Stop Buttlancers

[Wookimonsta]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am sick of buttlancers.
Now I see this from both sides.
On one side, I ride a lancer, and with the recent nurf to 40 degree turning, i have sadly turned into a buttlancer. Gone are the days where i could ride up to a 2h and actually outdistance a sword with my lance. Now i can only sneak up and couchlance him when he aint lookin. That shit is boring. Boring as fuck. The only skill it takes is sneakiness. And thats not what cavalry should be about. Cavalry should be about catching enemy infantry out in the open and massacring them. Because if they run into a town, they are safe, if they have lots of rocks, they are safe. But the open plain, that shit is ours, or it should be. But now if a 2h sees me, I already know that attacking from the front is just too high a risk.

on the other hand, I also run around alot as a 2h. This used to be dangerous if I saw cav, when I saw them coming towards me I knew that there was a good chance it would kill me with its lance before I got in range. But I also knew that I had a chance, that if I timed that shit perfectly, I could get the horse and then the rider on the ground. Nowadays, when I do get killed by cav, its from behind. This annoys me a great deal more than when they took me head on. At least, when you get charged by cav from the front, you went down fighting and you had a chance, a small one, but still more than if you get surprise couched from behind. It certainly feels i actually get killed more by cav now than i did before.

So here is what I suggest:
1) Return the lance turning to its old value. When WSE returns, feel free to reduce it, but the current value is just silly.
2) Massively reduce all the horses (especially the gokarts as espu calls them) maneuver. This means their turning rate is heavily reduced as is their acceleration. This means dodging on horse becomes alot harder. Also if you fail to spot a pike somewhere, you are truely fucked, as you can't slow down and turn as fast to avoid.
3) Increase the horses hp and armor. The idea being that if we turn horses into attackers, they need to be able to absorb more ranged fire.
4) This one i'm not sure about, but it seems like a good idea. Increase the horses charge by a large percentage. I know personally that in the lordly heavy kuyak i wear, horses do almost no damage to me. Even a full speed bump from a heavy horse barely scratches me. If the horse truely is a charge weapon then trampling someone should do significant damage. Unfortunately, anyone in heavy armor is rarely affected by horse bump and its the peasants that suffer, which is why im torn with this part of my suggestion.

Anyways, vote and discuss

[Ecko]

i hate you, jk first!

[Wookimonsta]

i hate you

BUT I THOUGHT YOU LOOOOVED ME!!!!!

anyways back on topic

[Jacko]

Dooo eeeet

[Dexxtaa]

I like it.

[cmp]

Was already proposed as an alternative to the turning nerf, got rejected by item balancers.

[Wookimonsta]

Was already proposed as an alternative to the turning nerf, got rejected by item balancers.

so item balancers prefer horses to keep buttlancing people?

[Baggy]

Was already proposed as an alternative to the turning nerf, got rejected by item balancers.

Truly shows that the Item balancers do not actually play the game.
TY Dexx....

[Wookimonsta]

Truly shoes that the Item balancers do not actually play the game.

at least none of em player lancers, amirite?

[Dexxtaa]

Truly shoes that the Item balancers do not actually play the game.

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[Baggy]

at least none of em player lancers, amirite?

usorite

[MrShine]

I'll preface by saying I've only ever had a c-rpg char with riding twice, once with 2 riding, most recently with 4.  My opinions are mostly based on observations from the other end of the sword/lance.

- I like the 40 degree change partially because it opened up the niche for 1-h cav a bit more, making lancers (in theory) better against infantry in charges while 1-h can focus on the archer hunting/backstabbing bit yet also play sort of a 'anti lancer' role if they can out maneuver.  Reverting this will shift cav back to the cookie cutter lancer.

One way it COULD go as I'm thinking about it is differentiate types of cav a bit more: ie buff courser/lance type horse speed a bit but also reduce their mobility.  This would make them more ideal to be the 'thundering charge' type cav that people think about.  Then do the opposite (buff mobility, nerf speed slightly) on the '1h/HA' type cav.  That way high speed cav would be the lancer's preferred horse: high speed bonuses, bad against ranged yet (in theory) excelling against infantry.  Meanwhile high mobility cav would be weaker against infantry due to low speed bonuses yet would be able to avoid most ranged attacks.

Then for an important kicker: (ever so slightly) buff lance reach.  The 40 degree change could remain, yet cav should have a better chance against 2h swords and shorter weapons head on.  This makes different horses appeal to different roles more clearly.

[Dexxtaa]

Then for an important kicker: (ever so slightly) buff lance reach.  The 40 degree change could remain, yet cav should have a better chance against 2h swords and shorter weapons head on.  This makes different horses appeal to different roles more clearly.

[Wookimonsta]

- I like the 40 degree change partially because it opened up the niche for 1-h cav a bit more, making lancers (in theory) better against infantry in charges while 1-h can focus on the archer hunting/backstabbing bit yet also play sort of a 'anti lancer' role if they can out maneuver.  Reverting this will shift cav back to the cookie cutter lancer.

Unfortunately, the 40 degree change made it ridiculously easy to avoid the lance. This is mainly why many lancers (at least it seems to me) have returned to their buttstabbin ways. If an enemy sees you they can avoid you pretty quickly. This has the effect of making the courser (a speed horse, used to be ideal for lancing) a lot less useful for lancers as its high speed and low maneuverability make it difficult to track a target that moves sideways quickly. Since the lance cannot be turned to face the enemy, one must turn the horse, since these horses are not built for this, people revert to "gokarts" that allow quick turning to engage infantry. Which seems the opposite of it seemed to me you thought was the idea (fast horses being good for lancing).

While buffing lance reach is a nice idea, it still makes it easy to sidestep the lance. This maneuver just requires a bit of speed and one can easily go to the left (the horsemans right) to entirely avoid the lance and still be in striking distance of the horse with most longer weapons.
Thought it may offset the turning range by quite a bit. I would have to see.

[Glyph]

lances were 3-4m in length, not 190cm! i hate that. cav should be feared when they charge strait at you, unless you have a long spear or pike ofc. but 2handers shouldn't be able to outrange them(i'm 1handed cav BTW)