cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Myltinous on September 06, 2011, 07:50:47 am
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Howdy ya'll! The time is nearing when a 1st gen noob retires to become a 2nd gen noob who can claim he's not. I am nearing that monumental stage :D. Going to be playing as a 1h shielder as my 2nd gen build with the following equipment:
Warhammer, Scale Armor, Rus Splinterd greaves, leather gloves, nord fighter helmet (or something of equivelent weight), Shield (Don't know what one I'm going to stick with yet)
My Build I'm going to be using is below:
lvl 30
HP 63
STR 18
AGI 18
skills to attributes 2
IF 5
PS 6
Shield 6
Athletics 6
WM 6
1h 155
Just wondering if this is a good build/equipment combo to go for. Feel free to throw out suggestions or make fun of me for being a newb :D
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try a 21/15 build. also try carrying 2 weapons and using a cut dmg weapon against anyone in light mail or leather armor, you'll kill'em faster than with a warhammer.
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try a 21/15 build. also try carrying 2 weapons and using a cut dmg weapon against anyone in light mail or leather armor, you'll kill'em faster than with a warhammer.
Carrying a second wep is indeed a good idea, I'd suggest an axe - they have high damage and will help against opposing shielders (turtles).
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Very solid build, can't go wrong there.
Then next gen try 21/15 and the gen after that 15/21 or something. Just try them all. After 11 gens i've found that i like 18/18 best.
6 Athletics is great and having 'only' 6 Power Strike is a good compromise.
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Very solid build, can't go wrong there.
Then next gen try 21/15 and the gen after that 15/21 or something. Just try them all. After 11 gens i've found that i like 18/18 best.
6 Athletics is great and having 'only' 6 Power Strike is a good compromise.
I'm with Phazey on this one. Especially if you're using short weapons like the warhammer and axe, 6 athletics is the way to go.
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That 18/18 is a great build, but don't carry 2 weapons, take a sword with high thrust-damage and you don't need a pierce or blunt sidearm for heavy armored opponents. Saves you a lot of money.
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I suggest to wear a cheap "one handed axe" (1k) to destroy shields of another one-handers. Fighting a long time with a shielder deserve a backstab for you.
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try a 21/15 build. also try carrying 2 weapons and using a cut dmg weapon against anyone in light mail or leather armor, you'll kill'em faster than with a warhammer.
I'm with Digglez. I would personally only take 5 shield skill and probably less athletics. Then you can use those excess skill points for throwing, IF, or riding(?) ;)
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@ OP
The build you've posted is the one I'm trying at the moment while instead of having more Weapon Master I'm going for more Powerstrike. The extra Athletics really does you alot of good, I mean. It's amazing, I found that with 5 Athletics that it was easier to get mobbed, with the added Athletics you get a chance to choose your battles and are capable of tossing your opponents off guard with your speed, try it out.
Attributes
Available points: 0
Strength 19
Agility 18
Weapon proficiency
Available points: 0
One Handed 132
Two Handed 1
Polearm 31
Archery 1
Crossbow 1
Throwing 1
Skills
Available points: 0
Iron Flesh 0
Power Strike 6
Shield 5
Athletics 6
Riding 0
Horse Archery 0
Power Draw 0
Power Throw 0
Weapon Master 4
(Example build is unfinished but I will be going to 21/18 because I am happy with the amount of Athletics I have.)
Ironflesh isn't too important as you will be using your shield for the most part and the Athletics will give you enough speed to compensate for the lack of Ironflesh. Also having medium/heavy armour will just about save you from most one shot kills even without the Ironflesh.
If you want alittle more independence and the ability to fight multiple enemies, I would suggest this build.
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18/18 is the most balanced build for shielder,6ps & warhammer will hit hard
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I think ironflesh is still very important. The weight of the shield makes it easier to get surrounded and subsequently take in a few hits. It will really help on those 2-3 v 1s.
I like the tank shielder build, but 21/15 is also nice.
I also DEFINITELY recommend acquiring multiple weapons. 1 slot weapons are there for a reason. Carry an axe for other shielders, or if you're using a 4 or less difficulty shield, get a sheathable pike like the awlpike or some kind of spear to help in 2v1s and stop cavalry. As support weapons they are usable with 1wpf.
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Not getting swayed off of the warhammer. Don't really see the point of an extra weapon, it would just cost me more and slow me down. Wouldn't it?
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21 / 15 @ lvl 30
7 IF
7 PS
5 Athl
5 WM
5 Shield
Got 66 body armor with an effective weight of around 16 (chest weight x 1 + gloves weight x 2)
Running feels fast enough.
I can take enormous damage and mostly survive rounds.
Now for dmg and warhammer:
Knockdown chance = raw dmg u ve dealt.
Means PS has a direct impact on your knockdown chance.
Consider this :-)
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After 11 generations of shielder builds I find that of all classes in crpg shielders got nerfed the hardest and not worth playing anymore cause any reasonably good 2hander in plate will have ya for breakfast.
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After 11 generations of shielder builds I find that of all classes in crpg shielders got nerfed the hardest and not worth playing anymore cause any reasonably good 2hander in plate will have ya for breakfast.
I have also played shielder since i started crpg and have this gen gone cav with a little bit of pole and shield, next gen i will be removing shield all together.
Its just not anywhere near as good as it used to be.
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hmmm kinda agree.
for an instance an top 2h player that topped scoreboard al day doesnt do nearly as good with 1h shield.
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2hand vs shielder in a duel 2hander wins most times.
2hand vs shielder on score board i tend to come higher. But thats with 7 PS x3 pick monster NOM NOM!
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Cant say you wont have fun as a 1 H... it is fun :-)
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That's funny people are saying that 1h shield got nerfed because I feel like 1h shield builds have never been better.
Maybe it's just my playstyle, but I've always enjoyed GREAT SUCCESS when I roll shielder for a gen.
To those saying 2h beats 1h/shield in duels, what advantage does the 2h have that gives them the edge? I recognize the advantage of simple 2h vs 1h given the ability of the 2her to outrange and weapon stun, but the 1h shielder has so many more 'free blocks' against the 2h player. Assuming positioning and other skills are equal with the two that should give the 1h shielder a distinct early advantage in the fight until the shield is broken... and let's be honest that will rarely happen in a duel unless the 2h has a shield breaker or is quite the excellent manual blocker.
Yes the 2h will have reach and should get the first hit in, but unless the 1h is slacking on positioning he shouldn't get abused by that much during the rest of the fight. I always prioritize 2handers before 1h/shields in battle because they tend to be much easier kills.
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Thinking about a 21-18 build but worried that the less WM means that I won't do as good, expesially since i usually play servers with around 80-90ping at least
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Thinking about a 21-18 build but worried that the less WM means that I won't do as good, expesially since i usually play servers with around 80-90ping at least
21 - 15 is fine.
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I think 2h can beat shielders in a duel some times, but good thing its not a dueling game!
As shield I have helped the team (and multiplier) SO much more than a 2h or pole user. I can block 3 guys at once, distract half the team in a remote part of the map, push though an enemy formation, be part of a shield wall at a choke point (or be a 1 man shield wall sometimes!)
In this way, I think it is more powerful than 2h.
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Thinking about a 21-18 build but worried that the less WM means that I won't do as good, expesially since i usually play servers with around 80-90ping at least
WPF has barely any effect on your speed and even less so if you use a fast weapon. As long as you have enough to overcome your weight penalty and still have around 100 WPF, you're fine.
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I think 2h can beat shielders in a duel some times, but good thing its not a dueling game!
As shield I have helped the team (and multiplier) SO much more than a 2h or pole user. I can block 3 guys at once, distract half the team in a remote part of the map, push though an enemy formation, be part of a shield wall at a choke point (or be a 1 man shield wall sometimes!)
In this way, I think it is more powerful than 2h.
The char im playing now is a 2h and I don't like it that much because for one i don't have the time to grind and perfect manual blocking and for two I feel that as a 1h sheilder i can play the more in your face aggressive style that i like. It looks quite pathetic when i try to use that style as a 2hander :(. Is 5 athletics going to be enough though, I've been told that it usually isn't enough.
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I personally had great fun with a 24/12 build, but that was last summer...
It was great fun but your shield is quite vulnerable.
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I always prioritize 2handers before 1h/shields in battle because they tend to be much easier kills.
I think you have a lot of dissapointments ahead when you will get more experienced. I did shielding in cRPG for 1.5 years, got quite legendary with it on EU servers, and believe me when I say that shields got nerfed really REALLY hard, I know what I am talking about.
Just one example:
In the very early crpg I could outrun with my huscarl most 2 handers...Now it is only a dream for shielder. The shielders have been turned into turtles for real.
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I think you have a lot of dissapointments ahead when you will get more experienced. I did shielding in cRPG for 1.5 years, got quite legendary with it on EU servers, and believe me when I say that shields got nerfed really REALLY hard, I know what I am talking about.
Just one example:
In the very early crpg I could outrun with my huscarl most 2 handers...Now it is only a dream for shielder. The shielders have been turned into turtles for real.
Yeah... we're just going to have to agree to disagree there, because I've been shielder quite a few gens and haven't had any problems being aggressive. Sure against top players it is more of a drawn out battle, but as long as you don't overpursue when they try to backpeddle you and watch for the castor swings I haven't had too many problems.
What great disadvantage do you think shielders have against 2handers exactly? A good shielder vs a good 2h and I think the shielder has the edge.
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I think you are from the NA right? So you are not really familiar with Atze and Phyrex? Try duelling them for once, you will quickly learn why shields are quite useless nowadays.
Well, I agree on one thing: shielder is the best choice for noobs to kill other noobs. As for the experienced players, forget about shield. Its just not worth anymore.
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Playing 21/15 with Elite Spamitar. It's really fun and I usually am atleast top5 on scoreboards. You hit hard while being pretty fast. However if you're not lvl 30 yet I suggest you go for the athletics first because imo, the points in athletics are really important.
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I think you are from the NA right? So you are not really familiar with Atze and Phyrex? Try duelling them for once, you will quickly learn why shields are quite useless nowadays.
Well, I agree on one thing: shielder is the best choice for noobs to kill other noobs.
I cannot agree with this. When I go 1h shield I don't expect to be good in dueling against some of the best EU 2-handers with their lightsabers. Going Rambo and looking for duels on the battlefield is something for 2h, as shielder you should stay with your teammates and fight in formation. Besides that you can still do good in 1 vs 2, 1 vs 3.
As for the experienced players, forget about shield. Its just not worth anymore.
Don't say that, or do you want even more 2h on the battlefield? :rolleyes:
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Don't say that, or do you want even more 2h on the battlefield?
Lol I don't mind, I am arbalester. 2handers r easy prey for me
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Lol I don't mind, I am arbalester. 2handers r easy prey for me
Ah, you're arbalester, now I understand... :twisted:
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Well I'm going to give the sheilder a try, if i dont like it then there's always next gen. Maybe go for a thrower, that's the way i started c-rpg so might give it another try. Been changed alot since then though
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Duelist? 18-18
Battle? 21-15, 30-9
Currently I am running a 30-9 and let me tell you, its a big FU to all those 2h and polearm jacks in fully heirloomed armor.
lvl 30
30-9
4if
10ps
3shield
3athl
3wm
126 1h
25 pole
There are lots of tier 3 shields that are very effective, however keep in mind the two most important features to look at are shield speed and shield width. Your best weapon options are blunt or fast 1h, unless your good at timing......which you will need to learn quickly.
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Its just not anywhere near as good as it used to be.
It used to be stupidly overpowered, now shields are ok methinks.
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It used to be stupidly overpowered, now shields are ok methinks.
Off topic a little but one handed could do with a boost some how, shield with one hand is meh.
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Off topic a little but one handed could do with a boost some how, shield with one hand is meh.
Well duh... you put a sword in the other hand dummy :P
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.I did shielding in cRPG for 1.5 years, got quite legendary with it on EU servers,
..No varyag, you were never "legendary".. never even heard anyone say you were/are a good shielder.
I think you are from the NA right? So you are not really familiar with Atze and Phyrex? Try duelling them for once, you will quickly learn why shields are quite useless nowadays.
Fucking crappy argument. Average shielders can't kill some of the best 2H players? Oh boy, surely this proves your point. You're even less likely to kill Atze or Phyrex without a shield than you are with one. And pretty much everyone who knows how shielding works has a better chance to kill them with 1h+shield than with 2h/polearms.
As for the experienced players, forget about shield. Its just not worth anymore.
False.
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I lol'd. Dueling with Phyrex renders every class or build useless. However, ganking and backstabbing works with him quite well in battle.
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Howdy ya'll! The time is nearing when a 1st gen noob retires to become a 2nd gen noob who can claim he's not. I am nearing that monumental stage :D. Going to be playing as a 1h shielder as my 2nd gen build with the following equipment:
Warhammer, Scale Armor, Rus Splinterd greaves, leather gloves, nord fighter helmet (or something of equivelent weight), Shield (Don't know what one I'm going to stick with yet)
My Build I'm going to be using is below:
lvl 30
HP 63
STR 18
AGI 18
skills to attributes 2
IF 5
PS 6
Shield 6
Athletics 6
WM 6
1h 155
Just wondering if this is a good build/equipment combo to go for. Feel free to throw out suggestions or make fun of me for being a newb :D
18/18 is a pretty solid build to start knowing how 1h shield works. i'd go for it.
about equip, my suggestion is to use better gloves and a lighter armor. you will have a slighty worse upkeep but a much better armor/weight ratio
example:
Scale Armor
weight: 11
body armor: 38
leg armor: 9
difficulty: 10
+
Leather Gloves
weight: 0
body armor: 2
= 40 body and 9 legs total
= 11 weight total
= 4.816 gold total
= 385,28 upkeep total
--------------------------------------
Studded Leather Coat
weight: 5
body armor: 30
leg armor: 10
difficulty: 8
+
Scale Gauntlets
weight: 1
body armor: 8
difficulty: 12
= 38 body and 10 legs
= 5+(1x2 as hand armor)= 7 weight total
= 9.926 gold total
= 794.08 upkeep total
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so 4 kgs less for near the same armor amount (-2 body +1 legs) is really a better ratio. i notice a lot +/- 4 weight with even 6 athletics.
the upkeep is 400 golds higher... if you can deal with it, it's a better choice.
JUST don't heirloom the studded leather coat because is not worth it. the scale gauntlets instead are a good heirloom investment.
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As a rather experienced shielder I'd suggest to test 21/15 build first, believe me that you'll feel the difference between 6 and 7 PS, especially when you're using weapons with cut damage, but with warhammer/steel pick you'll definatly need more agi, so 18/18 sounds fine if you're somehow experienced in playing as a shielder, if not you benefit more from extra damage since you'll won't have as much occasions to hit your opponent as a decent shielder.
About the EQ, you'll definatly need fast shield with shitloads of hit points, something like kite/heavy kite, heavy norman shiled. Others like kinghtly heater/kite shield wich are damn fast won't protect you good enough from ranged. Huscarl's round shiled is a bit too slow/heavy for playing with anything less then 21 agi (7 shiled skill). Elite cavalry and heavy round shield are also not bad choice.
Also remember that against good 2h player or in 1 vs 2 pole you'll loose in 90% of cases. Despite from what others are saying it's fun to play as shielder, well you don't have as much oportunites as 2h/pole but still you can try to outrange/spam and dueling with 1h without shield is much more funnier and harder then abusing 2h lolswords animations (no hard feelings guys, just sayin').
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Also remember that against good 2h player or in 1 vs 2 pole you'll loose in 90% of cases.
Dalhi, don't lie to them! :o
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I think you are from the NA right? So you are not really familiar with Atze and Phyrex? Try duelling them for once, you will quickly learn why shields are quite useless nowadays.
Well, I agree on one thing: shielder is the best choice for noobs to kill other noobs. As for the experienced players, forget about shield. Its just not worth anymore.
Is this why Xant and Siiem went 1h+shield?
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Dalhi is a case that proves the rule :D
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Xant you noob.
I can confirm that Varyag WAS legendary. Back in the day there were only 2 heroes, Oberyn and Varyag. Both of them aboozed OP weapons to the max xD and had much higher levels and more money than the rest of us.
Varyag with his huscarl and 103(?) speed elite scimi with ghost range was impossible to block.. (for me) He and Oberyn just dominated the servers for weeks on end.
Of course most people could not block properly back then, feints was the most advanced dueling trick, you could use a great axe in 1h mode from a horse, archers could become ridiculously deadly etc.. Was good times.
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Xant you noob.
I can confirm that Varyag WAS legendary. Back in the day there were only 2 heroes, Oberyn and Varyag. Both of them aboozed OP weapons to the max xD and had much higher levels and more money than the rest of us.
Varyag with his huscarl and 103(?) speed elite scimi with ghost range was impossible to block.. (for me) He and Oberyn just dominated the servers for weeks on end.
Of course most people could not block properly back then, feints was the most advanced dueling trick, you could use a great axe in 1h mode from a horse, archers could become ridiculously deadly etc.. Was good times.
Yeah, Oberyn was quite an overlord. When he was on the server I was like "OMG, Oberyn is here :shock:", imagine it with a girlie voice. :D He's also one of the few guys I can remember from my first playing sessions about a year ago.
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If you want be the best, get many kills then 1h shield is not easy because the shield doesnt really protect you more it slow you down, you need too many hits (if you not exploit steel pick build) so enemy even if he sucks will often run away before you can kill him or a team mate kill him before you, Im speaking about strategus. Ofc. you can be level 30-33 and slash players under level 30 on siege server and be there the best... About duel server its not easy to say because of all the camels, cybers... auto blockers, they are banned now but you can never know is the guy really blocking good like a machine or does he use a machine.
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Xant you noob.
I can confirm that Varyag WAS legendary. Back in the day there were only 2 heroes, Oberyn and Varyag. Both of them aboozed OP weapons to the max xD and had much higher levels and more money than the rest of us.
Varyag with his huscarl and 103(?) speed elite scimi with ghost range was impossible to block.. (for me) He and Oberyn just dominated the servers for weeks on end.
Of course most people could not block properly back then, feints was the most advanced dueling trick, you could use a great axe in 1h mode from a horse, archers could become ridiculously deadly etc.. Was good times.
And weight didnt affect your wpf, good times indeed, I wonder how my current build would have faired...
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Xant you noob.
I can confirm that Varyag WAS legendary. Back in the day there were only 2 heroes, Oberyn and Varyag. Both of them aboozed OP weapons to the max xD and had much higher levels and more money than the rest of us.
Varyag with his huscarl and 103(?) speed elite scimi with ghost range was impossible to block.. (for me) He and Oberyn just dominated the servers for weeks on end.
Of course most people could not block properly back then, feints was the most advanced dueling trick, you could use a great axe in 1h mode from a horse, archers could become ridiculously deadly etc.. Was good times.
I was talking post-big patch, of course. Before that shit was crazy, dawg.
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And weight didnt affect your wpf, good times indeed, I wonder how my current build would have faired...
well you should take in account that AGI was a lot more useful (for swing speed bonus)and weapon master 8 meant 190-200 wpf.
good times... now is STR build galore.
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I was doing relatively well with a 24/12 shielder build back then :|
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I was doing relatively well with a 24/12 shielder build back then :|
well me too with a 33/15 :?
phazh was lighting fast.. pompom was even faster. you could barely see the scimitar animation.
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Also remember that against good 2h player or in 1 vs 2 pole you'll loose in 90% of cases.
I can see the 1 v 2 argument against competent players (really against equally skilled players you should rarely be able to pull out 2v1s anyways) but I still don't get the "you'll lose against good 2 handers all the time" argument. Why? How? What exactly do these good 2 handers have over a good shielder?
Again range I get: 2 hand will get the first hit (which should be blocked). If the 2-hander can effectively use the range advantage shielder will lose, but as a shielder pressuring the 2-hander by getting close and using good footwork you will get a whole lot of "free blocks" while the 2 hander will have to manual block all of those that you get for "free". If the shield breaks then the 2-hander will have the ability to weapon stun and all that, but unless it's a shield breaking weapon that probably won't happy in a single duel.
I don't think it's an issue of me not playing against "good 2-handers" that brings me to this conclusion because I've played against lots of different players in battle. I also play a heavier strength shield build with 24/12 or 21/15, so maybe that helps curb the damage difference between me and the 2 hander.
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Its because either the good 2 hander will be able to block your hits, until he breaks your shield or he simply needs less hits to kill you, (obviously depends on gear and build)
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Its because either the good 2 hander will be able to block your hits, until he breaks your shield or he simply needs less hits to kill you, (obviously depends on gear and build)
Perhaps, but I have 2 counter arguments to this:
1) I use a knightly heater shield, and even with 4 shield skill during my shield usually lasts for a solid fight or two. Most shielders have 5 or 6 shield skill so theirs should last even longer
2) If the shield does break I probably have gotten a few hits in against the 2-hander, which should help with the disadvantage I have against the longer reach of the 2-hander.
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Maybe I a bit overstated the percentages, but from my own experience against really good 2 handers it ain't that simple, since most of the 2 handers has agi based builds so they can simply outrun/outrange you, as you now shielder has rather heavy eq what makes him vulnerable to whose kind of oponenet movements. So it's not about breaking your shield. Avarage player with greatsword/longsword in duel can hitslash you even if you hold your shield, this is happening to me very often. What is more I'seen a lot of this kind of fights, and in most of them 2 handers won... unless they can't block properly. There is one more "dirty trick" that gives a huge advantage against shielders, kick slashing... but to be honest only a few players in EU keeps using it. With shield this technique is way more harder, if you'll miss be sure that you get hitted.
Of course if you're a decent shielder it won't be that easy to kill you, but it seems that Myltinous, to whom I was talking to, isn't any experienced in fighting with shield.
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There is one more "dirty trick" that gives a huge advantage against shielders, kick slashing... but to be honest only a few players in EU keeps using it. With shield this technique is way more harder, if you'll miss be sure that you get hitted.
kickslash technique is not easy as a 2hander neither as a shielder. but there is a simple counter to that. if the shielder knows that his opponent is a good kickslasher, he should never attack him straight. should step forward to hit, advancing either on left or right (right is better because of the 1h "headslash" left attack.)
if you meet a kickslasher like wayne, phyrex, bjord, well will be hard anyway.. kicks or not.
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kickslash technique is not easy as a 2hander neither as a shielder.
You can't block while kicking as a shielder, but you can manually block with a weapon while kicking. I often use kick slashing, so that's one of the things I don't like about being a shielder.
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You can't block while kicking as a shielder, but you can manually block with a weapon while kicking. I often use kick slashing, so that's one of the things I don't like about being a shielder.
not totally true. you can manual block and press the kick, but when the animation kick starts, you don't block anymore.
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Up, left and right blocks all the way through the kick animation. Down block has a window where it doesn't block.
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Up, left and right blocks all the way through the kick animation. Down block has a window where it doesn't block.
then you'll not slash after a kick... so blocking while kicking = useless? oh wait eh.. i'm noob at kickslashing.. consider it.
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Even if you block while kicking, you'll still be fast enough to get a hit in
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Of course if you're a decent shielder it won't be that easy to kill you, but it seems that Myltinous, to whom I was talking to, isn't any experienced in fighting with shield.
True, but you have to start somewhere.
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Xant you noob.
I can confirm that Varyag WAS legendary. Back in the day there were only 2 heroes, Oberyn and Varyag. Both of them aboozed OP weapons to the max xD and had much higher levels and more money than the rest of us.
Varyag with his huscarl and 103(?) speed elite scimi with ghost range was impossible to block.. (for me) He and Oberyn just dominated the servers for weeks on end.
Of course most people could not block properly back then, feints was the most advanced dueling trick, you could use a great axe in 1h mode from a horse, archers could become ridiculously deadly etc.. Was good times.
I wish there was more speed to 1h weapon and shield like in the old days. (if it is what the people here saying)
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I wish there was more speed to 1h weapon and shield like in the old days. (if it is what the people here saying)
Just play against the archers we had back then too and you'll reconsider. Your 103 speed spammitar won't help much against a plated archer, using a warbow with bodkins, firing lightning fast homing missiles. If you come close to the guy, he pulls out a greatsword and kills you anyway.
Loads of fun XD