cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: tankmen on July 29, 2011, 09:09:27 am
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the reason its unbalanced ? explain and ill allow it to be kept...
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Just because.
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that's a lazy excuse....
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High damage 2h pierce?
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Doesn't it have bonus damage to shields? Pretty much every weapon that isn't a 1handed axe and has bonus damage to shield is unbalanced, yeah?
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o ya forgot about that it just feels more like a great maul swing wise than a great axe...
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Morning star is unbalanced, because its 2h light-lolhammer with piercing damage bonused to shields. It can knockdown and sometimes even crushtrough. That's the reason.
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Morning star is unbalanced, because its 2h light-lolhammer with piercing damage bonused to shields. It can knockdown and sometimes even crushtrough. That's the reason.
Hmm, yeah right. Morningstar lost the ability to crushthrough like... 3 months ago or something ? And as a pierce weapon, it could never knockdown.
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Because the morningstar is the only weapon I can think of that can allows a full strength build to oneshot anything outside of the heavy horses.
High pierce, decent speed (enough that you will never be outspammed), a little short (main balancing factor here), completely wrecks shields in no time at all, unbalanced so don't try a lot of feinting - all this adds up to a great weapon for a full strength build to go oneshotting, in my opinion. It also makes a pretty satisfying sound when you hit someone with it.
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You don't even need a strength build to one-shot everything with it. My build is 21/15, yet I can stand on a bridge with a little bit of armor on and swing away killing everything that came. No blocking needed, because everyone died in the first hit. This included someone who had at least 19 strength (last I checked) wearing an armlet, vaegir elite armor, etc, basically someone wearing semi-heavy armor with okay hit points.
Morning star is easy mode.
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Because the morningstar is the only weapon I can think of that can allows a full strength build to oneshot anything outside of the heavy horses.
Bec de corbin, anyone? :D
You don't even need a strength build to one-shot everything with it. My build is 21/15, yet I can stand on a bridge with a little bit of armor on and swing away killing everything that came. No blocking needed, because everyone died in the first hit. This included someone who had at least 19 strength (last I checked) wearing an armlet, vaegir elite armor, etc, basically someone wearing semi-heavy armor with okay hit points.
2 good solid hits for the guys in ~30-35 body armor, 4+ hits for the guys in corrazina and higher. I have the same build.
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well I actually kinda like that the morningstar is unique (shield breaking pierce) and balance wise its stats make sense. That said I think 2h does need a new specialized can opener or to have one of its blunt weapons made balanced to properly fill the role.
Doesn't it have bonus damage to shields? Pretty much every weapon that isn't a 1handed axe and has bonus damage to shield is unbalanced, yeah?
Yes, 2h shield breakers are unbalanced. Polearms on the other hand has many shield breakers that are balanced. If you compare the 2h great axe to the polearm long axe they cost about the same, have roughly equivalent range (the long axe has more range right to left 113 vs 109, the great axe has more overhead 111 vs 100 and more left to right 113 vs 108) and the only thing the great axe has to show for its unbalanced tag is +1 speed and +1 cut damage. Obviously class balance isn't done around mid tier weapons but the fact that polearms have balanced shield breakers still is important. I'm not saying both weapon classes should be equivalent in that respect but at least give both of them balanced can openers.
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Hmm, yeah right. Morningstar lost the ability to crushthrough like... 3 months ago or something ? And as a pierce weapon, it could never knockdown.
long spiked mace has pierce damage and knockdown :wink:
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well I actually kinda like that the morningstar is unique (shield breaking pierce) and balance wise its stats make sense. That said I think 2h does need a new specialized can opener or to have one of its blunt weapons made balanced to properly fill the role.
Morningstar is fine. And its correct 2h lack some balanced blunt weapon without any other bonis.
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I agree that the discrepancy between Morningstar and Bec de Corbin doesn't make much sense. OTOH, it does seem unfair that polearms have high-tier shieldbreakers that you can also duel with and 2h does not.
I would be in favour of removing unbalanced from the lower-tier shieldbreakers. I would say all, but by my own logic that would necessitate balanced GLB and such, which would be just ridicusilly.
I suppose the question is: would a balanced morning star be good enough to make all 2hers use it?
As it is, there are relatively few MS users and I seriously doubt that a balanced morningstar would be enough to tempt all the lolstabbers (myself included, to both my shame and glee) away.
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The mornning star can be used on a horse... now with 38 pierce... this gets scary... The speed bonus makes the weapon rather deadly then.
I am ok with the unbalanced.
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Morningstar has pierce so it is powerful.
IF you ask why morningstars are unbalanced question would be why are all those short 2h axes unbalanced.
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Doesn't it have bonus damage to shields? Pretty much every weapon that isn't a 1handed axe and has bonus damage to shield is unbalanced, yeah?
false. all polearm shieldbreakers are NOT UNBALANCED. only exception the great long bardiche.
I agree that the discrepancy between Morningstar and Bec de Corbin doesn't make much sense. OTOH, it does seem unfair that polearms have high-tier shieldbreakers that you can also duel with and 2h does not.
I would be in favour of removing unbalanced from the lower-tier shieldbreakers. I would say all, but by my own logic that would necessitate balanced GLB and such, which would be just ridicusilly.
I suppose the question is: would a balanced morning star be good enough to make all 2hers use it?
As it is, there are relatively few MS users and I seriously doubt that a balanced morningstar would be enough to tempt all the lolstabbers (myself included, to both my shame and glee) away.
well i will surely loom it if the unbalanced stat is removed.
removing crushthru (de facto deleting my old STR morningstar build) and compensating with low shield breaking bonus (axes and poleaxes have more shieldbreaking bonus) was not a fair deal.
but it's logically unbalanced because most of the weight is at the end of the weapon and is wielded at the grip (near the base).
taking how it's wielded have a similar reach of the bec de corbin but it lacks (obviously) the thrust and the ability to feint it. (obviously see above.)
a Mighty Morningstar with enough PS (say 7-8) can still 1hit kill all the STR+plate helm builds with a good head smash.
i would love to see it crushblocking again 8-)
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Just take a look at it... that's why it's unbalanced. :rolleyes:
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it has a giant steel ball on the end of it!!! but i can't see why polearm axes aren't unbalanced...
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it has a giant steel ball on the end of it!!! but i can't see why polearm axes aren't unbalanced...
because poleaxes and polearm axes are wield with a hand on the middle. giving it room to stop it at mid-air.
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because poleaxes and polearm axes are wield with a hand on the middle. giving it room to stop it at mid-air.
but the length fom the furthest hand on a GLA to the end of the weapon is just as long as the length of the furthest hand of a morningstar to the end of the weapon.
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but the length fom the furthest hand on a GLA to the end of the weapon is just as long as the length of the furthest hand of a morningstar to the end of the weapon.
but you wield it with the fulcrum on the right hand while the left put additional force and can stop the swing. try it with a broom :mrgreen:
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and yes... i hate OP polearms too heh.
uhm i tried my uncle's training chinese halberd used to train in kung fu and tai chi quan and i sometime go in my garden with a two handed greatsword (seems like a sword of war) of pure stainless 4mm thick steel blade.
well the chinese training halberd even with his 185cm is by far more comfortable. the greatsword i have is really really hard to stop mid-air.
but im not a 80kgs medieval all-muscle warrior :mrgreen:
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but you wield it with the fulcrum on the right hand while the left put additional force and can stop the swing. try it with a broom :mrgreen:
EDIT:
and yes... i hate OP polearms too heh.
though the force helps to stabalize it, it still has a leverage working on it when swung, so it helps, but really difficult to handle
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though the force helps to stabalize it, it still has a leverage working on it when swung, so it helps, but really difficult to handle
that's why those polearm axes "should" (on paper) be slower. because by how it's wield, you trade speed for stability. 2handed grips give more speed because the wrist do the leverage job near the fulcrum. but is also harder to control if the weapon have the center mass at the opposite. swords instead have most of the weight near the hilt. so those can be swung with no drawbacks by the wrist.
polearms instead are not really balanced. is the wield that helps it.
forgive my bad english.
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Mhh, bought a morning star on my 2h alt, it is a scary weapon as it is.
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that's why those polearm axes "should" (on paper) be slower. because by how it's wield, you trade speed for stability. 2handed grips give more speed because the wrist do the leverage job near the fulcrum. but is also harder to control if the weapon have the center mass at the opposite. swords instead have most of the weight near the hilt. so those can be swung with no drawbacks by the wrist.
polearms instead are not really balanced. is the wield that helps it.
forgive my bad english.
don't think your english is bad, it's fine if english isn't your first language, english isn't my first language either.
back on topic, so maybe they should get a unbalanced factor, but not the one we have right now, because that one is to much of a nerf for them.
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forgive my bad english.
Your English is fine.
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don't think your english is bad, it's fine if english isn't your first language, english isn't my first language either.
back on topic, so maybe they should get a unbalanced factor, but not the one we have right now, because that one is to much of a nerf for them.
because in the beginning, the morningstar had crushthru ability. and believe me, back in november 2010 the scary morningstar (morningstar +2 with 41 pierce) had greatmaul-like crushthru potential. (weapon 4.5kgs with 11 powerstrike and 200wpf, no steel shield +3 was able to stop it bypassing the block).
that was WAY too overpowered because with that weapon speed (93) was able to mantain block/hit/block sequence against all but katanas. and the 41 pierce with 11 powerstrike was a 1-2hit fest on plate tanks. (remember that pierce do x3 damage to the head instead x2 for cut and blunt... so by using only overhead swings, 1hit kills were more than often.)
the devs then removed crushthru ability (instead lowering it by lowering damage and weight) for the same reason they did later on barmace.
i know... polearms have the bec de corbin. it's a better "can-opener" than morningstar. polearms also have better shieldbreakers. but polearms lacks the best crushthru weapons (mallet and great maul... even the base maul is fine with 9PS) and the best dueling weapons.
a good thing we often forget, is that barmace and morningstar, by their heavy weight, often stuns the upper block on lighter weapons. so a good way to use them is to hold a overhead (to stun the block)and quickly release a right to left aided by waist turn.
i was thinking to retire a morningstar too someday. is really good with 24/15 or 27/12 builds.
Your English is fine.
well thanks. i just don't know how my english is. sometimes trolls troll my grammar.
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I agree that the discrepancy between Morningstar and Bec de Corbin doesn't make much sense. OTOH, it does seem unfair that polearms have high-tier shieldbreakers that you can also duel with and 2h does not.
On the other hand, a bec de corbin is almost twice as expensive as a morningstar.
i know... polearms have the bec de corbin. it's a better "can-opener" than morningstar. polearms also have better shieldbreakers. but polearms lacks the best crushthru weapons (mallet and great maul... even the base maul is fine with 9PS) and the best dueling weapons.
Both of the mentioned crushthrough weapons are of a very limited use in the battles. I'm not even saying that a long maul aka chupa-chups works much better, especially in pike fights because you can hold the line and not mix with the enemy.
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On the other hand, a bec de corbin is almost twice as expensive as a morningstar.
well i'll be glad to use a either balanced or crushthru morningstar even if it would costs like a flamberge 8-)
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the reason its unbalanced ? explain and ill allow it to be kept...
Just imagine yourself swinging that weapon,can you easily cancel your every single swing or not ?
Learn physics for fucks sake how old are you 6 ?
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Just imagine yourself swinging that weapon,can you easily cancel your every single swing or not ?
Learn physics for fucks sake how old are you 6 ?
With that logic the Danish Greatsword would have the same problem.
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you owned him there :lol:
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With that logic the Danish Greatsword would have the same problem.
Swords have far more balanced weight distrubution than axes,cleavers,mauls,maces therefore they are much easier to control while fighting.I really don't understand how can you compare a sword with an axe for this matter.
To swing axes,cleavers,mauls,maces or morningstars with control,you have to hold it closer to its metal part like polearm animation. If you direct your force closer to an objects center of mass , you can control it better.That's why poleaxes are balanced to use and that's also reason of their reach loss.Check Long Voulge you'll see that character is holding it closer to end of the stick compared to other polearms which makes this weapon unbalanced but also very very damn long.
If you hold a Great Long Axe with 2h animation, it'll be unbalanced.If it's possible adding an implement which gives feature to switch between 2h or polearm animation on battlefield for polearms and 2handers would be great.
If a horse charging me with lance,why would i hold my poleaxe from the middle of the stick , i don't need a balanced swing at that moment,i would hold it from the end of the stick (Like 2h animation)and stab the rider,same thing goes for 2handers,if you want balanced fight, you could switch to polearm animation and lose some reach while getting rid of "unbalanced".
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It is already a very powerful and versatile weapon. Getting rid of the unbalanced thing would be too much and we would see fucking shitloads of people using it. This comes from someone who uses a morningstar.
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To fix Morningstar. Remove Unbalanced. Also add Crushthrough.
Increase difficulty to 15. Speed should be raised to 95. Weapon length should be raised to to 86.
This is the best way to fix the currently crappy Morningstar.
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86 is faaaaaaar too short. 115 or no deal. Also, give it crushthrough, when used with shield.
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Also dont forget the ability to hit 3 guys with a single swing.