LLJK bends the knee to Pecores

[The_Angle]

I'll leave it on a note here, France has won more wars than any other nation on the planet currently. Both France and Great Britain share a spot for having both of the highest percentages of victory throughout history.

[Cowstomper]

I'll leave it on a note here, France has won more wars than any other nation on the planet currently. Both France and Great Britain share a spot for having both of the highest percentages of victory throughout history.

Superior IRL KDRs

[a_bear_irl]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2005/dec/27/eu.turkey

famines that killed between 12 and 29 million Indians
Anti-Charitable Contributions Act of 1877 prohibited "at the pain of imprisonment private relief donations that potentially interfered with the market fixing of grain prices
soldiers were told they could shoot anyone they liked "provided they were black"
"slicing off ears, boring holes in eardrums, flogging until death, pouring paraffin over suspects who were then set alight, and burning eardrums with lit cigarettes"

[Anwyl]

I'll leave it on a note here, France has won more wars than any other nation on the planet currently. Both France and Great Britain share a spot for having both of the highest percentages of victory throughout history.

Yea we'll just forget all of those wars France lost since 1915.

[The_Angle]

@That bear guy.

Irrelevant to the topic.





Also, Patriots out there.
Get mad! : D

[Darkkarma]

A conflict (not a war) commanded by the white house, not the military.

And that was France's fault in the first place, after they got their asses kicked at Dien Bien Phu. In fact the United States won every major engagement in Vietnam, including completely destroying the Tet offensive. The only reason it is considered a "Loss" is because they left. That is like beating the crap out of someone and then leaving and having people say you lost.

(click to show/hide)

You could call it tea and crumpets if you wanted. In alot of ways, it's comparing apples to apples.  There is a reason the US has not officially gone to "war" in years. The main goal in war is to completely eliminate your enemy, which  was not the goal  in Vietnam. I agree that Politicians tried to run the war who had no idea of the tenacity of the Vietcong whom their troops were up against. Still, you can't tell me that some of the greatest military minds at the time weren't doing their best to try and bring the Vietnam Conflict to an end. The Vietcong were willing to die in combat for their defense of Vietnam, while the average US soldier wasn't willing to do the same and give his life for a foreign country that did not appreciate his presence, which is completely understandable considering every soldier was assumed to be committing atrocities like those at Mai Lai.

The fact that America won every "major engagement" is a given, we had the clear military superiority but as history has show time and again, military superiority is not a sure fire way to win conflicts. Guerrilla warfare and the unbreakable spirit of a nation that had suffered through years of oppression  is what lost America that war. Even if America had eventually settled Vietnam, it would have been at the cost of many more American lives, the proportion of kills to deaths would have been considered an even bigger military fiasco. The only way to truly settle the country would have been to nuke it completely, something no war historian would have considered a victory.

Bringing order to Vietnam would have cost thousands more lives and millions of dollars over the course of many years before we would have seen any kind of solid or progress being made. The costs would have greatly outweighed the benefits(the major benefit being the "containment" of communism). That and massive lack of home support and morale is why we left Vietnam. It would have been more similar to you beating up a kid, only to have him continuously and ferociously get up every time you knocked him down until the point of you getting so tired and worn out that you walked away from the fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHjSHGqTBxM

[Matey]

Whats this Vietnam stuff?

America has only ever declared war 5 times...
1: War of 1812
2: Mexican-American War
3: Spanish-American War
4: WW1
5: WW2

they have been peace loving and friendly for over 60 years now. Unless they are sneaky backstabbers who dont even declare war on other factions when they attack! SNEAKY!

[Anwyl]

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It would have been more similar to you beating up a kid, only to have him continuously and ferociously get up every time you knocked him down until the point of you getting so tired and worn out that you walked away from the fight.

Still a win in my book.

Then again my people were under the oppressive heel of Great Britain for hundreds of years. I can admit we lost, despite stern resistance and eventually getting (partial) independence.

So perhaps Vietnam isn't a win, but it is most certainly not a loss. More of a "we don't give a shit anymore about French Indochina."


@Matey technically no one ever said America lost a war. Despite you know, having the capitol burned to the ground in 1812.

[Dehitay]

I'll leave it on a note here, France has won more wars than any other nation on the planet currently. Both France and Great Britain share a spot for having both of the highest percentages of victory throughout history.

I wouldn't be surprised if France and Great Britian have the greatest number of victories, but I find it hard to believe that anybody has a better percentage than the US.

[Matey]

It would have been more similar to you beating up a kid, only to have him continuously and ferociously get up every time you knocked him down until the point of you getting so tired and worn out that you walked away from the fight.

thats how strat works!

[Huey Newton]

Whats this Vietnam stuff?

America has only ever declared war 5 times...
1: War of 1812
2: Mexican-American War
3: Spanish-American War
4: WW1
5: WW2

they have been peace loving and friendly for over 60 years now. Unless they are sneaky backstabbers who dont even declare war on other factions when they attack! SNEAKY!

Man the way you describe the US reminds me of those BRD backstabbers,

cant be trusted

[Nihtgenga]

But you know what Angle.

America won every damn one of those.

you are kidding right? : )

edit: scrolling further through this thread showed me that -sadly- you were not kidding.
historians in general do agree that the US have not won a single war since WW2.

Not Vietnam, not Korea, not Afghanistan and none of the wars in Irak

[Anwyl]

you are kidding right? : )

edit: scrolling further through this thread showed me that -sadly- you were not kidding.
historians in general do agree that the US have not won a single war since WW2.

Not Vietnam, not Korea, not Afghanistan and none of the wars in Irak

That is your key mistake.

America hasn't been in any wars since WWII. Furthermore historians "In general" agree on nothing, a sampling perhaps agree with your viewpoint. There are simply too many variables in the viewing, interpreting, and deconstructing of history for them to agree on anything solidly. If we (the public, including historians) had more up to date information on WWII, WWI, and all of the United States's previous wars, (that is to say, the same amount of information that we are receiving regarding wars since the popularization of the television) it is likely that "in general" people would view all wars as a loss. Because they are, all wars are a loss.

With that in mind, to say simply because more information is available concerning the conditions that America "Hasn't won a war since WWII" is slightly if not profoundly ignorant. The hard information (casualty reports and political documents) that said the USA won WWI, WWII, and many other wars says that they did in fact also win Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. The primary difference is that the public isn't looking at the same information that says we are winning, they are looking at wounded veterans and empty chairs where their loved ones sat. Statistically the US has won every conflict. Emotionally they have lost everything since the popularization of mass media.

That is the clincher. So don't "Are you kidding me?" 
Anyone with a reasonable understanding of contemporary American history and two brain cells to rub together would understand that.

:Edit: For clarification, I am not an American, but when I say "we" I am referring to United States citizens. A girl can dream.

[Matey]

oh noes! they are forcing you to learn to love america in order to get your citizenship?! THOSE BASTARDS!

[Anwyl]

oh noes! they are forcing you to learn to love america in order to get your citizenship?! THOSE BASTARDS!

I know right. I probably know more about America than most Americans. Nevertheless, I love the country I want to call my home. Regardless of how everyone portrays it to be a bunch of heartless capitalists. It is a substantial improvement from living in an impoverished socialist country.

Also sigged for truthfulness. (That is a word right?)