cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Marblecake on February 19, 2011, 04:27:46 pm
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Hi there!
I've now read a couple of threads where the importance of feinting was stressed. I've even see people do it.
Could someone explain to me - and possibly a couple of other noobs out there who don't know either - how feinting works exactly?
I shall award AwesomeBar points to whomever is helpful in this regard :)
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Attack, Tap block button quickly, attack again.
That is your basic feint.
Now go to a duel server and experiment a little:)
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Feinting is when you you release your attack and you stop it before it lands. You do it by using block when your attack is released.
You can stop your attack only in first half of the blow. You cant do this with unbalanced weapons.
This is the basic idea of feinting.
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Awesome, both of you get +1!
Seriously guys, thanks a lot!
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Feinting is when you you release your attack and you stop it before it lands. You do it by using block when your attack is released.
You can stop your attack only in first half of the blow. You cant do this with unbalanced weapons.
This is the basic idea of feinting.
thats not true i was able to do it with a great maul, just slow as hell and doesn't surprise any one... well not enough atleast
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thats not true i was able to do it with a great maul, just slow as hell and doesn't surprise any one... well not enough atleast
Well sometimes you can feint with unbalanced weapons but mostly it wont work or it is so clumsy that you cant fool anyone with it :)
I can change my statement to that it is highly recommended to not use unbalanced weapons to learn feinting.
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I will add the OPest feint possible :
swing right (or left), cancel at the point where it should touch your opponent (or really close to the point), and swing left (or right).
Your opponent will think your attack was blocked or bounced off, then you can hit him. Really good timing needed and only when your opponent is on the defensive (like every feinting pattern).
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To understand how combat works in M&B look up my long post http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1545.0.html It explains how the mechanics of melee work within the game. Understanding the dynamics of melee should stop you from making many of the most common mistakes.
Cheers and good fighting.
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Simple. Feinting works by utilizing the fear of death. Your opponent thus tries to block your feints, and makes him unsure of which one will be an actual attack.
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I will add the OPest feint possible :
swing right (or left), cancel at the point where it should touch your opponent (or really close to the point), and swing left (or right).
Your opponent will think your attack was blocked or bounced off, then you can hit him. Really good timing needed and only when your opponent is on the defensive (like every feinting pattern).
You mean the most common and easiest to block feint... >.>
Here are some feint combinations you might want to try, from Hasek's dueling guide on the Taleworlds forums:
"Notation: O = Overhead swing
L = Left-to-right swing
R = Right-to-left swing
T = Thrust
[X]f = An attack in direction X that is Feinted
DF = Deep Feint
{X1, X2 ... Xn} vs. {Y1, Y2 ... Yn} = X is the set of attacks you perform. Your opponent performs the set of attacks Y.
Disclaimer: Duels are obviously very fluid and situational, the following series of attacks are those that I have found to be the most effective in my personal dueling experience.
Of - L or Of - R : I refer to this simple attack as "The Akmar". It is an excellent attack because it forces an opponent to quickly upblock and then leftblock. The common result is an accidental downblock because the upblock naturally puts the manual blocker's mouse out of its natural position.
Lf - Rf - T : This series causes your opponents hand to begin a natural left-to-right movement and makes a sudden downblock difficult to execute.
DF - T - T : A deadly combination attack - Thrusts are some of the hardest attacks to parry and disguising them with a Deep Feint makes them extremely effective and allows you to finish a duel very quickly.
Tf - Tf - R : This series attempts to commit your opponent to a downblock or leftblock, remember to turn into the attack and move to the right of the opposing duelist to bait your opponent into turning his parry away from your attack.
L, R , or O vs. T : Never perform a standard attack while your opponent has a thrust chambered. The thrust is extremely fast and long ranged. It is also very difficult to reactively block thrusts, and you will not be able to transition in time from any other swing to a downblock in time to prevent your untimely impaling. Advanced duelists know how to acticipate thrusts and know that they need to worry most about thrusting attacks during the opening of a duel.
T - T : Simple and effective, but requires some footwork and opportunism to guarantee success. A duelist circling his opponent thrusts a true attack and scores a non-killing blow. The duelist, rather than fading back after the thrust, rushes his opponent to gain positioning and immediately thrusts again. Performed correctly, this attack is almost a guaranteed kill because of the speed inherent to the thrust."
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,118804.0.html
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Geezus, I don't know where to start with handing out points :mrgreen:
@Formless: I actually read your post yesterday and found it to be extremely helpful. It has drastically changed my playstyle and I actually think it is one of the most insightful and helpful posts here. Thank you for your time in posting it.
@Xant: Awesome! You surely are a great man...although a Merc, but what the hell :wink:
@Butan: you're telling me this NOW? :lol:
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You mean the most common and easiest to block feint... >.>
When done with the most masterful timing and footwork, it is the only feint that can cause the defender to think he really blocked, then chambering the "real" swing make it like the "fake" swing just passed through; thus you can call it a kind of "faked lag" weapon animation. Very deadly with fast weapon.
The feint combinations you posted are based on mouse miscalculation and/or lack of reflex, which is something else.
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No, Butan.
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Well, Butan is kind of right, but the problem with his feint is that some people block twice anyway before attacking, and against those, it won't work.
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Nah. There's no block sound and there's no feint in the feint. Nothing easier than blocking a simple left-right.
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Well, I don't think you can speak with the voice of the public here, since you also consider 10 blocks in a row followed by a chamber attack as easy. It's cool if we have elite players like you, but the average cRPG player does indeed fall for the left - right feint, and he also can't block 10 times in a row and follow it with a chamber attack.
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You cant do this with unbalanced weapons.
Yes you can.
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There's no block sound.
Yep thats the big downside of this but im more a visual person so I can fall for it.
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Ok so if you use a shield then the least expected attack people will see is the overhand. Most people just don't do it so overhand stab combo is the way to go. For 2h/polearm fighting shielder with husc and a good sword don't fight them unless your really fast. If your slow retreat to friends :arrow: 8-)
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As far as I know unbalanced means you get a speed penalty if you dont hit the enemy. Fainting with long maul works perfectly, sometimes its even useful :D
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Unbalanced also means you cant feint as deep as other weapon, making it hard to feint efficiently.
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Nah. There's no block sound and there's no feint in the feint. Nothing easier than blocking a simple left-right.
True, and that is very avarage player speakig here. Usually, feinting consisting of side swings only are the easiest to read and block, at least from my experience.
What I think important is to always add variety into your feints. There will be feints that you will master easily, and in the heat of the duel, you will instinctively use them often. You need to always keep your cool to change the patterns a bit, so you can't be easily read.
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Unbalanced also means you cant feint as deep as other weapon, making it hard to feint efficiently.
This. My 2her uses the mancleaver as his primary weapon (and a sword of war when I get frustrated with the mancleaver in dueling). You can feint with it, but only in the very very beginning of the attack, unlike the sword of war (not unbalanced) where I can feint right as the weapon is about to touch the enemy player model. Unbalanced weapons mean that once your attack has gone past the first quarter or so of the animation you're pretty much committed to it and so if you need to stop it or emergency block due to a positioning change you're S.O.L. Balanced weapons don't suffer from this problem.
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i agree with xant; the left-to-right feint is the easiest to block, and i've always seen it that way.
unfortunately it has become my 'main' feint, so when i don't think about what i'm doing, i automaticly make the left-to-right feint and it gets blocked 199/200 times.
I've experienced that the easiest way to kill bad-medium players is with a sideswing feint followed by overhead attack. many unexperienced players cant block this, and it will also get through some of the more experienced players' blocks (althoguh not that often)
so if you're new, i suggest you try to practice this one.
the double overhead is also fine
another easy and, imo, usefull attack is the held attack. Instead of immediately releasing your attack, hold it for a sec or 2, most players attack by reflex as they know the amount of time it will take your weapon to reach their block, and they think it's their turn to attack, but as your attack is delayed, you hit him while he attacks.
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Be careful with overhead feints, you can sometimes be spammed...
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With long polearms with 2 attack directions, I found out that feinting stabs can be very devastating to your opponent, if you know what you doing, you can fool them easily.
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Be careful with overhead feints, you can sometimes be spammed...
Be careful with all feints,some oponents can spam if you are feinting too much.
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Be careful with all feints,some oponents can spam if you are feinting too much.
Yeah, if you feint every single attack, all your opponent needs to do is spam and he'll hit you. In general just don't follow patterns, be unpredictable. Normal attacks, feints, spam, holds and chambering are all valid tactics, so use all of them.
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Imho, Overhead feint to Left/Right swing works nice. For people who attack immediately after they block your attack it also works if you feint first then attack in the same direction quickly - these feints are hard to see.
I have also managed to feint first attack and execute the next that had clipped animation (swing was already half through when the first feint ended, so after the feint there was only the last half of the attack animation - also hard to block).
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Got a question.. :oops:
Is there 2 kind of feints still? The long and the short feint?
Also.. just to add one of my own tricks to this:
If you cancel a top strike with a right block, to many players this will look like a complete "miss" as your sword is in a similar position, of course its not a miss.
Another dueling trick that seems to get me lately is the encircling + slash from the "wrong side"
If you do a close encirclement to your right, keep hitting from your left.
As the enemy has to move his mouse to his left to keep facing you, strikes to his right (your left) can become tricky to block. This also works the other way around of course, and is perfectly timed when you accelerate to his side striking a millisecond after from the other side.
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If you do a close encirclement to your right, keep hitting from your left.
As the enemy has to move his mouse to his left to keep facing you, strikes to his right (your left) can become tricky to block. This also works the other way around of course, and is perfectly timed when you accelerate to his side striking a millisecond after from the other side.
I keep getting owned because of this :lol:
Even if I succeed at blocking it, I need to center my view, thus moving my mouse again and if the opponent keep spamming its fairly hard to have the upper hand without a lot of luck.