cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Spawny on August 23, 2011, 05:03:15 pm

Title: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Spawny on August 23, 2011, 05:03:15 pm
Allright, there are 2 contenders for being the best 1h infantry build. I've played them both, loved em both, but I can't decide which I'll take for my final gen.

So, either 18/18 or 21/15.

Gear:
Knightly heater
Langes messer/steel pick/anything short that hurts badly
Heraldic mail with tabard
Mail gauntlets
Kettle helmet
Mail chausses
long dagger for style points

WHICH SHOULD I TAKE!!??
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Torp on August 23, 2011, 05:36:42 pm
i'd go with the 18/18 since i think athletics is very important as a shielder... especially with a short weapon, if you had a long weap, you could go for the 21/15, but to avoid getting outspammed or backpedal'd i'd take the 18/18

I would go with this build:

(click to show/hide)

Ofc you can put the riding in IF instead for a pure inf shielder, but i would definitely put the spare points in riding since i love cav and it gives you more opportunities of new playstyles, which i think is more important than slightly more hp.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Dezilagel on August 23, 2011, 05:45:57 pm
I'd go with the best of 2 worlds, 21-18.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Gurnisson on August 23, 2011, 05:46:06 pm
18/18
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Phazey on August 23, 2011, 05:53:27 pm
Hard choice. Small difference in the builds, though. Depends on play style and preference.

Do you like being able to chase archers, flank and fight against multiple opponents? 18 / 18.

Do you stick with your teammates a lot and play as a supporting shielder, pushing forward in the front line? Then you might like the extra hitpoints and perhaps the extra bit of powerstrike and go 21/15.

Personally, i also prefer the 18 / 18 builds because i feel that athletics gives you the most options, thus giving more 'fun' gameplay. I also tend to roam a lot, trying to flank and i often end up facing multiple opponents. In that case, the extra athletics trumps the extra hitpoints and powerstrike.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: VVarlord on August 23, 2011, 06:05:42 pm
21 / 15

IF 7
PS 7
SHD 5
ATH 5
WPM 5

Its the perfect build for battle. If you want a dueling build with a shield you need much more wpf, if you want a build for battle then this is it.

I dont think im a good player but i think my build and the gear i use is the best for making my scores on battle much high than any shielder and mostly higher than alot of other classes.

Steel pick and huscarls is perfect if your not wanting looks and if you're worried about the range you dont need to chase them if they are running like a girl let them.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Spawny on August 23, 2011, 06:14:41 pm
Thanks for the replies so far.

I forgot to mention I'm the clans siege specialist. Last gen I got to level 31 with a whopping 3 kills and 6 deaths on my cRPG page.

I'm very much offensive minded, resulting in a lot of X vs me fights. I tend to push a bit too far into the enemy lines and combined with respawning defenders I get outnumbered a lot.

When playing defensive, I tend to defend a choke point until the end and I only run when the odds are 5+ vs me alone.

I've got lordly armour and reinforced gloves, leaving me with 59 body armour. So 6 or 7 IF can make a huge difference, but the 21/18 build without IF looks sexy.

Any additions with the new information?
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: VVarlord on August 23, 2011, 06:31:29 pm
Dont make the mistake of dropping IF especially when going 21 STR.

Getting hit by an arrow with 59 armour and 7 IF means you laugh it off and just going on steam rolling.

I play seige exactly the same way as you, front man and press hope for help and if none comes just keep going till you die.

Kills dont count but killing and delaying as many as you can means less to get to the flag :P
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Xscizorx on August 23, 2011, 06:38:06 pm
If you like to take some hits (which you can with your armor), I'd go for the 21-15 build. It's personally my favorite, and it favors the more offensive play style. If you want be dueling/effective in 1v1; go for the 21-18 build or the 24-15 build. Both have no or low IF and favor turtle like play styles because they have no IF. If you choose a build with no IF, use a big shield and a short weapon, and play carefully. However, seeing as you like to be aggressive, I would go with the 21-15 build. It's fun on siege as well as effective in battle as a support/distraction role.


The Broad one handed axe is great, as well as the steel pick. However, my favorite 1h with the more strength heavy role is the regular espada eslavona thing. It's short, fast, and is better when use aggresively.
Whatever you choose, have fun with it.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Phazey on August 23, 2011, 06:54:27 pm
I'm the clans siege specialist.

Any additions with the new information?

21/15. Hitpoints ftw, screw althethics. About 21/18, a point of extra power strike is nice, but i'm guessing the extra hp (70 vs 56) trumps the extra killing power.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Laufknoten on August 23, 2011, 06:55:31 pm
18/18 if you use pierce/blunt weapons or swords with high thrust and 21/15 or anything with 7+ PS if you use axes or swords without thrust. I prefer the 18/18 build more, because of the 6 ath and 6 shield you get. It's a good build IMO and you can choose between more protection (IF) or some mounted action.

I use it this way atm, I've put some wpf in poles cause 150 wpf is enough for 1h and I already have a fast sword.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Kafein on August 23, 2011, 06:58:08 pm
I'd say 18/21 for a pure foot shielder.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    * Strength: 18
    * Agility: 21
    * Hit points: 53

    * Skills to attributes: 8

    * Ironflesh: 0
    * Power Strike: 6
    * Shield: 6
    * Athletics: 7
    * Riding: 0
    * Horse Archery: 0
    * Power Draw: 0
    * Power Throw: 0
    * Weapon Master: 4

    * One Handed: 139
    * Two Handed: 1
    * Polearm: 1
    * Archery: 1
    * Crossbow: 1
    * Throwing: 1

I favor agility over strength for various reasons. But it mainly comes down to what type of player you are. If you can fend for yourself, like being everywhere at the same time, don't like running archers, like fighting multiple opponents alone, are too slow or "footworked" out too much, like the game when it's intense and requires to concentrate, then agi is for you.

This build can also be played as a support, using his shield defensively most of the time. But it will only shine in aggressive, small and swift action.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: VVarlord on August 23, 2011, 07:08:47 pm
Why have 21 agil and not full ammount of wpf...

That is the worst thing iv seen recommended.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Dezilagel on August 23, 2011, 07:09:19 pm
21/15. Hitpoints ftw, screw althethics. About 21/18, a point of extra power strike is nice, but i'm guessing the extra hp (70 vs 56) trumps the extra killing power.

Yes, but look at his first post:

but I can't decide which I'll take for my final gen.

At Lv 31/32, he'll have points to put into IF. If you use less points for attiblutes, the build won't last for a high-lv char.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: rustyspoon on August 23, 2011, 07:20:50 pm
Why have 21 agil and not full ammount of wpf...

That is the worst thing iv seen recommended.

Because unless you are wearing heavy armor or are a hybrid, you don't need more than 3 WM. Anything more than that is a waste. WM is the worst scaling skill in the game.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Spawny on August 23, 2011, 07:50:38 pm
I'd say 18/21 for a pure foot shielder.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    * Strength: 18
    * Agility: 21
    * Hit points: 53

    * Skills to attributes: 8
 
    * Ironflesh: 0
    * Power Strike: 6
     * Shield: 6
    * Athletics: 7
    * Riding: 0
    * Horse Archery: 0
    * Power Draw: 0
    * Power Throw: 0
    * Weapon Master: 4

    * One Handed: 139
    * Two Handed: 1
    * Polearm: 1
    * Archery: 1
    * Crossbow: 1
    * Throwing: 1

 I favor agility over strength for various reasons. But it mainly comes down to what type of player you are. If you can fend for yourself, like being everywhere at the same time, don't like running archers, like fighting multiple opponents alone, are too slow or "footworked" out too much, like the game when it's intense and requires to concentrate, then agi is for you.

This build can also be played as a support, using his shield defensively most of the time. But it will only shine in aggressive, small and swift action.

Allthough the build looks good, I doubt it's effectiveness in sieges. Mainly because you will get hit and with so few HP the first or second hit will kill you.

Yes, but look at his first post:

At Lv 31/32, he'll have points to put into IF. If you use less points for attiblutes, the build won't last for a high-lv char.

You are right, but since it takes me about 3 months to get to 31, I doubt I will ever get to 32. Even if I do, I can pick up riding as a filler.

21/15. Hitpoints ftw, screw althethics. About 21/18, a point of extra power strike is nice, but i'm guessing the extra hp (70 vs 56) trumps the extra killing power.

The 21/18 build looks more like a dueling build. I guess having 7 ps and 70 HP will do the trick.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Kherr on August 23, 2011, 08:10:24 pm
I would go 21/15 and - of course - full IF. Especially if you prefer siege. You don't need a lot of athletics in such a narrow environment. The short weapons are also not a big problem there.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Spawny on August 23, 2011, 08:37:37 pm
I would go 21/15 and - of course - full IF. Especially if you prefer siege. You don't need a lot of athletics in such a narrow environment. The short weapons are also not a big problem there.

I know. Took your pick to my face twice yesterday XD
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Kafein on August 23, 2011, 09:32:29 pm
Ah, well the 18/21 build isn't designed for siege at all. I nearly don't play siege.

140 is enough wpf for any melee weapon. Skill points above that are better being placed in athletics.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Spawny on August 23, 2011, 10:31:37 pm
Ah, well the 18/21 build isn't designed for siege at all. I nearly don't play siege.

140 is enough wpf for any melee weapon. Skill points above that are better being placed in athletics.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: MrShine on August 24, 2011, 02:59:57 pm
(click to show/hide)

I've found that if you don't over-pursue this works quite well.   I threw some wpf into throwing and the 1 power throw because I had an extra point to throw in somewhere, but I still get the message that I don't have enough wpf for my difficulty 1 darts :( stupid hidden equations!

Oh, and your shield will break against a large group or axes.  Hope you know how to manual block!
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Vibe on August 24, 2011, 03:03:38 pm
21/15 with 7PS and 7IF. You'll have so much hp you won't even have to raise shield vs archers anymore.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Mala on August 24, 2011, 03:55:24 pm
Go for 21/15, then i am a bit more faster than you and can hit you better in the back.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Laufknoten on August 24, 2011, 06:08:46 pm
Please show some class and use a real sword, not ugly crap like scimitar or arabian cav sword. :D The Italian sword and the eslavonas are underused, use them and show that you have style.  :wink:
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: karasu on August 24, 2011, 06:24:00 pm
18/18 for sure.

The difference from 5 shield to 6 shield is quite noticeable.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: VVarlord on August 24, 2011, 06:40:18 pm
18/18 for sure.

The difference from 5 shield to 6 shield is quite noticeable.

Cheers

Not it really isnt. I have 5 and unless i fight a axe user it doesnt break, even then i usually kill the axer before it breaks.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Spawny on August 25, 2011, 10:32:44 am
Go for 21/15, then i am a bit more faster than you and can hit you better in the back.

I'll bring an axe for that buckler of yours :P

Please show some class and use a real sword, not ugly crap like scimitar or arabian cav sword. :D The Italian sword and the eslavonas are underused, use them and show that you have style.  :wink:

Using a Langes Messer atm. I'm a templar, so I don't use eastern style equipment. I only use the eslavonas without a shield. They look silly with a shield.

18/18 for sure.

The difference from 5 shield to 6 shield is quite noticeable.

Cheers

If I would go for 18/18, it would be because of the 6 athletics, as I find the difference between 5 and 6 shield skill negligible. If my shield breaks with 5 shield skill (using knightly heater shield), it's either enemy #3 or more or I'm doing something wrong.

Keep the tips comming. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Polobow on August 25, 2011, 01:39:56 pm
Dont make the mistake of dropping IF especially when going 21 STR.

Getting hit by an arrow with 59 armour and 7 IF means you laugh it off and just going on steam rolling.

I play seige exactly the same way as you, front man and press hope for help and if none comes just keep going till you die.

Kills dont count but killing and delaying as many as you can means less to get to the flag :P

Oh man, that's so fun! Getting hit by an arrow, just shrugging it off, ignoring it completely  :D. Most of the time the archer just shoots someone else.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Mtemtko on August 25, 2011, 02:31:09 pm
24/15, 7ps to 8ps is an insane difference, combine that with low/med armor and a bitchy weapon like pick or italian sword and you'll be bi-winning..
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Laufknoten on August 25, 2011, 02:50:40 pm
Using a Langes Messer atm. I'm a templar, so I don't use eastern style equipment. I only use the eslavonas without a shield. They look silly with a shield.
It depends on the shield you want to use, they look good with the smaller cav shields imo. they never look silly  :mad:
What about the MW long/knightly arming sword then? I think they're the "knightliest" swords you can get and loomed they're really good.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Renegat on August 25, 2011, 03:41:57 pm
Hello, i advice you to try 21/18 built (lvl 31)
6 wm, 6 ath, 7 ps, 5 shield and 2 if or 2 riding if you want to go lvl 32 and put 3 more riding (if it's your final built).
You can also do 18/18, which is a very good built for 1h cav (i had this one before).

As far as weapons are concerned, i would advice you to take nordic champion or knightly arming sword. Of course, you can take weapons for begginers or non skilled players like steel pick or spamitar, but you won't "learn" and improve your skills with such weapons.

EDIT: There is also the iberian mace which look pretty efficient if you like blunt damages and know down, but i ve never tried it so i can't say if it's a realy good weapon ^^ (but it looks nice :p)
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Kherr on August 25, 2011, 03:56:21 pm
@Renegat
1. What do you think makes a weapon to a "beginner" or "non skilled" weapon? Overpowerment? If a weapon is overpowered a lot of people uses it. Then it will be nerferd. Happened e.g. with the german great sword or even a complete class like throwing or archery.

2. Imho you have to find a balance between your athletics, the prefered environment (narrow siege or open terrain) and the length of the weapon. 15 agility, short pick and open terrain will not work.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Spawny on August 25, 2011, 04:17:48 pm
What about the MW long/knightly arming sword then? I think they're the "knightliest" swords you can get and loomed they're really good.

True, but the langes messer sports 36 cut damage on the swing and has just 1 damage less on the thrust. Combine that with being 1 point faster and it's 1400 gold cheaper too. The 10 reach it has less doesn't really matter that much during siege games.

Imo, more bang for my buck when using the langes messer. It's a western style weapon, only downside is that it doesn't fit the time period.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Renegat on August 25, 2011, 04:35:29 pm
Kherr:
I meant that taking those weapon is a "facilities mean" (don't know if i'm clear :s). I saw that most of those who use steel pick and spamitar don't feint, don't hold attack don't ... try anything. Just wait for the ennemie's attack and reply, wait, reply, wait, reply, ... OR they spam. Is that a skill? I don't think so. That's why i don't recommand poeple to take op weapon like steel pick and spamitar.
Plus, spamitar and steel pick are op for a long time, so i don't think they will be ever nerfed.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: Beer on August 25, 2011, 08:22:07 pm
I would hardly call either of those weapons OP. Steel picks do pierce damage, which merely makes them more effective against tincans. Whether or not a player feints/holds/block/whatever has nothing to do with the weapon a player picks, it has everything to do with the player himself. Just because somebody takes a Spamatar or a pick, it doesn't automatically make them a "no skill player". And there is nothing wrong with spamming if the enemy will not block. It doesn't make a player bad just because he takes advantage of his enemies weakness. I would argue that knowing the right time to spam could indeed be considered a skill.

Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: MrShine on August 25, 2011, 09:25:16 pm
I would hardly call either of those weapons OP. Steel picks do pierce damage, which merely makes them more effective against tincans. Whether or not a player feints/holds/block/whatever has nothing to do with the weapon a player picks, it has everything to do with the player himself. Just because somebody takes a Spamatar or a pick, it doesn't automatically make them a "no skill player". And there is nothing wrong with spamming if the enemy will not block. It doesn't make a player bad just because he takes advantage of his enemies weakness. I would argue that knowing the right time to spam could indeed be considered a skill.

What he said.  Honestly pick whatever weapon you want to.  I don't use scimi because it doesn't fit our clan theme and I rarely use the pick b/c it's ugly as sin, but they are both very strong weapons and I don't think there's anything wrong using them as long as you understand the strengths/weaknesses.
Title: Re: 1h/Shielder build. Can't decide! OH NOES!
Post by: The_Angle on August 28, 2011, 04:31:38 am
Due to having fought most of my battles in open fields I always find that my shielder is raring for more agility just for survival. From experience the Strength builds for Shielders are really great in siege, immense even but they just don't cut it in open field battles, too slow to pull out from failed engagements etc. Of course this maybe about my skill, but the only possiblity of escaping a failed engagement is if I could cut the hunting enemy down, while being mobbed you are almost forced into being defensive.

So I've been rolling an agility build.