Thoughts on how to fix throwing, if it even needs to be fix

[Native_ATS]

I hear a lot of people saying throwing is going to be nerfed, I don’t want to believe that it is but it does seem like a lot of people are throwing low tier items (darts, rocks, jav, axes) I want to see if the Dev can shed some light on this or if anyone can post a link to where this was said?

I thought to myself why people would nerf it, and if it truly dose need a nerf.
I been a thrower for 12gens now, nothing but throwing. I done pony thrower, shield thrower, 1hand/shield thrower, speed thrower, and pure thrower. I have heirloomed axes, snowflakes, javs, and lances. Throwing has been nerfed once before, the speed and range was nerfed for high tier throwing.
yet low tier wasn’t really nerfed, it was buffed. Now I hear they will nerf throwing again.

All that needs to be done to throwing is to raise the PT (powerThrow) of all low tier throwing. I would say raise it by 2, and raise top tier throwing by 1.  This fixs the spam of people just getting throwing because its sooo easy to fit into their build. If you take away the super free entry to throwing less people will spam javs and darts. I mean 3 pt for jav is way to low.

Why throwing dosnt need a nerf
people cry(2handers/pole-arm user most of the time) that it isn’t fair that u can 1 shot people with throwing lances.
Frist off that isn’t true, you can’t 1 shot most people until you have 9-10 pt which means you need 27 str. The fact that you need that much means you’re going to be a str build and in truth with 9-10 ps you can 1 shot people anyways with a bec or longaxe.

People say you can spam throwing?
Yes you can, but not in high tier throwing, only low tier throwing can you spam(darts,stars,rocks)
mid tier cant spam (javs,throwing axes)
high tier spam? no way!(throwing spears-lances)

So if it’s the spam the dev want to fix they should find a way to fix low tier throwing without nerfing high tier throwing.

[Gorath]

Why throwing dosnt need a nerf
people cry(2handers/pole-arm user most of the time) that it isn’t fair that u can 1 shot people with throwing lances.
Frist off that isn’t true, you can’t 1 shot most people until you have 9-10 pt which means you need 27 str. The fact that you need that much means you’re going to be a str build and in truth with 9-10 ps you can 1 shot people anyways with a bec or longaxe.

The problem with your argument is that a bec or longaxe (or any 2her sword, they can all one-shot the average build) can be blocked.  That throwing lance cannot be blocked except by a shield.

I was always a ranged/melee hybrid of some sort.  Gorath was a notorious throwing spear user pre-patch (7 PT) for my hoplite look.  However the issue people have is with any ranged weapon 1-shotting someone as it's only blockable by a shield.  Headshots are ok for 1-shot kills, but no ranged weapon (for the sake of gameplay) should ever 1-shot anyone with a body shot.  Bows can't do it, x-bows can't do it anymore, throwing is the only ranged attack left capable of 1-shotting people with body hits and THAT is what needs nerfing.

[MountedRhader]

Foot shotted with a war dart..
Nuff said.

[Boss_Awesome]

I don't see how someone would be able to throw 3 axes in the time it takes a guy to shoot 1 arrow.  I think throwing would be fine if they just lowered the throwing speed to be around the same as it is for archers.  Throwing would have the advantage over archery in the damage category, which should be kept the same.  And throwing lances should be nerfed or removed.  The damage is stupid high.  If someone can one shot with the other throwing weapons then i think that is fine though.

[Native_ATS]

The problem with your argument is that a bec or longaxe (or any 2her sword, they can all one-shot the average build) can be blocked.  That throwing lance cannot be blocked except by a shield.

I was always a ranged/melee hybrid of some sort.  Gorath was a notorious throwing spear user pre-patch (7 PT) for my hoplite look.  However the issue people have is with any ranged weapon 1-shotting someone as it's only blockable by a shield.  Headshots are ok for 1-shot kills, but no ranged weapon (for the sake of gameplay) should ever 1-shot anyone with a body shot.  Bows can't do it, x-bows can't do it anymore, throwing is the only ranged attack left capable of 1-shotting people with body hits and THAT is what needs nerfing.

ponys can 1 shot people and you cant block it unless you have a sheild. You can not block the maul, or long maul and thos can 1 shot.
xbows still can 1 shot people(though not like befor)
axes, swords can be used over and over again well lances can be used 2 times,
I belive throwing to be the counter to cav and 2 handers, and i dont want it nerfed if it is part of the blances, i dont mind if low teir gets a hit because low tier throwing is op at higher lvls. If mauls where taken out would the game still be the same? i dont think it would, and i feel without throwing it will be the same. Its hard to hit with the lance, people can just move around and let the lance thrower waste his 2 shots, or bum a lvl 1 sheild laugh as he waste his lances to brake it.

[Native_ATS]

I don't see how someone would be able to throw 3 axes in the time it takes a guy to shoot 1 arrow.  I think throwing would be fine if they just lowered the throwing speed to be around the same as it is for archers.  Throwing would have the advantage over archery in the damage category, which should be kept the same.  And throwing lances should be nerfed or removed.  The damage is stupid high.  If someone can one shot with the other throwing weapons then i think that is fine though.

i think maybe you mean 2 axes, getting 3 axes off well the bowmen shots 1 arrows is fail on the bowman part, but being so close to a thrower is even a bigger fail lol
i think the speed should be lowered on low tier, but not on high tier throwing items,  i cant throw lances faster then a bow, i tryed and it dosent work.
bows have range, aim, and speed over throwing. Throwing dose have damg tho.

[Magikarp]

ponys can 1 shot people and you cant block it unless you have a sheild. You can not block the maul, or long maul and thos can 1 shot.
xbows still can 1 shot people(though not like befor)
axes, swords can be used over and over again well lances can be used 2 times,
I belive throwing to be the counter to cav and 2 handers, and i dont want it nerfed if it is part of the blances, i dont mind if low teir gets a hit because low tier throwing is op at higher lvls. If mauls where taken out would the game still be the same? i dont think it would, and i feel without throwing it will be the same. Its hard to hit with the lance, people can just move around and let the lance thrower waste his 2 shots, or bum a lvl 1 sheild laugh as he waste his lances to brake it.

1. Couching is mcuh easier to avoid, the horseman puts himself in danger.
2. Full str builds cant oneshot with the weapons you mentioned.
3. Crushtrough negates much damage, so no oneshotting there.

Throwing is too accessable and powerful for hybrids. Everyone runs around lobbing a weapon, at almost no cost, most don't even have that much wpf or nothing at all. Only at the cost of accuracy, damage stays the same.
Fix: make wpf necessary to do damage.

Full str throwers are ridiculously powerful and accurate. Not certain: powerthrow adds accuracy. I've heard it does, but haven't tested myself. I think it does.
Fix: Above mentioned wpf change and a nerf to powerthrow.

In my opinion, this would balance throwing.

[Native_ATS]

1. Couching is mcuh easier to avoid, the horseman puts himself in danger.
2. Full str builds cant oneshot with the weapons you mentioned.
3. Crushtrough negates much damage, so no oneshotting there.

Throwing is too accessable and powerful for hybrids. Everyone runs around lobbing a weapon, at almost no cost, most don't even have that much wpf or nothing at all. Only at the cost of accuracy, damage stays the same.
Fix: make wpf necessary to do damage.

Full str throwers are ridiculously powerful and accurate. Not certain: powerthrow adds accuracy. I've heard it does, but haven't tested myself. I think it does.
Fix: Above mentioned wpf change and a nerf to powerthrow.

In my opinion, this would balance throwing.

1 ponys get away alot after there attack, as a slow thrower dosent
2 Yes they can, u see goretooth kill in 1 hit, and he isnt all str, i kill 80% of the time in 1 hit with a long axe or a lance thrust(10pt gose along way)
3 i use a long maul and it takes 1-2 shot at most (again 10 pt gose along way lol)

i do love you ideas on wpf, throwing should be base way more on wpf then pt, am sure if wpf was need less people would spam pt instead of IF
its just a tad hard to get lots of wpf since throwing needs str, but am sure it can be done, i never thrown with out 105 wpf

[Mouse]

I've been killed by throwing weapons but never felt they problematic. I kill throwers more than they kill me. I'm also smart enough to bring a big shield.

However I do agree that if there is a problem it's probably in the low-tier throwing weapons because their ammo counts are so high. The second issue would be PT increasing accuracy rather than WPF, which was one of the original problems with archery in cRPG. All in all, war darts are a bit too scary in cRPG.

[bruce]

I'm also smart enough to bring a big shield.

Well, yes. Everyone should use a huscarl since it's the only shield which protect somewhat vs throwing spam, since they break my shield (knightly heather shield) in two hits with axes and crap.

[Gorath]

ponys can 1 shot people and you cant block it unless you have a sheild. You can not block the maul, or long maul and thos can 1 shot.

Melee range, melee range and melee range.  Apples and oranges here.  I specifically said RANGED weapons shouldn't be capable of 1-shotting anyone.  Melee range you're in range of danger yourself, with range you are not.  Risk vs reward.  Range is low to zero risk for high to extreme rewards.  That's where the balance comes into play.

xbows still can 1 shot people(though not like befor)

No.  With a balanced build (18 str, 3 IF) an heirloomed sniper-xbow only deals 75% of my hp bar with a body shot.  X-bows do not 1-shot anyone anymore from full hp - 0 unless that person is a peasant with no armor.  2-shot, yup which is fine given the slow reload speed.  It can also 1-shot headshot people, which is fine as well.  Only high level throwing weapons are capable of fully 100%-0% hp 1-shotting people anymore.

axes, swords can be used over and over again well lances can be used 2 times,

Throwing can also be used an infinite amount of times as long as you pick up your missed shots or the missed shots of other people.

I belive throwing to be the counter to cav

That would be pikes

and 2 handers,

That's all ranged

and i dont want it nerfed

Obviously

If mauls where taken out would the game still be the same?

Mauls are fine and are balanced to justify their crush mechanic (super slow, short range.  The long maul is a bit long for the mechanic but is amazingly spammable if you get in close due to it's extremely slow speed).  As far as the broken crush weapons (heirloomed lolmaces and such) yeah the game will be better without them as they are.

and i feel without throwing it will be the same.

Throwing wouldn't be removed, it just shouldn't 1-shot.  There's a large difference.

Its hard to hit with the lance,

No, no it's not.  I've done more than enough throwing and only recently have I dropped throwing completely in order to go with x-bows because:
1)  Everyone and their brother is a thrower now which makes it lame rather than a fun niche
2)  X-bows are the weakest ranged weapon and have the most style points currently.

people can just move around and let the lance thrower waste his 2 shots

Same can be said of any ranged, or melee for that matter, weapon.

or bum a lvl 1 sheild laugh as he waste his lances to brake it.

A level 1 shield will break in 1 lance and you know this well Native.  I understand you love throwing, I do too (other than how FotM it's gotten) but look outside your preferred playstyle and see the bigger picture.  Ranged weapons should never 1-shot unless it's a headshot.  Period.

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

Ranged weapons should never 1-shot unless it's a headshot.  Period.

-goretooth

THIS. This is why I dislike throwing, because I simply cannot defend myself. "Hurrr you should have a sheild" is not responce to that, by the way; everyone shouldn't have to conform to someone elses play style just to stay alive. Throwing is silly right now, and needs to be fixed.

I made a post about how to fix throwing in the suggestions forum. Basically, throwing should act AS A SUPPLEMENT TO THE AVERAGE INFANTRY GUY'S ARSENAL. If you want to specialize in throwing weapons, then you're different than the average infantry guy obviously. The problem is that throwing weapons are currently spam weapons, you can't fucking aim. Throwing with accuracy at any distance is very very difficult, but it's currently worth it right now because thrown weapons do ridiculous amounts of damage, and you can throw them faster than most archers can shoot. You can also throw on the move.

All of those things contribute to a spam attitude among throwers. It's ridiculous.

FIX THE PROBLEM by making thrown weapons non-spamtastic. Make them much more accurate, but make the rate of fire slower. Make it so that thrown weapons are really inaccurate while moving. Decrease the amount of axes/javelines/loldarts/lances a thrower has. Because throwers will actually be able to hit what they're aiming at, you can decrease the damage throwing weapons do. Instead of relying on chance and massive damage, they can rely on skill and timing. They'll have less items to throw, so they should actually focus on conserving ammunition and waiting for the right moment to throw.

Read my post in the suggestion forum.

[EponiCo]

Let's look at this way, what does counter throwers?
We've ruled out 2h and cavalry.
Shield ... well, after 2 axes my nonround shield was gone, so my only option is to charge him and never let go even though I'm fighting against a 2h/pole/1h+shield with almost the same wpf/stats as me with a puny 1h, and just pray I never get backstabbed. Possible, yes, but counter, no.
Archer or crossbow? Well, thrower can carry a shield, shoot faster and do more damage...

[bruce]

Let's look at this way, what does counter throwers?

Throwing, or if he doesn't carry a shield, archery, provided it's at long distance.

Which says it all.

[Lordark]

Throwers suck.
They need to be penalized moar.



theres my 2 cents.

(removed comments about Native)
-In fact I try to kill him as soon as I see him ne ways.