cRPG

cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: Kong Ming on January 04, 2011, 02:57:41 am

Title: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 04, 2011, 02:57:41 am
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen!

This will henceforth be the discussion thread for independent maps that are being developed specifically for the cRPG servers.  It is intended to be a place where sceners can post info about the maps they are working on, and get feedback from the cRPG community.  Any online FPS-style game is only as good as the maps you play on.  Let's work as a community to make cRPG's the best around!

A few etiquette rules to help keep things managable:

1.  Sceners, please post screenshots inside spoilers to keep this thread streamlined.  Also, provide a specific name for your map so we can refer to it quickly and easily in discussion.

2.  Commentators, please keep the discussion about the maps that are specifically being posted here and how to improve or build upon them.  If you have ideas for new maps, there is a thread specifically for this topic here.  (Yes, I apparently like the word "specific")

Submit New Map Ideas Here. (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,133.0.html)


I am also going to post this link which is Airith's very helpful post about guidelines for maps that are submitted to the NA servers as well as a map list for both the NA1 and NA2 servers.

Map Submission Guidelines (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,94.0.html)


Thanks for helping us get the conversation about map development and improvement up and running!

  -Barely Legal


NOTE:  This discussion is being transfered from the TaleWorlds forums (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,151619.0.html).  Sceners please repost your maps from that board if you wish to continue discussing them here.  Thanks for your patience!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Warcat on January 04, 2011, 07:50:10 am
Here's a map I'm working on, should be done soon. It's called Gatehouse Line
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://img375.imageshack.us/i/mb117.jpg/)
(click to show/hide)

It's fairly symmetrical and should provide decent xp. Inside the gatehouses is a series of rooms that go all the way across the middle of the map so that you can see from one end to the other.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 04, 2011, 06:47:28 pm
Here's a map I'm working on, should be done soon. It's called Gatehouse Line
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://img375.imageshack.us/i/mb117.jpg/)
(click to show/hide)

It's fairly symmetrical and should provide decent xp. Inside the gatehouses is a series of rooms that go all the way across the middle of the map so that you can see from one end to the other.

Nice, we need more indoors maps, Is that the winery_interior prop blown up you used for the room? This map (unlike my jumbled prop-heavy messes) has a simple objective with clear symetrical lines, unlike many user-made maps for other fps style games C-rpg does not have many (if any!) maps like this. You might want to hang a few lights here and there, unless the darkness in what you are going for. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 04, 2011, 07:08:21 pm
Here's a map I'm working on, should be done soon. It's called Gatehouse Line
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://img375.imageshack.us/i/mb117.jpg/)
(click to show/hide)

It's fairly symmetrical and should provide decent xp. Inside the gatehouses is a series of rooms that go all the way across the middle of the map so that you can see from one end to the other.

Very interesting.  I had something similar up on the servers a while back that was generally well received.  Mine just needs resizing since it's too large and was dropping fps like flies.  :o  Yours should do well I believe.....oh wait....hold the phones.....THAT is at least 5 times bigger than mine was!!!!! 

Okay, MAYBE it's size won't kill some people, but remember, most players don't have very good gaming computers, so keep that in mind.  It looks cool, but if that's your horse I see there, (and I do believe it is), you sir have created quite the large place.

This one is mine:
(click to show/hide)

Note that the tiles are much smaller on mine, so you can tell mine is much smaller than yours.  Keep in mind, Crashing Winery was an appropriate name for my map since it was so large that people's pc's couldn't handle it.  My laptop should run your map decently well, but I don't think many others will. 

Just a word of caution.  Also, if people like it but it's too large....be prepared for a grueling session of resizing.....I actually just gave up resizing mine and am currently in the process of building it back from scratch......which may be an even greater pain, so I may just go back to resizing!  :shock:



Oh, hey, Nasturtium!  On TaleWorlds you asked about weather:

Correct me if I am on but isn't the in game editor a map editor? Its fairly easy to learn, you don't need python or any of that jazz.

 Like Kong_Said, is there a way to manually set fog/weather/time of day without digging around in some obscure bit of code? Is it server dependent? I would love to be able to permanently set fog in my maps. Thanks!

I'm fairly certain that it is server dependent the way it is now.  I don't know if that's something chadz and the crew can change or if it's hardcoded by TaleWorlds.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Warcat on January 04, 2011, 07:34:37 pm
Very interesting.  I had something similar up on the servers a while back that was generally well received.  Mine just needs resizing since it's too large and was dropping fps like flies.  :o  Yours should do well I believe.....oh wait....hold the phones.....THAT is at least 5 times bigger than mine was!!!!! 

Okay, MAYBE it's size won't kill some people, but remember, most players don't have very good gaming computers, so keep that in mind.  It looks cool, but if that's your horse I see there, (and I do believe it is), you sir have created quite the large place.

This one is mine:
(click to show/hide)

Note that the tiles are much smaller on mine, so you can tell mine is much smaller than yours.  Keep in mind, Crashing Winery was an appropriate name for my map since it was so large that people's pc's couldn't handle it.  My laptop should run your map decently well, but I don't think many others will. 

Just a word of caution.  Also, if people like it but it's too large....be prepared for a grueling session of resizing.....I actually just gave up resizing mine and am currently in the process of building it back from scratch......which may be an even greater pain, so I may just go back to resizing!  :shock:



Oh, hey, Nasturtium!  On TaleWorlds you asked about weather:

I'm fairly certain that it is server dependent the way it is now.  I don't know if that's something chadz and the crew can change or if it's hardcoded by TaleWorlds.

Thanks for the feedback, I never really even though of the building as being a potential problem for fps, however since the building is relatively unimportant to the way the map actually play's, I might just take it out and put it on flat ground.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 05, 2011, 01:16:27 am
Finished my cave map!! Ill try to get it on this weekend

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Chasab on January 05, 2011, 04:43:30 pm
With the new patch i had some concerns about maps in the other thread the big ones are

"forested hill"

"Horseshoe"(possibly spawns on 2 sides of a desert, a dual leveled building in the middle)

A winter map, with a villiage on a hill. one side spawns in the villiage the other out on the flats with no cover

With a heavy emphasis on winning, with losers potentially losing/breaking equipment, i think side balance really needs to be paramount when maps get put into the live rotation.

for forested hill you mentioned that you were moving the spawns so the team that used to spawn up on the hill with tree cover would be down, thats great and probably all that needs to be done. Like i said before its a great looking map, but the "rp element" you were going for just kills one side, and unfortunately nobody RP's in this game anyways.

On the horseshoe map one team starts very close to the main building where alot of the fighting happens, as a result they have the ability to get all of their tin cans, and archers to the roof and are able to block the stairs,  before the first of enemy team even reaches the bottom of the stairs, constant archer fire, and the threat of cav turns this into a mini siege map for one side without autospawns. two things to make it a little more balanced, move the second teams spawn a bit closer to the building so that fighting will start with both teams getting to the top first, and adding a ladder to the secondary building so both sides have access.

For the wintery town map there is really nothing you can do there is no cover for the team starting below in the flats, maybe move them to the top of the big hill and let them start the attack from high up. that presents a unique battle. high ground with no cover vs low ground with lots of cover.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 06, 2011, 02:54:58 am
Finished my cave map!! Ill try to get it on this weekend

(click to show/hide)

THIS will be interesting. Hopefully as fun as it looks!  I'm looking forward to playing it.  :D
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 08, 2011, 01:37:42 am
Interesting was right ^^ on the first test a third of the players whined to change the map, a third loved it and a third found bugs  :D I doubt this one will survive long, the engine was just not made for indoor areas.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 08, 2011, 02:47:07 am
Interesting was right ^^ on the first test a third of the players whined to change the map, a third loved it and a third found bugs  :D I doubt this one will survive long, the engine was just not made for indoor areas.

It's ironic you should say that.  I'm working on resizing my Crashing Winery map which was on for a short while a few months ago.  People liked it, but it was too large and too system intensive.  I was then tasked with resizing it.  That was put on hold until after finals, and then X-mas happened, so it dropped off my to do list for a while.

 I had to start over from scratch since my pc has never liked me running that scene, much less in edit mode.  Keeps crashing, thus the name.  :rolleyes:  Took me a little over 2 weeks to finish it the first time.


!!!WARNING!!!  spoiler has a lot of pictures....around 12 actually
(click to show/hide)

Anyway, I've currently scaled mine down by 2/3, and I only have the building and a few walls--no knick knacks to make it interesting or even look like a winery.  My fps are taking a hit still, so I scale it down ANOTHER 2/3, so essentially I scaled it down to 4/9.  I still see the same fps numbers.  As you said, the engine just doesn't seem made for indoor maps.  Also, I'm running on a pretty decent laptop.  I run the game nearly maxed out, and I've even tried turning my settings down low, but no dice.  I was able to edit some on my friend's pc, which is how I got the screenshots, but his pc is a gaming mammoth, so he doesn't count.  :lol:

What I've found, and what I've been told is that most people play on pcs that can't handle very large maps, or maps with lots of stuff.  So, when I say that I play 90% of all the maps online with 90~110 fps consistently, and my Crashing Winery knocks me down to 50~60 fps unless I'm staring at a wall, I think this is a lost cause......Airith, I'm sending you a pm apologizing right now...this map just isn't very conceivable as I once thought it was. :(
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on January 08, 2011, 09:14:39 am
Ok, that cave map...

Sorry to say, I find it too difficult to play. There are a lot of spots where players can get stuck inside the walls. Also, it just becomes a mess of players stuck in narrow hallways. It was a good try but I think this one needs to go away.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 09, 2011, 09:31:18 pm
Here's the 1.3 version of Horseshoe.  I've made several large changes to try and address issues that existed with 1.2.  If anyone wants to take a look at it and give some feedback it would be appreciated.

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2489

(click to show/hide)

The principle changes are thus:

# Change log:
#
# 1.3
# -Significantly reduced the height and scale of "the Hill" and altered the Hill's building. Re-added access to the roof.
# -Moved the Hill's staircases to an even more central position.
# -Moved Battle team spawns to diversify conflict areas and spread out traffic.
# -Added the Guard Tower to the Island to off-set the strategic importance of the Hill.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 09, 2011, 09:36:02 pm
I think shrinking the hill and adding the tower in the center were very good choices.  I think this should balance out fairly well.


In the "Submit New Map Ideas" thread, Helrekkr suggested this:

(click to show/hide)

Just something quick i found with google image search, but i guess it's fairly close to what i was going for, with a focus on keeping the fight on the edges (on the battlements/towers mostly, possibly with the occasional crumbling wall allowing for a gap where the unaware could fall :P ) instead of inside to keep things interesting (and dangerous).


So, I'm giving it a shot.  This is Sky Castle version .100!


(click to show/hide)


As per his request, I'll be throwing in a few nasty falls, so watch your step!

Oh, and right now, the size of my file is a cool heavy 12kB.  :P
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on January 10, 2011, 02:07:47 am
Looks cool so far. I remember your crashing winery from back when I was a rider...I liked it :). It never crashed on my computer, and I also didn't notice any FPS problems.

Also, about M&B and indoor scenes: I don't think M&B does any vis culling AT ALL. That's why, when you first spawn inside a castle, and sweep your view around, it stutters a moment, because it is loading all the models and textures of enemies behind the walls. I could be wrong, but I'm certain that it doesn't have any specialized indoor vis algorithm like BSP or portals.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 10, 2011, 03:10:32 am
I'm pretty sure of this as well, since there is nothing in the map editor to help you manage what the engine will try to render.

Love the prelims on the castle in the sky :-)

EDIT:  I tried implementing extremely high/steep elevations on another map with deadly ravines that we were discussing on the old forum.  I found that there were some serious glitches in the game engine when I tried to walk or jump off these extremely high cliffs.  Something to do with how the game engine tracks a characters movement over the terrain map.  Just a heads up that you should be prepared to make many of the deadly ledges out of scene props instead of a very sharp drop off of the terrain field.  I experimented slightly with putting little barriers as lips on the cliffs, but nothing conclusive about whether this really helps.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 10, 2011, 04:42:01 am
I'm pretty sure of this as well, since there is nothing in the map editor to help you manage what the engine will try to render.

Love the prelims on the castle in the sky :-)

EDIT:  I tried implementing extremely high/steep elevations on another map with deadly ravines that we were discussing on the old forum.  I found that there were some serious glitches in the game engine when I tried to walk or jump off these extremely high cliffs.  Something to do with how the game engine tracks a characters movement over the terrain map.  Just a heads up that you should be prepared to make many of the deadly ledges out of scene props instead of a very sharp drop off of the terrain field.  I experimented slightly with putting little barriers as lips on the cliffs, but nothing conclusive about whether this really helps.


Thanks. 

Yep, I've already encountered that issue about jumping off cliffs.  :mrgreen:  I'm going to try to make it obvious where you can and cannot fall off, like the railing, you cannot fall off the edge there.  I'll try that idea about putting barriers as lips on the cliffs.  I will try to make sure that wherever you can fall, if you do, you will die.  I know sometimes landing on a slope actually saves you just barely, so I've implemented a barrier to serve for a flat surface to fall on, just in case.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 10, 2011, 06:14:43 am
I look forward to trying the fruits of your labor.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 10, 2011, 05:40:42 pm
Changes coming to Caverns:
(special thanks to Xavier for the pics and suggestions.)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 10, 2011, 06:21:33 pm
Hey Nast, have you fiddled with this at all?  It could just screw everything up, but I remember you talking about how to get the lighting more moody.

Add the "sf_indoors flag to the specific scene you want, in module_scenes.py, like so:

  ("multi_scene_1",sf_generate|sf_indoors,"none", "none", (0,0),(100,100),-100,"0x00000001300389800003a4ea000058340000637a0000399b",
    [],[],"outer_terrain_plain"),

Using this method the only ambient lighting in the scene will be what you add to it. Hope this helps. :D
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 11, 2011, 06:01:17 pm
I only wish I could fiddle with it, but since I am stuck using a Vista machine I can't get the accursed compiler to work  :? didn't your brother or someone have the same problem? Were you able to work around it somehow?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 11, 2011, 07:24:32 pm
Oh of course, I'm an idiot.  No we just did things the same way you do hehe.  I'll try compiling a few maps today with the indoors tag in them to see if there's an obvious output you could add to your txt file.

EDIT:  Okay I tried it out on one of my maps.  Simply change the 256 value in you map's scenes.txt code to a 257.  It reduces ambient light dramatically.  You'll probably want to add some torches and what not.

scn_rudi_horseshoe rudi_horseshoe 256 none none 0.000000 0.000000 100.000000 100.000000 -100.000000 0x00000000d00785630004cd160000492d000003fc00006478
  0
  0
 outer_terrain_desert

EDIT:  I'm also assuming you don't have any other tags in the code so you do in fact have a 256 in your map's lines.  If not let me know.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 12, 2011, 10:45:19 pm
Alright, so the swamp map I was experimenting with was clearly too demanding on my computer for it to be viable.  However, I decided to instead utilize the swamp terrain on a small scale in a section of a new map I'm working on.  It's called Aqaba.  A walled desert port city straddling the harbor.  Lots of elevation, rooftops, bridges, swamp, etc.  It's currently in my 1.0 state, meaning totally playable but not yet playtested on the servers and still in need of a lot of aesthetic additions and tweaking.  The basic structure, however, is in place.  I'd love any feedback people have.  It's now packaged on the repository with my most recent (and barring disaster, final) version of Horseshoe.  Here's the link and some screens.  Teams spawn in the lower right and left corners of the city in the Bird's Eye screen.

Repository (http://"http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2489")

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on January 13, 2011, 04:17:41 am
I will post mine here as soon as I finish updating the last one, should be tomorrow.  I've updated two, one in progress, and made a brand new map.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Moofed on January 13, 2011, 08:26:16 am
My WIP: River Fort

A pseudo-symmetrical map for battle mode.  Currently takes the peasant ~28 seconds to get to the dummy in the fort from spawning by the carts.  The perimeter fence is a barrier (I hate invisible walls).

This is my first attempt, so please point out any obvious defects or hate.  I still need to add the flags, but not sure where to put them.  I'm also not sure if I like the fort design.

How can I test with equipment?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 13, 2011, 03:54:33 pm
My WIP: River Fort

A pseudo-symmetrical map for battle mode.  Currently takes the peasant ~28 seconds to get to the dummy in the fort from spawning by the carts.  The perimeter fence is a barrier (I hate invisible walls).

This is my first attempt, so please point out any obvious defects or hate.  I still need to add the flags, but not sure where to put them.  I'm also not sure if I like the fort design.

How can I test with equipment?

(click to show/hide)

Looks good.  All I can think of for you to do it two things.

1:  Check the center of your bridges (which you've probably already done) to see if you get stuck walking across them where the two pieces meet.

2:  The fort seems a little small and narrow.  Make it a little wider at minimum, and I think it should be fine.



It's a little difficult for me to see any problems though, but then again, I specialize not in the normal, but in the strange.  :twisted:
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on January 13, 2011, 05:19:07 pm
Looks good for a first attempt. Maybe use the smooth tool on some of the terrain elevation and texture jaggies. Haha, but who am I to give advice for cosmetics?

Maybe consider adding some ruins north of the fort, could be a sniper position for archers.

Oh and about the invisible map limits...just make sure players always know in which direction the opponent is located and leave some space from their spawns to the edge, and you should be fine. An artificial border would bother me even more than the invisible edge, to be honest.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Moofed on January 13, 2011, 06:00:46 pm
Thanks for the feedback!

No problems with the bridge middles, but I will thoroughly test them again.

A ruined tower on the island has crossed my mind.  Would go well with the ruined bridges.

I'll tweak the fort some, maybe try a different set because the "small_wall" for this castle's texture is not small at all, or even shaped right, so I cannot easily add cover to the stairs and walkways.

Invisible walls aren't usually an issue unless you're cavalry and get drawn away from the central area.  But since I hope for this to be a cav friendly map it's a concern to me.

I've used the smooth tool often, but I do see some places that need it, especially the shorelines.

Thranduil, I like your Sky Castle, reminds me of the PC game Stratosphere.  :)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 13, 2011, 06:14:57 pm
It looks good Moofed!  I agree that smoothing shorelines would help, a brush size of 6-7 with a weight of .02 and low hardness should do the trick.  Also agree that some small structure to the north would be a good idea.  Just something to offset the main building and set up a bit of a crossfire for ranged players will keep them from focusing too heavily on incoming infantry.  The fort may or may not need work, I'd say it needs to be playtested first to know for sure so don't stress about it too much.  An alternative to your edge fence could simply be an elevation jump of a couple of meters.  Keep it fairly steep, use the brown stone texture on the slope, and slap some rocks along it from time to time.  It will create a clear visual barrier that may appear more natural than the fence.  Then just use invisible barriers to make it real.  That's purely aesthetic though and for my two cents the fences are fine if you don't want to do more work in that department.  Keep up the good work and thanks for contributing!

Edit:  Just to elaborate on map edges for everyone.  It's been my experience that people don't mind invisible walls.  They mind running INTO invisible walls.  The edge of the map can be tricky because options feel limited for keeping people inside.  I've found though that invisible barriers are fine as long as there is SOME visible element to define where that wall is.  A line of trees paired with an invisible wall works.  The first time someone tries to go past them and can't they say, "Oh, can't go past those trees," and they never think about it again because they now know where the map's boundaries are even though it isn't a solid, impassable obstruction.  Just my observation on the subject.  Other opinions?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on January 13, 2011, 09:02:20 pm
I think it doesn't even need the visual cue, if you make sure the player always knows where he should be headed, and if you leave enough space from map features (spawn, cover) to the invisible border. If you do add visual cues, I'm sure they work exactly like you've described. It's kind of hard to place visual cues along the whole map border, though, especially on larger maps.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 14, 2011, 02:30:29 am
Luckily (or not so luckily), classes have been cancelled for today and tomorrow!  Which means I had a little more time to make one more mistake in life.  :lol:


Pueblo Village:
(click to show/hide)


All that's left are barriers to prevent people from trying to climb out and I'm finished.  Oh, and a few rocks here and there around the barriers, just for looks.


***EDIT***

And it is finished!


http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2501


Now to add it to my all-in-one download on the Finished Maps thread.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on January 14, 2011, 01:56:44 pm
Very cool. All your maps are quite exceptional.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 14, 2011, 02:50:04 pm
Very cool. All your maps are quite exceptional.

Thank you.  Sadly, I feel like an idiot right now, because I forgot to put the rest of the entry points to prevent random spawning and master of the field points!  Haven't done that in like 7 maps!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 15, 2011, 09:55:15 pm
Hmmm....Sky Castle may need a little editing.  People don't really go downstairs, and on the spawn outside the castle, sometimes someone spawns outside the fence and has trouble getting back in.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 15, 2011, 11:10:27 pm
Alright, so the swamp map I was experimenting with was clearly too demanding on my computer for it to be viable.  However, I decided to instead utilize the swamp terrain on a small scale in a section of a new map I'm working on.  It's called Aqaba.  A walled desert port city straddling the harbor.  Lots of elevation, rooftops, bridges, swamp, etc.  It's currently in my 1.0 state, meaning totally playable but not yet playtested on the servers and still in need of a lot of aesthetic additions and tweaking.  The basic structure, however, is in place.  I'd love any feedback people have.  It's now packaged on the repository with my most recent (and barring disaster, final) version of Horseshoe.  Here's the link and some screens.  Teams spawn in the lower right and left corners of the city in the Bird's Eye screen.

Repository (http://"http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2489")

(click to show/hide)


 Hey Kong, I got a chance to play through your map this morning, it looks great! good job on the wetlands. The map is small, with clean lines and I did not encounter any glitches in half an hour running around and jumping on stuff. My only worry is that the bridge detracts from the swamp combat, hopefully people will not run across it en-masse and make this great map become yet another bridge chokepoint map.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on January 16, 2011, 12:06:53 am
I've noticed that spawn points are not really accurate in M&B. Sometimes, people spawn a few feet away from the entry point. Also, it seems that some of the entry points are ignored and people spawn in a very tight group around some entry points, although there would be other entry points quite a bit away, which are free. Maybe this has to do with player number increase over the default 64?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 16, 2011, 03:48:26 am
Well, part of it has to do with the fact that for battle there are ONLY two spawn points.  So the entire team spawns in the general area of spawn point 0 or spawn point 32.  All the other points are just to help provide spawn locations for deathmatch games.

Hey Kong, I got a chance to play through your map this morning, it looks great! good job on the wetlands. The map is small, with clean lines and I did not encounter any glitches in half an hour running around and jumping on stuff. My only worry is that the bridge detracts from the swamp combat, hopefully people will not run across it en-masse and make this great map become yet another bridge chokepoint map.

I'm glad you had a chance to look around.  I'm also hoping that it isn't just a bridge crush, but I wanted to provide a fairly exposed option for cavalry to get around.  I'm hoping it's less attractive to archers and infantry.  Guess we'll see!

@Thranduil: I'm wondering if it would look cool to use some of those flat valley rocks or whatever they're called as overhanging formations extending out above the town to simulate the feel of the pueblo village being tucked under the cliffside.  Just a thought.  Purely aesthetic.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 16, 2011, 04:20:39 am
@Thranduil: I'm wondering if it would look cool to use some of those flat valley rocks or whatever they're called as overhanging formations extending out above the town to simulate the feel of the pueblo village being tucked under the cliffside.  Just a thought.  Purely aesthetic.

Hmmm....interesting....I'll look into that. Good idea.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on January 16, 2011, 06:33:54 am
This is what I've been working on. 


(click to show/hide)

As you can see, its Helm's Deep from LOTR, based heavily on the movie version, with a few tweaks to make it more playable and more accurate to the book.  I've only been working on it for 2 days and its very early WIP still.  Most all the walls are up but that's about it :P  I also did a little bit of terrain modding and painting of course, but it still needs a long way to go.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 16, 2011, 09:50:51 am
Looks pretty cool so far man.  Is the plan to make it a siege map?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on January 16, 2011, 08:23:16 pm
Yeah definitely siege.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on January 16, 2011, 11:03:15 pm
Awesome, can't have enough siege maps.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 16, 2011, 11:48:29 pm
(click to show/hide)
Simple celtic circle map, I kept the map size small as possible and placed virtually no objects besides the bare minimum in order to make room for more trees.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 16, 2011, 11:50:16 pm
Just last night I was thinking about making a stonehenge map.  Good thing I decided to hold off!  Looks good already man!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 17, 2011, 02:01:11 am

@Thranduil: I'm wondering if it would look cool to use some of those flat valley rocks or whatever they're called as overhanging formations extending out above the town to simulate the feel of the pueblo village being tucked under the cliffside.  Just a thought.  Purely aesthetic.

What chy'a think?  Honestly, this is not my area of expertise.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 17, 2011, 04:35:32 am
If you use the Vallet_Rock_flat prop blown way up and ingrease its Z axis greatly it will look more rocklike and stop your textrures from looking so stretched out. I have heard my clanmates complaining that there are not enogh side passages for flanking on this map.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 17, 2011, 06:37:34 am
Side passage?  Okay.
(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 17, 2011, 07:51:07 pm
Neat, Your propensity to grind out work in the editor amazes me  :D Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 17, 2011, 07:52:45 pm
This is what I've been working on. 


(click to show/hide)

As you can see, its Helm's Deep from LOTR, based heavily on the movie version, with a few tweaks to make it more playable and more accurate to the book.  I've only been working on it for 2 days and its very early WIP still.  Most all the walls are up but that's about it :P  I also did a little bit of terrain modding and painting of course, but it still needs a long way to go.

THis map looks great! I can't wait to play it on the server soon.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 19, 2011, 02:18:40 am
Alright, I finished putting barriers in the side passage and I finally uploaded pics to show changes I made to Sky Castle like right after it came out.  I just wanted to give both a time for people to test out.  All I did was move the gate house to face the other spawn so maybe some people will go downstairs and look around.  I also did a little beautification (caught two ramps sticking out of a wall.   :oops:  And I enlarged the other spawn so people won't spawn outside the barrier.


(click to show/hide)


Links to download are the same as they were before.  :wink:
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Warcat on January 19, 2011, 04:27:11 am
Played that map earlier, was a neat map, but wow, that file is HUGE.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on January 19, 2011, 04:59:50 am
Finished Helm's Deep, check the finished maps thread :)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 19, 2011, 05:54:37 am
Played that map earlier, was a neat map, but wow, that file is HUGE.

lol, I KNOW!  I probably said it before, but there's some kind of bug in my game that if I don't carefully watch the file size, it might spike ultra high!

Take Pueblo Village for example.  I've done a lot of terrain modification, put a lot of objects and a TON of barriers, yet the current file size is less than 100 kB.  Of course, after Sky Castle, I watched the file for Pueblo Village like a hawk!


Finished Helm's Deep, check the finished maps thread :)

Hope to see it on the server soon.  What I've seen of it, it looks fun....though I might have to make an archer character specifically for that map! :P
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on January 20, 2011, 07:35:05 am
Well I've just started development on a snowy map with two tent-filled encampments with a mostly open field between them and a small forest to the side, along with a shallow stream cutting across the center. Any recommendations? Ideas?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 20, 2011, 08:19:08 am
Screens PLZ!!!!   :)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on January 20, 2011, 11:42:30 pm
Had to unfortunately ditch the snowy theme due to Village_hut_a (The tents) seeming out of place... it's going to be Vaegirs vs. Nords. The initial terrain layout is done, here it is.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 21, 2011, 10:35:24 pm
Thran, thought I would pop in and give you some feedback after playing several of your maps

 Played your sky castle map earlier, I had fun, but most players thought it was way too large, after 5 rounds the score was 1-1, my entire clan commited mass suicide by jumping off the side of the castle to speed up the round. I would suggest you revert the map back to a smaller version to speed things up. 

 Your canyon village map is a hit after adding the side passage, great job! The only complaint I heard from folks was the surreal nature of the canyon walls.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Thranduil on January 21, 2011, 11:15:57 pm
Thran, thought I would pop in and give you some feedback after playing several of your maps

 Played your sky castle map earlier, I had fun, but most players thought it was way too large, after 5 rounds the score was 1-1, my entire clan commited mass suicide by jumping off the side of the castle to speed up the round. I would suggest you revert the map back to a smaller version to speed things up. 

 Your canyon village map is a hit after adding the side passage, great job! The only complaint I heard from folks was the surreal nature of the canyon walls.

Thanks for the feedback!  I'll try and make updates as I find time.   :wink:
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 22, 2011, 01:01:42 am
Naval engagement. This is tricky to do sice players who fall in the water with ahorse will live when they hit the sea floor. I am adding a AI barrier half way down the 200 meter drop, so when horses hit it they die and the rider still has to fall 100 meters.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on January 22, 2011, 01:10:46 am
<< Finished Product: Entrenched Encampments >>
(click to show/hide)

Finished. Spawns are good, I might add some AI mesh for bot battles.
NOTE: It looks better on foot. Trust me.

South = Ruins
West = Spawn (Sarranid?)
East = Spawn (Vaegir?)
North = Forest
Center = River/Farm

It's a mostly open map with a bit of vegetation. I personally love it so far, and hope the players wont' just charge down the middle like headless chickens.

For example, the Vaegir's home base is a fairly fortified point. The river is hard to cross (Spikes in the shallows) and there's a small fortification nearby. They also have instant access to the forest.

On the other hand, the Sultanate has access to a large ruins site and is given cover by some scattered debris and the farmhouse.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on January 22, 2011, 01:17:55 am
Nastur, think you could add some fires around the sinking boats?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on January 22, 2011, 05:56:02 am
Naval engagement. This is tricky to do sice players who fall in the water with ahorse will live when they hit the sea floor. I am adding a AI barrier half way down the 200 meter drop, so when horses hit it they die and the rider still has to fall 100 meters.

(click to show/hide)
I made a map similar to this once but I lost it when my HD crashed...

What I did was put barrier around everything so people couldn't fall off, but that took a lot of work.  I just hope your idea works correctly, otherwise admins will have to kick a lot of ppl who fall.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 22, 2011, 09:31:28 am
I am adding a AI barrier half way down the 200 meter drop, so when horses hit it they die and the rider still has to fall 100 meters.

Have you gotten this to work?  In my attempts the horse falls very far and then just stops at the ai_barrier without taking damage.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on January 25, 2011, 11:42:39 am
How are you guys doing ceilings and floors for indoor maps? Unless I use a prefab room, they don't provide any ceiling or floor objects. I'm having a hell of a time trying to make walls into floors/ceilings without things getting all uneven and crazy.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 25, 2011, 05:29:06 pm
I made a map similar to this once but I lost it when my HD crashed...

What I did was put barrier around everything so people couldn't fall off, but that took a lot of work.  I just hope your idea works correctly, otherwise admins will have to kick a lot of ppl who fall.

  I have run out of time to finish this map, if anyone wants the files for it to play around with and finish let me know.

Kong: I have not tested this yet I will let you know as soon as I do.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 25, 2011, 06:24:24 pm
How are you guys doing ceilings and floors for indoor maps? Unless I use a prefab room, they don't provide any ceiling or floor objects. I'm having a hell of a time trying to make walls into floors/ceilings without things getting all uneven and crazy.

Unfortunately, this game has very little support for indoor maps.  It lacks the option to make "brushes" which are basically just blocks tat you shape and texture yourself to make walls and so forth.  Because of this, you're sort of limited to using the pre-fab rooms.  The only other option is to mash a lot of random sceneprops together like you describe, but this is both time consuming and imperfect.  Check out the sceneprop "arabian_ground"  it might save you some work.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Mak33 on January 25, 2011, 06:43:55 pm
If I may write about my opinion, and more of a concern for a brief moment....

Why is there such a push for creativity and unrealistic themes in "mapmaking"?  Why can't someone take a simple neighbor hood landscape and convert it into the virtual world of cRPG?

At least half of the maps on the cRPG servers lose the immersion factor and overall are not enjoyable to play due to the very unrealistic nature of the geography and geology of the allowed playing area.

Why can't maps be more simple, the way they were in medieval times... even current times for that matter.  What's wrong with having a simple hillside with a dense treeline, scattered evergreens, and some uneven ground?  For that matter, what's wrong with having a large hillside as the playing field?  It's simple, yet very realistic.

Why the push to insert scenes from LOTR into map making??  I think that the more simple the map, the more enjoyable it is and it also boosts the immersion factor for players.

Why can't we get as simple as this:

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Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Memento_Mori on January 25, 2011, 06:55:10 pm
If I may write about my opinion, and more of a concern for a brief moment....

Why is there such a push for creativity and unrealistic themes in "mapmaking"?  Why can't someone take a simple neighbor hood landscape and convert it into the virtual world of cRPG?

At least half of the maps on the cRPG servers lose the immersion factor and overall are not enjoyable to play due to the very unrealistic nature of the geography and geology of the allowed playing area.

Why can't maps be more simple, the way they were in medieval times... even current times for that matter.  What's wrong with having a simple hillside with a dense treeline, scattered evergreens, and some uneven ground?  For that matter, what's wrong with having a large hillside as the playing field?  It's simple, yet very realistic.

Why the push to insert scenes from LOTR into map making??  I think that the more simple the map, the more enjoyable it is and it also boosts the immersion factor for players.

Why can't we get as simple as this:

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Please more simple maps where you aren't forced to go to the choke point because it's the only source of defence/offense in the map.
In example, field by the river or whatever that map is called where everyone rushes the ruins, it's a rather large map, but we all end up at the ruins. Less Counter-Strike/Call of Duty maps please, more medieval skirmish/battle maps not every skirmish was fought in a town or village. Just my opinion, I do enjoy most of the maps made but it seems you're drifting away from medieval skirmishes/battles and more into Call of Duty town/village/castle/dungeon/dwarven kingdom maps.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 25, 2011, 07:04:18 pm
I'll claim a little guilt for this.  My maps do tend to be more "counter-strike" since that's where I learned to make maps in the first place.  The other issue is that quite honestly, making an open-field map is rather boring, and feels like you haven't contributed anything new.  But regardless, I will make a new effort to develop two or three maps that are more in the vein of what you guys describe because I think you are more or less right.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on January 25, 2011, 08:04:43 pm
If you want a very simple map, either a) people will whine about cavalry being OP,
b) people will complain about it being too big, and/or c) you might as well put in Random Plains.  Not to say I don't like these maps; they are actually quite enjoyable.  However, I don't think the general crpg population will like them.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on January 25, 2011, 10:44:24 pm
Well, the base maps have several LARGE open field type maps but the server admins tend not to put those in. I think there might be one or two that are in rotation on the US servers. My personal opinion is that I do not like wide open maps because a)I have no cover and b)I have no cover. Why do you think all the infantry run immediately to those ruins? Better chance of survival. Its tactically your best option. Otherwise, you get run down by cav from all directions or get a 100 arrows in you.

There are several maps in roation now that are outdoor and basically free of buildings. But they provide some cover from trees. I like those maps. I'm sure some open field maps can be made. From my limited experience with the editor, it seems like those can be slapped together in about 10 minutes.







Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Mak33 on January 26, 2011, 03:57:43 am
Well, the base maps have several LARGE open field type maps but the server admins tend not to put those in. I think there might be one or two that are in rotation on the US servers. My personal opinion is that I do not like wide open maps because a)I have no cover and b)I have no cover. Why do you think all the infantry run immediately to those ruins? Better chance of survival. Its tactically your best option. Otherwise, you get run down by cav from all directions or get a 100 arrows in you.

There are several maps in roation now that are outdoor and basically free of buildings. But they provide some cover from trees. I like those maps. I'm sure some open field maps can be made. From my limited experience with the editor, it seems like those can be slapped together in about 10 minutes.

I'd have to say I do not enjoy "indoor" maps, however I understand that I'm most likely the minority.  I think many cRPG members like "indoor" maps.

On the topic of more open maps or more open fields... I enjoy these situations more often.  Reasoning?  Well, because it makes the attacking and defensive strategy more interesting.  Villages don't make the fighting interesting, especially when placed directly in the middle of where the two teams spawn.  It's a never ending fight of rushing to the buildings then battling around it.  Once in a while you'll see a band of randoms flanking... which is strategy.  I understand that running to the nearest object is strategy.  It obviously protects the player from arrows or other objects in flight.  But that becomes too common of a strategy and doesn't make for any interesting battles.

Viewing how clans will maneuver around a large barren field or how pubbers will discuss a plan of attack then execute, I feel is much more interesting, which makes for a more enjoyable experience within cRPG.  It requires more thinking, more immersion, and more team work.  I think that's why most of us are here... to immerse ourselves in the battles of medieval times.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 28, 2011, 09:14:13 am
(click to show/hide)


Seige map I am working on this month, I found a way to make a nice destroyed wall using the two Stone_heap models and the Stone_step model. I tried to make a hastily built defense behind it but i dont think it looks hasty enough  :lol:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on January 28, 2011, 07:18:46 pm
I'm finishing up my first two maps, ever. The first is a small skirmish type map, called Misty Mountain Hop. I name my maps after songs. :wink:
(click to show/hide)

The second map is an open field map. But I couldn't just make an open field. Thats too boring. Anyway, this one will probably grind your system to a halt but we'll see. Its still a work in progress, approx 50% done, called Fields of Gold.
(click to show/hide)



Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 28, 2011, 09:51:31 pm
I tried to make a hastily built defense behind it but i dont think it looks hasty enough  :lol:

Angle the walls slightly.  Straight up and down looks too well constructed for hasty.


Congrats Kung Fu!  Thanks for contributing!  I tried the dense foliage thing too and haven't quite gotten it to be feasible for everyone's computers but I hope we can find a way because I love the idea.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on January 29, 2011, 02:49:49 am
Angle the walls slightly.  Straight up and down looks too well constructed for hasty.

On a side note, I hate it when map developers put large walls (IE: Fortress Walls) all vertical but with differing heights. It looks so sloppy, just angle the damn walls.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 29, 2011, 08:59:32 am
Well, the problem with that is that angling them looks even worse.  Because the bricks aren't laid with gravity in mind and because the uprights or whatever they're called (the things archers hide behind) will also stick up at a weird angle.  Also, the walls will invariably overlap in a really weird way.  There are a couple of castle models that have inclined battlement pieces you can use, but if you aren't building one of those castles you're kinda outta luck.  I tend to just try and put a turret or something in between to break up the line and allow the battlements to be at different heights.  But that might not work well either if it's a castle you need access to.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on January 29, 2011, 10:21:32 am
Well, on a side note..
Update my maps, revamped a little bit. They got mixed reviews on their first run through the rotation today -- most liked Entrenched, but even then I added more anti-cav measures. I "fixed" Snowy wastes (hopefully)

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2527
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 29, 2011, 06:59:21 pm
Hey whalen, congrats on getting your maps on NA! I played them both last night and here are some observations/ suggestions.  The first map with the camps played fairly well, you can't go wrong with a nice open field to run around in, two suggestions: widen the bridge by at least 2x, and dput some kind of fence or something at the invisible edge walls of the map, I noticed cav and infantry repeatedly running into them.

 The second map needs some indication of where people should go, players went in every direction and action was sparse and spread out, maybe a road?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on January 29, 2011, 07:36:33 pm
Got to play your maps last night just a bit, Whalen. Only played one round of Entrenched so I can't really comment on it yet til I see how people move when they spawn. Gut reaction was, I'm gonna get run over quick. Gah, no cover!

Snowy Wastes was a bit large. Like Nasturium said, most of my team had no idea where to go at first. We just kept wandering around and eventually the two teams circled back and found each other. It got better after a few rounds but definitely some paths would be helpful.

I, for one, am always glad to see new maps.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on January 31, 2011, 03:48:11 am
Kong ming: your new faux-swamp map went over very well with no balancing complaints, and only minimal and unfocused bitching. The only notable bug is that the swadian spawn needs the stable model removed, as players get glitch stuck in beetween it and the wall upon spawning. Also; the consensus among the clan was that the wooden walkway against the wall crossing the swamp could use widening, and the building connected to the domed building across the brindge that lines up with the bridge on the swadian side needs lowering.(sorry I forgot to take screenshots, ask me if I muddled up the explanation .)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on January 31, 2011, 05:16:55 am
Thanks for letting me know, I didn't even realize Airith had put it up on the servers.  I'll definitely fix the spawn, and my intention with the wooden bridge was that it was only wide enough for single-file and therefore not an ideal option to get across.  I'd like to see how people choose to play it.  I'll have to jump back into the map to know what you mean by the lowering of the Swadian side building.  Thanks for the input!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Welcome_To_Hell on February 02, 2011, 03:29:53 pm
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Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on February 02, 2011, 04:06:31 pm
Now I'll have to change my name to Henry V.

I didn't know you made maps Welcome to Hell, what you might do to make it better though is add some potholes in a few places, put a few rocks, and mix up the terrain a little.  Add some dirt and mud textures lightly mixed in with the other, since its very homogeneous right now.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on February 02, 2011, 06:17:33 pm
Lookin' good, agincourt? Please use spoiler tags, thanks!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on February 03, 2011, 08:55:41 am
Okay, updated Snowy_Wastes and Encampments again.
Some more eye-candy, some balancing and marks for map edges to discourage people from bumping into them.
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2527
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on February 03, 2011, 10:10:41 pm
How many times have you altered your maps? It seems to take awhile for the admins to get them on in the first place and I think they're still on version 1 of yours.

Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on February 03, 2011, 10:24:11 pm
Three or four times each.
I PM'd Airith, but alas, he ignores the PM box.
I'll spam some more.  :D
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 03, 2011, 10:56:02 pm
Airith's been a bit out of touch lately, busy schedule and what not.  If you haven't already, I'd recommend using version numbers on your maps so people can tell if they are up to date or not.  Just a thought.  If you're really ambitious, keep a changelog.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on February 04, 2011, 12:20:36 am
Three or four times each.
I PM'd Airith, but alas, he ignores the PM box.
I'll spam some more.  :D

Dude, you gotta give it up eventually. After all, art is never complete, only abandoned.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on February 06, 2011, 08:51:31 pm
Three or four updates isn't alot.
Also, played your bridge over troubled waters. Great map.
Bushes are kind of annoying though.

<--- Throwing Lance Spammer
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on February 07, 2011, 02:32:03 pm
I'm working on a small forest fortress with double walls:

(click to show/hide)

I was wondering on how many trees I can add. Any recommendations? I currently have 60, but it's not enough for a believable forest ring around the castle...
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Dexxtaa on February 07, 2011, 03:14:16 pm
I have nothing constructive to say.
 
But that is one cool-ass castle yo
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Assarhaddon on February 07, 2011, 04:18:10 pm
Zagibu the small forest fortress with double walls looks nice.

I take it one team spawns inside the other outside. Is this a battle map or siege?
In neither case. The outside team is gonno need some cover and you wanted more trees.
So how about removing all trees from the opposite side of spawn and placing them to spawn side.

Of course this brakes the illusion the castle been inside a forest if thats what you wanted.
But a castle build to guard some barbarian frontier that start next to a large forest is not bad neither.
Maybe even remove the side trees aswell and place some barley fields so you get really thick forest to spawn side.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 07, 2011, 06:47:04 pm
Not a bad suggestion.  Also, bushes use far less processing power than trees and if you scale them quite large, are very good at making forests feel much denser.  In fact some of them look like trees when big enough.

I'll also just speak up quickly for the cav players out there who like to complain about all the new maps.  If it is one team inside, one team outside, you may want a ramp or two that the attacking team can ride up to get on the walls.  Not easy for cav by any means, but at least possible for them to be useful.  It's hard to see in the screenshot, but I'm assuming you have a gate on the front there, that should help.

Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on February 07, 2011, 07:17:25 pm
I add as much as I can, spawn with 200 bots and see how my framerate is. Not very scientific.

I'm not sure what your goal is for the forest. If you want it to look thicker, I also would suggest different sizes and types of trees. Bushes of varying sizes also add to the lushness of everything and makes things look more random rather than placed.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on February 07, 2011, 07:46:04 pm
Kong Ming,

I played your Aqaba map for the first time yesterday and there is one major issue you or Airenth should be able to fix in 30 seconds. One team spawns in/near a horse stable thing. But the last row of players spawns behind it and cannot get out. There's about a six inch space between the back of the stable and the wall. I was lucky enough to spawn there for three rounds. Obviously, easiest fix is to move the stable forward a foot or two or the spawn a few feet.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 07, 2011, 08:51:48 pm
Thanks, Kung Fu, this issue has been brought up and will be addressed soon! Along with a couple of other spots where you can get stuck.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on February 07, 2011, 10:02:49 pm
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. The screenshots are still a very early WIP. It is a siege map, so I will add cover for the attackers. I've loaded the "Battle on Ice" native map today to check how many trees are in use there, and it's quite a large number, probably close to 200. So I think I should be fine adding some more. I'll also add some bushes, thanks for this input.

The fortress has a main gate that leads directly into the courtyard. From there, you can get to the top walls via stairs or the large tower. The lower walls can be reached through the top level of the gatehouse. The flag is inside the viking keep, and this keep has main doors to the courtyard, and side doors on both sides that open to the lower walls.

Attackers will be able to climb the lower walls using a belfry or ladders. From there, they can get to the top walls through the gatehouse top or they can walk around the fortress on the lower walls and break into the castle through one of the side doors. From the top walls, they can also drop to the courtyard and break through the keep's main gates. Last but not least they can also break down the outer main gates to enter the courtyard. And portable siege ladders are of course always an option, directly into the keep, or to climb the top walls easily.

I have no idea how the balance on this one will turn out.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 07, 2011, 10:43:23 pm
Balance on siege maps is incredibly tricky and you just can't know until people have played it a few times.  Can't wait to give it a go!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on February 08, 2011, 01:56:47 am
Seige maps are tricky..yes. I am having a ton of trouble trying to finish my seige map.

Problem 1. Headquarters flag not lowering in bot testing.
I am using headquarters_flag_code_only, and flag_swadian, but the flag refuses to lower.
(click to show/hide)
Problem 2. attackers spawning randomly,
I want the attackers to spawn on a narrow-ish path and have placed 20 or so locations on the path but they periodically spawn way down the cliff face.
(click to show/hide)

Anyone have any ideas?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 08, 2011, 08:55:08 am
No need for the props I think Lucius, not unlike MOTF, see below:

Placing the flag

Simply create an entry point with an id of 66 and your flag will appear there for the defenders.


Link to the whole thread:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,112806.0.html
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on February 08, 2011, 02:21:35 pm
Yup just put the proper entry point down.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on February 08, 2011, 04:50:29 pm
sweet thanks.  As for my other problem;

Quote
Ok so the spawner was designed to move spawns around an area.
This works great for most game modes and even for siege when all the attackers are coming from 1 side.

However if you are working on large maps or if you have spawns on 2 sides then it probably won't work.
The spawn script takes distances from the friendly base and the enemy base and does calculations around those.
It doesn't care if spawns are friendly or enemy.

What would work better is if a script could be made that puts defenders on spawns 0-31 and attackers on spawns 32-63.
My python knowledge is pretty crappy at the mo so I'm not sure if I could do this.

If anyone could it would be great, in the mean time I'm gonna swim about in the deep end.

Since there are a ton of steep elevations around my attacking spawn, I may not be able to get this to work properly, I may have to just make the attacking spawn a flat field.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 08, 2011, 05:17:50 pm
Yeah, I remember reading that too and thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on February 08, 2011, 07:55:42 pm
Yeah, spawning is a bit strange in siege mode. In Khirin castle, I've noticed that the first spawn in new rounds is for the attackers like in battle mode (they all spawn around spawnpoint 31), and only once they are killed, one of the other spawnpoints is selected. This is not the same for defenders, though.

Also, I've noticed that in the native maps, spawnpoints are mixed, e.g. in Brunwud castle, 51 is inside the castle. So I think what the other guy wrote about the distance and calculation according to danger could well be correct, except, I think, for spawns 0 and 31, which probably signify the "defender camp" and "attacker camp". After all, how should the script be able to determine where the defender or attacker base is, if not using some entry points?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 09, 2011, 05:41:38 am
Yeah, if you hunt around on the taleworlds forums you can find mention from people that some Mods have gone so far as to write their own new scripts to handle siege spawns instead of the Native ones.  Apparently this works much better though I don't know exactly what the change is.  Maybe some brave soul should mention this to chadz and co.  Not like they're busy or anything.  :wink:
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Airith on February 10, 2011, 12:05:41 am
Yeah, spawning is a bit strange in siege mode. In Khirin castle, I've noticed that the first spawn in new rounds is for the attackers like in battle mode (they all spawn around spawnpoint 31), and only once they are killed, one of the other spawnpoints is selected. This is not the same for defenders, though.

Also, I've noticed that in the native maps, spawnpoints are mixed, e.g. in Brunwud castle, 51 is inside the castle. So I think what the other guy wrote about the distance and calculation according to danger could well be correct, except, I think, for spawns 0 and 31, which probably signify the "defender camp" and "attacker camp". After all, how should the script be able to determine where the defender or attacker base is, if not using some entry points?
Just wanted to post: Do not try to figure out the script for how siege mode spawning works. It is a bloody mess of 500 lines of code. (You can try but that was a good many hours wasted of my life) All you have to do is place 0-31 defenders, 32-63 attackers, 66 flag. The gist of it is that it figures out 0 and 32, then all spawns that are near them, but far from the other, are now the defender/attack spawns. (Which explains the weirdness in the native maps) The script also take into account height when placing defenders... Somewhere. Just remember siege is backward from battle, 0 is defenders and 32 is attackers.

chadz was talking about rewriting the siege spawn script, but that's something that would be done way down the line from now as there are many other important things to do first.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Warcat on February 10, 2011, 05:52:26 am
Any clue if strategus is going to have new or bigger siege maps to fit with the new siege stuff and not be so buggy? If so, do you need any more volunteers to help make/expand them?
Title: Re: Maps in Development - Two Forts
Post by: Infamy on February 11, 2011, 03:42:12 am
This is my map I am currently working on.  Its called Two Forts.
(click to show/hide)
The map is rather large - 42 seconds from both spawns to center bridge - so I am probably going to trim it down some before submitting it.

Let me know what you think, its basically 2 forts divided by one river and 3 crossings/bridges - rope bridge in thick forest, stone bridge in clear area(center), and a rocky clearing in a middle of thick bushes.

Thanks for input - hopefully have it submitted this weekend or so..
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 11, 2011, 06:38:15 pm
Looks pretty good man, can't wait to see what it's like!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on February 11, 2011, 06:44:52 pm
Looks good. I do agree it seems a bit large. Its been my experience that, unfortunately, 80% of the map will not be used. Everything will likely happen at the bridge/river area. So you may want to short up either the whole thing or the sides a bit. Otherwise you have a lot of pretty, but dead, space. Thats more a personal preference though. Otherwise, I think it looks nice.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Infamy on February 11, 2011, 11:07:40 pm
Thanks for input - I am not sure if it was necessary but I put the whole map in a boundary box -  Also lightened the flora up by about 25% to increase fps, removed all particle effects except 2 - and found that I had about 30 objects floating under the map where I had elevated but didn't remove props.

I have noticed like you said Kung Fu, that on large maps people tend to focus entirely on the chokepoint/s  - not much of a worry

I am gonna tweak it a tad more and then submit it for approval.

Thanks Again :D
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on February 19, 2011, 09:08:21 pm
  I need some help! I have a siege map currently in rotation on NA 100, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to fix it. The problem is the flag, it works fine when I test it in the editor, but when it loads on the server it will not show up on the pole. Even though the faction of the defenders if swadian, a rhodok flag without a pole shows up hovering half inside a wall and cannot be captured either at the main flag or the floating one.

  The flag point is set at 66 and I did not put down any props, just the entry point. Any ideas? This is driving me nuts.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on February 19, 2011, 10:32:31 pm
I'm no help with that question.

I have my own though. Is there a way to make an object cause damage like walking into a fire hurts you?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 20, 2011, 12:30:31 am
If there is I'd love to know about it.  To my knowledge, NO.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on February 20, 2011, 01:18:17 am
  I need some help! I have a siege map currently in rotation on NA 100, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to fix it. The problem is the flag, it works fine when I test it in the editor, but when it loads on the server it will not show up on the pole. Even though the faction of the defenders if swadian, a rhodok flag without a pole shows up hovering half inside a wall and cannot be captured either at the main flag or the floating one.

  The flag point is set at 66 and I did not put down any props, just the entry point. Any ideas? This is driving me nuts.

I'm sure you have already tried this, but delete everything, the flag, pole, entry point. Then save and rebuild using the module system. Load the map again, make sure there is no entry point 66 somewhere (scroll the list), then put down the entry point 66, save, exit, rebuild, and you should be fine.

I constantly have strange problems with entry points, and they usually get fixed if I do the above.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on February 20, 2011, 06:14:52 am
Thanks for your help! I cannot use the module system since I have Vista as an OS, this has never been a problem fro me in the past. I tried going in, deleting all the points and re-placing them, so far no dice, I will give it another shot ><.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on February 20, 2011, 10:48:23 am
You could also try changing the map to another game mode and see if there is a flag somewhere. Or maybe add it to another one of the siege slots? I've never used Kong Ming's method, so I can't really help you, there, sorry.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nasturtium on February 20, 2011, 08:38:55 pm
I am pretty sure I figured it out! I used a hq_flag prop for a support column, since the editor is seriously lacking in random bits of lumber. I think this is the cause of all my problems. Oh happy day!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on February 20, 2011, 08:42:27 pm
Yeah, it's actually kind of strange that the dev didn't implement more generic walls, supports, ramps, etc. Glad you figured out the problem.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on February 23, 2011, 08:51:18 am
I've been working on a siege map for a bit and all I have left to do is balance and terrain/decoration work. An overview of it is as follows:
(click to show/hide)

There's a lot of variation in height which I've been missing in previous attempts, and I've managed to avoid too many right angles. Attackers will spawn in the valley at A, the capture flag is at B, C and D are the two gatehouses and there's a side-door directly to the capture area at E.

I'm open to suggestions on where would be best to put a siege tower/ladders.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Warcat on February 23, 2011, 02:27:57 pm
If that side door is going to lead to the flag so directly, I'd get rid of the stairs outside. I'd suggest a ladder left of C and a tower to its right. Maybe a couple ladders on the back side as well.
Title: Phoenix Castle
Post by: Ronan on February 25, 2011, 11:40:32 pm
(click to show/hide)
Im trying to upload screen shots on my "beta" map still in development. How do upload screen shots/Files?visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on February 26, 2011, 12:22:03 am
(click to show/hide)
Im trying to upload screen shots on my "beta" map still in development. How do upload screen shots/Files?
Find an external image hosting site. I'm using Uploadit at the moment. For the actual map files, use mbrepository.

I finally managed to make something that didn't look so bland in another siege map I was working on trying to utilize the full_keep prop to the fullest, and terrain gen gave me an awesome plateau with a river on one side and cliffs on the other:
(click to show/hide)

Details can be a bit hard to make out in the shot I took, so I'll try to cover most of it. There are three entrances to the inner ward where the capture flag is; a sally port door on top of some narrow stairs west of the keep, a gate-less gatehouse to the northeast of the keep and a siege ladder into the hole in the southeast wall on the second floor of the keep. The outer ward has a sally port door to the southeast on top of the plateau with stairs leading up the cliff-side, a siege ramp on the wall to the south, a ladder west of the southern gatehouse and another ladder on the wall short wall segment to the west. The inner walls can only be reached through the keep and are separated from the external walls, which have exposed stairs to the east and west ends, and internal stairs in the external gatehouse and eastern tower. The edges of the picture are pretty much the edges of the map, so the entire area north of the castle is out of bounds.

The attackers spawn all over the southern field, but I'm not exactly sure where to spawn most of the defenders. There aren't too many out-of-the-way places to put spawn points and I'd rather not have them spawn all over the walls. I'm also considering a door in the east or west entrances of the external gatehouse. The proximity of the ladder/siege ramp makes it seem like the gatehouse would fall way too quickly without it. I'd like to hear someone's thoughts about that.

EDIT: Oh, and I found out that siege engines don't like bridges. It got halfway across, and then turned upside down.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on February 26, 2011, 12:45:58 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 visitors can't see pics , please register or login

K. Lets see Phoenix Castle?
Doesnt really do it justice, but Im using "steam" for the screenshots and then putting on the uploadit web page and this is what I get. I dont seem to have a folder in M&B thats for screenshots... so weird
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 26, 2011, 07:30:34 am
The folder should be in your "My Documents" folder actually.  Weird.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Professor on February 26, 2011, 09:13:08 am
I decided to leave my floating castle idea by the wayside and work on something a bit more interesting. This map is intended to be a fast-paced siege map. The premise is an airship-to-airship boarding party, with the airships boarding at the bow (front), and the defender's flag located in the stern (rear) castle. For those who are worried defenders will be easily overwhelmed, I'm working on cluttering up the main deck somewhat with barricades and such. There are a few areas where defenders will be able to choke off the attackers - namely, at the boarding points (harder to do), and at the ramp leading up to the stern castle.

The following image is taken from the view of one of the pirate ships. The boarding ramp is visible, as well as some of the details. In the distance is the back ramp which leads up to the defender's flag. From the point where this picture was taken, it takes about 36 seconds to run, unimpeded, all the way up to the flag area. This time will become longer as more debris is added to the deck, to ensure that the attackers aren't able to easily overwhelm the defending team by virtue of faster spawns.

What do you guys think? I think I could have this map ready to test by tomorrow afternoon, and I'm eager to see if the NA_Siege server wants to give it a whirl.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 26, 2011, 09:36:20 am
There is one trick with floating maps that we haven't yet been able to solve.  Falling.  Obviously the map can be high enough that any footsoldiers that fall will die, but anyone on a horse will survive the fall when their horse takes the impact.  The only semi-solution found is to block the spawn area in with ai_barrier's so that horses cannot leave spawn.  It works, but obviously cav players hate this solution (and rightly so).  Anyone who figures out how to kill a horseman who falls off a high cliff will earn an extra special reward of some type from me.  Note, we've already tried putting an ai_barrier parallel to the ground and still quite high, to kill the horse and then let the player fall farther to their death.  Unfortunately, the horse just stops at the ai_barrier without taking any damage and the player is stuck until they dismount to their inevitable death.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on February 26, 2011, 01:56:57 pm
I guess the only half-solution to this problem is to make a plateau. The rider falls, horse dies from the impact on the plateau, then he can jump off the plateau to commit suicide. Something like this:

Code: [Select]
Floating map

     |1
     |
     V
|2 ____ Plateau
|  |  |
V  |  |
__________ Ground
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on February 26, 2011, 02:03:56 pm
I finally managed to make something that didn't look so bland in another siege map I was working on trying to utilize the full_keep prop to the fullest, and terrain gen gave me an awesome plateau with a river on one side and cliffs on the other:

Details can be a bit hard to make out in the shot I took, so I'll try to cover most of it. There are three entrances to the inner ward where the capture flag is; a sally port door on top of some narrow stairs west of the keep, a gate-less gatehouse to the northeast of the keep and a siege ladder into the hole in the southeast wall on the second floor of the keep. The outer ward has a sally port door to the southeast on top of the plateau with stairs leading up the cliff-side, a siege ramp on the wall to the south, a ladder west of the southern gatehouse and another ladder on the wall short wall segment to the west. The inner walls can only be reached through the keep and are separated from the external walls, which have exposed stairs to the east and west ends, and internal stairs in the external gatehouse and eastern tower. The edges of the picture are pretty much the edges of the map, so the entire area north of the castle is out of bounds.

The attackers spawn all over the southern field, but I'm not exactly sure where to spawn most of the defenders. There aren't too many out-of-the-way places to put spawn points and I'd rather not have them spawn all over the walls. I'm also considering a door in the east or west entrances of the external gatehouse. The proximity of the ladder/siege ramp makes it seem like the gatehouse would fall way too quickly without it. I'd like to hear someone's thoughts about that.

EDIT: Oh, and I found out that siege engines don't like bridges. It got halfway across, and then turned upside down.

Looks very cool. I've also wanted to do a siege map with a river and the turin castle props. Now I have to rethink my design.

Don't worry about defender spawn too much, the engine will usually select a spawn point that is free from attackers. You must distribute defender spawn a bit, so that at initial spawn, they have a chance to defend the walls, but at later times, they can also get back to the flag quickly. Note that at initial spawn, ALL attackers will spawn at spawnpoint 32, just like in battle mode, so put that somewhere with enough space around it. Defenders seem to use all of their spawnpoints at initial spawn.

About the siege engine and the bridge...have you made sure the entry points for the belfry have their z axis all the same direction?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on February 26, 2011, 05:05:38 pm
There is one trick with floating maps that we haven't yet been able to solve.  Falling.  Obviously the map can be high enough that any footsoldiers that fall will die, but anyone on a horse will survive the fall when their horse takes the impact.  The only semi-solution found is to block the spawn area in with ai_barrier's so that horses cannot leave spawn.  It works, but obviously cav players hate this solution (and rightly so).  Anyone who figures out how to kill a horseman who falls off a high cliff will earn an extra special reward of some type from me.  Note, we've already tried putting an ai_barrier parallel to the ground and still quite high, to kill the horse and then let the player fall farther to their death.  Unfortunately, the horse just stops at the ai_barrier without taking any damage and the player is stuck until they dismount to their inevitable death.
We do have a solution: put AI barriers around every possible area you can fall.  The only problem is that takes a lot of time for most maps.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Kong Ming on February 26, 2011, 05:45:13 pm
Nasturtium ran into major problems with that beyond simply the time and effort involved.  Apparently lots of issues with random teleporting and such.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Professor on February 26, 2011, 06:06:58 pm
If someone wants to ride around on a horse in a siege map, I'd say that's their (stupid) call. Especially if the map is floating. On the main boat, it won't be a problem since the edges of the boat are such that it's impossible to even jump off on a horse. I might make plateaus underneath the attacker's spawns though. That's an excellent idea, zagibu.

Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on February 26, 2011, 07:10:50 pm

id say good sir, I thank you... Now Ill post actual screenshots later. I Bow to your wisdom Kong Ming!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Leiknir on February 26, 2011, 08:43:16 pm
If you fall deep enough, both rider and horse get damaged (Like from the gatehouse in turin castle)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on February 26, 2011, 10:07:40 pm
Looks very cool. I've also wanted to do a siege map with a river and the turin castle props. Now I have to rethink my design.

Don't worry about defender spawn too much, the engine will usually select a spawn point that is free from attackers. You must distribute defender spawn a bit, so that at initial spawn, they have a chance to defend the walls, but at later times, they can also get back to the flag quickly. Note that at initial spawn, ALL attackers will spawn at spawnpoint 32, just like in battle mode, so put that somewhere with enough space around it. Defenders seem to use all of their spawnpoints at initial spawn.

About the siege engine and the bridge...have you made sure the entry points for the belfry have their z axis all the same direction?

I never even realized that the full_keep prop used in one of the player-made battle maps was the same as the one from Turin castle until I played around with the editor. It doesn't matter what props you use as long as you have a different basic layout. I've got a little bit more entry placement and decoration to do (and I need a name), and then my map should be ready for upload.

Regarding the siege engine problem, I'm pretty sure the entry points aren't the problem. I've noticed that the front wheels of the thing seem to follow the entry points, and the back of the thing sticks to the ground to make it look smooth going over a hill. A prop bridge is not 'ground', so the front wheels stay along the proper z-axis of the entry points, and the back end of the thing falls through, causing it to flip backwards.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on February 27, 2011, 01:30:27 am
Ok, heres the most recent update to "Castle Phoenix". Tell me what you all think by what you see. Im hoping this will be an interesting map to Siege on.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on February 27, 2011, 08:52:00 pm
Where do you attack from?  Is it just the main gate or are there ladder/siege tower points?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Airith on February 27, 2011, 09:45:57 pm
Current siege scene I'm working on, not going too well:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


3 ladders, 1 sally door, 1 gate house that has 2 destructible doors, 2 smaller gatehouses that are open, the tall tower in the middle has 1 destructible door to get in, flag by the keep.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on February 27, 2011, 10:35:21 pm
Where do you attack from?  Is it just the main gate or are there ladder/siege tower points?
Ill put up ladders in frond and sides. Not exactly sure where quite yet. There is also an underground route. its a long ways, but will be easy access for attackers. I also thing the underground route drops the FPS down a lot. So we'll see how people like it. No siege towers though, i think. It depends on what people think really. So, you will have an avenue of attack from all angles...
Start points I havent decided yet. I think it will be off to the side from the front. Again not sure yet. Ill post more shots straight up and down once I figure out how to hide the last bit of the area thats underground.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on March 02, 2011, 02:31:19 am
"Phoenix Castle" will be ready by Saturday! Just need to place entry points for attackers and defenders... Some tweaking and testing and itll be ready for the masses! My first map ever. Hopefully a well received Siege map.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Mustikki on March 07, 2011, 12:39:09 pm
I has been making a village map inspired by the current maps.

Overview
(click to show/hide)

Village view
(click to show/hide)

Village view
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on March 07, 2011, 07:54:05 pm
Nice river...did you place it by hand, or was it generated this way?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Mustikki on March 08, 2011, 12:01:44 am
i generated it and tweaked afterward.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on March 27, 2011, 04:54:38 am
Are people abandoning this topic ans just making a topic for their maps now? seems like it and if it keeps going that direction foresee a very clustered map-editing section. :P Just an opinion.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on March 27, 2011, 11:44:13 am
I think finished maps deserve an own thread. This thread here can be used for work in progress and asking for tips etc.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on March 29, 2011, 01:54:11 am
My map had a problem with people spawning where they shouldn't, so after toying around with spawn points for two hours (making them lower to the ground, making them higher up, only placing them out in the open, only placing them with TONS of clearance, etc) I think I've found what the problem was. If you don't have a full 64 entry points (0-63) the game will sometimes spawn players at 'default' entry points instead of sticking to the ones that exist. I quit the map and reloaded as defender for a solid fifteen minutes and haven't seen any problems as of yet.

EDIT: Math is hard.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Leiknir on March 29, 2011, 11:00:11 am
If you don't have a full 62 entry points (0-61) the game will sometimes spawn players at 'default' entry points instead of sticking to the ones that exist.
If thats the problem, it's 64 enty points, up to 0-31 and 32-63
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Radament on March 29, 2011, 01:58:35 pm
I has been making a village map inspired by the current maps.

Played the last map you linked and i found it awesome , even the little sacrifical skeleton of the bloody cow in the middle of the stonhenge thing was a pearl.
carry on and replace all the old and ugly maps plz :P
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on March 29, 2011, 07:29:38 pm
If thats the problem, it's 64 enty points, up to 0-31 and 32-63

Err, yes, I meant 64. I don't know why I said 62. Apparently my subconscious is bad at math.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: IG_Saint on March 29, 2011, 07:45:08 pm
I has been making a village map inspired by the current maps.

I played that map yesterday, one big problem it has is that the tower that you can enter is much closer to one spawn than the other. It leads to massive camping. I'd move or remove that tower.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Nurax on March 29, 2011, 07:45:42 pm
ERROR: Number of passages for site scn_multi_scene_77 exceeds 16. Exiting network manager...  OK!
 Deleting resources...  Exiting physics manager... 

The admin gets this error if he wants to add my map, anyone got an idea how I could solve thsi problem?
Could the code be wrong?scn_multi_scene_17 multi_scene_17 256 none none 0.000000 0.000000 100.000000 100.000000 -100.000000 0x00000002200005000005f57b00005885000046bd00006d9c
  0
  0
 outer_terrain_plain

Would be great if you know a solution :)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on March 31, 2011, 09:09:38 am
Got a basic layout done for another siege map, was looking for some balance input on the design before I start landscaping:

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

I planned to have both gatehouses gated. The attackers would spawn in the fields towards the 'front' end of the castle (past the outer gatehouse), with the 'back' end of the castle (most of the area past the center wall where the inner gatehouse is) sitting on the edge of a sea-cliff denying access.

There's basically only three non-ladder ways into the flag area (left wall, right wall, gatehouse when it's open), might that be too restrictive? I've been considering putting a sally door to the flag area in the side-wall there, but that would skip past the entire rest of the castle. I could make it a long narrow path around the side of the castle up stairs (to deny horses and slow people down) in full range of archers to balance the risk. I'd like to hear what people think about this.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on March 31, 2011, 08:35:19 pm
I say include the side door. The two open ways into your inner castle look like they could be easily defended, so a side door is probably needed.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on April 02, 2011, 12:47:15 am
I apologize in advanced for posting too much.

I've always found it fun to fight inside Swadian cities in the single-player, but I haven't seen many battle maps that have gone for that feel. The following is an overview of my attempt at a Swadian city battle map:
(click to show/hide)

And because you can't really see anything with all the tall buildings in the way, here's a version of that image with helpful scribblings on it:
(click to show/hide)

The red line around the outside is the boundary of the playable area, the blue lines are open streets, the yellow lines are pedestrian-only routes (horses don't do stairs), and the green circles are the spawn points for both teams. I'm not sure how performance will handle all the buildings with lots of players, but I could clear out some of the background buildings to optimize things.

Any thoughts? Too big, too flat, not enough alleys?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Bjord on April 03, 2011, 04:50:05 am
WIP:

Woods Entrenchment

One main route, one side passage. Takes place in a forest with medium cover for both sides (I tried balancing as best I could).

It's rather simple in terms of details, but it's aimed at being comfortable in manners of playing. There are far too many tedious maps in most of the rotations at the moment.

(click to show/hide)

A few worries regarding performance, since there are quite a handful of trees present. I will be working more on colouring the terrain to make everything look more smoother.

For next time I'm planning on adding to the illusion of being enveloped in forest(in the most optimal way).

Opinions so far?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on April 03, 2011, 07:57:50 am
Seems overly flat. Like, 'max-radius level tool dragged around the entire map' flat. You want to at least have (very) gentle hills. The map will still be functionally flat, but the very slight elevation differences will mix up the lighting and shadows a bit and make the ground not look like AstroTurf.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Bjord on April 03, 2011, 12:24:25 pm
Seems overly flat. Like, 'max-radius level tool dragged around the entire map' flat. You want to at least have (very) gentle hills. The map will still be functionally flat, but the very slight elevation differences will mix up the lighting and shadows a bit and make the ground not look like AstroTurf.

Oh no I have some hills here and there. But it's mostly visible from the  ground.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on April 04, 2011, 12:02:40 am
AstroTurf.

You thinkin' what I'm thinkin?

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Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Arked on April 07, 2011, 02:47:17 pm
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3171/mb36z.jpg
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2432/mb37.jpg
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on April 07, 2011, 08:17:15 pm
I don't like symmetrical castles.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on April 08, 2011, 12:31:16 am
Yeah, you should generally avoid having a perfectly rectangular profile castles in siege maps, it's a bit dull to look at and usually doesn't have much mechanical depth either when you consider the single wall that goes around the entire thing in a straight line. It seems to work for the earth/viking props oddly enough, but stone squares always look bad. I definitely like the basic concept of a 'platform' castle instead of a traditional curtain-wall though. I've wanted to do something like that for awhile, but could never figure out a good way to do it. You should also try to get some vertical variety as well, maybe by using both 'platform' sections and curtain-wall areas.

Also keep in mind that I'm pretty sure castle_h_battlement_barrier (IIRC) at default tilt/scale isn't steep enough to prevent players walking right up the side, if that is what you're using. I'd also recommend attempting to use some more conventional props within the same style-set to avoid things looking messy.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Arked on April 08, 2011, 01:06:54 am
Yeah, you should generally avoid having a perfectly rectangular profile castles in siege maps, it's a bit dull to look at and usually doesn't have much mechanical depth either when you consider the single wall that goes around the entire thing in a straight line. It seems to work for the earth/viking props oddly enough, but stone squares always look bad. I definitely like the basic concept of a 'platform' castle instead of a traditional curtain-wall though. I've wanted to do something like that for awhile, but could never figure out a good way to do it. You should also try to get some vertical variety as well, maybe by using both 'platform' sections and curtain-wall areas.

Also keep in mind that I'm pretty sure castle_h_battlement_barrier (IIRC) at default tilt/scale isn't steep enough to prevent players walking right up the side, if that is what you're using. I'd also recommend attempting to use some more conventional props within the same style-set to avoid things looking messy.

Im making this map mainly for clan event, after that ill try to rebuild it a bit to fix the wall climbing problem. For now its there intentionally.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/795/mb38j.jpg
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4932/mb39.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/g/mb40j.jpg/

and i dont see anything messy here ;p
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Peasant_Woman on April 08, 2011, 01:50:14 pm
I need some balance critiscism of a new siege map i'm working on. The castle is inspired and named by Warkworth castle from northumbria, england. Layout idea 'borrowed' from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plan_of_Warkworth_Castle%27s_keep,_1909.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plan_of_Warkworth_Castle%27s_keep,_1909.jpg).

(click to show/hide)
here it is unannotated for clarity

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with my scrawled annotations;

Orange - raised and unreachable except by stairs/ladders
Red - blockade with door openable (from both directions) by defenders, breakable by defenders.
Pink - Sally doors. Top is a hidden cave with breakable gate. Bottom is two normal castle doors (NOT SALLY DOORS, sally doors are stronger, but 2 normal doors = 1 sally door roughly)
Purple - Attacker spawns (roughly)
Light blue - Defender spawns
Dark blue - Ladder starts at the . and line shows where it raises to. The three leftmost ladders start inside the walls and lead to another wall section and are generally shotcut ladders
White - gatehouse with portcullis
Black - siege tower and route

Flag is directly in front of the big round keep but before the stairs which I helpfully forgot to mark. This is still a work in progress, texturing on terrain needs some seeing to and outside castle is mostly flat. Are there any glaring balance issues that you can see?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Arked on April 08, 2011, 01:54:20 pm
Remove the fire, that amount of it will cause heavy lags for a lot of ppl.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Peasant_Woman on April 08, 2011, 02:24:37 pm
Okay so I changed the fire to be only 2 village_fire_big props instead of 7, scaled large for the same effect. Anything else?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: ToxicKilla on April 10, 2011, 12:17:46 am
Im making this map mainly for clan event, after that ill try to rebuild it a bit to fix the wall climbing problem. For now its there intentionally.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/795/mb38j.jpg
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4932/mb39.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/g/mb40j.jpg/

and i dont see anything messy here ;p

I wondered when someone would try this. This looks like it would be fun to play. Nice work :D
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Beauchamp on April 10, 2011, 12:19:40 pm
Recently I started to work on a new map for Fallen (or any other) Tournaments.

atm its like 50 percents done - there are 3 fighting grounds planned (2 pits and 1 main arena) - arena should only be for finals, nobody that won't prove himself worthy in the pit will be allowed to fight there :) pits are mostly done, arena still needs quite a lot of touches as well as the outside (some more decorations and main "square of champions" that i haven't even started yet).

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Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Mustikki on April 10, 2011, 06:01:17 pm
It's looking very good Beau  :D
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Beauchamp on April 10, 2011, 06:59:41 pm
It's looking very good Beau  :D
ty, unluckily i'm not able to find appropriate gear for lamhban as its probably only included in cRPG. so maybe i will have to replace him with some burning witch instead :o)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Mustikki on April 10, 2011, 07:08:56 pm
Yea, there ain't great helmet with hat on props. So i had to replace Lamhban aswell, in my castle map with Wooki.
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Arked on April 10, 2011, 07:35:29 pm
ty, unluckily i'm not able to find appropriate gear for lamhban as its probably only included in cRPG. so maybe i will have to replace him with some burning witch instead :o)

Dont forget to add Dave!
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Wallace on April 10, 2011, 08:06:46 pm
Woke up this morning decided today was MAKE A MAP DAY

So I thinks to myself... what haven't people seen yet... and came up with a port assault to a castle approach.. it's going to be like taking the outer wall of a real keep! So i tossed together a construct and wanted to know what everyone think of the idea

(click to show/hide)

the field area will be the outer courtyard of a keep and where the flag will go
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zagibu on April 11, 2011, 04:10:01 pm
I see water, a cliff, two gatehouses and a wall segment. I guess it's nice?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Wallace on April 11, 2011, 05:07:59 pm
I finished it... it's called The Beach of Hadrian's Wall
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on April 12, 2011, 12:48:59 am

Working on a map for the cRPG Olympics.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3847.0.html

I'm thinking two separate stadiums with spectator seats, separated by a gated tunnel.
There's also going to be a nice shiny entrance hall.

Pics coming up.
Suggestions?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on April 12, 2011, 02:21:25 am
Working on a battle map with some tall grass and shrub... I decided to use the "grass" prop and just make it about 4-5x taller. When im in edit mode its tall, but when Im not and i test it with bots the grass is short (normal hight). I dont understand, why is it doing this? Is it just me or the prop? If someone can test it by placing some grass making it 5x or so, taller and then test it by exiting out of editor mode and play the game as you would normally and tell me what happens to u i would be grateful. I dont want to have to go through and delete it all because of this...errrr

In edit mode
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not in edit mode
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Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on April 12, 2011, 04:00:53 am

I've had that glitch too when placing some scenery objects / vegetation and editing the size. I believe you have to leave "add objects" mode and reselect it. Makes it a bitch.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on April 12, 2011, 04:14:26 am
So it may be fixable?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ozin on April 12, 2011, 04:55:20 am
Ok, been working on my first map for some days now. It is nearing completion, so it would be nice to test it some before I finish it. You'll find me on IRC, so give me a shout and I'll host a server with it.

Some screens:
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 (http://bildr.no/view/862851)
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 (http://bildr.no/view/862853)
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 (http://bildr.no/view/862854)
Blue: Sally doors, the endurable ones.
Yellow: Ladders when deployed

Atm I have placed most of the spawn points for defenders in the keep, and some on the inner walls/inside the wall towers. Only a very few are placed on the outer gate-house, since I don't want defenders to spawn on the outer wall when the fighting reaches the inner wall/keep. Is this the correct approach?
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on April 12, 2011, 08:53:27 am
Heres a battle map Ive been working on... Its going to be called something along the lines of "Homesteading" due to the central local being a house that looks like a cabin. Its the only structure in the map. Any extreme elevation will be unrechable because Ill put barriers that wont allow for people to camp on high areas looking over the entire map. :P

It futures a small "tall grass area" good for ambushes and maybe getting away from archers view. It might end up being a leecher sanctuary... One cabin in the middle of the map that has a roof accessible even to cavalry. some elevation but like I said any extreme height will be blocked.

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Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Whalen207 on April 13, 2011, 06:06:35 am
Nice
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on April 15, 2011, 11:15:36 am
"Battle Creek" Its based off a park I knew very well in my home town. Its a map thats built around the creek. Its shallow, but in most places it will still slow u down to a walk. Theres lots of brush and will be some logs and rocks to hide behind. A pretty straight forward battle map where the teams start at either side of the map and follow the stream to battle...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Beauchamp on April 15, 2011, 07:49:51 pm
"Battle Creek" Its based off a park I knew very well in my home town. Its a map thats built around the creek. Its shallow, but in most places it will still slow u down to a walk. Theres lots of brush and will be some logs and rocks to hide behind. A pretty straight forward battle map where the teams start at either side of the map and follow the stream to battle...
(click to show/hide)

this looks really well
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Astinus on April 15, 2011, 07:57:54 pm
Just watch out to don't spam too many bushes cause they really kill fps
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Ronan on April 16, 2011, 05:22:13 pm
Just watch out to don't spam too many bushes cause they really kill fps


haha too many is a fine line. Too bad its impossible to set a limit on how many bushes are ok for FPS... So far its keeping with native maps FPS... But i plan is to spam them and then goo through section by section and thin them out. Dont need it to be so thick, just the allusion of thickness. And Common Plant Prop makes a really good talll grass look IMO. Im trying to make the "island" the center of the map so thats roughly where everyone will meet. I still got a long while obviously...
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: zakker on April 16, 2011, 10:34:25 pm
There is my two maps what i being working.

Deadly Arena http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2770

Farm House http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2775

Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: BlackMilk on April 16, 2011, 10:45:08 pm
Said it before and have to say it again :

zakkers 2. map, called Farm House, looks pretty cool and I really think it would be great fun to see and play on it ingame. :-)
Title: Re: Maps in Development
Post by: Vanguard Warden on May 06, 2011, 11:14:09 pm
I'm pretty much done with the Swadian city battle map I've been working on:

(click to show/hide)
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(click to show/hide)

And because the layout can be difficult to see with all the roofs and such in the way, here's the same shot with some scribbling:

(click to show/hide)

The playable area is highlighted in red, the two spawns are highlighted in green, and the paths marked in yellow can only be crossed one-way by cavalry (stairs).