upkeep doesn't increase newbie.
I thought upkeep on loomed items increased?
Lordly armor is like 1000 points of iron flesh.
This. Loom transitional and you get Black Armor :)So I guess if you loom black armor you get Goretooth :mrgreen:?
This. Loom transitional and you get Black Armor :)Honestly, it seems like loomed gear is better than it's equal armour counter-part.
Many people retire just so they can try out new builds, while some actually enjoy leveling back up (POOPHAMMER).This.
My experience used to be that heirlooms make a difference, but only on certain weapons.That goes without saying.
That goes without saying.
I retired 11 times so I can 1shot some annoying mofos with my MW arbalest and MW steel bolts. Some folks retire 20 times so they can wear their armor and be invisible. However, after my 12 retirement I will stop that practice.
Latest rumor I overheard in Dhirim Tavern: if you retire 113 times, you get your own flying carpet as a bonus.
Bullshit. 20 times? Who do you actually know who retired "20 times"? Unless you've got your character sitting on some leeching server I don't know about sucking up xp and gold while you're at work, I highly doubt anyone has retired this many times. I've been playing for about a month and am just now getting to 31.
This game just feels like one big grind for the smallest amount of reward possible. Running around in peasent gear saving up your gold getting killed by a tin cans all day who seem to have unlimited funds to pay for their upkeep costs. Upkeep costs don't add anything to the game and they don't remove inequality between older and newer players, as older players can afford the upkeep costs and newer players can't. Older players can afford the masterwork / lordly armors while newer player can't. The most fun I've had are on my "skip the fun" characters, where you get to skip the boring ass grind and make a fun character. Calling a grind fun doesn't make it fun. It's still a fucking grind.
Retirement was faster in the older days. There ARE guys who retired way over 20 times.
Not really relevant anymore though, is it?
Still, some people retire very fast. You just need to play 24/7. I guess even once a week is possible.
...wtf do the devs think this game should be wow?
Most people don't do it that fast and the mod/game is still mostly skill based. So no, this is still far from WoW.
Skill is only a factor after gear and ping are taken into account. A boring ass is grind is still a boring ass grind, and that's what the economics of the game force you to do, grind for better gear so you're eventually not a one shot target anymore. Sure it's fun for the my old friends who have been playing since day 1 on their plated charger tin can set ups with 1 million+ gold, but for newer players it gets old quick.
Are you saying that you can't get heavy armor and a decent amount of gold to afford upkeep in a few days? Also skill>gear in this game, sweetheart.
Boring ass grind? I play the game because I like to play it, not to grind. From my perspective, there is no grind.
You forgot ping.
How much gold do you have? How many loomed items do you have? Be honest.
You forgot ping.
How much gold do you have? How many loomed items do you have? Be honest.
Yes, I forgot ping. Ping is a strong factor in this game, especially in duels with skilled people.
I'm currently at 70k gold and three +3 (masterworks/lordly) items. Generation 6, retired 4 times in the new system, without the mega gen xp bonuses.
Not sure what all this could tell you, though.
No, actually, the grind is MORE rewarding when you don't already have your stuff. Obviously. Because then you have something to look forward to, and y'know, get rewarded at the end by something that matters.
You can still compete with 80 ping. 15 ping doesn't make you a superman.
I personally think the grind sucks when all your equipment is subpar and you're getting killed by tin cans left and right. I'd rather have weapons that give me a real chance against those tin cans, it makes the grind more interesting rather than always fighting a losing fight and having some asshole like spooksland gloating about how great he is after each kill. That kind of grind gets old fast.
15 ping doesn't make you a superman.
Of course not. But makes a huge difference.
Well I've never had it, but I doubt it's that huge. Sure it's a difference and I wish I had that ping, but it's not like you become a defenseless sheep if you have 50 higher ping.
Just sayin' you have a lot of gear that other people are still grinding to get. It's much more rewarding when your gear is already superior to everyone else's. A long ass grind doesn't seem that bad when you already have the items everyone else are forced to grind for.
Bullshit. 20 times? Who do you actually know who retired "20 times"?Dozens of guys. Myself, i've retired 12 times and i have several level 28+ alts.
I've been playing for about a month and am just now getting to 31.Some of us can level our characters from 1 to 31 in two or three weeks.
Running around in peasent gear saving up your gold getting killed by a tin cans all day who seem to have unlimited funds to pay for their upkeep costs.That tin can has to pay upkeep also! It would be much worse without upkeep for new players, trust me.
Older players can afford the masterwork / lordly armors while newer player can't.Wrong: heirloomed items are not more expensive to upkeep.
I understand why people think heirloomed items cost more to upkeep. My MW Danish costs 34k if I equip it on my character site. If you think you can upkeep 40k of gear and look at the total gear costs on the site, you really get the wrong idea. I think it should just display the regular price, this is very confusing. It's not like anyone is going to sell his looms to the bank anyway.
Bullshit. 20 times? Who do you actually know who retired "20 times"? Unless you've got your character sitting on some leeching server I don't know about sucking up xp and gold while you're at work, I highly doubt anyone has retired this many times. I've been playing for about a month and am just now getting to 31.
A couple of players discovered that you could join multiple servers at once and receive full xp and gold for being in each of them, they were never punished for this but the bug was fixed.
15 gens later, I get 7100 xp at x5 now. The extra 2k helps in my grind to lvl 33. Also, more money if you sell items/ loom points.
I've been playing since last august and I only retired once. With a horse archer build, low levels are a pain in the arse. My money has never been over 80k and is slowly going down since the upkeep is going up every patch. I will retire again the day it will be mandatory.
Dozens of guys. Myself, i've retired 12 times and i have several level 28+ alts.So obviously you're out of touch with what's it's like to be new in this game.
What you fail to realize, i think, is that some of us have been playing c-rpg for over a year. :)
Some of us can level our characters from 1 to 31 in two or three weeks.Do "some of us" also maintain a healthy social life and work 50-60 hours per week?
That tin can has to pay upkeep also!Lol, you sound like a republican trying to defend tax breaks for the wealthy.
Wrong: heirloomed items are not more expensive to upkeep.I wasn't talking about upkeep, I was talking about buying the items second hand on the marketplace.
Anyway, you'll have some perspective when you've played the game a bit longer.Ah, the stupid-nubs-don't-know-anything argument. Nice to see such lazy thinking from the admins.
The upkeep system is a very important innovation that does help the balance between old and new players.You're joking right? The inequality between old and new players is painfully obvious. Just go on any server and you'll see the same tin cans doing the same thing all day.
I agree that old players have an advantage, but that advantage isn't just because of gear or a gold stockpile. It's mostly experience and skill that make the difference.Lol, you're lying to yourself if you think "skill" is mostly responsible for your KD ratio. Sad to see an admin who's so naive about an online game.
The advantage heirlooms give you is small. Also, some players kick ass with a scythe at level 15, because they are just that damned good. It's not just their gear.Please, by all means, name these players who are crushing tin cans on plated chargers with their scythes, I'm all ears.
There are a few mechanisms that 'help' new players. For example: you don't pay upkeep on gen 1 up to level 25 and you can make a new skip the fun character every week to try out builds.A new player isn't someone below 25, a new player is someone who's still on their second generation and doesn't have 5+ heirloomed items. Earlier in this thread people were talking about what a big difference heirlooms make. I guess they're wrong though, eh? You know why so many players are continually respeccing to stay below 26? It's because upkeep costs are fucking excessive, ruin the fun and turn the game into a boring ass grind.
Myself, i love retiring.You must love doing anything when you have retired as many times as I'm guessing you have and you have accumulated such excesses in heirloomed gear and gold.
Ages ago, crpg did not have retirement. Everybody just kept grinding and the differences between old and new players just got bigger and bigger...You had to be 'peasant' for months, dying to plate-armored, flamberge-wielding, armored-horse-riding level 40+ characters.I played for a couple weeks when this mod was first released (been playing warband since day 1). It's still like that, it's just they have a ton of heirloomed items now instead of a couple extra levels. In order to make any gold you still have to be a peasent for months wearing shit gear and getting 1-shotted by 2h spamming heirloomed tin cans who then go on the forums and chalk it up to skill and are general dicks to newer players telling them they just need to grind more and it will all be better.
Trust me, retirement is a great way to level the playing field a bit.Based on my experience here the past couple weeks, you're wrong. It's a horrible leveling function.
I'm not saying heirlooms, a few hundred thousand gold and a good selection of gear doesn't give any advantage.Are you sure, because from what I've read in the rest of your post, it sort of sounds like you're saying it doesn't and that performance differences and enjoyment levels are 90% based on skill.
I'm just saying it could be much worse.This is a retarded statement. Anything can be worse. Name a situation and I can tell you how it could be worse. A starving kid in africa could complain to me about not having food and I could say to him, "well there sonny boy, it could be worse, at least you don't have aids, why are you complaining?".
And about 'the gind'. Son, just stop grinding. You will get there eventually. :wink:I think you should reroll a level one account with no heirlooms and no friends helping you out, start as a peasent and just "ignore the grind," just "focus on winning," (even though you have no influence over the outcome of the game as a peasant unless you count throwing ladders or distracting the enemy for a glorious 2-3 seconds it takes them to catch and one shot you.
Focus on enjoying the game, focus on winning,
focus on trying to organize your team into a good fighting group insteadwho the hell is going to listen to the new scrub who tries to boss everyone around, I know i'm not...
If you're worried about money, consider selling your first heirloom point. It brings in 400 000 gold or more, if you're lucky. Or if you don't prefer using the more expensive items, instead heirloom something you use a lot. Or don't retire at all. Consider making alts. You can kick ass without heirlooms. Instead, focus on getting the right build, the right equipment and most importantly, the right play style.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, look at the game with a more long term perspective. It's a game you play many months. Don't grind, instead, try to enjoy the challenges the game gives you. Know it's not fair... know some of your opponents have an advantage... the victory should be even sweeter. :)I have no incentive to win, as I have no influence over the outcome of battle matches as a new player. The only incentive is that eventually I'll be able to make a character that will stand an equal chance against these older players, because right now it's a boring, unrewarding grind where you stand little chance in battle and have to deal with stupid dick old players who chalk up their repeated victories to "skill". Give me a ton of gold / xp for killing a heirloomed tin can 2h spammer and I might actually consider trying. Until then there's no point. I'm just forced to sit there like a sponge and collect the xp like welfare checks, saving them so hopefully one day I can afford to compete.
Many people retire just so they can try out new builds, while some actually enjoy leveling back up (POOPHAMMER).
However, the equipment stat increases are not miniscule. They can make a large difference when you have several masterworked items. But you'll still be fine without them.
Do I need to quote chadz again on why we need upkeep? :|
I shall wait for the responses against the second most recent post though.
We need upkeep so gen 1 people struggle their balls off the maintain their gear for their painful grind to 31 so higher gen players who sold looms/loom points and have large stockpiles of millions of gold and heirlooms can trump around in full plate and plated chargers all they want so they can smite the poor weak peasants back into the hole they crawled out from+1000
Strange, this poor weak peasant made it with no difficulty. I guess I am, not surprisingly, just better then everyone.
What's your ping?
Wait free upkeep? Where?Back when upkeep was in effect even at level 1 instead of less then 26 like it is now. I earned every penny on those accounts. With the new "free upkeep" for newbies, you will earn slightly less then 96,500 gold by the time you hit level 26 for the first time. That is enough to buy very nice gear and have a reserve big enough to take any "bad day" without going broke. If I did my characters now the same way that I did back then, then it would be obviously even easier and my alt characters would be filthy rich in comparison.
Swahili_Zulu_Mon:
I see your point. Yet there is one problem with what is being discussed.
If we want cRPG to be a game, where you have the feeling of developing your character then it is hard to avoid discrepancies between newer players and veterans.
If we do not want cPRG to be a game where you have this development, why not just play native?
Other games are larger so that they can sort the servers compared to your level, cRPG can't.
Call it grind or call it development. It is not for everyone but it gives a sense of achievement.
And if I had found the game boring I would never have "developed" my way through 9 gens over a year of playing.
Add to that, I do not believe that your guesstimation of skill/heirloom ratio concerning victory is correct.
Skills is 95% heirlooms is 5%... even after 12 gens.
Ooooh, breaking down my post and saying "wrong" after each of my sentences... I see what you did there... Do you really want to have a conversation like this? Alright... if you insist.
So obviously you're out of touch with what's it's like to be new in this game.
Do "some of us" also maintain a healthy social life and work 50-60 hours per week? Lol, you sound like a republican trying to defend tax breaks for the wealthy.
I wasn't talking about upkeep, I was talking about buying the items second hand on the marketplace.
Ah, the stupid-nubs-don't-know-anything argument. Nice to see such lazy thinking from the admins.
You're joking right? The inequality between old and new players is painfully obvious. Just go on any server and you'll see the same tin cans doing the same thing all day. Lol, you're lying to yourself if you think "skill" is mostly responsible for your KD ratio. Sad to see an admin who's so naive about an online game.
Please, by all means, name these players who are crushing tin cans on plated chargers with their scythes, I'm all ears.
A new player isn't someone below 25, a new player is someone who's still on their second generation and doesn't have 5+ heirloomed items. Earlier in this thread people were talking about what a big difference heirlooms make. I guess they're wrong though, eh? You know why so many players are continually respeccing to stay below 26? It's because upkeep costs are fucking excessive, ruin the fun and turn the game into a boring ass grind.
You must love doing anything when you have retired as many times as I'm guessing you have and you have accumulated such excesses in heirloomed gear and gold.
I played for a couple weeks when this mod was first released (been playing warband since day 1). It's still like that, it's just they have a ton of heirloomed items now instead of a couple extra levels. In order to make any gold you still have to be a peasent for months wearing shit gear and getting 1-shotted by 2h spamming heirloomed tin cans who then go on the forums and chalk it up to skill and are general dicks to newer players telling them they just need to grind more and it will all be better.
Based on my experience here the past couple weeks, you're wrong. It's a horrible leveling function.
Are you sure, because from what I've read in the rest of your post, it sort of sounds like you're saying it doesn't and that performance differences and enjoyment levels are 90% based on skill.
This is a retarded statement. Anything can be worse. Name a situation and I can tell you how it could be worse. A starving kid in africa could complain to me about not having food and I could say to him, "well there sonny boy, it could be worse, at least you don't have aids, why are you complaining?".
I think you should reroll a level one account with no heirlooms and no friends helping you out, start as a peasent and just "ignore the grind," just "focus on winning," (even though you have no influence over the outcome of the game as a peasant unless you count throwing ladders or distracting the enemy for a glorious 2-3 seconds it takes them to catch and one shot you.
who the hell is going to listen to the new scrub who tries to boss everyone around, I know i'm not...
Could you be more condescending please, I don't think you're being condescending enough here. You honestly believe new players aren't thinking about this as they grind round after round having very little influence on the game? And you out of touch mods and admins get mad at all the leechers. Maybe make the game a bit more insteresting during the "fun" part (aka boring ass fucking grind), and maybe the amount of leeching my decline a bit. Ever consider that?
I have no incentive to win, as I have no influence over the outcome of battle matches as a new player. The only incentive is that eventually I'll be able to make a character that will stand an equal chance against these older players, because right now it's a boring, unrewarding grind where you stand little chance in battle and have to deal with stupid dick old players who chalk up their repeated victories to "skill". Give me a ton of gold / xp for killing a heirloomed tin can 2h spammer and I might actually consider trying. Until then there's no point. I'm just forced to sit there like a sponge and collect the xp like welfare checks, saving them so hopefully one day I can afford to compete.
Your current upkeep system turns this game into a boring grind and it's made worse by a bunch of forum chocolate chip cookie old players attacking anyone who complains about it.
Swahili_Zulu_Mon:
I see your point. Yet there is one problem with what is being discussed.
If we want cRPG to be a game, where you have the feeling of developing your character then it is hard to avoid discrepancies between newer players and veterans.
If we do not want cPRG to be a game where you have this development, why not just play native?
Other games are larger so that they can sort the servers compared to your level, cRPG can't.
Call it grind or call it development. It is not for everyone but it gives a sense of achievement.
And if I had found the game boring I would never have "developed" my way through 9 gens over a year of playing.
Add to that, I do not believe that your guesstimation of skill/heirloom ratio concerning victory is correct.
Skills is 95% heirlooms is 5%... even after 12 gens.
What's your ping?
Wrong.
The game has evolved substantially, and is much easier for new players to compete that it ever has been.
If you stopped complaining about looms and gold and ping for a moment you'd notice that it isn't very hard to get some decent gear and compete with players provided you lern2play. I got the majority of the gear I've ever had by gen 2, and haven't had problems with gold since that time.
Phazey was right: if you stick around and gain battle awareness and other skills you'll see how little looms & ping really matter. I'm not going to lie and say that looms don't help (they obviously do) nor am I going to say that someone with 30 ping isn't going to have an advantage against someone with 150 ping (they obviously will) but you seem to be trying to find any way to justify to yourself why you aren't as good as other people.
Truth hurts sometimes.
Try leveling up a new character with the new upkeep system (upkeep got much harsher after the last patch). Come talk after you've finished your first gen without any heirlooms, extra gold / gear from friends, or other crutches.
Mind if I ask what your ping is?
I have, and it is even easier then before.^ wut he said.
Sorry pic is small: 17 kills 6 deaths. But oh wait is that someone with HIGH PING leading the team with 26 kills 6 deaths? Impossible!