cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Native_ATS on February 22, 2011, 11:30:51 pm
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I hear a lot of people saying throwing is going to be nerfed, I dont want to believe that it is but it does seem like a lot of people are throwing low tier items (darts, rocks, jav, axes) I want to see if the Dev can shed some light on this or if anyone can post a link to where this was said?
I thought to myself why people would nerf it, and if it truly dose need a nerf.
I been a thrower for 12gens now, nothing but throwing. I done pony thrower, shield thrower, 1hand/shield thrower, speed thrower, and pure thrower. I have heirloomed axes, snowflakes, javs, and lances. Throwing has been nerfed once before, the speed and range was nerfed for high tier throwing.
yet low tier wasnt really nerfed, it was buffed. Now I hear they will nerf throwing again.
All that needs to be done to throwing is to raise the PT (powerThrow) of all low tier throwing. I would say raise it by 2, and raise top tier throwing by 1. This fixs the spam of people just getting throwing because its sooo easy to fit into their build. If you take away the super free entry to throwing less people will spam javs and darts. I mean 3 pt for jav is way to low.
Why throwing dosnt need a nerf
people cry(2handers/pole-arm user most of the time) that it isnt fair that u can 1 shot people with throwing lances.
Frist off that isnt true, you cant 1 shot most people until you have 9-10 pt which means you need 27 str. The fact that you need that much means youre going to be a str build and in truth with 9-10 ps you can 1 shot people anyways with a bec or longaxe.
People say you can spam throwing?
Yes you can, but not in high tier throwing, only low tier throwing can you spam(darts,stars,rocks)
mid tier cant spam (javs,throwing axes)
high tier spam? no way!(throwing spears-lances)
So if its the spam the dev want to fix they should find a way to fix low tier throwing without nerfing high tier throwing.
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Why throwing dosnt need a nerf
people cry(2handers/pole-arm user most of the time) that it isnt fair that u can 1 shot people with throwing lances.
Frist off that isnt true, you cant 1 shot most people until you have 9-10 pt which means you need 27 str. The fact that you need that much means youre going to be a str build and in truth with 9-10 ps you can 1 shot people anyways with a bec or longaxe.
The problem with your argument is that a bec or longaxe (or any 2her sword, they can all one-shot the average build) can be blocked. That throwing lance cannot be blocked except by a shield.
I was always a ranged/melee hybrid of some sort. Gorath was a notorious throwing spear user pre-patch (7 PT) for my hoplite look. However the issue people have is with any ranged weapon 1-shotting someone as it's only blockable by a shield. Headshots are ok for 1-shot kills, but no ranged weapon (for the sake of gameplay) should ever 1-shot anyone with a body shot. Bows can't do it, x-bows can't do it anymore, throwing is the only ranged attack left capable of 1-shotting people with body hits and THAT is what needs nerfing.
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Foot shotted with a war dart..
Nuff said.
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I don't see how someone would be able to throw 3 axes in the time it takes a guy to shoot 1 arrow. I think throwing would be fine if they just lowered the throwing speed to be around the same as it is for archers. Throwing would have the advantage over archery in the damage category, which should be kept the same. And throwing lances should be nerfed or removed. The damage is stupid high. If someone can one shot with the other throwing weapons then i think that is fine though.
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The problem with your argument is that a bec or longaxe (or any 2her sword, they can all one-shot the average build) can be blocked. That throwing lance cannot be blocked except by a shield.
I was always a ranged/melee hybrid of some sort. Gorath was a notorious throwing spear user pre-patch (7 PT) for my hoplite look. However the issue people have is with any ranged weapon 1-shotting someone as it's only blockable by a shield. Headshots are ok for 1-shot kills, but no ranged weapon (for the sake of gameplay) should ever 1-shot anyone with a body shot. Bows can't do it, x-bows can't do it anymore, throwing is the only ranged attack left capable of 1-shotting people with body hits and THAT is what needs nerfing.
ponys can 1 shot people and you cant block it unless you have a sheild. You can not block the maul, or long maul and thos can 1 shot.
xbows still can 1 shot people(though not like befor)
axes, swords can be used over and over again well lances can be used 2 times,
I belive throwing to be the counter to cav and 2 handers, and i dont want it nerfed if it is part of the blances, i dont mind if low teir gets a hit because low tier throwing is op at higher lvls. If mauls where taken out would the game still be the same? i dont think it would, and i feel without throwing it will be the same. Its hard to hit with the lance, people can just move around and let the lance thrower waste his 2 shots, or bum a lvl 1 sheild laugh as he waste his lances to brake it.
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I don't see how someone would be able to throw 3 axes in the time it takes a guy to shoot 1 arrow. I think throwing would be fine if they just lowered the throwing speed to be around the same as it is for archers. Throwing would have the advantage over archery in the damage category, which should be kept the same. And throwing lances should be nerfed or removed. The damage is stupid high. If someone can one shot with the other throwing weapons then i think that is fine though.
i think maybe you mean 2 axes, getting 3 axes off well the bowmen shots 1 arrows is fail on the bowman part, but being so close to a thrower is even a bigger fail lol
i think the speed should be lowered on low tier, but not on high tier throwing items, i cant throw lances faster then a bow, i tryed and it dosent work.
bows have range, aim, and speed over throwing. Throwing dose have damg tho.
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ponys can 1 shot people and you cant block it unless you have a sheild. You can not block the maul, or long maul and thos can 1 shot.
xbows still can 1 shot people(though not like befor)
axes, swords can be used over and over again well lances can be used 2 times,
I belive throwing to be the counter to cav and 2 handers, and i dont want it nerfed if it is part of the blances, i dont mind if low teir gets a hit because low tier throwing is op at higher lvls. If mauls where taken out would the game still be the same? i dont think it would, and i feel without throwing it will be the same. Its hard to hit with the lance, people can just move around and let the lance thrower waste his 2 shots, or bum a lvl 1 sheild laugh as he waste his lances to brake it.
1. Couching is mcuh easier to avoid, the horseman puts himself in danger.
2. Full str builds cant oneshot with the weapons you mentioned.
3. Crushtrough negates much damage, so no oneshotting there.
Throwing is too accessable and powerful for hybrids. Everyone runs around lobbing a weapon, at almost no cost, most don't even have that much wpf or nothing at all. Only at the cost of accuracy, damage stays the same.
Fix: make wpf necessary to do damage.
Full str throwers are ridiculously powerful and accurate. Not certain: powerthrow adds accuracy. I've heard it does, but haven't tested myself. I think it does.
Fix: Above mentioned wpf change and a nerf to powerthrow.
In my opinion, this would balance throwing.
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1. Couching is mcuh easier to avoid, the horseman puts himself in danger.
2. Full str builds cant oneshot with the weapons you mentioned.
3. Crushtrough negates much damage, so no oneshotting there.
Throwing is too accessable and powerful for hybrids. Everyone runs around lobbing a weapon, at almost no cost, most don't even have that much wpf or nothing at all. Only at the cost of accuracy, damage stays the same.
Fix: make wpf necessary to do damage.
Full str throwers are ridiculously powerful and accurate. Not certain: powerthrow adds accuracy. I've heard it does, but haven't tested myself. I think it does.
Fix: Above mentioned wpf change and a nerf to powerthrow.
In my opinion, this would balance throwing.
1 ponys get away alot after there attack, as a slow thrower dosent
2 Yes they can, u see goretooth kill in 1 hit, and he isnt all str, i kill 80% of the time in 1 hit with a long axe or a lance thrust(10pt gose along way)
3 i use a long maul and it takes 1-2 shot at most (again 10 pt gose along way lol)
i do love you ideas on wpf, throwing should be base way more on wpf then pt, am sure if wpf was need less people would spam pt instead of IF
its just a tad hard to get lots of wpf since throwing needs str, but am sure it can be done, i never thrown with out 105 wpf
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I've been killed by throwing weapons but never felt they problematic. I kill throwers more than they kill me. I'm also smart enough to bring a big shield. :rolleyes:
However I do agree that if there is a problem it's probably in the low-tier throwing weapons because their ammo counts are so high. The second issue would be PT increasing accuracy rather than WPF, which was one of the original problems with archery in cRPG. All in all, war darts are a bit too scary in cRPG.
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I'm also smart enough to bring a big shield. :rolleyes:
Well, yes. Everyone should use a huscarl since it's the only shield which protect somewhat vs throwing spam, since they break my shield (knightly heather shield) in two hits with axes and crap.
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ponys can 1 shot people and you cant block it unless you have a sheild. You can not block the maul, or long maul and thos can 1 shot.
Melee range, melee range and melee range. Apples and oranges here. I specifically said RANGED weapons shouldn't be capable of 1-shotting anyone. Melee range you're in range of danger yourself, with range you are not. Risk vs reward. Range is low to zero risk for high to extreme rewards. That's where the balance comes into play.
xbows still can 1 shot people(though not like befor)
No. With a balanced build (18 str, 3 IF) an heirloomed sniper-xbow only deals 75% of my hp bar with a body shot. X-bows do not 1-shot anyone anymore from full hp - 0 unless that person is a peasant with no armor. 2-shot, yup which is fine given the slow reload speed. It can also 1-shot headshot people, which is fine as well. Only high level throwing weapons are capable of fully 100%-0% hp 1-shotting people anymore.
axes, swords can be used over and over again well lances can be used 2 times,
Throwing can also be used an infinite amount of times as long as you pick up your missed shots or the missed shots of other people.
I belive throwing to be the counter to cav
That would be pikes
and 2 handers,
That's all ranged
and i dont want it nerfed
Obviously
If mauls where taken out would the game still be the same?
Mauls are fine and are balanced to justify their crush mechanic (super slow, short range. The long maul is a bit long for the mechanic but is amazingly spammable if you get in close due to it's extremely slow speed). As far as the broken crush weapons (heirloomed lolmaces and such) yeah the game will be better without them as they are.
and i feel without throwing it will be the same.
Throwing wouldn't be removed, it just shouldn't 1-shot. There's a large difference.
Its hard to hit with the lance,
No, no it's not. I've done more than enough throwing and only recently have I dropped throwing completely in order to go with x-bows because:
1) Everyone and their brother is a thrower now which makes it lame rather than a fun niche
2) X-bows are the weakest ranged weapon and have the most style points currently.
people can just move around and let the lance thrower waste his 2 shots
Same can be said of any ranged, or melee for that matter, weapon.
or bum a lvl 1 sheild laugh as he waste his lances to brake it.
A level 1 shield will break in 1 lance and you know this well Native. I understand you love throwing, I do too (other than how FotM it's gotten) but look outside your preferred playstyle and see the bigger picture. Ranged weapons should never 1-shot unless it's a headshot. Period.
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Ranged weapons should never 1-shot unless it's a headshot. Period.
-goretooth
THIS. This is why I dislike throwing, because I simply cannot defend myself. "Hurrr you should have a sheild" is not responce to that, by the way; everyone shouldn't have to conform to someone elses play style just to stay alive. Throwing is silly right now, and needs to be fixed.
I made a post about how to fix throwing in the suggestions forum. Basically, throwing should act AS A SUPPLEMENT TO THE AVERAGE INFANTRY GUY'S ARSENAL. If you want to specialize in throwing weapons, then you're different than the average infantry guy obviously. The problem is that throwing weapons are currently spam weapons, you can't fucking aim. Throwing with accuracy at any distance is very very difficult, but it's currently worth it right now because thrown weapons do ridiculous amounts of damage, and you can throw them faster than most archers can shoot. You can also throw on the move.
All of those things contribute to a spam attitude among throwers. It's ridiculous.
FIX THE PROBLEM by making thrown weapons non-spamtastic. Make them much more accurate, but make the rate of fire slower. Make it so that thrown weapons are really inaccurate while moving. Decrease the amount of axes/javelines/loldarts/lances a thrower has. Because throwers will actually be able to hit what they're aiming at, you can decrease the damage throwing weapons do. Instead of relying on chance and massive damage, they can rely on skill and timing. They'll have less items to throw, so they should actually focus on conserving ammunition and waiting for the right moment to throw.
Read my post in the suggestion forum.
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Let's look at this way, what does counter throwers?
We've ruled out 2h and cavalry.
Shield ... well, after 2 axes my nonround shield was gone, so my only option is to charge him and never let go even though I'm fighting against a 2h/pole/1h+shield with almost the same wpf/stats as me with a puny 1h, and just pray I never get backstabbed. Possible, yes, but counter, no.
Archer or crossbow? Well, thrower can carry a shield, shoot faster and do more damage...
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Let's look at this way, what does counter throwers?
Throwing, or if he doesn't carry a shield, archery, provided it's at long distance.
Which says it all.
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Throwers suck.
They need to be penalized moar.
theres my 2 cents.
(removed comments about Native)
-In fact I try to kill him as soon as I see him ne ways.
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Raise PT requirements on lower tiers and increase reticle/accuracy box when moving (similar to archery). I'd be happy with that.
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Raise PT requirements on lower tiers and increase reticle/accuracy box when moving (similar to archery). I'd be happy with that.
+1 Also increasing the cost to buy them and the upkeep would help to keep people from abusing them.
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Risk vs reward. Range is low to zero risk for high to extreme rewards. That's where the balance comes into play
Throwing is low ammo, low range needs a higher reward and most throwers get up in peoples faces, so if they miss it is over. I'm not worryed about all this FOTM throwers, i know there aim is bad and its just spam for them, i use a teir 1 sheild to get in close and then i just beat them to death with my lance, no reason to throw my lances at someone who cant fight with theres lol.
x-bow doing 80% hp in 1 shot is sad, no skill points needed, no wpf just need to own one and ur good to go
you can pick up your ammo, but why would you let a thrower pick up his gear, also if its in a ladder or door, the item is gone
as of pikes being a counter to ponys, i say no, all smart ponys stay way form pikes because they see them a mile away, but when your able to throw your pike(throwing lance) the ponys just seem to die. I round up pony kills like crazy in most games, but i dont see pike men being able to keep up.
i dont want high tier nerffed :)
mauls are mauls, just wanted it to be know they can 1 shot people just as easy as lances and you cant block them. yet there used to stop sheild maddnes
throwing lances dont 1 shot untill you have 9-10 pt, and even then some people just dont die.
Throwing spears, throwing Jav are not lances, am talking about the 7pt throwing lances( they should be like 8-9pt) only time to time do i see people throw them like i do, i think i only seen you throw spears.
No its not the same for all range, throwing high tier items are slow, arrows are so much faster, a tad harder to move out of an arrows way or xbolt then a throwing lance.
A teir 2 round sheild can takes 2 lances befor its done, but sheilds do brake. I do love throwing. I hate that it seems people are crying about it as it is all broken. Throwing a knife would kill anyone, but this is a game as in this game throwing knifes dont kill with 1, but i would think if you get blasted by a lance you shouldnt be able to fight. If they do nerf damg, i only hope they let the people who loomed so many throwing items get them back, if i wanted to hurt a man i would throw javs and not waste so much str geting to lances lol
gorath you been throwing along time too, maybe you can list your ideas on how to fix it if it had to be fixed?
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Significantly reduce speed rating and damage.
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You can't touch throwing speed.. it already got nerfed so much already.
You can lower damage , and you can't lower stacks.
The only real fixes possibles are the following 2 :
1st : Make WPF required to throw better..
2nd : Lower damages of some throwing weapons.
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You can't touch throwing speed.. it already got nerfed so much already.
You can lower damage , and you can't lower stacks.
The only real fixes possibles are the following 2 :
1st : Make WPF required to throw better..
2nd : Lower damages of some throwing weapons.
i see you been throwing befor patch :mrgreen:
i vote yes on wpf
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Foot shotted with a war dart..
Nuff said.
That was me! You were crossing a ladder bridge.
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-goretooth
THIS. This is why I dislike throwing, because I simply cannot defend myself. "Hurrr you should have a sheild" is not responce to that, by the way; everyone shouldn't have to conform to someone elses play style just to stay alive. Throwing is silly right now, and needs to be fixed.
I made a post about how to fix throwing in the suggestions forum. Basically, throwing should act AS A SUPPLEMENT TO THE AVERAGE INFANTRY GUY'S ARSENAL. If you want to specialize in throwing weapons, then you're different than the average infantry guy obviously. The problem is that throwing weapons are currently spam weapons, you can't fucking aim. Throwing with accuracy at any distance is very very difficult, but it's currently worth it right now because thrown weapons do ridiculous amounts of damage, and you can throw them faster than most archers can shoot. You can also throw on the move.
All of those things contribute to a spam attitude among throwers. It's ridiculous.
FIX THE PROBLEM by making thrown weapons non-spamtastic. Make them much more accurate, but make the rate of fire slower. Make it so that thrown weapons are really inaccurate while moving. Decrease the amount of axes/javelines/loldarts/lances a thrower has. Because throwers will actually be able to hit what they're aiming at, you can decrease the damage throwing weapons do. Instead of relying on chance and massive damage, they can rely on skill and timing. They'll have less items to throw, so they should actually focus on conserving ammunition and waiting for the right moment to throw.
Read my post in the suggestion forum.
I can hit people across the map with a Jarid - 115 wpf throwing / 6PT
Sure it isn't incredibly accurate but it's all in the timing, or the over aiming due to driveby speed or height differences. Takes practice. If I had a low ping I would be deadly.
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gorath you been throwing along time too, maybe you can list your ideas on how to fix it if it had to be fixed?
1) Make a wpf curve much like x-bows. People think that you can use x-bows without wpf, which is true, however the difference between your 1 wpf and my 130 wpf is pretty huge and the chances I'll headshot you from across the map are far far greater because of it.
and
2) Rebalance the damage to prevent 1 shot kills. Personally I think and have always thought throwing lances are retarded and would love to see them removed for the sake of reducing the lolwut factor of the game (like the damned boulder on a stick and looney tunes axe). High damage per shot is fine, but 1-hits shouldn't happen unless done to the dome.
or
3) Rebalance ammo counts to be somewhat feasible. The darts I don't have much issue with due to their size, shape and quivers. Throwing dagger counts make sense, but 16 throwing axes? Are you pooping them out through some strangely mutated colon? 16 throwing spears? I guess it would explain why we run like we have sticks up our butts. If we're not going to reduce damages, then reduce ammo counts to remain somewhat in the realm of sanity (not realism).
or
4) Combination of 2 and 3: The weapons with high ammo counts get nerfs so that they only hurt from headshots (I know all too well how lethal war darts are with 6+ PT to the body both as thrower and throwee). The weapons which deal rediculous damage can maintain that damage but have their ammo counts further reduced to force more aim and less spam into masses gameplay.
and/or
5) Increase the weight of thrown weapons across the board. One of the most powerful tools in throwings arsenal is that it's the only ranged weapon which is extremely effective and accurate when done on the run. Therefore in order to minimize this extremely powerful benefit (I abused the hell out of it before) increase the weight of throwing weapons to significantly reduce movement speed.
or
6) Put a cap on the effect of Power Throw like Power Draw had in native. You gain the benefit of the bonus from PT up to 3 above the requirement of the weapon and then anything more is wasted points. This would prevent the 7-8 PT war dart machine guns, snow flake storms, walls of throwing daggers, rapid fire rock snipers, etc.
Personally the options I would go with would be 1 and 6.
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The problem with your argument is that a bec or longaxe (or any 2her sword, they can all one-shot the average build) can be blocked. That throwing lance cannot be blocked except by a shield.
I was always a ranged/melee hybrid of some sort. Gorath was a notorious throwing spear user pre-patch (7 PT) for my hoplite look. However the issue people have is with any ranged weapon 1-shotting someone as it's only blockable by a shield. Headshots are ok for 1-shot kills, but no ranged weapon (for the sake of gameplay) should ever 1-shot anyone with a body shot. Bows can't do it, x-bows can't do it anymore, throwing is the only ranged attack left capable of 1-shotting people with body hits and THAT is what needs nerfing.
I am currently rocking a 24str build (more than average health), and I get 1-shot by xbows, and 2-shot by archers on a pretty consistent basis.
All ranged should be nerfed, with all of the heirlooming going on, the same problem has arisen that was here pre-patch, ranged has become a way for noobs to easy-kill skilled players that don't dump multiple points into shield on every single build. And let's face it, a noob shouldn't be able to consistently take out a player that they wouldn't even be able to hurt, were their builds identical.
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I am currently rocking a 24str build (more than average health), and I get 1-shot by xbows, and 2-shot by archers on a pretty consistent basis.
All ranged should be nerfed, with all of the heirlooming going on, the same problem has arisen that was here pre-patch, ranged has become a way for noobs to easy-kill skilled players that don't dump multiple points into shield on every single build. And let's face it, a noob shouldn't be able to consistently take out a player that they wouldn't even be able to hurt, were their builds identical.
What on earth are you wearing for armor? And noobs can not shoot to save lives, given they can not lead a target for crap. Games involves significantly more top-scoring throwers/meleeists then they do archers.
As for 1-shot by xbows, that is due to them shooting you in the head (the last few matches without fail I saw you getting one-shot only due to head shots). Last I checked you do not ride around on peasent gear. Nerf throwers? Yes. Nerf archers who soften more then kill? Why?
I have yet to see any "noob" who can consistently take targets out with a bow, due to, again, not ebing able to track multiple targets and thus get ganked by a melee user due to tunnel vision, as well as being worthless worthless shots.
Usually when a guy goes down at range due to "noobs" it is from a half dozen archers shooting at you, and face it even in melee a half dozen players ganging up on someone usually results in a death.
I am reminded of how many Melee/Cav characters that can one shot people too... Are they unskilled then?
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What on earth are you wearing for armor? And noobs can not shoot to save lives, given they can not lead a target for crap. Games involves significantly more top-scoring throwers/meleeists then they do archers.
As for 1-shot by xbows, that is due to them shooting you in the head (the last few matches without fail I saw you getting one-shot only due to head shots). Last I checked you do not ride around on peasent gear. Nerf throwers? Yes. Nerf archers who soften more then kill? Why?
I have yet to see any "noob" who can consistently take targets out with a bow, due to, again, not ebing able to track multiple targets and thus get ganked by a melee user due to tunnel vision, as well as being worthless worthless shots.
Usually when a guy goes down at range due to "noobs" it is from a half dozen archers shooting at you, and face it even in melee a half dozen players ganging up on someone usually results in a death.
I am reminded of how many Melee/Cav characters that can one shot people too... Are they unskilled then?
Versus cav/melee you have a chance to kill them, versus range, you don't. And what are you talking about, I haven't even played today... As for my gear, I wear whatever I consider to be stylish.
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And what are you talking about, I haven't even played today
Dude you were on the NA servers earlier today for over an hour, so... what are YOU talking about? :?
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Versus cav/melee you have a chance to kill them, versus range, you don't. And what are you talking about, I haven't even played today... As for my gear, I wear whatever I consider to be stylish.
I said last few, last "Few" not "Today". Last few as in the last few matches I was in that had you in them as well.
What are you talking about?!
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Oh boy, another throwing topic. Ok, I'm a thrower and here is my take on a proper nerf to throwing so these spam kids can't do this shit anymore.
Well, to fix throwing without it being stupid you need to: 1. Make it not spammable. 2. Make it more skill based/investment required.
This is pretty simple to do. You slow down the animation for throwing much like for archers (or just lower the weapon speed, that is easier) which makes it less spammable, ALSO, you can increase the weight of throwing stacks so if you run in with 4 stacks of throwing axes for example, YOU ARE SLOWER FROM ALL THE WEIGHT :D . Suddenly spam is way less viable.
As for making throwing more skill based / also actual investment into stats you have to make WPF do more and PT do less (which they can't do until WSE is implemented I don't think? Correct me if I'm wrong on that one.). Currently PT does way more than WPF so most people are 1 wpf throwing just fine.
So throwing damage lowered, accuracy increased and make it require a WPF investment to be useful.
Ah well, I just hope it is nerfed in a logical manner. Maybe something we haven't thought of.
**I think throwing lances are retarded, you shouldn't have a onehit kill weapon based on LUCK not SKILL. I feel bad being a thrower because that shit exists.
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Dude you were on the NA servers earlier today for over an hour, so... what are YOU talking about? :?
Dreaming about me playing with you. I appreciate such a worshiping.
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Dreaming about me playing with you. I appreciate such a worshiping.
:shock: plz keeps post in here about throwing
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Native has such a boner about throwing.
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Well put Native.
My main character is a bec user, my two highest level alts are a sword n board and a dedicated thrower. Raising the requirements on low tier throwing would be a simple and effective fix.
The main issue with throwing is that it is too accessible for hybrids. Forcing PT on items like war darts to 4 would stave off most of the effects of this issue. When I am on my main, 1 v 1 against a thrower, I have little problem avoiding thrown missiles, even without a shield. When you fit multiple opponents in the mix, even if its still an even match up, avoiding projectiles becomes an issue. I think the damage, number of weapons per stack, and accuracy are all fine, but the accessibility of thrown weapons is the real problem.
Bear in mind: throwers may do more damage than a bow, but they severely lack the range, projectile speed (this is a huge disadvantage,) accuracy and ammo of a bow user. This means you need to be in the cluster-fuck of combat to make your few weapons count. The major draw-back of this is that you don't have a decent melee weapon if you're a dedicated thrower.
Ever tried to fight someone off with a javalin in melee? It ain't pretty. You can't run away either because you have very few points in agility/athletics.
Throwers are quite unique in c-RPG. Don't nerf them into oblivion because of cryers like this guy Native has such a boner about throwing.
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lower stack size. go ahead and make them MORE accurate. Oh wait.. said that months ago.
The real problem is the sheer abundance of ranged combat - don't any of you fuckers fight?
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I'd rather not have that Zisa. With 11 pt, war darts are already pinpoint accurate, and a great weapon to get head shots with. Making all throwing weapons more accurate would actually add to the problem of hybrid-throw spamming, since you would need less total power throw to be effective.
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Oh boy, another throwing topic. Ok, I'm a thrower and here is my take on a proper nerf to throwing so these spam kids can't do this shit anymore.
Well, to fix throwing without it being stupid you need to: 1. Make it not spammable. 2. Make it more skill based/investment required.
This is pretty simple to do. You slow down the animation for throwing much like for archers (or just lower the weapon speed, that is easier) which makes it less spammable, ALSO, you can increase the weight of throwing stacks so if you run in with 4 stacks of throwing axes for example, YOU ARE SLOWER FROM ALL THE WEIGHT :D . Suddenly spam is way less viable.
As for making throwing more skill based / also actual investment into stats you have to make WPF do more and PT do less (which they can't do until WSE is implemented I don't think? Correct me if I'm wrong on that one.). Currently PT does way more than WPF so most people are 1 wpf throwing just fine.
So throwing damage lowered, accuracy increased and make it require a WPF investment to be useful.
Ah well, I just hope it is nerfed in a logical manner. Maybe something we haven't thought of.
**I think throwing lances are retarded, you shouldn't have a onehit kill weapon based on LUCK not SKILL. I feel bad being a thrower because that shit exists.
Someone at least acknowledge the post, don't get so distracted by balton.
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I think the easiest way is to just increase the cost of throwing weapons, hey you are throwing them away right?
Means they are gone! No repair, replacement! Ok that's a realism crap arguement, the full price would be far too harsh,
just so that it is not affordable anymore to run around in mail with shield+expensive sword and 2 stacks of "throw for an easy kill stuff".
It worked for heavy bumper horses and xbows, now do it against the throw spam.
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Let me block with rocks and I'll use those from now on.
Throwing rocks deal blunt damage and with 11 PT, they hurt, they're pinpoint accurate and the range is pretty good. I don't use em much, because I can't block with them in melee.
The only weapons I 1-shot people with are the jarids and throwing lances. With all the others, the receivers are either allready softened up or ninja agility stackers in low armour.
Add to that, it's pretty damn hard to hit an aware target and to be even remotely accurate (hit what you aim for) you need to be pretty close to the fight. I've had occasions where the ninja would leave his current target, zig-zag his way up to me and kill me. With 7 athletics, I can get 2 axes off tops before he reaches me. My only chance is if he runs the last meter in a straight line so I can toss an axe in his chest.
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What I can tell you ALL.
Requirement in throwing weapons is a "mirror" of accuracy. Why? Since PT every point above req is increasing accuracy, thats why for example rocks with 10PT are pinpoint accurate.
So, if you will increase req, you have reached two points of nerfing out of (IMO) 4 available.
1. Less hybrid throwers.
2. Worse accuracy of throwing weapons, because, since you can get "only" 14 PT on 31 lvl, even rocks, if 0 < req < 3, will be much less accurate.
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Third point of nerf should be decreasing dmg of throwing weapons, for, lets say, 15%.
Fourth point of nerf should be decreasing amount of ammo in every stack by 1.
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You do understand having lower accuracy promotes spamming and luck based play rather than skill based play.
Although that being said, raising requirements is not bad idea but don't go about it in a way that is not conducive to players needing some skill.
Rocks aren't pinpoint, but they do get pretty damn accurate -- however, don't discriminate stones apart from the other 0 point throwing weapons like snowflakes.
Let me block with rocks and I'll use those from now on.
It is called chambering. I do it all day with mine all the time -- My entire generation currently is a gimmick on stones, even using them for melee.
Its caused some bad side effects. You can't block, so my manual blocking has gotten bad since I have to chamber to block with my stones. I now chamber better than I manual block as a result :P. Try it out some time.
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On my throwing char, rocks are indeed pinpoint accurate. The only reason they miss is because of the laughably slow projectile speed. If someone is standing still, afk, with stones I have a guarenteed headshot. If they don't change walking direction, I have a guarenteed headshot
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oh if they do nerf throwing i say they up the fighting skill with the weapon :mrgreen: hit some with a stone for 18b :D
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With the WSE that cmpx made, it may be possible for the dev team to change the requirements for weapons to be WPF based, instead of attribute.
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I'm on my second gen using throwing. I love it and I also feel its overpowered - a bit. I have 27-30 strength and 8-9 PT. I used heavy axes. The people I one shot a)wear cloth/leather, b)agi build(16 str or less). I don't one shot plate-wearers or chainmail types. Since there is more low tier armor out there due to repair costs, there is more bitching, as if throwing suddenly, mysteriously got stronger somewhere.
The problems I see are the amount of throwers. There are so many because the PT requirements are too low and throwing really does not require any wpf to be effective. You can spam them into crowds and get a kill or two. WPF should be more of a factor for accuracy, damage and speed. If proficiency was more important, I think there would be less people dabbling in throwing with PT only. If I have 100 in throwing and PT 8-9, I think I should be able to be as effective as I am now. I don't think there should be any changes to throwing if you are at the upper end of PT and wpf. Its the lower end that needs adjusting.
I dont believe the loadout should be less. If you use lances, you only get two anyway. Axes and jarids, you get 4. Most of the time, you cannot get them back.
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throwing lances removed/changed for the heir loomed ones, speed lowered a shit load on high tier ones.
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Man, it sure is awesome being on IRC and hearing all the intended changes to throwing getting discussed.
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throwing lances removed/changed for the heir loomed ones, speed lowered a shit load on high tier ones.
i think its the other way around, speed on lances is ballz, low tier needs the nerf, but form what other throwers and people been saying it seems most think wpf needs to be a factor, or raise the PT cost to throw
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I'm on my second gen using throwing. I love it and I also feel its overpowered - a bit. I have 27-30 strength and 8-9 PT. I used heavy axes. The people I one shot a)wear cloth/leather, b)agi build(16 str or less). I don't one shot plate-wearers or chainmail types. Since there is more low tier armor out there due to repair costs, there is more bitching, as if throwing suddenly, mysteriously got stronger somewhere.
The problems I see are the amount of throwers. There are so many because the PT requirements are too low and throwing really does not require any wpf to be effective. You can spam them into crowds and get a kill or two. WPF should be more of a factor for accuracy, damage and speed. If proficiency was more important, I think there would be less people dabbling in throwing with PT only. If I have 100 in throwing and PT 8-9, I think I should be able to be as effective as I am now. I don't think there should be any changes to throwing if you are at the upper end of PT and wpf. Its the lower end that needs adjusting.
I dont believe the loadout should be less. If you use lances, you only get two anyway. Axes and jarids, you get 4. Most of the time, you cannot get them back.
100% agreed. +1 awesome point to you Jesus. Now go die for my kung-fu sins!