cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Bonze on February 20, 2011, 12:52:07 pm

Title: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Bonze on February 20, 2011, 12:52:07 pm
any protection ?
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: [ptx] on February 20, 2011, 12:52:54 pm
Any cheats?
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Torp on February 20, 2011, 12:58:09 pm
Any cheats?

+1
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Bonze on February 20, 2011, 01:05:03 pm
Any cheats?
naive approach..
This mod is the first online game in history without cheats ??
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Krakatit on February 20, 2011, 01:06:20 pm
naive approach..
This mod is the first online game in history without cheats ??

Well can you name on possible cheat that cannot be discovered at first glance which can be used here?
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: UrLukur on February 20, 2011, 01:20:28 pm
Well can you name on possible cheat that cannot be discovered at first glance which can be used here?

afk bot? but those people are banned already.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Bonze on February 20, 2011, 01:25:33 pm
Well can you name on possible cheat that cannot be discovered at first glance which can be used here?

Wallhack -    xbows, my old friendchers, throwing
Autoblock  -  melee
Macros/bots-   leechers best friends ..simple forward moving scripts..
Goldhacks/exploits
 



Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Krakatit on February 20, 2011, 01:37:57 pm
Wallhack - you can look behind corner without one
Autoblock - impossible to make
macro/bots - easily recognizable
goldhacks - you need to hack crpg database and thats not a cheat
exploits - thats not cheating too because you are using system bug
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Lord_Panos on February 20, 2011, 01:40:50 pm
the only hack u can create is aimbot..but that will be very noticable..
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Joxer on February 20, 2011, 01:43:46 pm
Not. Nothing flyes straight and takes time to reach target. That kind of aimbot is a no go.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Krakatit on February 20, 2011, 01:54:51 pm
Yeah it was discussed before. There is too many factors which change a lot when you shoot from a bow.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Leiknir on February 20, 2011, 02:13:54 pm
I think if you play over steam, VAC is enabled.
But just join the duel server, they all use autoblock hacks there :o

Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Bonze on February 20, 2011, 02:37:18 pm
Wallhack - you can look behind corner without one
Autoblock - impossible to make
macro/bots - easily recognizable
goldhacks - you need to hack crpg database and thats not a cheat
exploits - thats not cheating too because you are using system bug

huuu what?? You can not look behind  houses/hills/walls.
The JP crpg server  have fine NPCs bots with good blocking skill ...
Easy recognizable?? I am talking about powerfull tools like ac tools.
Thats incorrect ...you dont need to hack the database. Send wrong information to the database, every round x5 = jackpot....

Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Mala on February 20, 2011, 03:14:08 pm
Not. Nothing flyes straight and takes time to reach target. That kind of aimbot is a no go.

Really? Speed of the projectile and target are given, the flight path is quite constant and the range can be estimated by the program.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: UrLukur on February 20, 2011, 03:16:47 pm
Really? Speed of the projectile and target are given, the flight path is quite constant and the range can be estimated by the program.

Dodges of target too?
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Krakatit on February 20, 2011, 03:19:23 pm
And you must consider accuracy...
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Ganon on February 20, 2011, 03:19:44 pm
I think if you play over steam, VAC is enabled.
But just join the duel server, they all use autoblock hacks there :o

Only on VAC enabled servers, which crpg aren't. An aimbot would be hard to make (must take into account projectile speed, distance, gravity), and it seems this game is not popular enough to get that kind of attention. Autoblock needs to tell the difference between a faint and a real attack, and how do you attack with an autoblocking cheat, when to block and when to swing ? Won't really work. There's an autoblock in the game already, it's called "shield".

I would be worried about wallhacks, camera hacks, speedhacks mainly. Maybe teleport hacks if the game is coded so bad it's on a darkfall level.

If you know of a cheat, post it.

Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: zagibu on February 20, 2011, 04:57:36 pm
Really? Speed of the projectile and target are given, the flight path is quite constant and the range can be estimated by the program.

Still very, very hard to implement. Wallhack isn't too useful, because you have no wall-piercing projectiles. I don't think the game would change a lot, if 30% of the playerbase used wallhacks. Autoblocker sounds doable, though. Simply hook the animations, and if someone close to you looking in your general direction swings, do the proper block.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Joxer on February 20, 2011, 05:05:11 pm
I've used a wallhack. I even got video to proof it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blqmXD1SOQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blqmXD1SOQw)
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: zagibu on February 20, 2011, 05:14:07 pm
Something must be wrong with your eyes, that looks like regular Turin Castle to me.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Xant on February 20, 2011, 05:16:28 pm
Really? Speed of the projectile and target are given, the flight path is quite constant and the range can be estimated by the program.

The speed of the target aren't given. Firstly, there are different amount of athletics - then there are the weight reductions to speed. Then you'd have to take into account different WPFs, different bows, and not to mention the player moving erratically. And how would the program calculate the range so accurately, anyways? It'd have to be /perfect/ and be moving constantly /just/ right to lead enough and be high enough and so on to do anything. It would have to be one helluva aimbot, being able to take insanely many modifiers into account.. and even at best it would still be shitty because no machine can account for human movement on the target's side.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Mala on February 20, 2011, 05:45:16 pm
Ok, in my communist past i have learnt this in school, in the case of an imperialistic invasion.

You dont need 100% accuracy sice the human body is a quite large target and the the speed difference is not big enough.
Range, no problem when i can do this with my eyes, then the computer should do this with ease. Again, you dont need 100% precision, the common human is tall enough to give you some leeway.

Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Xant on February 20, 2011, 06:04:10 pm
No, you don't need 100% accuracy but at long range the target isn't big - and if the accuracy is off, chances are you'll miss, especially since you don't have 100% precision in M&B.

Uhh...? It's very different to judge the range by yourself and the aimbot having to access the gamedata to find out the exact range, and then make complex calculations and modify the aim based on range. The speed difference definitely is big enough.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: UrLukur on February 20, 2011, 06:07:29 pm
Ok, in my communist past i have learnt this in school, in the case of an imperialistic invasion.

You dont need 100% accuracy sice the human body is a quite large target and the the speed difference is not big enough.
Range, no problem when i can do this with my eyes, then the computer should do this with ease. Again, you dont need 100% precision, the common human is tall enough to give you some leeway.

How's that give you any advantage over manual aiming ?
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: EponiCo on February 20, 2011, 06:14:41 pm
It doesn't. But not everyone can manual aim.  :lol:
And yeah, it's possible, like wall/maphack even autoblock afaik (duh, it's in the game already).
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: UrLukur on February 20, 2011, 06:16:27 pm
It's like using autoblock and getting killed by single feint. Awesome.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Seawied on February 21, 2011, 07:29:42 am
Autoblock - impossible to make

no, its quite possible. Actually, it would probably the easiest one to make aside from wall-hacks. Autoblock is already coded, all you would have to do is trick the server into reading it as "enabled" in-game.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Furax on February 21, 2011, 07:35:22 am
There is some form of aimbot(more like aim assistance) I could see working here.. the area your arrow would/could land would be highlighted and would expand with the crosshair.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: weight on February 21, 2011, 09:41:01 am
I'm pretty sure that the archers that top the score board have somehow got HEAT SEEKING ARROWS hacked into the game.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: MrExxc on February 21, 2011, 10:34:10 am
I'm pretty sure that the archers that top the score board have somehow got HEAT SEEKING ARROWS hacked into the game.

Jambi? :P

Seriously, are there really auto block hacks? That would explain a lot, sometimes I feel like I'm facing a machine...
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: weight on February 21, 2011, 11:54:17 am
Jambi? :P

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: v/onMega on February 21, 2011, 12:20:14 pm
Everything can be coded.

But imagine this: Autoblocker v 1.0 works. What would it look like?

You start feinting infront of the specific "user", no matter what feint, the block direction would be right.

+

The "user" would be engaged by multiple enemies. By the help of an autoblocker he should always perfectly judge which attack to block first + he would change blocking direction at a non human speed (without any mistakes ofc)

Atleast then it would clear that smbdy hacks.

Cant see the point of such a tool really helping smbdy without making him easy to spot as a hacker.


Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Vygar on February 21, 2011, 07:14:45 pm
Jambi? :P

Seriously, are there really auto block hacks? That would explain a lot, sometimes I feel like I'm facing a machine...

I've had the same experience.  There were a few times where someone appeared to just be extremely good at manual blocking but there have been others where strikes have been blocked at impossible angles so consistantly that I was questioning the presence of a "hack". 
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Xant on February 21, 2011, 07:19:27 pm
I've never seen anyone suspicious... or if someone's using autoblock, then they suck rather splendidly and in that case let them use it.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 21, 2011, 11:29:49 pm
Well I don't think anyone hacks on NA in any form from what I can see. If they do then they are pretty bad.
The notion of an autoblocker bot being better than a human is actually funny to me anyways, an autoblocking kid would never be able to attack properly and would never chamber or do anything fancy. They'd be worse than a real player.
Besides if you can't last 2 minutes without getting hit once in single player sparring vs a companion (ai set to good, speed on fastest) then you can't last in a duel in CRPG for more than 10 seconds.

Just like how you can train yourself to chamber every hit in a spar like a normal block, only to go into crpg and die to every held attack thrown at you. People are just really complex organic machines :).

Oh, and humans can predict better on leads than an aimbot. After watching a player for a second or so to see a few dodges, you can often see a loose pattern and shoot where they're going to be. It's easy but since it is not an actual solid pattern even a complex bot won't pick it up and will just blind lead. However, the majority of players are so mind numb they won't even bother predicting -.- "lol xd just spam"
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: IG_Saint on February 22, 2011, 12:01:57 am
I've never seen anyone suspicious...

Except paul/urist. That's about the only one that I could believe it if you said he used block hacks.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: UrLukur on February 22, 2011, 12:08:01 am
Except paul/urist. That's about the only one that I could believe it if you said he used block hacks.

He made mistakes from time to time. But he is still best manual blocker in the game.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Allers on February 22, 2011, 12:16:18 am
When beta was still going on, people had infinite health hacks but got banned, I think the cheat protection is admins :D
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Elmetiacos on February 22, 2011, 01:20:10 am
Everything can be coded.

But imagine this: Autoblocker v 1.0 works. What would it look like?

You start feinting infront of the specific "user", no matter what feint, the block direction would be right.

+

The "user" would be engaged by multiple enemies. By the help of an autoblocker he should always perfectly judge which attack to block first + he would change blocking direction at a non human speed (without any mistakes ofc)

Atleast then it would clear that smbdy hacks.

Cant see the point of such a tool really helping smbdy without making him easy to spot as a hacker.
You're assuming that the hacker is stupid and will use autoblock all the time. Same with aimbots; the hacker would use it when it wouldn't be spotted such as a short or medium range crossbow shot where the trajectory is close enough to straight that it wouldn't arouse too much suspicion. I doubt there are any aimbotters in crpg or Native... I wonder if some are using what they used to call "Speed You Circles" in VtMR, or their equivalent.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Krakatit on February 22, 2011, 03:18:19 am
When beta was still going on, people had infinite health hacks but got banned, I think the cheat protection is admins :D

Wasnt that a bug? :D
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Seawied on February 22, 2011, 04:57:00 am
Well I don't think anyone hacks on NA in any form from what I can see. If they do then they are pretty bad.
The notion of an autoblocker bot being better than a human is actually funny to me anyways, an autoblocking kid would never be able to attack properly and would never chamber or do anything fancy. They'd be worse than a real player.
Besides if you can't last 2 minutes without getting hit once in single player sparring vs a companion (ai set to good, speed on fastest) then you can't last in a duel in CRPG for more than 10 seconds.

Just like how you can train yourself to chamber every hit in a spar like a normal block, only to go into crpg and die to every held attack thrown at you. People are just really complex organic machines :).

Oh, and humans can predict better on leads than an aimbot. After watching a player for a second or so to see a few dodges, you can often see a loose pattern and shoot where they're going to be. It's easy but since it is not an actual solid pattern even a complex bot won't pick it up and will just blind lead. However, the majority of players are so mind numb they won't even bother predicting -.- "lol xd just spam"


This is my opinion as well. If there are hackers on NA, they aren't doing well enough to get noticed, so why bother.


I think the main reason that we haven't seen a wave of hackers though, is Warband's low keyness on the market. Everyone is trying to hack black ops and the latest carbon copy FPS game. Not enough people really play warband to attract enough attention.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Mouse on February 22, 2011, 05:36:51 am
The most conceivable hack for Warband would be to enable the built-in autoblock on a server that does not permit it. But the autoblock in Warband doesn't actually press the block button for you, so there's still quite a lot of potential for human error due to feints, delayed attacks, foot work, multiple incoming attacks (which I think might actually confuse the autoblocker completely), etc.

Consider that some "hoplites" like Walt manage to get a lot of kills when players only need to block ONE direction to completely counter them and it's not hard to see that even an autoblock hack won't save a frighteningly large percentage of the cRPG community from being obliterated by better players in melee.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Franklin on February 22, 2011, 10:07:39 am
I think you are all missing one which is a weapon speed hack. 
When I first started on the Native servers I used to have 'wtf!' moments when a 2 hander would go through people like a blender.  I put it down to me being a newb.  Now I go hmmmmm :?

But as hacks go, if you increased weapon speed by a couple of notches, just enough to give an advantage it would probably go undetected. You would always strike/block first and die enough so nobody would suspect.  A couple of points on damage would probably pass everyone by as well.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: v/onMega on February 22, 2011, 10:40:27 am
You're assuming that the hacker is stupid and will use autoblock all the time. Same with aimbots; the hacker would use it when it wouldn't be spotted such as a short or medium range crossbow shot where the trajectory is close enough to straight that it wouldn't arouse too much suspicion. I doubt there are any aimbotters in crpg or Native... I wonder if some are using what they used to call "Speed You Circles" in VtMR, or their equivalent.

Yes, you have to assume that he would use it all the time.
Simply bcoz there is a small number of outstanding players that get a percentage of 80 ~ 90 % blocks without hacks.
What would be the point of hacking/toggling on and off then? Getting as good as the best players? (Sounds worthless to me)

Btw, ye, paul, chimp, phyrex, bjord are all machines of their own kind....
Actually the only ppl I ever came up with the thought : Block / Speedhack xD
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: BlackMilk on February 22, 2011, 11:07:29 am
But just join the duel server, they all use autoblock hacks there :o
:D  :twisted:
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Seawied on February 22, 2011, 06:58:09 pm
I think you are all missing one which is a weapon speed hack. 
When I first started on the Native servers I used to have 'wtf!' moments when a 2 hander would go through people like a blender.  I put it down to me being a newb.  Now I go hmmmmm :?

But as hacks go, if you increased weapon speed by a couple of notches, just enough to give an advantage it would probably go undetected. You would always strike/block first and die enough so nobody would suspect.  A couple of points on damage would probably pass everyone by as well.

ya, I seriously doubt there is a "weapon speed hack."

Out of all of the ones listed, this would be the least probable and would require the most work. We would be seeing hordes of auto-block hackers before a weapon speed hack would be implemented. Plus, I would have noticed it.

c-rpg allows people to get much higher attack speeds than in native. You just have to have the right build.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Waffle on February 22, 2011, 07:15:51 pm
There was a dude on one the siege servers bout a month ago who had god mode (or something similar) was just standing there by one of the doors lolhammer spamming was hit 100+ times until he was eventually banned. if its aimbot u wont be doutin urself, his crosshairs will be jumping around faster than u can blink and autoaims cant lead so just straff in one direction. people should be more worried about wall hacks cause theyre harder to pick out if the hackers anygood.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Christo on February 22, 2011, 07:26:01 pm
And I saw this yesterday. A floating player :shock:

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

He was floating around there. I was like  :shock:
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Seawied on February 22, 2011, 07:48:03 pm
There was a dude on one the siege servers bout a month ago who had god mode (or something similar) was just standing there by one of the doors lolhammer spamming was hit 100+ times until he was eventually banned.

The infinite life bit was a known bug to c-rpg, not necessarily a hack
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: EponiCo on February 22, 2011, 08:30:09 pm
Wasn't there a weapon speed hack in Warband Beta? Maybe I'm confusing it but somehow you could edit weapons. It's fixed now though.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Maira on February 22, 2011, 08:33:26 pm
There was a dude on one the siege servers bout a month ago who had god mode (or something similar) was just standing there by one of the doors lolhammer spamming was hit 100+ times until he was eventually banned. if its aimbot u wont be doutin urself, his crosshairs will be jumping around faster than u can blink and autoaims cant lead so just straff in one direction. people should be more worried about wall hacks cause theyre harder to pick out if the hackers anygood.

This is a known glitch, I'm not sure if it also occurs in siege, but on battle it does did. Somehow your character stop losing losing health when hit, haven't seen it happen lately though, my guess is that it was fixed.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Delro on February 23, 2011, 08:50:54 pm
The floating happened to me once. Someone popped a siege ladder over a building with a peaked roof, and I walked off the ladder about halfway up to the peak. As long as I remained over the surface of the roof, I was floating about 10-15 feet above it. Once I walked over where the roof's edge would be, I fell to an ignominious death  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Seawied on February 23, 2011, 09:17:28 pm
Wasn't there a weapon speed hack in Warband Beta? Maybe I'm confusing it but somehow you could edit weapons. It's fixed now though.

Weapon speed hack? if there was, it wasn't on the NA side. I can't speak for the EU admins, but I know for a fact that this was never recorded or mentioned in our records.

The weapons editing glitch was in the beta, but thats a bit different. There were several restraints on it, and it had to have been a native weapon recognized by the server. In otherwords, you couldn't take a katana and edit its attack speed to over 9000. If you brought the katana to the beta server, it would have the same stats as a regular katana in native.

This bug was fixed a long time ago though, well before c-rpg was a twinkle in chadz' eye.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Death_Dealer on February 24, 2011, 12:47:46 am
And I saw this yesterday. A floating player :shock:

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

He was floating around there. I was like  :shock:

i was specting that too, its nothing about cheat, guy was stucked between barrels its just a bug he was teleporting back to the warrels after floating again and again.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Furax on February 24, 2011, 03:02:32 am
Ah yes I remember the immortal bug, also saw a horse with it once.. Well looked more like a bloody mutated porcupine with all the arrows sticking out :lol: no kidding must have been like 60 arrows inn it=P
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Bonze on March 11, 2011, 09:40:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-beJIDOVeQ

Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Seawied on March 11, 2011, 09:51:59 pm
That is just someone tying a feint macro to a mouse. That does not increase his attack speed beyond what is possible by non-cheating methods.

Macros like this would have pretty limited use in real combat. Feints play mind games on opponents. If all your feints stop super early in the swing, then its not going to be as effective as a skilled feinter. A good feinter will fake an attack down to the last second then switch to a different one.

Is the macro outlined in the video a cheat? Sure. Is it game breaking? No.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: EponiCo on March 12, 2011, 02:21:02 am
Well, there's some macros that might work well and be used (*) but this isn't very useful imo.

(*) I'll tell you for 5$.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Kalam on March 12, 2011, 02:35:13 am
This is a known glitch, I'm not sure if it also occurs in siege, but on battle it does did. Somehow your character stop losing losing health when hit, haven't seen it happen lately though, my guess is that it was fixed.

I know a few people who can produce that glitch on command. It has something to do with ladders, similar to teleportation.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Paroxysm on March 13, 2011, 12:22:19 am
That macro mouse I could see giving a nice advantage in melee. You could macro the individual block directions, so you never accidentally block in the wrong direction due to erroneous mouse movement, and it could use the smallest mouse movement possible to block - keeping your camera well centered even during heavy blocking.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: UrLukur on March 13, 2011, 01:45:07 am
That macro mouse I could see giving a nice advantage in melee. You could macro the individual block directions, so you never accidentally block in the wrong direction due to erroneous mouse movement, and it could use the smallest mouse movement possible to block - keeping your camera well centered even during heavy blocking.

It's not cheat. Besides, players can block fine enough without it.
Title: Re: cheat protection in this mod?
Post by: Vanular on March 18, 2011, 08:13:51 pm
Autoblock - impossible to make

Well, auto-block works fine in single-player. Perhaps a hack to enable it in multi-player?

BUT I think if cheats increasing skills were possible we would've probably encountered obvious use of it already.