cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Teeth on October 09, 2011, 10:43:28 pm

Title: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Teeth on October 09, 2011, 10:43:28 pm
I just killed someone behind me with a side swing. Earlier active attacks have greatly reduced my fun playing this game, due to constantly being teamhit and combat being completely unpredictable.

If removing them is out of the question please think about reducing the effect so that I atleast only hit people in a 180 degree radius in front of me.

Also, the servers feel laggy and weird today. Perfect hits do nothing and some animations are only shown half. Anyone else feeling something like this or knows what causes it?

/RAGETHREAD

Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: MaHuD on October 09, 2011, 10:47:41 pm
Are you using a sword?
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: BranStark on October 09, 2011, 10:52:12 pm
Sorry, I think its much better now. IRL, you couldn't just swing wildly and expect to just go through your allies like they were ghosts or some stupid shit.

Just watch where you swing, pretty simple.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Teeth on October 09, 2011, 10:54:49 pm
Sorry, I think its much better now. IRL, you couldn't just swing wildly and expect to just go through your allies like they were ghosts or some stupid shit.

Just watch where you swing, pretty simple.
In real life you dont swing your sword like a bloody moron. Its exactly horizontal and vertical instead of using a situationally useful sideswing. Don't use realism arguments on swings man, just look at the bloody animations. I just teamkilled someone that wasnt even in my screen anymore. 
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: MaHuD on October 09, 2011, 11:45:06 pm
What weapon are you using?
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Teeth on October 10, 2011, 12:14:43 am
Today a Danish Greatsword in battle, a Great Maul in siege and a Long War Axe on an alt. I did the tk behind me with a left swing with a Long War Axe.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Tindel on October 10, 2011, 12:24:44 am
I get tkd the same amount now as before xD
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Wookimonsta on October 10, 2011, 12:46:21 am
i love it, gives agile characters much better chances against crowds.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: SixThumbs on October 10, 2011, 02:46:35 am
Except for the fact that agile character's weapons still get stuck on the enemy behind them.

I am under the impression half the time that given the right circumstances an agility build can do as much damage, more maybe, then a strength character. I have no evidence for this though.

Really you just have to liken swinging your weapon like that board game Operation, don't let it touch anything except what you're aiming for.

Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Paul on October 10, 2011, 09:55:23 am
This change forces people to think  and to be aware of their surroundings more before attacking. Of course some people don't like this. I do.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: dado on October 10, 2011, 10:32:53 am
This change forces people to think  and to be aware of their surroundings more before attacking. Of course some people don't like this. I do.
man u are killing TEAMWORK !!!! THIS IS PROBLEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Vibe on October 10, 2011, 10:35:37 am
I like the new teammate collision.. mindless zerging doesn't work aswell anymore. Good footwork and getting your enemies to hit eachother matter now.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Phazey on October 10, 2011, 10:48:55 am
I think the new swing animation settings are great.

Like Wooki says, when facing multiple opponents, you stand a much better chance because they can't swing through each other any more. Stepping in between opponents works quite well now.

But more importantly, nobody can swing through walls or floors now! Shorter weapons have a real advantage against longer weapons in cramped quarters. I've been using the buildings and terrain to make fighting those long 2h and pole arms and i like the new settings a lot.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Dioxete on October 10, 2011, 10:54:40 am
I don't like it at all, teamwork now sucks, many retarded shielders are used to stand right behing you, I can't properly swing in any battle. Jump slash is the only option i can see to get over this, and it's fucking lame.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Phazey on October 10, 2011, 11:00:21 am
@ Dioxete / Denbitre Date: use overheads. Don't sideswing if there is a guy next to you. Those still work fine in crowds.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Teeth on October 10, 2011, 11:12:37 am
I think the new swing animation settings are great.

Like Wooki says, when facing multiple opponents, you stand a much better chance because they can't swing through each other any more. Stepping in between opponents works quite well now.

But more importantly, nobody can swing through walls or floors now! Shorter weapons have a real advantage against longer weapons in cramped quarters. I've been using the buildings and terrain to make fighting those long 2h and pole arms and i like the new settings a lot.
Basically someone who gets caught in a group vs 1 situation can survive and even kill a few by just plainly spamming, because its near impossible to hit someone running around.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Phazey on October 10, 2011, 11:15:29 am
Basically someone who gets caught in a group vs 1 situation can survive and even kill a few by just plainly spamming, because its near impossible to hit someone running around.

Not at all, i can hit people fine. And 'just plainly spamming' doesn't work, you will die within seconds. You need awareness, footwork and blocking at the right moments.

When someone is running past you, just read an overhead and smack him. It's not that hard. Movement speeds haven't changed.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Teeth on October 10, 2011, 11:21:47 am
Oh yes plainly spamming in a group vs 1 situation works, I've seen players kill 4 enemies and survive for about 30 seconds cause its ridiculously hard to hit, without blocking a single time. Overheads get stuck sometimes too and even then you sometimes hit the player spot on but somehow kill a teammate due to lag and flunky hitboxes.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 10, 2011, 11:27:59 am
Well yesterday I played on my HA  :twisted:
And many times i saw that the arrows hit my target even if i shot beside him. Just like the arrows flew into him from the side.
 Anyway i think maybe the arrow hitboxes are changed, or maybe its just me
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Bulzur on October 10, 2011, 11:29:49 am
@ Dioxete / Denbitre Date: use overheads. Don't sideswing if there is a guy next to you. Those still work fine in crowds.

Killed invisible teammate with an overhead.
Since then, i'm thinking about doing a 13 shield skill character, to make the entire ennemy team tk each other, while i just circle around them with a practice shield...
Seriously, ganking someone is just wrong now. The only chance you have to kill a good opponent, is to use ranged or cav, you can't gank effectively with melee.

When a "random" shielder survives 45sec in between 7 "good" players, it's kinda frustrating... Luckily, the shield collision is completely broken, so the shielder gets hit from the front sometimes, it sure helps. Body collision makes it also possible to go "into" the shielder's guard, and effectively slash him.

All in all, it's more easy to kill a shielder 1v1, than with 5 of your teammates against that same shielder.... wtf...
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Phazey on October 10, 2011, 11:30:39 am
I know for a fact that plainly spamming without blocking once does not work. You might get lucky once or twice, but just try it yourself. You will see that you need much more than 'just plainly spamming'.

You will need to block. You will need good footwork. You will need a bit of awareness. Else you will fail.

Don't cry about not being ably to spam side swings in close quarters with those huge 2 meter long swords or polearms. It's silly and it's a good thing it got fixed. Instead, learn to use overheads and try and be a little more aware of your teammates positions.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Thucydides on October 10, 2011, 11:34:41 am
I know for a fact that plainly spamming without blocking once does not work. You might get lucky once or twice, but just try it yourself. You will see that you need much more than 'just plainly spamming'.

You will need to block. You will need good footwork. You will need a bit of awareness. Else you will fail.

Don't cry about not being ably to spam side swings in close quarters with those huge 2 meter long swords or polearms. It's silly and it's a good thing it got fixed. Instead, learn to use overheads and try and be a little more aware of your teammates positions.

dear developers: please fix overhead animation so i don't headshot my team.

thxx
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 10, 2011, 11:35:37 am
Many times I just jumps around in a group of enemy players, while wearing peasant gear, it takes like 10 seconds before i die, and that is by a 1-hit on me. And the times i jump I see that i often survives longer...
The new hitboxes are just bad...
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Teeth on October 10, 2011, 11:43:51 am
I know for a fact that plainly spamming without blocking once does not work. You might get lucky once or twice, but just try it yourself. You will see that you need much more than 'just plainly spamming'.

You will need to block. You will need good footwork. You will need a bit of awareness. Else you will fail.

Don't cry about not being ably to spam side swings in close quarters with those huge 2 meter long swords or polearms. It's silly and it's a good thing it got fixed. Instead, learn to use overheads and try and be a little more aware of your teammates positions.
I know for a fact it does work. You need a bit of luck but I regularly see guys surviving for a very long time while being gankend by running in circles and slashing, cause its so hard to hit him.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Phazey on October 10, 2011, 11:45:07 am
I know for a fact it does work. You need a bit of luck but I regularly see guys surviving for a very long time while being gankend by running in circles and slashing, cause its so hard to hit him.

All you need to do is chamber an overhead swing, look at the guy, step in and release swing. It's not that hard.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Bulzur on October 10, 2011, 11:48:11 am
All you need to do is chamber an overhead swing, look at the guy, step in and release swing. It's not that hard.

Harder than circling and doing sidewings/overheads, while sometimes blocking.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Phazey on October 10, 2011, 11:52:23 am
The guy you are trying to gank is facing 3-5 enemies. You cannot block behind you.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Teeth on October 10, 2011, 11:53:43 am
If you have an instahit early hitting 102 speed scimitar that might be the case. It requires a lot of timing to hit someone with a slower weapon in such a situation as your teammates are all over the place and so is your enemy, and don't get me started on the teamhits by your team or the weird hitboxes when doing overheads.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 10, 2011, 11:53:50 am


Don't cry about not being ably to spam side swings in close quarters with those huge 2 meter long swords or polearms. It's silly and it's a good thing it got fixed. Instead, learn to use overheads and try and be a little more aware of your teammates positions.

Says the 1hander cav :F
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Phazey on October 10, 2011, 11:59:05 am
If you have an instahit early hitting 102 speed scimitar that might be the case.
My elite spammitar is 100 speed. Not many people using the shorter normal spammitar.

Not saying it's always easy, just saying it's not at all impossible like you seem to suggest.

And at Kuoin: i also play a 2h and a pole arm guy. Doing fine, loving the morning star and heavy bastard sword. Not having any trouble in crowds, although i do admit preventing team kills is harder and i need to watch my swings a bit, just like i have to do on my shielder.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 10, 2011, 12:00:42 pm

And at Kuoin: i also play a 2h and a pole arm guy. Doing fine, loving the morning star and heavy bastard sword. Not having any trouble in crowds.

hm.... it seems like we have different strategies when facing enemies :P
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Phazey on October 10, 2011, 12:10:48 pm
Well if you ask me to choose between the old settings (people being able to swing through walls, the ground and other team mates) and the new settings (side swings hitting team mates if they are next to you), i strongly prefer the new settings.

Preventing those team kills is hard, but mostly just take a bit of practice to get used to. What really helps is to switch targets when you see 3+ team mates going for 1 guy. Don't be kill greedy.

And about dealing with shielders charging in between you and your team mates: just keep facing him and step back with him into safety. When he tries to swing at you, keep stepping back and block and let your team mates kill him. If he doesn't go for you, just hit him with a quick overhead when he tries to swing at a team mate.

Or get in close and step through his shield and hit him with a quick side swing. Shield collision is a bit borked at the moment, indeed. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 10, 2011, 12:13:34 pm

Or get in close and step through his shield and hit him with a quick side swing. Shield collision is a bit borked at the moment, indeed. :rolleyes:

Hm... Indeed. Also pikes sometimes go through the target... pfff
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: rustyspoon on October 10, 2011, 12:25:37 pm
Overall I'm happy with the changes, though a couple things really bother me.

1. As a 1-hander, sometimes my overheads get blocked by teammates on my right.

2. 1 handers glance more frequently then before patch. I would be okay with this, except for the fact that 2-handers can still hilt slash.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Teeth on October 10, 2011, 12:56:04 pm
Overall I'm happy with the changes, though a couple things really bother me.

1. As a 1-hander, sometimes my overheads get blocked by teammates on my right.

2. 1 handers glance more frequently then before patch. I would be okay with this, except for the fact that 2-handers can still hilt slash.
Hiltslashing is more prone to glancing now too, it became a bit more risky.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: _GTX_ on October 10, 2011, 01:11:37 pm
and polearm can still stun u to death, but no no. Thats 100% fair. Learn to focus on the new things, game has changed. 2h got nerfed alot, they are not even close to being even the shadow of what they were before.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Brutal on October 10, 2011, 01:21:55 pm
Although i do like the new hitbox because of harder ganking and for realistic reason the game just seem way less fluid and enjoyable.
a lot of time i killed people that i clearly missed or the other way around, it s really frustrating.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Zisa on October 10, 2011, 07:08:02 pm
Well if you ask me to choose between the old settings (people being able to swing through walls, the ground and other team mates) and the new settings (side swings hitting team mates if they are next to you), i strongly prefer the new settings.

Preventing those team kills is hard, but mostly just take a bit of practice to get used to. What really helps is to switch targets when you see 3+ team mates going for 1 guy. Don't be kill greedy.

And about dealing with shielders charging in between you and your team mates: just keep facing him and step back with him into safety. When he tries to swing at you, keep stepping back and block and let your team mates kill him. If he doesn't go for you, just hit him with a quick overhead when he tries to swing at a team mate.

Or get in close and step through his shield and hit him with a quick side swing. Shield collision is a bit borked at the moment, indeed. :rolleyes:
I am glad you prefer it.
Kind of not  fun on a slope having attacks decide to stop. Or not even passing through a tree, yet still stopping like the tree grabbed it. Guess I will care less if I switch from polearms to 2h, but I still will see trees grabbing weapons and other nonsense.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: SixThumbs on October 10, 2011, 07:29:08 pm
The one thing I wish they would fix is the stab that's pretty much finished but because they walk the tip of the blade into you you're hit usually for full damage.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Leshma on October 10, 2011, 08:38:38 pm
and polearm can still stun u to death, but no no. Thats 100% fair. Learn to focus on the new things, game has changed. 2h got nerfed alot, they are not even close to being even the shadow of what they were before.

Until you start dying more than you kill, twohanders will not be buffed :wink:
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: ThePoopy on October 10, 2011, 09:08:12 pm
paul fucked up melee

At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on October 10, 2011, 09:12:47 pm
I like it.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Paul on October 10, 2011, 09:53:03 pm
it's cmp's baby. he deserves the full credit.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Leshma on October 10, 2011, 10:03:01 pm
I don't mind it personally. Actually I've never abused it, but I do agree with GTX that it was a pretty big nerf to greatswords and that polestun (offtopic) needs to go. But I doubt that will ever happen.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Thucydides on October 10, 2011, 11:00:51 pm
heres a tip for gankers: First guy to come in contact with the loner blocks the hit and flanks him. That way you have a perfect surround.

People who fear good players are the people that die first.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Dioxete on October 11, 2011, 12:58:23 pm
@ Dioxete / Denbitre Date: use overheads. Don't sideswing if there is a guy next to you. Those still work fine in crowds.
So when you are attacking with your team mates, there are guys behind you too :/ if it tries to get close to the RL, you won't do kilometric swings in RL, rly animations+stuck are fucking up infantry. Switching to crossbower :D

By the way: when you are a laggy bastard like me. overhead is not rly usefull. you gonna miss 60% of the hits.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: RandomDude on October 11, 2011, 02:12:37 pm
heres a tip for gankers: First guy to come in contact with the loner blocks the hit and flanks him. That way you have a perfect surround.

People who fear good players are the people that die first.

and bcos they die they fear them so it becomes self-perpetuating
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Kafein on October 11, 2011, 06:02:20 pm
I see much more (successfull) spam than before this change. I don't really care though. I don't even know why I still have a inf weapon.


Aside those very selfish statements, I think the melee animations should be reworked in order to make this change work right. IRL, you effectively attack from the start of your "animation". But IRL nobody is a widely-swinging moron like in the game. Previous attack timings were sort of more accurate because they matched what a true RL attack would do, despite the retarded look.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: rustyspoon on October 11, 2011, 06:54:24 pm
Aside those very selfish statements, I think the melee animations should be reworked in order to make this change work right. IRL, you effectively attack from the start of your "animation". But IRL nobody is a widely-swinging moron like in the game. Previous attack timings were sort of more accurate because they matched what a true RL attack would do, despite the retarded look.

I entirely agree. The animations need to be more fluid and less ridiculous. Maybe by incorporating more of the combat animation enhancement mod?
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Siiem on October 11, 2011, 06:56:32 pm
This change forces people to think

And there is your mistake! Forcing people to think, madness.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Penitent on October 11, 2011, 07:04:06 pm
Earlier attacks ARE better because the swing collide with walls.  This is good.

A tweak I would recommend:
make the early part of the attack MUCH weaker, so hitting teamies in the head that are behind you dont die, just get a minor wound.  This should not be a powerful attack.

ALSO, the attacks last TOO LONG.  I've been killed by overhead sword swings after the swing was completed.  Same with thrusts.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Zisa on October 11, 2011, 07:05:50 pm
It would be great .. if it didn't seem to be more BS swinging through people, more wtf tks and still shit like a guy swinging an axe through a fence and attacks that mysteriously stop for no apparent reason.

Add this little factoid, the game is 3rd person, so there is the inherent parallax problems of aiming. Whatever has been done seems unecessarily punitive and with unintended side effects.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 12, 2011, 09:23:24 am
Earlier attacks ARE better because the swing collide with walls.  This is good.

ALSO, the attacks last TOO LONG.  I've been killed by overhead sword swings after the swing was completed.  Same with thrusts.

I agree to the last part, cuz sometimes i block their overhead, and after their hit has reached the ground i take down my block and then i get a hit in the head, and dies...
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 12, 2011, 11:43:22 am
I went onto the EU server to test this whole survive in a crowd thing. I had ping of 400 and I was using an arbalest by its self with no shield or melee weapon. I was wearing padded cloth with plate mittens.

I was able to run into a group and run around in circles and survive every time for about 20 seconds. I ran into one group and manged to get them to TK 2 people. 1 vs 4 then 1 vs 5 then finally 1 vs 7 and it took them about 30 seconds to kill me.

I'm going to STF a char and make a 13 shielder with a practice shield, a Huscarl's Round Shield and a kyhber knife. Then the griefing shall commence.

Also I find it much easier now to use my 2h against ganks. I thought my skill must have gone up after patch, now I'm sad panda.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Tomas on October 12, 2011, 12:17:56 pm
A tweak I would recommend:
make the early part of the attack MUCH weaker, so hitting teamies in the head that are behind you dont die, just get a minor wound.  This should not be a powerful attack.

I agree with this. 

The only alternative I can think of is for the chambering of swings to be interupted rather than the actual swing.  That would stop the team hits but would probably make survivng in an uneven melee even easier so Garison's solution is what i'd go with
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: MaHuD on October 12, 2011, 12:23:52 pm
Today a Danish Greatsword in battle, a Great Maul in siege and a Long War Axe on an alt. I did the tk behind me with a left swing with a Long War Axe.

And you are complaining that your swing kills teammates?
Oh Dear.
Surely that can't be one of the weaknesses of using big weapons?
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Kafein on October 12, 2011, 12:25:33 pm
The animations need to be less ridiculous.

We agree but...

combat animation enhancement mod?

What ? You said

less ridiculous.

I don't want japanime-looking animations x)


Earlier attacks ARE better because the swing collide with walls.  This is good.

A tweak I would recommend:
make the early part of the attack MUCH weaker, so hitting teamies in the head that are behind you dont die, just get a minor wound.  This should not be a powerful attack.

ALSO, the attacks last TOO LONG.  I've been killed by overhead sword swings after the swing was completed.  Same with thrusts.

That seems effective and easier to do.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Zisa on October 16, 2011, 04:29:02 am
So is this what is causing all the silly collisions with slopes - people invulnerable to attacks on steep hills?

How long until people decide this is not working?
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Greziz on October 16, 2011, 07:41:03 am
I approve of the animations colliding with stuff better but seriously WHY IN GODS NAME DO MY RIGHT AND LEFT SWINGS AND OVERHEADS HIT MY ALLIES DIRECTLY BEHIND ME WITH A BASTARD SWORD!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could understand if he was to my right or left in the swings and maybe the overhead if he was directly behind me but seriously my left and rights hit people who are directly behind me it is ludicrous. All I am asking is that you tweak the active collision just a bit so I dont left or right people who are BEHIND me.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Kalp on October 16, 2011, 09:58:14 am
@ Dioxete / Denbitre Date: use overheads. Don't sideswing if there is a guy next to you. Those still work fine in crowds.
And if someone stay behind you ? Then even with 1h, overhead atack is blocked....
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Dioxete on October 16, 2011, 11:44:05 am
I think the colide was perfect as it was. Now is kind of retarded.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Teeth on October 16, 2011, 12:31:08 pm
Please keep in mind that the earlier active attacks versus props and versus players are two seperate things. One can be tweaked while the other can stay as it is now. Which is what I think that should be done. The collison for props and ground is somewhat okay. The earlier active attacks should be made less early active. Not like it was before, but in between the situation now and to old situation.

You would still have to watch where you swing, but atleast you won't have to worry about hitting people behind you or out of your view. It would also compensate for the retarded animations we have. In close quarters someone with a long weapon would use more compact swings, we can't do that, we swing completely horizontal always.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Zisa on October 16, 2011, 06:43:30 pm
punitive mechanic.
Worse then implementing a bad idea is continued advocation of said turd.
See also: prohibition. (hyperbole :P)
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Bromagi on October 16, 2011, 09:39:06 pm
This is not english class... I demand you simplify for the lesser beings!!
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Zisa on October 16, 2011, 10:27:02 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

You may also be interested in: Straw argument, straw man.
Title: Re: Earlier active attacks blow!
Post by: Bromagi on October 17, 2011, 02:18:18 pm
Nobody plays with Brogg's temper.. this conversation is over.