We here at LLJK have realized exactly how glorious Pecores, and the french in general, are! As such we have decided to announce that we will be becoming a pecores vassal effective immediately, we will be turning over all fiefs and troops immediately
Let's take a look at thebelgianfrenchAmerican accomplishments of the past!
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wait, shit
They may have won, but at the cost of so many innocent lives.Wow, those Americans must be some real assholes. Aren't you glad your country never has massive innocent casualties when they win a war?
/End thread.
We definitely lost vietnam.
I'll leave it on a note here, France has won more wars than any other nation on the planet currently. Both France and Great Britain share a spot for having both of the highest percentages of victory throughout history.
I'll leave it on a note here, France has won more wars than any other nation on the planet currently. Both France and Great Britain share a spot for having both of the highest percentages of victory throughout history.
A conflict (not a war) commanded by the white house, not the military.
And that was France's fault in the first place, after they got their asses kicked at Dien Bien Phu. In fact the United States won every major engagement in Vietnam, including completely destroying the Tet offensive. The only reason it is considered a "Loss" is because they left. That is like beating the crap out of someone and then leaving and having people say you lost.
(click to show/hide)
I'll leave it on a note here, France has won more wars than any other nation on the planet currently. Both France and Great Britain share a spot for having both of the highest percentages of victory throughout history.I wouldn't be surprised if France and Great Britian have the greatest number of victories, but I find it hard to believe that anybody has a better percentage than the US.
It would have been more similar to you beating up a kid, only to have him continuously and ferociously get up every time you knocked him down until the point of you getting so tired and worn out that you walked away from the fight.
Whats this Vietnam stuff?Man the way you describe the US reminds me of those BRD backstabbers,
America has only ever declared war 5 times...
1: War of 1812
2: Mexican-American War
3: Spanish-American War
4: WW1
5: WW2
they have been peace loving and friendly for over 60 years now. Unless they are sneaky backstabbers who dont even declare war on other factions when they attack! SNEAKY!
But you know what Angle.
America won every damn one of those.
you are kidding right? : )
edit: scrolling further through this thread showed me that -sadly- you were not kidding.
historians in general do agree that the US have not won a single war since WW2.
Not Vietnam, not Korea, not Afghanistan and none of the wars in Irak
oh noes! they are forcing you to learn to love america in order to get your citizenship?! THOSE BASTARDS!
I know right. I probably know more about America than most Americans. Nevertheless, I love the country I want to call my home. Regardless of how everyone portrays it to be a bunch of heartless capitalists. It is a substantial improvement from living in an impoverished socialist country.So where didja come from then? and did you know that if you head north far enough you find a place far better than America? :D
Also sigged for truthfulness. (That is a word right?)
A conflict (not a war) commanded by the white house, not the military.
And that was France's fault in the first place, after they got their asses kicked at Dien Bien Phu. In fact the United States won every major engagement in Vietnam, including completely destroying the Tet offensive. The only reason it is considered a "Loss" is because they left. That is like beating the crap out of someone and then leaving and having people say you lost.
you are kidding right? : )
edit: scrolling further through this thread showed me that -sadly- you were not kidding.
historians in general do agree that the US have not won a single war since WW2.
Not Vietnam, not Korea, not Afghanistan and none of the wars in Irak
about the past ...Lol, Guantanamo is a prison camp.... Vietnam was obviously won by rocky and Chuck Norris.....and Afghanistan is still ongoing(aka, not lost).
what about Guantanamo, Vietnam, Afghanistan(fixed)....
So where didja come from then? and did you know that if you head north far enough you find a place far better than America? :D
A conflict (not a war) commanded by the white house, not the military.
And that was France's fault in the first place, after they got their asses kicked at Dien Bien Phu. In fact the United States won every major engagement in Vietnam, including completely destroying the Tet offensive. The only reason it is considered a "Loss" is because they left. That is like beating the crap out of someone and then leaving and having people say you lost.
:Edit: For clarification, I am not an American, but when I say "we" I am referring to United States citizens. A girl can dream.
You will never be one of us. :wink:(click to show/hide)
I'm starting to think you're right, applied for citizenship 5 years ago, and have been living here on a visa ever since. Been denied once already.
That is your key mistake.
America hasn't been in any wars since WWII. Furthermore historians "In general" agree on nothing, a sampling perhaps agree with your viewpoint. There are simply too many variables in the viewing, interpreting, and deconstructing of history for them to agree on anything solidly. If we (the public, including historians) had more up to date information on WWII, WWI, and all of the United States's previous wars, (that is to say, the same amount of information that we are receiving regarding wars since the popularization of the television) it is likely that "in general" people would view all wars as a loss. Because they are, all wars are a loss.
With that in mind, to say simply because more information is available concerning the conditions that America "Hasn't won a war since WWII" is slightly if not profoundly ignorant. The hard information (casualty reports and political documents) that said the USA won WWI, WWII, and many other wars says that they did in fact also win Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. The primary difference is that the public isn't looking at the same information that says we are winning, they are looking at wounded veterans and empty chairs where their loved ones sat. Statistically the US has won every conflict. Emotionally they have lost everything since the popularization of mass media.
That is the clincher. So don't "Are you kidding me?" :evil:
Anyone with a reasonable understanding of contemporary American history and two brain cells to rub together would understand that.
I'm starting to think you're right, applied for citizenship 5 years ago, and have been living here on a visa ever since. Been denied once already.
You were literally 12 years old 5 years ago. Just wait a little longer, get a job or marry someone, then apply.
TLDR: Shit happens, USA fucked up Vietcong, Hippies are bundle of stickss and I know my history better than Nihtgenga.
I am really starting to like Anwyl, we should keep her. She has the perfect mentalities and attitude about things.
I like bunnies.So do I!
You're not so bad yourself. Furthermore, I don't plan on going anywhere, but I also don't really play crpg anymore.Intriguing, why do you make other people on campus uncomfortable?
Nevertheless the forums give me somewhere to be awesome without making people on campus uncomfortable.
So do I!
I'm a bit too old for the internet nowadays, so please tell me: Is this kind of behaviour what people call "trolling"? If so, I'm really disappointed :/
Still you're saying that a "conflict" with more than 1mio casualties is no war.
Intriguing, why do you make other people on campus uncomfortable?
Most people don't like honesty. It's terrible.
You are too old for the internet or too old for young people? There is a difference.
And no, I was not trolling.
I give you an A+ in reading comprehension, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Honestly?
EDIT: WHY CAN I NEVER POST FASTER THAN TEARS???
Nonsense, Campus at NAU is plenty fun. In between all of the stupid outdoors exercises, dread-wearing hippies long boarding down north and south campus, and the ultra weird indie kids playing tunes from Cultures they probably don't even understand, there is plenty more to do at NAU besides drink and "get scored upon"
Coy is just a nerd!(click to show/hide)
Thanks a lot. If you don't see the madness in these words by yourself I can't help you, sorry.
Have a job, and turning 18 tomorrow. Regardless of how old I was when I applied it's still been 5 years. :(
TLDR: Shit happens, USA fucked up Vietcong, Hippies are bundle of stickss and I know my history better than Nihtgenga.
I am on the second floor of the Union overlooking the bookstore, and soon I will be headed north to the Liberal arts building before taking, San Francisco to Pine Knoll, and going home. Believe me now?
War- n. - a legal state created by a declaration of war and ended by official declaration during which the international rules of war apply
ergo no declaration, no war. Vietnam was an American "conflict" and a French "war"
The term "Vietnam Conflict" is largely a U.S. designation, it acknowledges that the United States Congress never declared war on North Vietnam. Legally, the President used his constitutional discretionsupplemented by supportive resolutions in Congressto conduct what was said to be a police action.[citation needed]
Honestly?Tears is a robot
EDIT: WHY CAN I NEVER POST FASTER THAN TEARS???
Tears is a robotAgreed!
No, in other words different languages have different meanings of the word "war" and that the American Schools teach that the English Language is a bloody mess and that the Political Definition of War is radically different then the Military Definition of War.
With other words: Americans really get taught in school that the Vietnam War was no war just because it wasn't declared? Please tell me that I'm wrong...
No, in other words different languages have different meanings of the word "war" and that the American Schools teach that the English Language is a bloody mess and that the Political Definition of War is radically different then the Military definition of War.
its just a political thing...not a language thing
politicians dont like the word war so they use the word conflict...but as we see in the case of Anwyl, this little word play really does work on the average american.
Why the fuck was this moved to spam? LLJK isn't allowed to have diplomatic discussions, just because the topic itself goes off topic?
Fuck you cmp, you hypocritical bundle of sticks.
Smooth job not reading the thread.
it's because of the man who believes that when he cries people's dreams come true
She is not American, nor average. Smooth job not reading the thread.
The English language is so massively fucked up that to this very day we have Lawyers and Politicians and "Experts" and Military men alike all argueing what constitutes a war and blah blah blah. To be perfectly blunt Ginosaji, you are not going to win this arguement for no one ever does in this country. You are both right, and wrong. Next time, find a more sane language to argue in, not this unadulterated bucket of shit that is callled the English Language, which finds other languages in dark alleys, mugs them, and pilfurs through their pockets for loose grammar that it will "modify" later on.
I did read the thread but as far as I know she/he is 17, turning 18 tomorrow, lived in the states for at least 5 years (as she applied for the citizenship 5 years ago the first time) and therefore had an american (highschool) education??!!
Furthermore she/he states in every sentence herself/himself as an american and uses the "we", stating that she/he feels like an american.
But if I am wrong and you in generel apply for american citizenship while you are in your original country, than I am sorry : )
Ban all these people spamming our diplomatic discussion, and remove cmpmy old friends admin for not taking appropriate action.
American = American Citizen.
Her Application was denied, she is not an American, though I hope she becomes one in the future.
I did understand this, howsoever you can live in america, go to an american highschool etc. without beeing an american citizen.
I never said that you were a liar, just a nerd. :wink:
We supposedly go to the same university
This little thing called a VISA that every country has.
wow...are you not getting what I am saying?
If I ask if she had an american education because I understood that she lived in America for at least 5 years, you come with VISA? How unrelated is that?
I did understand this, howsoever you can live in america, go to an american highschool etc. without beeing an american citizen.
I responded to the bolded part. The VISA is completely related.
NOW BOW TO ME FOR I AM YOUR GOD.
It does not matter her education, nor her age etc. There is a clear cut definition and criteria for being an American, though being fat and lazy and stupid helps.... but that is optional.
I said that it was a "conflict" not a "war" by the international laws governing what is and is not a war.
ok...lets do this again
More bullshit...
I know that she is not legally an american, but again, thats not the point ;-)
It's ridiculous, but please give me a link to a copy of that international law.
Well fuck... if we can do things and ignore the definitions, then ... I am your world leader, and you are my wife. I am also a citizen of every country ever known to man.
Clever and well known move.
start trolling whenever you reach an impasse. So great : )
I am not the dumbass saying "well I know she is not legally an American nor was she born there, but fucking hell since she has lived there for a couple of years she is American."
Well then I am American and Ojibwe and German and Turkish then! Fuck yeah! Some of my education was in Turkey, at the very least that counts!
America isn't a nation, its just a gaggle of Hicks and rich folks flying a giant DON'T TREAD ON ME flag/
Okay. Her knowledge regarding this topic or her opinion about it was definetely not formed before she was 12 but rather between 14 and 18, during her highshool years in America. Therefore it is quite an important point to this conversation. And again, in every sentence she states herself as american, do you need any more proof? SHE HERSELF SAYS IT!
and good job on quitting the trolling by calling me dumbass.
http://www.icrc.org/eng/war-and-law/treaties-customary-law/geneva-conventions/index.jsp
Protocol I Article 2
"The Conventions apply to all cases of declared war between signatory nations."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war
you and i both know that international law does not affect entities that are not states. Furthermore, the reality of modern warfare is that a declaration of war is no longer needed, because no one fights honourably. If war was defined as requiring a "declaration of war" then The vietnamese-cambodian war was not a war because no decaration was issued, even though every other part of war exists. The modern distinction of war and conflict is just political semantics to get the retards from not realizing that PEOPLE ARE DYING DUE TO BULLETS AND SHIT. There is no practical difference between an armed conflict and a war.
I'm sorry if that isn't exactly making sense the way I'm wording it. English isn't my first language (as it isn't many peoples here) but I'm trying the best I can.
I can really see where some of you guys are coming from
I'm not saying that armed conflict is any less horrible for having a declaration of war. It is simply that there are guidelines deciding what can be called a war under the Geneva convention. As no war has been declared (in quite a while) there is no protection provided underneath the convention for those involved, with exceptions provided within the Protocols and articles.
I'm sorry if that isn't exactly making sense the way I'm wording it. English isn't my first language (as it isn't many peoples here) but I'm trying the best I can.
You are making sense, just some people are putting personal beliefs before what the legal and language definitions are of War.
Is it practically the same thing? You bet, but are they the exact same thing? No.
Deal with it folks. Unfortunately, the language and legal definitions say a specific thing on this. I can really see where some of you guys are coming from, but the laws are pretty clear on this.
and that would be?
the "law" is obsolete, modern wars are never declared. THe geneva convention is a peice of shit that no one follows anyways, it's just words. Like Pompey Magnus said "stop quoting law, we carry swords"
Obviously they are coming from where they are typing (that it is mainly the same thing for the actions involved are the same). However, the clear difference between a long series of Conflicts, and a War, is that they have different Political Ramifications, even though the actions are near identical, and that is where opinions differ in this thread (despite the laws being very clear on this).
i get what your saying, but i'm saying that the modern trend towards avoiding the use of war is to hide the fact that armed conflicts are happening without any formal declaration of war and are in violation of the Geneva convention, OR it is a loophole to hide the fact that the belligerant is engaging in the acts of war, without needing to formally declare and thus keeping the war "quiet" so that internal dissent does not force the belligerant to withdraw. War is another game of politics, we can talk about how militarly you won, proof with stats and whatnot, but if a war does no fulfill it's political objectives, then it is a loss, and all those casualties were in vain.
how are political results of a war of independance different from a conflict of independance?
Supposedly, implying general disbelief.
Usually, if we look at history, it depends on if the historians and the politicians agree on if it was a civil war or just civil unrest. Basically, who won and how "involved" did certain parties get?
History is usually written by the winners, and rarely corrected.
Ok so lets look at the american war of independance vs the second indochina war. The first war, there was a declaration of independance, but no declaration of war. How can you the American war of independance a war if there were no declaration of war?
thank god for 20th century historical revisionism.
We called it a war because we "won" it and told them to bugger off, and the British called it something else (avoided the term war) because there was no official declaration and did not recognize us as a nation so even if we sent them a declaration of war they would not have recognized it anyways.
Double standard? Yup. Also back then there were less legalities for what constituted a war, and was largely believed that if you attacked someone it was a war (a nice, sane way to look at things instead of the needlessly complicated thing we have now), so if held to modern day standards I am not sure what it would be called (likely would be nit picked at and disputed all the same).
Indeed, wait another hundred or two and we will likely have a clear cut "yes it was a real war" instead of the political semantics we have now on the matter.
It is extremely important to note that what one culture/government calls a war another may disagree. It obviously is and was a war in some other nations and languages, due to different more sane criteria.
so might makes right, lululul. Why bother quoting law? Why don't you admit that international law is just a smokescreen to blind the masses to the real world? War is armed conflict, no matter how much people quote stupid laws to justify semantics.
I mentioned that earlier in one of my posts, that Ginowhatshisname could not win this argument because the Political and Military definitions differ radically on what constitutes a war, and that he is both simultaneously right and wrong.
I admitted it from the start the various inconsistencies.
Fact of the matter is, due to how convoluted the laws AND the English Language is on War as a subject, both you and our charming Anwyl are right and wrong. She was posting sane and logical arguments from the start, even quoting the perfect sources, and you were making sane and logical arguments as well.
Welcome to what going through college and sitting through various "Political Sciences" and "Argumentative Writing" classes will do to you... They ruin people :/
im more right because i have guns bitch!
Good thing LLJK that was zeh best thing to do!
now this topic have been way too long about america without someone mention the other country in north america
Btw, watch this, my first post was so awesome no one read it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-yldqNkGfo
@Tears: Please show me the clear law. Anwyl's link to the Geneva Conventions didn't include a definition of war, at least not in Protocol I, Article 2.
No. This conversation is now officially boring. Agree to disagree, or just think you are right and I am wrong. Other more entertaining threads are now afoot and I don't want to rehash another tiring topic that occures 3 times a year every year at every university, and every year in politics. I made my points, you made your points, anything further and we will be going in circles. At this point I think people are too combative and not listening well enough at this point. More importantly, I don't give a fuck anymore and all that argumentative energy I had earlier is gone, spent on other things.
I already explained earlier in a few recent posts that there was a difference in semantics and why those differences existed. But yes, I do understand your point. Best of luck. I for one will take my mentally disabled and retarded mind to sleep soon, as I don't think I can properly explain any better why there exist the subleties that are sometimes missed in the differences betwee the two "types" of war Political definition and Military definition.Take care, and have a good day.
Consider this a cultural difference in language that would be near impossible to understand unless you grew up here (and in the right places, since the US is practically 5 dozen different cultures that differ depending on which state/territory you live in, each with different laws mentalities and traditions).
We are our own special brand of crazy.