cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: BlackMilk on October 09, 2011, 06:34:04 pm
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which one is better? Pure 2h with Athletics and PS outmaxed. Rather go for 8 PS or for 7 Athletics?
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My main uses 7 ath at 30 and it is a ton of fun with 6 PS, you can go to 7PS at 31 if you forgo IF. If you use the higher damaging 2 handed weapons 6PS is more than enough, you might want higher PS though if you're going to use the swords and want more out of your thrust.
Once I have a MW weapon I'll probably try 5PS and 8th...7 ath with a Great Maul is pretty fun too :)
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Ah, forgot to add this :
build now (at level 30) is 21/18 with 4 if and 5 wpm.
Weapon is a MW German Greatsword
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Sorry didn't realize you were already at 30. If your shots are glancing now or if you take more hits than you'd like to kill most people go for more PS. If you feel you're fine in combat as is now the little extra speed increase only helps in footwork. With the higher ath you can land some back peddling shots that a lot of people don't expect or maneuver around them so their blocks are negated.
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I finally hit lvl 30 3 days ago, I'm using 18/21 build and my final change was from 6ath to 7ath and I must admit, the difference in movement speed was HUGE (atleast that's how it felt).
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If I had to choose between one of those builds I'd go for the 21/21 build since anything below 7 ATH feels like wheelchairmod for me.
But keep in mind that the amount of WPF you would sacrafice for the extra powerstrike equals its potential gain when converting 14 skill points in comparison to a 18/21 build at the loss of 3IF i.e 6 hp . And I did the maths (go ahead, try it out yourself with vargas toolkit).
So: neither of them and either go for 18/21 or 21/18
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To me 6 athlethics is just enough. 5 is too low, 6 is fine. 7 powerstrike is also fine. I was wondering the same thing, but I think 21/21 would be my pick. Not sure why, I feel kinda sluggish now, 7 athlethics give you just a bit more control in a group fight.
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i'm 24 18 if that helps :L
6 ath and wm is still enough to fight and duel the faster chars, even fighting ninjas :P
21 21 wouldn't be a bad option either
oh yh almost forgot 24 18 is done (-IF) at 31, 21 21 isn't quite complete till 32
21 21 has ~ 5 less health than 24 18 at lvl 32, up to you how much thats worth :D
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I'll go with 18/24, trust me, it's a killer build.
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30/9
27/12
24/15
weapon master is trash
difference between 0 WM and 7 WM is liek 30 wpp = .02 second difference in swing speed
max iron flesh and PS
4-5 athletics is more then enough to fight in any battle as long as you can block
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The diference is 420 WPF, but if you put everything into one type, like 2h. The difference is 52 wpf, which means you will hit 26% faster. That is if 1 wpf = 0,5% speed bonus. That is what I have heard it is, it might be wrong tho.
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18/24!
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which one is better? Pure 2h with Athletics and PS outmaxed. Rather go for 8 PS or for 7 Athletics?
24/18 for the extra 5hp (assuming IF) and extra 8 damage (particularily welcome on a morningstar) and to be slightly less mobile than with 7ATH.
i mean 6ath for a 17kgs armor is more than enough... but you need to consider all your load. if you plan to maul often, 21/21 is funny. for a greataxe or morningstar, i really found 21/18 and 24/15 with max if, to be the best ways to go. and i retired to almost all 2h STR/AGI ratios. 27/12 in siege rocks, 21/18 is more viable to avoid being ganked.
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The diference is 420 WPF, but if you put everything into one type, like 2h. The difference is 52 wpf, which means you will hit 26% faster. That is if 1 wpf = 0,5% speed bonus. That is what I have heard it is, it might be wrong tho.
And that's false. from waltf4 tests, from 0 to 140 wpf (effective, no armor) there is a 10-11% swing speed bonus. that mean a fast weapon will be faster, a slow weapon benefit less.
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18-24 represent!
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18-24 represent!
I can't decide if I want to go for this or instead stay 15/24 and spend a level or two converting skill points.
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4-5 athletics is more then enough to fight in any battle as long as you can block
Higher athlethics is incredibly useful. Blocking does only protect from the front and also 1 person at a time. With 5 athlethics you can't control the fight, if there are more enemies you'll die quickly due to being attacked by multiple people at the same time. 7 athlethics give you the ability to keep 1 guy inbetween you and the rest all the time, also if you sheath your weapon you can mostly just run away.
You can also dodge arrows better, get out of the way of a couched lance quicker and you can dance in and out the enemies range more easily. Atlethics is very useful.
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Higher athlethics is incredibly useful. Blocking does only protect from the front and also 1 person at a time. With 5 athlethics you can't control the fight, if there are more enemies you'll die quickly due to being attacked by multiple people at the same time. 7 athlethics give you the ability to keep 1 guy inbetween you and the rest all the time, also if you sheath your weapon you can mostly just run away.
You can also dodge arrows better, get out of the way of a couched lance quicker and you can dance in and out the enemies range more easily. Atlethics is very useful.
I <3 athletics and i punish myself every minute for ever trying a str heavy build
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Higher athlethics is incredibly useful. Blocking does only protect from the front and also 1 person at a time. With 5 athlethics you can't control the fight, if there are more enemies you'll die quickly due to being attacked by multiple people at the same time. 7 athlethics give you the ability to keep 1 guy inbetween you and the rest all the time, also if you sheath your weapon you can mostly just run away.
You can also dodge arrows better, get out of the way of a couched lance quicker and you can dance in and out the enemies range more easily. Atlethics is very useful.
Pretty much agree 100%.
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15/27. Phase say me he has this build. :rolleyes:
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I can't decide if I want to go for this or instead stay 15/24 and spend a level or two converting skill points.
if your a 2h\polearm 15\24 is fine , you dont need the extra PS , but for 1handers you need all the help you can get in form of PS to avoid the glance dance!
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15/27. Phase say me he has this build. :rolleyes:
Doesn't mean it's good.
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But it's good.
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15/27. Phase say me he has this build. :rolleyes:
ohhh that's why he dies from a single morningstar hit... i knew it.
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15/24 or 15/27 because :
- You will 2-3 shot anyone with a 2h and enough wpf
- The little hit damage difference doesn't mean anything as in many situations the 7/8 ath makes you able to hit twice when with less you would hit once.
And I'm not even mentioning the enormous defensive advantage of high ath (dodge arrows, dodge swings and thrusts, dodge horses, control fights, be a s key hero)
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15/24 or 15/27 because :
- You will 2-3 shot anyone with a 2h and enough wpf
wrong
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wrong
Not really.
Sure you have to concentrate a little bit, aim for the head, use sweetspots or delay swings against fat-IF stacking tanks, but the difference between 5 and 8 PS is for most targets 1 hit less. You will be able to hit a lot more than a STR build, in the end inflicting more damage. You are also much more adapted against non-infantry enemies.
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Not really.
Sure you have to concentrate a little bit, aim for the head, use sweetspots or delay swings against fat-IF stacking tanks, but the difference between 5 and 8 PS is for most targets 1 hit less. You will be able to hit a lot more than a STR build, in the end inflicting more damage. You are also much more adapted against non-infantry enemies.
5 PS against any kind of decent armor (and there isn't little of it) will show it's weakness. Not to mention you'll get 1-2 shotted in return.
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Not to mention you'll get 1-2 shotted in return.
Sure, but
5 PS against any kind of decent armor (and there isn't little of it) will show it's weakness.
Not with a +3 DGS/GGS or any of the high tier 2h swords.
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Sure, but
Not with a +3 DGS/GGS or any of the high tier 2h swords.
I have 6 PS and +3 GGS and it takes more than 2 hits to kill people. About 5-6 hits on loomed Transitionals. 2 hits only for light armor, with the appropriate speed bonus. Try it yourself.
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I find 7 powerstrike to be the sweet spot, just as I find 7 athlethics the sweet spot. Next gen it is 21/18 for me and I'll go for 21/21 on lvl 32.
Yeah Kafeïn your view on the damage of 2h is a little bit off.
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I have 6 PS and +3 GGS and it takes more than 2 hits to kill people. About 5-6 hits on loomed Transitionals. 2 hits only for light armor, with the appropriate speed bonus. Try it yourself.
I find 7 powerstrike to be the sweet spot, just as I find 7 athlethics the sweet spot. Next gen it is 21/18 for me and I'll go for 21/21 on lvl 32.
Yeah Kafeïn your view on the damage of 2h is a little bit off.
I guess I have to play 2h more often :)
Although loomed transitional isn't really my idea of average armor :s
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I told u to listen to me from the start ;). 21-21 all the way bro.
Btw kafein with 5 ps u cant kill people that easyli. 2-3 hitting people with 5 ps ? nope dude, not gonna happen unless they have cheap armor. With 7 ps i can 2-3 hit average armor, but that is not possible with 5 ps, unless u are fighting an agi build.
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I told u to listen to me from the start ;). 21-21 all the way bro.
Btw kafein with 5 ps u cant kill people that easyli. 2-3 hitting people with 5 ps ? nope dude, not gonna happen unless they have cheap armor. With 7 ps i can 2-3 hit average armor, but that is not possible with 5 ps, unless u are fighting an agi build.
agreed. i actually have a 21/18 7PS and usually 2-3 hits with +3 morningstar against 50 body armor, 3-4 hits with +3 great axe.
i usually did 2hit almost everything with the previous 27/12 tho.
the only weird thing is that phyrex with 5PS still do a lot of damage. when that guy will hit you, he's sure to get the best speed bonus his feet can give him.
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5PS? He got a 21/18 build...
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i gonna try 18/24... it's so good for me.
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5PS? He got a 21/18 build...
He used to have 15/24. Switched to 21/18 about a week ago so he can spam the Great Maul.
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I have 6 PS and +3 GGS and it takes more than 2 hits to kill people. About 5-6 hits on loomed Transitionals. 2 hits only for light armor, with the appropriate speed bonus. Try it yourself.
i have 6 PS and my 34 cut Elite spammy is good for almost any armor minus the Lordly Blackie and Gothica ! ( tho face slash fix this )
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He used to have 15/24. Switched to 21/18 about a week ago so he can spam the Great Maul.
That noob. :mad:
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In all honesty I was aiming for a 21 21 build, and if there ever is a free respec in the future I will prob change to that or 18 24, In the mean time this is still a very tasty build and I enjoy the high ps :D.
So yeah 21 21 ftw.
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5PS? He got a 21/18 build...
sorry i don't have the realtime pro builds update app on my cellphone... :?
he had 15/24 for ages so...
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He used to have 15/24. Switched to 21/18 about a week ago so he can spam the Great Maul.
Oh fuck not that again. I remember fighting Phyrex with a great maul on a siege server like pre upkeep patch. It was hell, there was just nothing we could do. Outstanding blockers with chrushthrough is just overpowered.
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What is good build for Miadao? I'm usually a player who rushes to most biggest gangs, where the fighting is most biggest. My current stats are 18/11.
Should I go more tank like? I use now vaegir armor, which can take few straight hits from swords. I like 2h most of all, and going for pure 2h build. Can people with more experience tell me about good build, weapon and armor?
Thank you
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Anything from 15/24 to 27/12 is considered a "good" build. Take agi builds if you know how to block and do your footwork, or take STR build for easy mode and 1-2 shotting :)
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Anything from 15/24 to 27/12 is considered a "good" build. Take agi builds if you know how to block and do your footwork, or take STR build for easy mode and 1-2 shotting :)
As a ninja my agi made sure I didn't have to block much. You can take agi builds if you can't block, just get a longish weapon and dance in and out of range.
What is good build for Miadao? I'm usually a player who rushes to most biggest gangs, where the fighting is most biggest. My current stats are 18/11.
Should I go more tank like? I use now vaegir armor, which can take few straight hits from swords. I like 2h most of all, and going for pure 2h build. Can people with more experience tell me about good build, weapon and armor?
Thank you
First go 18/18 and then decide if you would like more movement speed, or if you want to be slightly more hardhitting and then go for 21/18 or if you want more movement speed 18/21 on lvl 30. Use this so you get it right http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm.
Miaodao is a very good weapon, with top tier cut damage and high speed, it lacks a stab though. Most 2h prefer one of the western greatswords. Just pick a few of them up and see if you like them better.
Armour doesn't really matter, higher armour gives you more protection but slows you down, lighter armour the opposite. Go with whatever feels right. Most twohanders use a body armour with around 12 weight.
Don't go too expensive on leg armour, just use mail chausses, the amount of leg hits you take is really small, and they do 0.8 damage anyway.
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which one is better? Pure 2h with Athletics and PS outmaxed. Rather go for 8 PS or for 7 Athletics?
15/24 with GERMAN!... SPEEEEEEEEED!
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Anything from 15/24 to 27/12 is considered a "good" build. Take agi builds if you know how to block and do your footwork, or take STR build for easy mode and 1-2 shotting :)
yeah STR builds are easymode while agi ath running builds are for pros... with high athletic builds, if you start getting surrounded you just run away... with low athletic builds, if you get surrounded you need to block and counterattack multiple enemies with really slow footwork while people keep backpedaling faster than you run forward... yes, STR builds are easymode.
oh you're that shielder... :rolleyes:
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oh you're that shielder... :rolleyes:
wat
Also lol at your explanation of STR vs AGI.
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1-2 shooting? With what, arbalest? Cause you can't do that with swords anymore, or at least I couldn't with 8PS.
With 6PS it takes me two overheads to kill an archer.
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1-2 shooting? With what, arbalest? Cause you can't do that with swords anymore, or at least I couldn't with 8PS.
With 6PS it takes me two overheads to kill an archer.
9 PS with unloomed Dadao and I 1-2 shotted medium/heavy armor, given the target wasn't a STR stacker or in loomed transitional.. or both.
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Well, I couldn't do it with loomed Danish (43 cut) and 8PS.
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Well, I couldn't do it with loomed Danish (43 cut) and 8PS.
That's because you either had zero or negative speed bonus, or you were attacking a STR stacker/loomed armor.
Last gen I was 24/15. I played most of the gen in Tabard and Leather Gloves, that's 16 armor. It still took 2 or 3 swings to kill me.
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Higher athlethics is incredibly useful. Blocking does only protect from the front and also 1 person at a time. With 5 athlethics you can't control the fight, if there are more enemies you'll die quickly due to being attacked by multiple people at the same time. 7 athlethics give you the ability to keep 1 guy inbetween you and the rest all the time, also if you sheath your weapon you can mostly just run away.
You can also dodge arrows better, get out of the way of a couched lance quicker and you can dance in and out the enemies range more easily. Atlethics is very useful.
while I agree, in my experience althletics doesn't have that much actual in game effect compared to stuff like hp and powerstrike which have pretty huge and exact effect. agility is a much worse attribute to stack imo than str, high wm is useless unless you are hybrid, infact 0 wm is viable. alth scales better but still half the movespeed effect is from agi and also based on wieght anyway.
so basically if I want a agile fast character I find i'm better off stacking strength/if/ps and wearing light armour and using a faster weaker weapon. it overall has better survivability, damage and speed than stacking agi with medium armour and high dmg weapon.
but this is off old experiences i dont play much anymore maybe they have changed it alot. and the way armour works is very different.
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wat
Also lol at your explanation of STR vs AGI.
also pure STR builds sucks like pure AGI builds do. the best compromise is to balance on your needs. that's why pure STR maulers sucks compared to balanced ones, that's why 9/30 ninjas just glance on you while you need the worst hit ever to instakill em.
there is no STR vs AGI. there is who bend to STR, who bend to AGI. i get what you mean about STR builds... high STR high armor builds forgive a lot of blocking mistakes... but you have to consider that AGI oriented builds forgive more footwork/positioning mistakes. anyway, you can see some noob STR players dying like someonelse, just with 2 more hits.. or you can see good agi players like khorin really cutting thru a line of enemies. i just trolled you a little because saying "X build is easymode while Y build is not" without stating why, is cheap.
while I agree, in my experience althletics doesn't have that much actual in game effect compared to stuff like hp and powerstrike which have pretty huge and exact effect. agility is a much worse attribute to stack imo than str, high wm is useless unless you are hybrid, infact 0 wm is viable. alth scales better but still half the movespeed effect is from agi and also based on wieght anyway.
so basically if I want a agile fast character I find i'm better off stacking strength/if/ps and wearing light armour and using a faster weaker weapon. it overall has better survivability, damage and speed than stacking agi with medium armour and high dmg weapon.
but this is off old experiences i dont play much anymore maybe they have changed it alot. and the way armour works is very different.
well.. i saw WaltF4 tests stating that athletics give nearly a 5% moving speed bonus per point while agility gives around 1.5% per point.
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i try 24/18, it's so good i think. cuz i can play with low agi, i don't need 21 or 24 agi...
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i try 24/18, it's so good i think. cuz i can play with low agi, i don't need 21 or 24 agi...
18 agility is low? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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no i don't mean it, i mean "i can play with low agi, so 18 is enough high to me"
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also pure STR builds sucks like pure AGI builds do. the best compromise is to balance on your needs. that's why pure STR maulers sucks compared to balanced ones, that's why 9/30 ninjas just glance on you while you need the worst hit ever to instakill em.
there is no STR vs AGI. there is who bend to STR, who bend to AGI. i get what you mean about STR builds... high STR high armor builds forgive a lot of blocking mistakes... but you have to consider that AGI oriented builds forgive more footwork/positioning mistakes. anyway, you can see some noob STR players dying like someonelse, just with 2 more hits.. or you can see good agi players like khorin really cutting thru a line of enemies. i just trolled you a little because saying "X build is easymode while Y build is not" without stating why, is cheap.
well.. i saw WaltF4 tests stating that athletics give nearly a 5% moving speed bonus per point while agility gives around 1.5% per point.
I have to inform you that pure STR builds are FAR from useless, compared to pure AGI builds.
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I have to inform you that pure STR builds are FAR from useless, compared to pure AGI builds.
You wont top the scoreboards with either one of them
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I have to inform you that pure STR builds are FAR from useless, compared to pure AGI builds.
i didn't say STR builds are useless. i just say aren't that EASYMODE you stated. because a pure 36/3str build is an easy prey against multiple enemies while a balanced build can still take some hits while retaining enough mobility to react. pure STR will only shine on really tight brawls AND with support. balanced or agi oriented builds can move freely on flanks, engage/disengage at will, chase down archers. STR builds just engage and fight till is over since they can't chase, can't retreat, can't kite or freely exchange targets. all features that packed together overcome easly the lack of health points and damage.
now, i did some serious maul work 2 months ago... while retiring the greatmaul i tried various builds. 27/12 was somewhat good, lot of onehits with 47 blunt and 9PS... but 4ath was not enough to chase who try to get space... at least while wearing decent armor plus the 8.5 kgs of the maul. 20/21 was not bad, opponents with less than 7ath couldn't ran faster enough to kite or retreat but 6PS sometimes is not enough to crush other maulers /heavy polearms/shields. the one i had the best results was 21/18 because opponents can't escape your overhead. they're forced to fight at maul reach (and often die).
i still say agility path need some love. is not too bad but neither equally balanced. if weapon profiency could be worth the WM points. we'll see less STR build spam. if armor wpf penalty become more emphasized, we'll see less STR build spam.
all this to say that yes, balance between STR and AGI could get a improvement but is not total crap or pure STR = easymode as you said.
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You wont top the scoreboards with either one of them
Just did it, 36/6 build, 12 PS, 10 IF (fucking 91 total HP), scythe spam. Twas lol
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Just did it, 36/6 build, 12 PS, 10 IF (fucking 91 total HP), scythe spam. Twas lol
hero!
:rolleyes:
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well.. i saw WaltF4 tests stating that athletics give nearly a 5% moving speed bonus per point while agility gives around 1.5% per point.
thats interesting will have to go read that post, but 5% isn't as much as 8% more damage of ps. and str gives hp and damage, while agility effect on weapon speed acording to WaltF4 is negligable.
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hero!
Was not about being a hero or flexing epeen. I'm just trying to show that extreme STR builds are far more useful than extreme AGI builds. Why? Because extreme STR builds can still use 0 WM and still get 111 wpf at lvl 30. Not to mention you get crapload of hp and will 1-2 shot everyone with a bec (tested later today).
And what can a 3/36 build do? It can die running.
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Just did it, 36/6 build, 12 PS, 10 IF (fucking 91 total HP), scythe spam. Twas lol
that build is impossible for lvl 30.
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that build is impossible for lvl 30.
Sorry my mistake, 36/3, 12 PS, 10 IF (91 total HP), 1 ATH. Not that those 3 agi matter anyway lol.
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I'll go with 18/24, trust me, it's a killer build.
this
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ATM I got 18/15 as a hybrid thrower and poler. My gear: War darts 100 wpf in thorwing, Red Tassel Spear 115 wpf, 6 PS 5 PT 5 athl, 5 WM, and it works verry well :P
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thats interesting will have to go read that post, but 5% isn't as much as 8% more damage of ps. and str gives hp and damage, while agility effect on weapon speed acording to WaltF4 is negligable.
agility DOESN'T affect weapon speed since january patch... the only variable affecting weapon speed is WEAPON PROFIENCY giving roughly a 10% swing speed boost from 0 to 140 effective WPF.
Was not about being a hero or flexing epeen. I'm just trying to show that extreme STR builds are far more useful than extreme AGI builds. Why? Because extreme STR builds can still use 0 WM and still get 111 wpf at lvl 30. Not to mention you get crapload of hp and will 1-2 shot everyone with a bec (tested later today).
And what can a 3/36 build do? It can die running.
so now you switched your thoughts from "EASYMODE BUILD" to "FAR MORE USEFUL".
that's an improvement.
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agility DOESN'T affect weapon speed since january patch... the only variable affecting weapon speed is WEAPON PROFIENCY giving roughly a 10% swing speed boost from 0 to 140 effective WPF.
so now you switched your thoughts from "EASYMODE BUILD" to "FAR MORE USEFUL".
that's an improvement.
Lol I don't know whether you are dense or just pretending. STR oriented builds are still easymode compared to AGI. Give a new player STR build and he can/will kick ass. Give a new player AGI build and he will keep dying.
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Lol I don't know whether you are dense or just pretending. STR oriented builds are still easymode compared to AGI. Give a new player STR build and he can/will kick ass. Give a new player AGI build and he will keep dying.
I agree with Vibe, I've never had as bad K/D as when I went 9/30 for a whole gen, only had 2PS since i messed up, and even most peasant lvl 15 could 1 hit me, and 1 fist punch dmg my health nomatter who was punching me
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Lol I don't know whether you are dense or just pretending. STR oriented builds are still easymode compared to AGI. Give a new player STR build and he can/will kick ass. Give a new player AGI build and he will keep dying.
oh are we talking about new players? give a new player any 2handed/polearms build and will keep dying. give a new player a 1h/shield or a ranged build and he can/will kick ass. pity we talking about average players not new ones...
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oh are we talking about new players? give a new player any 2handed/polearms build and will keep dying.
See, this is where you are wrong. He will keep dying, yeah maybe with an agi build. But not necessarily with a STR build, considering he has much more room for mistakes and it takes him a lot less of his lucked swings to kill people. Slap some good armor on top of that and you can actually get a good kd.
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The more noobish people are in melee, the more strenght they need. The more people are good at fighting, being creative and concentrated, the more agi pays.
oh are we talking about new players? give a new player any 2handed/polearms build and will keep dying. give a new player a 1h/shield or a ranged build and he can/will kick ass. pity we talking about average players not new ones...
I think you are right, but in the first case they will actually manage to kill people, with the two other builds it's way more difficult when you lack experience (the wall of weapon reach/movement speed for shielders. Timing, awareness , drop and movement correction for ranged). Both are safer against ranged and inf though.
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See, this is where you are wrong. He will keep dying, yeah maybe with an agi build. But not necessarily with a STR build, considering he has much more room for mistakes and it takes him a lot less of his lucked swings to kill people. Slap some good armor on top of that and you can actually get a good kd.
well without armor you will die in 3 hits instead 2. with 70+ armor and 80+ hp yes, you can sustain 4-5 good blows and at least 8 weak ones. with an agi build (we can limit AGI BUILDS to the lowest strength cap to 12 please? as going under 12STR is not even a build...) 12/27 with 4IF for a total of 55hp, wearing the highest gear you can with 12 STR, (72 body armor with a +3 lamellar armor and +3 plate mittens) you can take 2-3 good blows and at least 5 weak ones. BUT your 9 athletics packed with 27 agi (+ 64% higher speed than a 3agi 1ath build) will give you the ability to be gank-immune (until you're the last player alive ofc).
also as i said, any 4+ ath maulers eat STR builds for breakfast. they can't dodge/backpedal/run away and often neither counter by spam (wfp can still give you a net +5% weapon speed versus a heavy STR build).
anyway i lost the screenshots about a siege day with my 12/27 awlpike spammer... wasn't that hard to top the score with a 24/7 backstabber build... until ariec showed up :P
The more noobish people are in melee, the more strenght they need. The more people are good at fighting, being creative and concentrated, the more agi pays.
I think you are right, but in the first case they will actually manage to kill people, with the two other builds it's way more difficult when you lack experience (the wall of weapon reach/movement speed for shielders. Timing, awareness , drop and movement correction for ranged). Both are safer against ranged and inf though.
yeah i just wrote incorrectly. i would say the 2h/polearm newbs will die over and over, the shielder newbs will not probably kick asses but at least will survive long enough to keep busy some opponents. while ranged, well.. getting used to fire with a given bow, require less than a week (to get a good accuracy).
while getting used to manual block before, ootwork after and advanced offensive/defensive techniques in the end, will probably take months of playing (feints, timed delayed attacks, hiltslash, chamberblock).
to sum up, with STR you can cut thru the mass in a siege but you'll have harder times against any decent infantry (lacking footwork, hiltslashing is hard.) so the only aggressive stance, will be focusing on chambers (then ezmode not anymore).
STR build is the easiest build to play badly, AGI is the hardest build to play it correctly. but still khorin/tempest and other agi oriented builds will smack down any STR build they face so...
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STR build is the easiest build to play badly, AGI is the hardest build to play it correctly.
Therefore I call it "easymode". I'm not saying AGI is useless or anything, just that STR is much easier to be effective at, either for newbs or for skilled people. Simply because STR has way more advantages then AGI.
And as for extreme builds (over 27/12 or 12/27) it's just like you said - AGI extreme 9/30 or even lower STR cannot even be called a build, whereas STR extreme 30/9 and higher STR are quite effective (yes they have their counters, like the mauler, but still).