Author Topic: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores  (Read 10251 times)

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Offline Nihtgenga

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #105 on: September 07, 2011, 10:32:40 pm »
i get what your saying, but i'm saying that the modern trend towards avoiding the use of war is to hide the fact that armed conflicts are happening without any formal declaration of war and are in violation of the Geneva convention, OR it is a loophole to hide the fact that the  belligerant is engaging in the acts of war, without needing to formally declare and thus keeping the war "quiet" so that internal dissent does not force the belligerant to withdraw. War is another game of politics, we can talk about how militarly you won, proof with stats and whatnot, but if a war does no fulfill it's political objectives, then it is a loss, and all those casualties were in vain.

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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #106 on: September 07, 2011, 10:32:58 pm »
how are political results of a war of independance different from a conflict of independance?

Usually, if we look at history, it depends on if the historians and the politicians agree on if it was a civil war or just civil unrest. Basically, who won and how "involved" did certain parties get?

History is usually written by the winners, and rarely corrected.
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Offline Darkkarma

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #107 on: September 07, 2011, 10:35:31 pm »


Supposedly, implying general disbelief.

I believe it about as much as i'd believe anything else someone told me without having any real way to verify it, if that makes you feel any better.

Anyway, can we get back to talking about the french? How did this turn into a full blown merikuh discussion?
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #108 on: September 07, 2011, 10:40:10 pm »
Usually, if we look at history, it depends on if the historians and the politicians agree on if it was a civil war or just civil unrest. Basically, who won and how "involved" did certain parties get?

Ok so lets look at the american war of independance vs the second indochina war. The first war, there was a declaration of independance, but no declaration of war. How can you the American war of independance a war if there were no declaration of war?



History is usually written by the winners, and rarely corrected.

thank god for 20th century historical revisionism.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #109 on: September 07, 2011, 10:47:56 pm »
Ok so lets look at the american war of independance vs the second indochina war. The first war, there was a declaration of independance, but no declaration of war. How can you the American war of independance a war if there were no declaration of war?

We called it a war because we "won" it and told them to bugger off, and the British called it something else (avoided the term war) because there was no official declaration and did not recognize us as a nation so even if we sent them a declaration of war they would not have recognized it anyways.

Double standard? Yup. Also back then there were less legalities for what constituted a war, and was largely believed that if you attacked someone it was a war (a nice, sane way to look at things instead of the needlessly complicated thing we have now), so if held to modern day standards I am not sure what it would be called (likely would be nit picked at and disputed all the same).

thank god for 20th century historical revisionism.

Indeed, wait another hundred or two and we will likely have a clear cut "yes it was a real war" instead of the political semantics we have now on the matter.

It is extremely important to note that what one culture/government calls a war another may disagree. It obviously is and was a war in some other nations and languages, due to different more sane criteria.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 10:49:04 pm by Tears_of_Destiny »
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #110 on: September 07, 2011, 10:52:06 pm »
We called it a war because we "won" it and told them to bugger off, and the British called it something else (avoided the term war) because there was no official declaration and did not recognize us as a nation so even if we sent them a declaration of war they would not have recognized it anyways.

Double standard? Yup. Also back then there were less legalities for what constituted a war, and was largely believed that if you attacked someone it was a war (a nice, sane way to look at things instead of the needlessly complicated thing we have now), so if held to modern day standards I am not sure what it would be called (likely would be nit picked at and disputed all the same).


Indeed, wait another hundred or two and we will likely have a clear cut "yes it was a real war" instead of the political semantics we have now on the matter.

It is extremely important to note that what one culture/government calls a war another may disagree. It obviously is and was a war in some other nations and languages, due to different more sane criteria.

so might makes right, lululul. Why bother quoting law? Why don't you admit that international law is just a smokescreen to blind the masses to the real world? War is armed conflict, no matter how much people quote stupid laws to justify semantics.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #111 on: September 07, 2011, 10:55:48 pm »
so might makes right, lululul. Why bother quoting law? Why don't you admit that international law is just a smokescreen to blind the masses to the real world? War is armed conflict, no matter how much people quote stupid laws to justify semantics.

I mentioned that earlier in one of my posts, that Ginowhatshisname could not win this argument because the Political and Military definitions differ radically on what constitutes a war, and that he is both simultaneously right and wrong.

I admitted it from the start the various inconsistencies.

Fact of the matter is, due to how convoluted the laws AND the English Language is on War as a subject, both you and our charming Anwyl are right and wrong. She was posting sane and logical arguments from the start, even quoting the perfect sources, and you were making sane and logical arguments as well.

Welcome to what going through college and sitting through various "Political Sciences" and "Argumentative Writing" classes will do to you... They ruin people :/
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 10:57:34 pm by Tears_of_Destiny »
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2011, 10:58:27 pm »
I mentioned that earlier in one of my posts, that Ginowhatshisname could not win this argument because the Political and Military definitions differ radically on what constitutes a war, and that he is both simultaneously right and wrong.

I admitted it from the start the various inconsistencies.

Fact of the matter is, due to how convoluted the laws AND the English Language is on War as a subject, both you and our charming Anwyl are right and wrong. She was posting sane and logical arguments from the start, even quoting the perfect sources, and you were making sane and logical arguments as well.

Welcome to what going through college and sitting through various "Political Sciences" and "Argumentative Writing" classes will do to you... They ruin people :/

im more right because i have guns bitch!

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2011, 11:00:20 pm »
im more right because i have guns bitch!

Now you got it!

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.....
......

I just realized there is not Thumbs Up emoticon :/
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #114 on: September 08, 2011, 12:56:25 am »
Good thing LLJK that was zeh best thing to do!

now this topic have been way too long about america without someone mention the other country in north america

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that's all I have to say

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Offline Dehitay

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #115 on: September 08, 2011, 01:17:33 am »
Actually, now that I think about it, doesn't Canada have a 100% victory rate for its wars? You savage bastards just don't give up! Just the kind of violent nature I would expect from a major oil producer

Offline Dante_Goujian

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #116 on: September 08, 2011, 01:51:51 am »
Good thing LLJK that was zeh best thing to do!

now this topic have been way too long about america without someone mention the other country in north america

Other?  There are more than 20 countries in North America.

Offline Kafein

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #117 on: September 08, 2011, 03:14:47 am »
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Btw, watch this, my first post was so awesome no one read it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-yldqNkGfo

Offline Ginosaji

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #118 on: September 08, 2011, 07:46:02 am »
Btw, watch this, my first post was so awesome no one read it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-yldqNkGfo

That's old, Kafein, sorry :p But xkcd made your last post awesome instead :)


@Tears: Please show me the clear law. Anwyl's link to the Geneva Conventions didn't include a definition of war, at least not in Protocol I, Article 2.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: LLJK bends the knee to Pecores
« Reply #119 on: September 08, 2011, 07:49:47 am »
@Tears: Please show me the clear law. Anwyl's link to the Geneva Conventions didn't include a definition of war, at least not in Protocol I, Article 2.

No. This conversation is now officially boring. Agree to disagree, or just think you are right and I am wrong. Other more entertaining threads are now afoot and I don't want to rehash another tiring topic that occures 3 times a year every year at every university, and every year in politics. I made my points, you made your points, anything further and we will be going in circles. At this point I think people are too combative and not listening well enough at this point. More importantly, I don't give a fuck anymore and all that argumentative energy I had earlier is gone, spent on other things.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.