2 siege? By "comes up kicks me" I suppose you mean with his foot, not with admin powers.
If you want, you can make a ban request (on the appropriate board) and we can look through the logs for what happened and possibly take care of the guy who did it.
I'm not sure if you had the game minimized or were putting stats in with the 'C' function, but if you do ever minimize the game, especially on siege, I recommend you go spectator, it might help avoid situations like this.
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"I am suspicious. It feels as though you're making these accusations as part of a joke. I don't think that you should be so deliberately defamatory like this while taking these allegations so lightly. " -Canary, Unban Huey Thread
Its easier to brand me a liar than to talk with your other chaos admins and find out who did that, I highly doubt the one who did will fess up anyhow but even if they did I'm sure it'd be just a verbal warning given (while other non admins get banned for the same reason). I didn't take a screenshot because I sincerely believed what happened wouldn't ever come up, but I will from now on.
And I don't think you should be an admin if you can't be impartial.
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You have no idea who the player was, so why would there be any faith that you got the clan right either? You said you thought it was Ganner, another player said no it was Canary, someone else said the name Canarus, which isn't a Canary alt.
It doesn't take a lack of impartiality to believe you were simply saying anything you could in order to deflect the subject in that thread away from the topic at hand, which was Huey's unban.
Maybe you did see a Chaos admin, maybe you just saw a Chaos player, or maybe you even just saw someone with the banner Chaos uses doing it. Who knows? Maybe none of the above?
Next time have your story straight and people won't be inclined to say that you are making part or all of it up, especially when it is part of your effort to defend someone else's rule breaking.
That's my impartial take on it.
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I like turtles.
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You have no idea who the player was, so why would there be any faith that you got the clan right either? You said you thought it was Ganner, another player said no it was Canary, someone else said the name Canarus, which isn't a Canary alt.
It doesn't take a lack of impartiality to believe you were simply saying anything you could in order to deflect the subject in that thread away from the topic at hand, which was Huey's unban.
Maybe you did see a Chaos admin, maybe you just saw a Chaos player, or maybe you even just saw someone with the banner Chaos uses doing it. Who knows? Maybe none of the above?
Next time have your story straight and people won't be inclined to say that you are making part or all of it up, especially when it is part of your effort to defend someone else's rule breaking.
That's my impartial take on it.
Nah, all I have to do now is be that kind of player with his pinky over the print screen button to mass report every single bit of hypocrisy and rule breaking I see. I brought up my point in a very civil way and was completely honest with what I knew and didn't know, so I thought that because I abide by the rules and try to not make an ass of myself all the time, people might actually look into it. I get how this works now and what kind of people I am dealing with.
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I like that you followed the path of everyone else who didn't get the answer they wanted and accuse every Admin who comments of being biased. I don't belong to a clan, never have, and I don't hang out with the other Admins other than to chat about issues occuring on the servers.
If you think there is bias, go look at every other thread where a player comes in with unsupported accusations. They are locked. We don't go warn the player that was accused or call up their clan for a group warning, or announce that it is against the rules in pink chat the next time we join the server. Your accusation is being treated no differently than any other unsupported claim, and the fact that it was off-topic in an unban thread made it even less credible, even if it was civil; it was still unsubstantiated libel.
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I didn't call you a liar, directly, I called maeday a liar when she tried to call me out for something that I know was fabricated in order to incriminate me.
When you said that Huey should be unbanned because of admin inconsistency, I tried to point out that I've always held the same belief when it comes to teamkilling, one which coincides with the rules: Intentional teamkilling during a round is NOT okay.
You tried to get Huey off on a technicality based on the way that one admin you couldn't even name supposedly interpreted the rules. Well, admins, especially we NA peasant mud-farming admins, do not make the rules. That particular rule could not be more clear, and if anyone is taking it to mean something else (likely under the "common sense" golden rule), it's their discretion, but not one that I believe falls in line with the idea behind the rules. I don't have faith in anyone's administration if they're behaving in that kind of way, not even people I like, so I am absolutely for screenshots if it means you won't start implicating people who are innocent because you can't remember the exact circumstances anymore.
I'm not seeing your reasoning behind calling me impartial, unless you mean that I'm favoring what I know to be true about myself, and that my knowledge of it supersedes what someone else made up about what I've done. maeday did lie, and that's not okay with me.
And I said that I was suspicious, not that I was disregarding everything you said. I was trying to look into it, to see which "one of the Chaos admins" would've said something like that, but unfortunately most of them aren't online during the same hours as I am these days. I shouldn't have suspected a joke, I guess, but you know how Huey threads tend to go.
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Battle was down, and it was an average day on siege, no admins or anything.
Canary then just joins and bans Dread and mertin for team wounding, no warning or anything.
Then doesn't reply when some object and suggest a warning would've been better.
Sure it was only an hour ban, but a a warning or kick would have worked.
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Battle was down, and it was an average day on siege, no admins or anything.
Canary then just joins and bans Dread and mertin for team wounding, no warning or anything.
Then doesn't reply when some object and suggest a warning would've been better.
Sure it was only an hour ban, but a a warning or kick would have worked.
They had been griefing and causing drama for awhile at that point so I took it upon myself to get Canary. He witnessed it and dealt with it as necessary.
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They had been griefing and causing drama for awhile at that point so I took it upon myself to get Canary. He witnessed it and dealt with it as necessary.
Certainly the right thing to do. Siege is never short on drama, it's like a high school
I just feel a ban, no matter how short, shouldn't have been the first thing to come.
Maybe an answer when asked "Why not a warning?" would not spike my suspicions and lower my opinion of Canary.
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all my player-admin interactions with canary have been positive. Very fast responses to admin chat requests. People who aren't explicitly breaking rules get told in pink chat "you are bordering on breaking a rule, watch it" and only kicked if they keep it up. Sometimes the pink chat is sassy, but I do not find it hard to imagine the admin message sent to canary was less rude than the allchat things going on at any given time.
A++ responsive judicious admin would send i chat message again
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all my player-admin interactions with canary have been positive. Very fast responses to admin chat requests. People who aren't explicitly breaking rules get told in pink chat "you are bordering on breaking a rule, watch it" and only kicked if they keep it up. Sometimes the pink chat is sassy, but I do not find it hard to imagine the admin message sent to canary was less rude than the allchat things going on at any given time.
A++ responsive judicious admin would send i chat message again
+1 would sex again
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Maybe an answer when asked "Why not a warning?" would not spike my suspicions and lower my opinion of Canary.
I happened to be in spectator at the time, so the only way I could've answered would have been in pinktext, which, contrary to my sometimes frivolous use of it, I don't like to use lightly. I was feeling rather taciturn at the time.
In situations like people fighting at spawn, what I try to have happen is the parties involved removed as soon as possible, and preferably before the fighting stops, that is, before someone gets TKed dead from it. One hour is the default setting for bans. I could have kicked them, and I could have banned them for a shorter period, it is true, but I feel that one hour is short enough not to cause too much of a fuss.
And siege is a wasteland. A dried up morass bereft of judgment and responsibility, populated by leftover scum and the people who try to keep their heads down long enough to work around them. I tend to be stiffer with punishments delivered there, because there's so much that needs to be done every time I go.
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Siege, thar be pirates, scallywags, brigands of all sorts. Keep siege weird, Malaclypse 2012.
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Probably the best admin in NA. Also, he tells the best jokes ever. If you are bored, I suggest going into IRC and hearing one of this jokes.
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Probably the best admin in NA. Also, he tells the best jokes ever. If you are bored, I suggest going into IRC and hearing one of this jokes.
I'm scare... :lol:
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Look, 4 pages and this is one of the longest living game admin threads. wtf is going on canary? GO BE MORE MEAN
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Not the admin we deserved but the one we needed.
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CANARY TELL ME A JOKE
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CANARY TELL ME A JOKE
ur kd
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ur kd
Sorry if I focus on holding objectives and damaging enemy players instead of kill whoring and hitting my teammates. I think 1,000+ score shows I was being useful. As a level 26 shielder I got into the middle of the enemy, hit as many people as I could before I died. Unfortunately it's harder to finish the job with 6 power strike. :)
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I was muted for the following statement:
wanting to have spook unbanned is not relevant to the thread entitled Unban SpookPalace? :?
Nonsense.
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Funny how that this topic is meant for in game decisions and doesn't correlate to Moderator decisions yet you still post here hmm....
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This is the admin feedback board described in sticky as: "This board is for admin feedback. You can post feedback about any admin on any server but do not create multiple threads for the same admin."
I don't see anything anywhere to indicate that we can't comment about forum moderating here. Where should I have directed this instead?
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I was muted for the following statement:
wanting to have spook unbanned is not relevant to the thread entitled Unban SpookPalace? :?
Nonsense.
You were muted for posting something in breach of the unban forum rules after I'd already given two warnings about doing so in the thread.
Here are those rules, just in case you're as willfully ignorant as you seem to be making yourself out to be:
This section is for ban/unban requests, everything else will be considered spam and sanctioned accordingly.
Only posts allowed are on-topic posts by the people asking for a ban/unban, admins and witnesses that can provide relevant information regarding the individual case.
- Do not post here if you don't have something directly case-related to say. No lobbying, general discussion whether a rule is fair, how admin is nub, etc. Take those things elsewhere, keep this area clear.
- Before posting anything at all, please consider reading the Official Server Rules (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2606.0.html) first.
- General rules discussion must be taken elsewhere (General Discussion (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/board,1.0.html)).
- When making a ban case, having screenshots or video recordings along with a coherant arguement will help.
- If you are permanently banned we will not unban you before you make a unban request. Make a post, if you don't know why you are banned, ask. If you don't make an unban request, you will NOT be unbanned. (If we don't know that you understand why you are banned, we have no reason to unban you.) If you know why you are banned, you will earn a lot of goodwill by telling us why the action was wrong, and promise to not do it again.
- Please remain calm and coherant when posting here, even if you think someone made a mistake. This will allow us to resolve your case quickly!
- If your request was denied, do not post another thread about the same request.
- Failure to abide by the Forum Rules (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4112.0.html) in this section, Unban requests: how to (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2.0.html) by chadz, Ban requests: how to (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4.0.html) by cmpxchg8b, or the rules and guidelines outlined in this post may result in a warning or mute. Failure to read all of the above will not be considered a valid excuse for avoiding punishment.
And here are the two warnings you patently ignored:
If people are going to continue the unhelpful and immaterial chanting I am going to start issuing mutes.
if you guys simply must discuss the ins-and-outs of this situation, post in this thread (http://forum.meleegaming.com/spam/spook-island-banned-indefinitely-on-na/) on the spam board. Stop making irrelevant posts here!
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People make posts in ban/unban forum related to how they feel about the player in question or the ban generally all the time - as it is related to the ban. I've never seen anyone had action taken against them besides me for this. I refer you to these threads:
http://forum.meleegaming.com/na-%28official%29/%28unban%29-paul_in_ho_pow/
http://forum.meleegaming.com/na-%28official%29/ban-request-petergius-mb/
http://forum.meleegaming.com/na-%28official%29/ban-vokano/
http://forum.meleegaming.com/na-%28official%29/%28ban-request%29-kaiden-of-chaos/
Why am I being muted for this action when others are not? I'll tell you why - Spook's ban is controversial. I was calling attention to the controversy.
I'm not saying Canary should be strung up for this. I'm just saying that again and again the admin community on crpg seems to be so concerned with doling out justice and enforcing the rules exactly that sometimes they forget to chill out and have fun playing a video game.
So, please Canary, chill out.
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Only posts allowed are on-topic posts by the people asking for a ban/unban, admins and witnesses that can provide relevant information regarding the individual case.
You broke the rules, deal with it. Many people got muted for posting irrelevat shit in ban/unban threads, including myself many moons ago.
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This is the game admin feedback section, is this even the right place to discuss canary's decisions as a forum mod?
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I recommend that OssumPossum make a big NA drama thread about it in General Discussion so we can call attention to this decision that Canary is clearly in the right on.
I further suggest that OssumPossum pushes on about how correct he is in the face of overwhelming evidence against his case.
Besides, Christo would have a ball with the thread, too.
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I'm just saying that again and again the admin community on crpg seems to be so concerned with doling out justice and enforcing the rules exactly that sometimes they forget to chill out and have fun playing a video game.
So, please Canary, chill out.
The issue you have here is on the forums, which is entirely not playing a video game, but rather a series of discussions about said video game, and is far less fun. I'll "chill out" when people stop breaking the rules.
Anyhow, the reason why I was muting people in that particular thread was because it was one that I was specifically overseeing, as I had issued the original ban. Yes, as you say, it was a controversial topic. It was one that did not need to get any worse by having a mess of random players coming in and editorializing. You weren't calling attention to the controversy, you were exacerbating it. The people starting new threads about it were calling attention to it, and you were welcome to speak up about it there to your heart's content. I will direct you again to the multiple warnings I gave out to try and keep people from breaking the rules by posting useless discussion in the ban section.
In short, I should have just locked the thread in the first place, since nobody seems interested in paying any mind to the forum decorum.
As for those other requests, people are breaking the rules there, too, yes. It's hard to read the entire forums constantly. If I see a thread locked on the NA ban section, it might be typical for me to presume that another of our admins handled the matter satisfactorily, so I may not end up reading every post in it. There is a report post option, too, that hardly anybody seems to use.
In the end, yes, we're concerned with "doling out justice" and "enforcing the rules", but you know why? Because so few people are evidently interested in paying any attention to them, let alone following them. At least I'm giving you the courtesy of discussing why I enforced whatever rules for whichever reason. I literally do not have to say anything about this matter, or even issue warnings for things people should be expected to know already. What's really "nonsense" (as you dismissed one of my decisions) is how much guff we get for doing what we were assigned to do.
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solution: create a well moderated forum moderator feedback forum to moderate this in. then ban yourself from it, canary
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http://forum.meleegaming.com/na-(official)/ban-request-lljk_raxmus-goresaw/msg615211/#msg615211
Are you kidding me? 12 hour ban for griefing like this? What's up with NA admins giving out such pussy bans? Not aimed at you particular, it just surprise me how lenient NA admins are.
When someone have to stop playing to fire up Fraps to get footage of obvious griefing, then take time to upload the movie and everything, it really ought to be more than a measly 12 hours.
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And yet, you see how entitled NA players are about getting to play without being interrupted due to something as measly as being punished for breaking the rules. They'll be quick to demand proof of a misdeed they've done, and how quick they are to argue the rules when that fails!
The majority of the rulebreakers on the NA servers have no idea how good they have it. None of them have ever been given a weeklong ban without a kindly explanation behind it, without a lengthy discussion around an unban appeal. They don't have to face being banned for colorful reasons such as "beta testing".
We really do just need to start taking a page from the EU style of tacit administration. Explaining our actions to the players who ought to know better is really not productive.
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I've come to the same conclusion a few months ago canary. I no longer explain mutes if you don't know why I muted you press l and find out. The worst however are the people that want you to explain every admin action even though they are not remotely involved.
I also wish we could stop responding to the ban requests and just handle and lock them. Responding to them just leads to more shitposting, fights, and Wanabe sheriffs (diggles anders idlemind).
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And yet, you see how entitled NA players are about getting to play without being interrupted due to something as measly as being punished for breaking the rules. They'll be quick to demand proof of a misdeed they've done, and how quick they are to argue the rules when that fails!
The majority of the rulebreakers on the NA servers have no idea how good they have it. None of them have ever been given a weeklong ban without a kindly explanation behind it, without a lengthy discussion around an unban appeal. They don't have to face being banned for colorful reasons such as "beta testing".
We really do just need to start taking a page from the EU style of tacit administration. Explaining our actions to the players who ought to know better is really not productive.
Yeah, I've seen so many topics about people whining about them being banned "for no reason" only to have the next post give a link with screenshots of 5+ teamkills at spawn. Pretty sad, really. I think the problem is that you NA admins had to take screens or something when you banned someone (IIRC), back on the community servers. Probably led to a lot of people thinking that the admins needed proof for every single ban they did. Kinda sad.
What you could do is make a rule that if people deny something that you can prove, whine about badmining when it's obvious breaking of rules, etc., then you increase the ban length or something. If they claim that they never teamkilled or opened gates as defenders and that admins banned "cause they are chocolate chip cookie/commie/homosexuals", then someone comes with a screenshot showing tk's or a bloody video of them opening the gates. Then you really ought to give them some extra time off for pure lies and wasting of everyones time.
You can also just increase the default ban time. It seems that it's normal to give 6-12 hour bans when someone reports something on the forum. Why not increase that to 24 hours, as it is on EU? Also a big increase for repeated offenders. When you get a ban for teamkilling for the 3rd time, then it seems natural to give them 7+ days.
I've come to the same conclusion a few months ago canary. I no longer explain mutes if you don't know why I muted you press l and find out. The worst however are the people that want you to explain every admin action even though they are not remotely involved.
I also wish we could stop responding to the ban requests and just handle and lock them. Responding to them just leads to more shitposting, fights, and Wanabe sheriffs (diggles anders idlemind).
Bolded part: I've read most of them and they are utterly retarded. While asking for an explanation is good and all, it seems that a lot of people don't know when to shut up.
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Regarding bans I have to say EU is incredibly strict on these kinds of things(3 day for first, and 7 for second) which in view of NA is good and bad. Small bans are good for small things or if there is just enough evidence then give them a 6 or 12 but I have to agree if they are being recorded doing it for multiple rounds and/or multiple maps then they need to be punished harshly. It will completely ruin a good day of playing when people are purposefully messing up the game like that.
I don't think NA admins should be more cruel when it isn't needed, or not give explanations (because most people should respect you admins for giving these clear reasons to your every action. People will shit post and come at you and be angry but don't change who you are just because they treat you like that because most of the community respects you), but if people are being hurtful to the community for an extended time with ample evidence they need to receive a harsh punishment.
(Canary, Ganner, and NA adminship nothing against any of you as you can read this you guys do your jobs and I love it. Just saying)
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I am fairly curious on what caused the NA Admins to shift away from one-or-three day bans as the norm, and start giving out so many hour-long bans, most of which are short enough that the recipient won't even notice that there was a ban when the next log-in is performed. It was not always like this.
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Give us all the Saudi Arabia oil and ban lengths may substantially increase...
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I am fairly curious on what caused the NA Admins to shift away from one-or-three day bans as the norm, and start giving out so many hour-long bans, most of which are short enough that the recipient won't even notice that there was a ban when the next log-in is performed. It was not always like this.
because they're worried about their PR/image, not the community. giving someone less than a 24h ban for INTENTIONAL GRIEFING (for the sole purpose of being malicious/lulz) over 40 players on siege, really? get a fucking spine man or give admin to someone that will actually do something worthwhile, like week-month bans for intentional VIDEO documented griefing.
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Regarding bans I have to say EU is incredibly strict on these kinds of things(3 day for first, and 7 for second) which in view of NA is good and bad. Small bans are good for small things or if there is just enough evidence then give them a 6 or 12 but I have to agree if they are being recorded doing it for multiple rounds and/or multiple maps then they need to be punished harshly. It will completely ruin a good day of playing when people are purposefully messing up the game like that.
I don't think NA admins should be more cruel when it isn't needed, or not give explanations (because most people should respect you admins for giving these clear reasons to your every action. People will shit post and come at you and be angry but don't change who you are just because they treat you like that because most of the community respects you), but if people are being hurtful to the community for an extended time with ample evidence they need to receive a harsh punishment.
(Canary, Ganner, and NA adminship nothing against any of you as you can read this you guys do your jobs and I love it. Just saying)
EU admins aren't that strict actually. If it's something they see themselves in-game, then it's usually an hour ban. It's when people have to take screens and post it on the forum that they give day-bans. Rarely have I seen bans for more than 1 day given out in-game.
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Personally my policy has always been 24 hour bans + 1 day for each previous ban if someone takes the time to report it here. Actions witnessed ig are usually shorter because the effect of getting banned while you are playing gets the point across.
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I think the problem is that you NA admins had to take screens or something when you banned someone (IIRC), back on the community servers. Probably led to a lot of people thinking that the admins needed proof for every single ban they did. Kinda sad.
That wasn't how things were done, at least not from what I witnessed back then (and I was eventually an admin on Community). If anything, some of the reason for NA admins being more lenient is because of the absolute literal abuse some of the Community admins used to deal out. The amount of bans issued for conversation was ridiculous (remember the old "don't talk to the admins! You'll get banned!" rule of thumb? It was for real). I mean, it was an admin team who developed a script to permban everyone based on their clan tags just because they disliked that one group of people. I guess we're still trying to move away from that approach. I, for one, would rather err with caution and give more people the benefit of the doubt than make the game shitty and unplayable because of a heavy-handed lack of caring.
I am fairly curious on what caused the NA Admins to shift away from one-or-three day bans as the norm, and start giving out so many hour-long bans, most of which are short enough that the recipient won't even notice that there was a ban when the next log-in is performed. It was not always like this.
You can also just increase the default ban time. It seems that it's normal to give 6-12 hour bans when someone reports something on the forum. Why not increase that to 24 hours, as it is on EU? Also a big increase for repeated offenders. When you get a ban for teamkilling for the 3rd time, then it seems natural to give them 7+ days.
I'm not sure what other folks' reasoning is behind it, but I try to make sure that if I'm not giving a 24 hour ban for what-have-you, it'll be one that occurs during a time when the subject would normally be playing, such as when a report is made the same night for something I was around for but didn't personally witness.
I feel like there is a bit of a problem in some cases where something that got reported might not be worth a whole 24-hour ban if we'd witnessed it in the act, but due to the way we have to handle forum ban requests there's not a good way to punish the person involved without going beyond what we might have done otherwise. Maybe we ought to just ban high and pay closer attention to ban requests for situations that leave a bit of doubt as to the extent of the punishment.
There's another thing we could do better. It seems like lots of times past bans aren't checked or considered until after a ban is issued. It's a matter of putting forth extra effort not just to notice that but also to proceed with updated punishments if there's something that was missed before, but it doesn't always happen.
because they're worried about their PR/image, not the community. giving someone less than a 24h ban for INTENTIONAL GRIEFING (for the sole purpose of being malicious/lulz) over 40 players on siege, really? get a fucking spine man or give admin to someone that will actually do something worthwhile, like week-month bans for intentional VIDEO documented griefing.
Which is why I still have this thread which starts out with a complaint against me made by some random person. Digglez here honestly sounds just as bad as the rulebreakers who try to argue their sentencing ("24 hours just for hitting one guy, really? Should be like 8 hours max") on equally arbitrary terms.
The people causing problems got removed from the server during the night that they were creating a bad environment in the game. When more evidence of rulebreaking was provided, the time until they could come back got increased until the next day. If they do the same thing again (or anything else bad, for that matter), they'll get a much more severe punishment. I could explain why they didn't get banned for longer already in this particular case, but then I think I'd just be too concerned with my public image (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylOCIP54PIQ).
If I were truly not worried about the community I wouldn't have listened to both sides of the story.
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NA Admins aren't slaves to the letter of the rules. We take each situation and individual involved on an individual basis and render a just punishment as each situation calls for. We are not robots, we are human beings capable of making complex decisions, and as Admins we exercise that ability. This will include customizing the ban length to enough to get our point across without being excessive, while still permitting as much freedom of expression from our player base as possible.
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Pretty much what Granpappy said. We usually look up the ban history of the player in question and deliver a ban based on that and whatever rule they broke, but tend to at least give 24 hour bans unless the evidence wasn't too good. Once you get a handful of bans we become ready to issue essay bans which is one ban away from permabanning your account. So even if a punishment seems mild, if they don't get the message they will regret it soon enough.
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http://forum.meleegaming.com/spam/is-canary-the-biggest-my old friendnerd-of-crpg/
...I wonder if I should just merge that with this thread.
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After being subject to admin abuse, in the diplomacy forum. I have to ask if this admin should even be admin at all? You can see my post about tanken and his clan KUTT being locked, and then my post about Canary himself being swiftly sent to spam. I really have to wonder if this admin should have admin at all?
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He locked both my accounts (My main, and my barely used) but not my new girls yet! Have a feeling hes butt my old friends with tanken, since he wanted desperately to get my info of the forum.
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Drama these days..
I'm disappointed.
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Truth is tanken wanted support to take Hospis Sungetche castle. He was going to fuck Hospi in the ass! Until some other members like tugboat my old friendface decides it would be good to suck hospis cock all strat again. Arys was completely fucked. Which makes me laugh when I see him supporting Tanken so much LMAO. I am just only sorry to the FCC guys, just the cool ones. Pappy huey maeday sexy chika fos kesh etc for even gettin u even named in this fukin idiots shit.
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He locked both my accounts (My main, and my barely used) but not my new girls yet! Have a feeling hes butt my old friends with tanken, since he wanted desperately to get my info of the forum.
Multi-accounting is against the rules, Canary is acting as expected if I am reading this right.
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Aren't you the nerd that tried to close my first post against Tanken down?
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Truth is tanken wanted support to take Hospis Sungetche castle. He was going to fuck Hospi in the ass! Until some other members like tugboat my old friendface decides it would be good to suck hospis cock all strat again. Arys was completely fucked. Which makes me laugh when I see him supporting Tanken so much LMAO. I am just only sorry to the FCC guys, just the cool ones. Pappy huey maeday sexy chika fos kesh etc for even gettin u even named in this fukin idiots shit.
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Multi-accounting is against the rules, Canary is acting as expected if I am reading this right.
Sexy chika!
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I love little jokes admins make when making Bans it makes them fun. Like giving them a vacation or a little time away and stuff.
Also Take a look in the NA ban, Muki has got your back haha. +1 for muki
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IIRC he banned Spooks and now he banned r_kelly
Best fucking admin ever.
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Canary must be down syndrome. he didnt even look at screenshots of ban request on me, and banned me for a month based on his blood thirsty rage-hate towards me being a better dueler than him. thumbs down for me, how much money can i donate to be able to ban him back?
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Canary must be down syndrome. he didnt even look at screenshots of ban request on me, and banned me for a month based on his blood thirsty rage-hate towards me being a better dueler than him. thumbs down for me, how much money can i donate to be able to ban him back?
How much money can I donate to get this guy permabanned
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Lol at this possum kid -1'ing all of canary's posts out of spite. Honestly, there are like 3 people in this thread that need to get over themselves and just learn to play by the rules like everyone else.
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Lol at this possum kid -1'ing all of canary's posts out of spite. Honestly, there are like 3 people in this thread that need to get over themselves and just learn to play by the rules like everyone else.
Lol where are the -1? everything I see in this thread is no vote, unless he reverted them after your comment which would be funny too.
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you do your job well, sir. :D
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Hey there, not sure if you moderated this thread or not but I would like to ask few questions. In case it wasn't you, please ingore this post.
I'm fully aware of rules and agree with warning, but certain people weren't warned even though they posted irrelevant stuff in this topic: http://forum.meleegaming.com/eu-(official)/ban-merc_bjord/
I won't name people, everyone can see for themselves who is warned and who isn't. Same goes for relevant and irrelevant posting.
Thanks for your time.
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It was me, yes.
I skimmed the thread because there were multiple reports opened about certain posts in it. Those, at first, were all I warned, but I looked over a few other posts and gave warnings for the ones that were most obviously not relevant.
People have also been posting there since the first spate of warnings were given. High-profile ban request threads are always a mess. It's going to be an ongoing effort until the thread gets locked, and I'll typically go over the whole thread again when new information comes in.
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Thanks for quick reply. I was just worried you being selective was intentional for some reason. Sorry for bothering you.
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http://forum.meleegaming.com/diplomacy/use-this-thread-to-talk-about-that-city/msg688618/#msg688618
"Diplomacy spam. Muted for attitude in spoiler. " +50 points
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