Stop Buttlancers

[Kafein]

I'm a lancer and I kill aware 2h people with my lance more often than they kill me or my horse

They think they will outrange me, but lances still have like a picometer more reach, thus 2h usually die trying.

However, horse charge damage and survivability should probably be doubled or tripled at least. Everyone carries xbows that oneshot horses or throwing junk submachine guns these days. That's the real problem besides 2h being hard targets.

[Cepeshi]

However, horse charge damage and survivability should probably be doubled or tripled at least. Everyone carries xbows that oneshot horses or throwing junk submachine guns these days. That's the real problem besides 2h being hard targets.

i dare to disagree, i am getting bumped by teammates for 1/4 - 1/3 of my HP on some of my chars, and my xbower for sure does not oneshot horse unless he charges straight at me and i hit him in full speed, when i hit a horse to side, he goes on usually...(do not generalize MW arbalest with all xbows, i have regular heavy and i barely oneshot horse, unless the conditions i said)

[Kafein]

i dare to disagree, i am getting bumped by teammates for 1/4 - 1/3 of my HP on some of my chars, and my xbower for sure does not oneshot horse unless he charges straight at me and i hit him in full speed, when i hit a horse to side, he goes on usually...(do not generalize MW arbalest with all xbows, i have regular heavy and i barely oneshot horse, unless the conditions i said)

Do not generalize tank horses with all horses


and...


If a horseman wants to kill you, he has to come close, therefore making it very easy for you to headshot the horse (in fact most xbow users miss those shots less than 10% of the time and probably even less). And if he wants to survive this charge, he's better not being too slow. Good ranged players focus on cav therefore spending time in a 200m radius around enemy ranged chars is risky at best. One arrow on the side from far away is enough to make any other shot the last one for this horse.

It's quite weird to have 2 bolts/arrows/throwing things being an hard counter to horses that costs 1k + to upkeep, as nothing is an hard counter to these items (shields don't protect well on the sides and shielders are the slowest class of the game).

[Glyph]

I'm a lancer and I kill aware 2h people with my lance more often than they kill me or my horse

They think they will outrange me, but lances still have like a picometer more reach, thus 2h usually die trying.

However, horse charge damage and survivability should probably be doubled or tripled at least. Everyone carries xbows that oneshot horses or throwing junk submachine guns these days. That's the real problem besides 2h being hard targets.

i have to disagreee about the outrange part. lets say a 2hander has a danish GS, 120 length. when he stabs at your horse, he gains 50 additional length, that makes 170, the lancer has 190. but, the lancer still has to reach beyond his horse which is more than 20 length, the 2hander doesn't, he only has to hit the horses head. so 2handers do outrange lances

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

I think the only thing left to do to horses is maybe increase the angle of use by maybe 10 degrees each side or so... It would make the world of difference because that would be all thats needed to just give the horseman the range advantaged over lolstab.

Also in relation (but not same subject) the war spear and anything under 150 length should be allowed to have maybe 70 degrees of angle at least if not more. These are shorter polearms and should not come under the constraints of the lances imo.

[Glyph]

I think the only thing left to do to horses is maybe increase the angle of use by maybe 10 degrees each side or so... It would make the world of difference because that would be all thats needed to just give the horseman the range advantaged over lolstab.

Also in relation (but not same subject) the war spear and anything under 150 length should be allowed to have maybe 70 degrees of angle at least if not more. These are shorter polearms and should not come under the constraints of the lances imo.

not possible to add 10 degrees, it's hardcoded, 90(native) or 40(stolen from couching). but what they can do is increase the length of lances so the outcoming angle is larger.

[IG_Saint]

i have to disagreee about the outrange part. lets say a 2hander has a danish GS, 120 length. when he stabs at your horse, he gains 50 additional length, that makes 170, the lancer has 190. but, the lancer still has to reach beyond his horse which is more than 20 length, the 2hander doesn't, he only has to hit the horses head. so 2handers do outrange lances

Except 2h stabs gain around 75-80 range and 1h polearm stabs 50. So it's 200 (2h) vs 240 (pole). So it's actually pretty close.

[Glyph]

Except 2h stabs gain around 75-80 range and 1h polearm stabs 50. So it's 200 (2h) vs 240 (pole). So it's actually pretty close.

not from the other attacks

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Maybe a longer lance would be appropriate then, but maybe by only 10 /20 reach or so, but then the problem may be that polearms such as the spears would lose out and become redundant without shield at stopping cav :/

[Tears of Destiny]

i have to disagreee about the outrange part. lets say a 2hander has a danish GS, 120 length. when he stabs at your horse, he gains 50 additional length, that makes 170, the lancer has 190. but, the lancer still has to reach beyond his horse which is more than 20 length, the 2hander doesn't, he only has to hit the horses head. so 2handers do outrange lances

You just confused me of why you added the reach animation bonus to the sword but not the lance
Amount of reach added to weapon length due to animation. [disclaimer this has slightly out dated values for two handed stabby stab, it should be a wee bit shorter]

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50Since the lance is used in one hand, it too gains +50 reach.

[Glyph]

You just confused me of why you added the reach animation bonus to the sword but not the lance
Amount of reach added to weapon length due to animation. [disclaimer this has slightly out dated values for two handed stabby stab, it should be a wee bit shorter]

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50Since the lance is used in one hand, it too gains +50 reach.

knew i forgot something

[IG_Saint]

not from the other attacks

What other attacks? I said the exact same thing as tears..

[dochtorgajo]

200 to 240 is 5:6. If this great lance supposedly has 3m it means great sword has a reach of 2.5m. Some of the longest blades have like 130-140 cm plus length of hands it isnt so unreasonable. But there are few problems with this:

1. Lances ranged from 12-18 feet even more and basically would compete with length of PIKES, not some silly 2h sword.
2. Any 2hander above about 120-130....Any refences for its existance?
3. Couched lance is held almost by the end so if it has 3m you use 3m so it should have reach advantage over stab- you cant hold lance by its end shile stabbing. (This brings up question- Does couched lancing have some range change as well?) And there is a little stabbing notion with couched lance while hitting target anyway, further inceasing reach. And lastly you can couch lance and kill a man by little move from the spot you dont need 60 mph. Its still a force maybe even greater than average sword swing.

[Glyph]

What other attacks? I said the exact same thing as tears..

but ToD is awsome and you're not

[Tzar]

Agree clearly lancers should be the best killing class ingame afterall you pay for the horse so skill shouldn't matter if you reach the top in the score board cav lancers imho should be the only viable class ingame rest should be cannon fodder like pre patch also horses clearly needs more hp since i cant 1hit them with my mw flamberge when they ride towards me with full speed.