cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Wookimonsta on August 01, 2011, 03:51:18 pm

Title: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 01, 2011, 03:51:18 pm
I don't know about the rest of you, but I am sick of buttlancers.
Now I see this from both sides.
On one side, I ride a lancer, and with the recent nurf to 40 degree turning, i have sadly turned into a buttlancer. Gone are the days where i could ride up to a 2h and actually outdistance a sword with my lance. Now i can only sneak up and couchlance him when he aint lookin. That shit is boring. Boring as fuck. The only skill it takes is sneakiness. And thats not what cavalry should be about. Cavalry should be about catching enemy infantry out in the open and massacring them. Because if they run into a town, they are safe, if they have lots of rocks, they are safe. But the open plain, that shit is ours, or it should be. But now if a 2h sees me, I already know that attacking from the front is just too high a risk.

on the other hand, I also run around alot as a 2h. This used to be dangerous if I saw cav, when I saw them coming towards me I knew that there was a good chance it would kill me with its lance before I got in range. But I also knew that I had a chance, that if I timed that shit perfectly, I could get the horse and then the rider on the ground. Nowadays, when I do get killed by cav, its from behind. This annoys me a great deal more than when they took me head on. At least, when you get charged by cav from the front, you went down fighting and you had a chance, a small one, but still more than if you get surprise couched from behind. It certainly feels i actually get killed more by cav now than i did before.

So here is what I suggest:
1) Return the lance turning to its old value. When WSE returns, feel free to reduce it, but the current value is just silly.
2) Massively reduce all the horses (especially the gokarts as espu calls them) maneuver. This means their turning rate is heavily reduced as is their acceleration. This means dodging on horse becomes alot harder. Also if you fail to spot a pike somewhere, you are truely fucked, as you can't slow down and turn as fast to avoid.
3) Increase the horses hp and armor. The idea being that if we turn horses into attackers, they need to be able to absorb more ranged fire.
4) This one i'm not sure about, but it seems like a good idea. Increase the horses charge by a large percentage. I know personally that in the lordly heavy kuyak i wear, horses do almost no damage to me. Even a full speed bump from a heavy horse barely scratches me. If the horse truely is a charge weapon then trampling someone should do significant damage. Unfortunately, anyone in heavy armor is rarely affected by horse bump and its the peasants that suffer, which is why im torn with this part of my suggestion.

Anyways, vote and discuss

Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Ecko on August 01, 2011, 03:54:19 pm
i hate you, jk first!
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 01, 2011, 03:56:03 pm
i hate you

BUT I THOUGHT YOU LOOOOVED ME!!!!!

anyways back on topic
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Jacko on August 01, 2011, 03:58:34 pm
Dooo eeeet
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Dexxtaa on August 01, 2011, 04:41:55 pm
I like it.

Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: cmp on August 01, 2011, 04:43:24 pm
Was already proposed as an alternative to the turning nerf, got rejected by item balancers.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 01, 2011, 04:44:42 pm
Was already proposed as an alternative to the turning nerf, got rejected by item balancers.

:(
so item balancers prefer horses to keep buttlancing people?
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Baggy on August 01, 2011, 05:13:41 pm
Was already proposed as an alternative to the turning nerf, got rejected by item balancers.
Truly shows that the Item balancers do not actually play the game.
TY Dexx....
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 01, 2011, 05:16:03 pm
Truly shoes that the Item balancers do not actually play the game.

at least none of em player lancers, amirite?
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Dexxtaa on August 01, 2011, 05:17:06 pm
Truly shoes that the Item balancers do not actually play the game.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Baggy on August 01, 2011, 05:17:21 pm
at least none of em player lancers, amirite?
usorite
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: MrShine on August 01, 2011, 05:23:51 pm
I'll preface by saying I've only ever had a c-rpg char with riding twice, once with 2 riding, most recently with 4.  My opinions are mostly based on observations from the other end of the sword/lance.

- I like the 40 degree change partially because it opened up the niche for 1-h cav a bit more, making lancers (in theory) better against infantry in charges while 1-h can focus on the archer hunting/backstabbing bit yet also play sort of a 'anti lancer' role if they can out maneuver.  Reverting this will shift cav back to the cookie cutter lancer.

One way it COULD go as I'm thinking about it is differentiate types of cav a bit more: ie buff courser/lance type horse speed a bit but also reduce their mobility.  This would make them more ideal to be the 'thundering charge' type cav that people think about.  Then do the opposite (buff mobility, nerf speed slightly) on the '1h/HA' type cav.  That way high speed cav would be the lancer's preferred horse: high speed bonuses, bad against ranged yet (in theory) excelling against infantry.  Meanwhile high mobility cav would be weaker against infantry due to low speed bonuses yet would be able to avoid most ranged attacks.

Then for an important kicker: (ever so slightly) buff lance reach.  The 40 degree change could remain, yet cav should have a better chance against 2h swords and shorter weapons head on.  This makes different horses appeal to different roles more clearly.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Dexxtaa on August 01, 2011, 05:28:52 pm
Then for an important kicker: (ever so slightly) buff lance reach.  The 40 degree change could remain, yet cav should have a better chance against 2h swords and shorter weapons head on.  This makes different horses appeal to different roles more clearly.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 01, 2011, 05:29:48 pm
- I like the 40 degree change partially because it opened up the niche for 1-h cav a bit more, making lancers (in theory) better against infantry in charges while 1-h can focus on the archer hunting/backstabbing bit yet also play sort of a 'anti lancer' role if they can out maneuver.  Reverting this will shift cav back to the cookie cutter lancer.

Unfortunately, the 40 degree change made it ridiculously easy to avoid the lance. This is mainly why many lancers (at least it seems to me) have returned to their buttstabbin ways. If an enemy sees you they can avoid you pretty quickly. This has the effect of making the courser (a speed horse, used to be ideal for lancing) a lot less useful for lancers as its high speed and low maneuverability make it difficult to track a target that moves sideways quickly. Since the lance cannot be turned to face the enemy, one must turn the horse, since these horses are not built for this, people revert to "gokarts" that allow quick turning to engage infantry. Which seems the opposite of it seemed to me you thought was the idea (fast horses being good for lancing).

While buffing lance reach is a nice idea, it still makes it easy to sidestep the lance. This maneuver just requires a bit of speed and one can easily go to the left (the horsemans right) to entirely avoid the lance and still be in striking distance of the horse with most longer weapons.
Thought it may offset the turning range by quite a bit. I would have to see.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 01, 2011, 06:20:08 pm
lances were 3-4m in length, not 190cm! i hate that. cav should be feared when they charge strait at you, unless you have a long spear or pike ofc. but 2handers shouldn't be able to outrange them(i'm 1handed cav BTW)
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 01, 2011, 06:22:02 pm
lances were 3-4m in length, not 190cm! i hate that. cav should be feared when they charge strait at you, unless you have a long spear or pike ofc. but 2handers should be able to outrange them(i'm 1handed cav BTW)

2h should be able to outrange em?
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 01, 2011, 06:47:22 pm
2h should be able to outrange em?
shouldn't, sorry
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on August 01, 2011, 06:59:37 pm
I'm a cav build and I say no

i took a long time to adapt, i raged, i QQed and stuff. but now i found how to do a face on charge on aware infantry men. and now that I'v got it, I enjoy pwning 2 handers that think I'm some random cav noob charging them.

and they'r butthurt from a face on charge  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: _JoG_ on August 01, 2011, 08:48:09 pm
lances were 3-4m in length, not 190cm!
In both Native and crpg the real knightly lances are of that length. I guess, great lance is >3 m long.
Heavy lance is about 2.5 m long, maybe even longer.
The "length" parameter of the polearms (190 cm for a heavy lance) does not mean that the model is indeed 1.9 m long. Learn it finally!

And what's wrong with 40 degree angle restriction? I've played on my onehander cav char using a regular lance with 6 wpf in polearms quite effectively despite that restriction.

Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 01, 2011, 09:09:23 pm
I'm a cav build and I say no

i took a long time to adapt, i raged, i QQed and stuff. but now i found how to do a face on charge on aware infantry men. and now that I'v got it, I enjoy pwning 2 handers that think I'm some random cav noob charging them.

and they'r butthurt from a face on charge  :mrgreen:
he what is your way? is it efficient?
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 01, 2011, 09:10:52 pm
In both Native and crpg the real knightly lances are of that length. I guess, great lance is >3 m long.
Heavy lance is about 2.5 m long, maybe even longer.
The "length" parameter of the polearms (190 cm for a heavy lance) does not mean that the model is indeed 1.9 m long. Learn it finally!

And what's wrong with 40 degree angle restriction? I've played on my onehander cav char using a regular lance with 6 wpf in polearms quite effectively despite that restriction.
all lances should be a lot longer, about 320 qau what length says, to be fair and realistic, though horses should be more noticable :/
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: _JoG_ on August 01, 2011, 09:56:45 pm
all lances should be a lot longer, about 320 qau what length says, to be fair and realistic
The lances are fair and realistic as they are.
When speaking about "realism", I could write a paragraph or two explaining how the length and shape of the lance evolved during the centuries, telling what the "length" parameter actually means in Warband, and summarizing everything to point out why "heavy lance" cannot be longer that 190 and why 240 is ok for the "great lance". Of course, I could do that but I'm just sick and tired to pick sensible arguments for the whiny kids people who obviously will not listen to them because all they know is "all lances should be (sic!) a lot longer".
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 01, 2011, 10:29:24 pm
The lances are fair and realistic as they are.
When speaking about "realism", I could write a paragraph or two explaining how the length and shape of the lance evolved during the centuries, telling what the "length" parameter actually means in Warband, and summarizing everything to point out why "heavy lance" cannot be longer that 190 and why 240 is ok for the "great lance". Of course, I could do that but I'm just sick and tired to pick sensible arguments for the whiny kids people who obviously will not listen to them because all they know is "all lances should be (sic!) a lot longer".
if we talk about realsim qau lances the should be droped or broken on impact, longer, equiped with a greaper, handle and belt. i know a thing or 2 about lances too m8 :wink:

and if you don't be live the part about them breaking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDp9FmhHkwQ
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: dodnet on August 02, 2011, 12:27:20 am
So here is what I suggest:
3) Increase the horses hp and armor. The idea being that if we turn horses into attackers, they need to be able to absorb more ranged fire.
4) This one i'm not sure about, but it seems like a good idea. Increase the horses charge by a large percentage. I know

Yeah... let the panzers roll again. Why should cav then use any weapon if its sitting on one? Just ride anything to puree.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Dehitay on August 02, 2011, 01:42:32 am
The notorious butt lancing of cav was a huge issue way before the angle nerf. Sure, it might have increased as that would make sense considering the nerf. But I sure as hell haven't noticed any more frequency just because of how ridiculously high the frequency of it already was.

I will however admit that 2h weapons being able to outdistance a lance is kind of awkward. I wouldn't mind giving them more reach. However, in return, I would like to increase the speed penalty for trampling. I hate the way cav can loltrample 3 people and run off without fear of reprimand. Hell, I wouldn't even mind increase change damage if it brought the speed penalty up to a reasonable range. A horse would lose more than half their speed if they're tripping over a human, assuming it just don't flat out fall off its feet.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Mouse on August 02, 2011, 02:04:47 am
I used to hate cavalry to the very core of my being, but I always accepted they were an integral part of the game. Lately I've been playing one in cRPG and I do feel like the current solution to the old circle-and-poke isn't the best. Circle-and-poke is rather silly, but I agree with the OP here: the issue isn't the angle at which cavalry could strike with polearms, it was their perfect maneuverability and acceleration that allowed them to stay just out of reach the entire time they did it coupled with just how easily they can bump you.

I feel like cavalry need to be better than they are out in the open, and I feel like their proper counters on open fields need to be limited to organized infantry with missiles and pikes, not two-handed swords and other silly things. If cavalry were ever OP and needing to be nerfed, it was only because missiles were UP. I feel like cRPG caters too heavily to the two-handed crowd, too many of which think they ought to be effective in all situations. Their counters were always cavalry and missile fire, which got nerfed quite a lot harder than they ever did. (And they all carry crossbows now too. Sigh.)

I'm not turning this into an anti-two-handed rant, just observing the culture of cRPG as I see it and wishing that both cavalry were given a buff. And then archers were given a buff so that they could properly counter cavalry.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Dach on August 02, 2011, 02:11:59 am
Yep the problem is mostly the 2h stab animation that give +50ish range.

Making the greatsword having a reach of 170ish...

the heavy lance is 190 but may somewhat lose some reach because of the animation. (Never saw any topic about that to confirm thought)

Also the 2h just need to hit the horse first, which give another reach bonus in is favor.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Lordark on August 02, 2011, 08:33:20 am
Im starting to feel comfy with the new cav. I vote that we give old heavy lances the cool 'great lance' look so they have even moar reach to counter pesky greatsworders! Get behend your spear wall you damn HEEROOS! and heroines...
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: dochtorgajo on August 07, 2011, 03:04:21 pm
The lances are fair and realistic as they are.
When speaking about "realism", I could write a paragraph or two explaining how the length and shape of the lance evolved during the centuries, telling what the "length" parameter actually means in Warband, and summarizing everything to point out why "heavy lance" cannot be longer that 190 and why 240 is ok for the "great lance". Of course, I could do that but I'm just sick and tired to pick sensible arguments for the whiny kids people who obviously will not listen to them because all they know is "all lances should be (sic!) a lot longer".

Write it if you dare.  :D Or if you already did where can i find it?
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Cepeshi on August 07, 2011, 03:19:50 pm
Hm,
to be honest, the good cav still rapes me head on charging, i guess i am doing it wrong all the damn time. I find the current system much better than the old retarded one where you could just poke all around you, oneshotting people with dislocated shoulders.

I did played cav back then for one or two gens, i do have a cav char now, i am not an expert, but from the feel i have from it, its okay now.

And to them guys telling cav and archery got nerfed to hell, damn, 2hers were nerfed before that and are being nerfed with pretty much every patch now (anim change, stat change, recent mw stat changes).

And actually, while i was 2h infantry, i had easier time killing horses in old patch than i have now...when i jumpstab with danish i got often lanced before i could land a hit, but when i do ride with lance on a onehander guy, he jumpstab me before i reach him...it is all about adapting id say, no offense.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Kafein on August 07, 2011, 03:23:00 pm
I'm a lancer and I kill aware 2h people with my lance more often than they kill me or my horse

They think they will outrange me, but lances still have like a picometer more reach, thus 2h usually die trying.

However, horse charge damage and survivability should probably be doubled or tripled at least. Everyone carries xbows that oneshot horses or throwing junk submachine guns these days. That's the real problem besides 2h being hard targets.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Cepeshi on August 07, 2011, 03:25:56 pm
However, horse charge damage and survivability should probably be doubled or tripled at least. Everyone carries xbows that oneshot horses or throwing junk submachine guns these days. That's the real problem besides 2h being hard targets.

i dare to disagree, i am getting bumped by teammates for 1/4 - 1/3 of my HP on some of my chars, and my xbower for sure does not oneshot horse unless he charges straight at me and i hit him in full speed, when i hit a horse to side, he goes on usually...(do not generalize MW arbalest with all xbows, i have regular heavy and i barely oneshot horse, unless the conditions i said)
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Kafein on August 07, 2011, 03:37:22 pm
i dare to disagree, i am getting bumped by teammates for 1/4 - 1/3 of my HP on some of my chars, and my xbower for sure does not oneshot horse unless he charges straight at me and i hit him in full speed, when i hit a horse to side, he goes on usually...(do not generalize MW arbalest with all xbows, i have regular heavy and i barely oneshot horse, unless the conditions i said)

Do not generalize tank horses with all horses


and...


If a horseman wants to kill you, he has to come close, therefore making it very easy for you to headshot the horse (in fact most xbow users miss those shots less than 10% of the time and probably even less). And if he wants to survive this charge, he's better not being too slow. Good ranged players focus on cav therefore spending time in a 200m radius around enemy ranged chars is risky at best. One arrow on the side from far away is enough to make any other shot the last one for this horse.

It's quite weird to have 2 bolts/arrows/throwing things being an hard counter to horses that costs 1k + to upkeep, as nothing is an hard counter to these items (shields don't protect well on the sides and shielders are the slowest class of the game).
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 07, 2011, 04:32:50 pm
I'm a lancer and I kill aware 2h people with my lance more often than they kill me or my horse

They think they will outrange me, but lances still have like a picometer more reach, thus 2h usually die trying.

However, horse charge damage and survivability should probably be doubled or tripled at least. Everyone carries xbows that oneshot horses or throwing junk submachine guns these days. That's the real problem besides 2h being hard targets.
i have to disagreee about the outrange part. lets say a 2hander has a danish GS, 120 length. when he stabs at your horse, he gains 50 additional length, that makes 170, the lancer has 190. but, the lancer still has to reach beyond his horse which is more than 20 length, the 2hander doesn't, he only has to hit the horses head. so 2handers do outrange lances
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on August 07, 2011, 04:43:37 pm
I think the only thing left to do to horses is maybe increase the angle of use by maybe 10 degrees each side or so... It would make the world of difference because that would be all thats needed to just give the horseman the range advantaged over lolstab.

Also in relation (but not same subject) the war spear and anything under 150 length should be allowed to have maybe 70 degrees of angle at least if not more. These are shorter polearms and should not come under the constraints of the lances imo.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 07, 2011, 04:49:58 pm
I think the only thing left to do to horses is maybe increase the angle of use by maybe 10 degrees each side or so... It would make the world of difference because that would be all thats needed to just give the horseman the range advantaged over lolstab.

Also in relation (but not same subject) the war spear and anything under 150 length should be allowed to have maybe 70 degrees of angle at least if not more. These are shorter polearms and should not come under the constraints of the lances imo.
not possible to add 10 degrees, it's hardcoded, 90(native) or 40(stolen from couching). but what they can do is increase the length of lances so the outcoming angle is larger.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: IG_Saint on August 07, 2011, 04:50:23 pm
i have to disagreee about the outrange part. lets say a 2hander has a danish GS, 120 length. when he stabs at your horse, he gains 50 additional length, that makes 170, the lancer has 190. but, the lancer still has to reach beyond his horse which is more than 20 length, the 2hander doesn't, he only has to hit the horses head. so 2handers do outrange lances

Except 2h stabs gain around 75-80 range and 1h polearm stabs 50. So it's 200 (2h) vs 240 (pole). So it's actually pretty close.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 07, 2011, 04:55:51 pm
Except 2h stabs gain around 75-80 range and 1h polearm stabs 50. So it's 200 (2h) vs 240 (pole). So it's actually pretty close.
not from the other attacks
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on August 07, 2011, 05:36:04 pm
Maybe a longer lance would be appropriate then, but maybe by only 10 /20 reach or so, but then the problem may be that polearms such as the spears would lose out and become redundant without shield at stopping cav :/
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 07, 2011, 05:40:42 pm
i have to disagreee about the outrange part. lets say a 2hander has a danish GS, 120 length. when he stabs at your horse, he gains 50 additional length, that makes 170, the lancer has 190. but, the lancer still has to reach beyond his horse which is more than 20 length, the 2hander doesn't, he only has to hit the horses head. so 2handers do outrange lances

You just confused me of why you added the reach animation bonus to the sword but not the lance :?

Amount of reach added to weapon length due to animation. [disclaimer this has slightly out dated values for two handed stabby stab, it should be a wee bit shorter]

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50
Since the lance is used in one hand, it too gains +50 reach.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 07, 2011, 06:12:23 pm
You just confused me of why you added the reach animation bonus to the sword but not the lance :?

Amount of reach added to weapon length due to animation. [disclaimer this has slightly out dated values for two handed stabby stab, it should be a wee bit shorter]

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50
Since the lance is used in one hand, it too gains +50 reach.
knew i forgot something :)
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: IG_Saint on August 07, 2011, 06:24:33 pm
not from the other attacks

What other attacks? I said the exact same thing as tears..
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: dochtorgajo on August 07, 2011, 07:07:15 pm
200 to 240 is 5:6. If this great lance supposedly has 3m it means great sword has a reach of 2.5m. Some of the longest blades have like 130-140 cm plus length of hands it isnt so unreasonable. But there are few problems with this:

1. Lances ranged from 12-18 feet even more and basically would compete with length of PIKES, not some silly 2h sword.
2. Any 2hander above about 120-130....Any refences for its existance?
3. Couched lance is held almost by the end so if it has 3m you use 3m so it should have reach advantage over stab- you cant hold lance by its end shile stabbing. (This brings up question- Does couched lancing have some range change as well?) And there is a little stabbing notion with couched lance while hitting target anyway, further inceasing reach. And lastly you can couch lance and kill a man by little move from the spot you dont need 60 mph. Its still a force maybe even greater than average sword swing.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Glyph on August 07, 2011, 07:15:19 pm
What other attacks? I said the exact same thing as tears..
but ToD is awsome and you're not :lol:
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Tzar on August 08, 2011, 11:20:26 am
Agree clearly lancers should be the best killing class ingame afterall you pay for the horse so skill shouldn't matter if you reach the top in the score board cav lancers imho should be the only viable class ingame rest should be cannon fodder like pre patch also horses clearly needs more hp since i cant 1hit them with my mw flamberge when they ride towards me with full speed.
Title: Re: Stop Buttlancers
Post by: Panoply on August 08, 2011, 11:22:03 am
The angle decrease was a good idea, imo. The perpendicular stabs were kind of ridiculous, and I've always wanted to see more 1h cav.

That said, buff horse HP, so that ranged doesn't take them down as easy, but melee with speed bonus still can.

Heavier lances should be couch only, but have increased length such that they outrange the longest two handers and only pikes and long spears really compete in a head on battle where neither one would miss. Two handers might still get them if they dodged the lance tip. It'd also be cool if the jousting lance was particularly long, with low blunt damage, as tourney lances were typically longer than war lances; over 4m in length.

Unrelated note: War lances were not designed to break. Tourney lances and those used in re-enactments are made to break (eg. hollow) so that they don't impale contestants. For war, lances were stouter and banded with metal to prevent such splintering. They certainly still broke in battle, but not nearly as much as in tourneys, and they were not designed to do so.