fix morning star?

[tankmen]

the reason its unbalanced ? explain and ill allow it to be kept...

[Paul]

Just because.

[tankmen]

that's a lazy excuse....

[Vibe]

High damage 2h pierce?

[Malaclypse]

Doesn't it have bonus damage to shields? Pretty much every weapon that isn't a 1handed axe and has bonus damage to shield is unbalanced, yeah?

[tankmen]

o ya forgot about that it just  feels more like a great maul swing wise than a great axe...

[Vivek]

Morning star is unbalanced, because its 2h light-lolhammer with piercing damage bonused to shields. It can knockdown and sometimes even crushtrough. That's the reason.

[Kafein]

Morning star is unbalanced, because its 2h light-lolhammer with piercing damage bonused to shields. It can knockdown and sometimes even crushtrough. That's the reason.

Hmm, yeah right. Morningstar lost the ability to crushthrough like... 3 months ago or something ? And as a pierce weapon, it could never knockdown.

[Peasant_Woman]

Because the morningstar is the only weapon I can think of that can allows a full strength build to oneshot anything outside of the heavy horses.

High pierce, decent speed (enough that you will never be outspammed), a little short (main balancing factor here), completely wrecks shields in no time at all, unbalanced so don't try a lot of feinting - all this adds up to a great weapon for a full strength build to go oneshotting, in my opinion. It also makes a pretty satisfying sound when you hit someone with it.

[Kaelaen]

You don't even need a strength build to one-shot everything with it. My build is 21/15, yet I can stand on a bridge with a little bit of armor on and swing away killing everything that came.  No blocking needed, because everyone died in the first hit.  This included someone who had at least 19 strength (last I checked) wearing an armlet, vaegir elite armor, etc, basically someone wearing semi-heavy armor with okay hit points. 

Morning star is easy mode.

[_JoG_]

Because the morningstar is the only weapon I can think of that can allows a full strength build to oneshot anything outside of the heavy horses.

Bec de corbin, anyone?

You don't even need a strength build to one-shot everything with it. My build is 21/15, yet I can stand on a bridge with a little bit of armor on and swing away killing everything that came.  No blocking needed, because everyone died in the first hit.  This included someone who had at least 19 strength (last I checked) wearing an armlet, vaegir elite armor, etc, basically someone wearing semi-heavy armor with okay hit points. 

2 good solid hits for the guys in ~30-35 body armor, 4+ hits for the guys in corrazina and higher. I have the same build.

[Quallen]

well I actually kinda like that the morningstar is unique (shield breaking pierce) and balance wise its stats make sense. That said I think 2h does need a new specialized can opener or to have one of its blunt weapons made balanced to properly fill the role.

Doesn't it have bonus damage to shields? Pretty much every weapon that isn't a 1handed axe and has bonus damage to shield is unbalanced, yeah?

Yes, 2h shield breakers are unbalanced.  Polearms on the other hand has many shield breakers that are balanced. If you compare the 2h great axe to the polearm long axe they cost about the same, have roughly equivalent range (the long axe has more range right to left 113 vs 109, the great axe has more overhead 111 vs 100 and more left to right 113 vs 108) and the only thing the great axe has to show for its unbalanced tag is +1 speed and +1 cut damage. Obviously class balance isn't done around mid tier weapons but the fact that polearms have balanced shield breakers still is important. I'm not saying both weapon classes should be equivalent in that respect but at least give both of them balanced can openers.

[Glyph]

Hmm, yeah right. Morningstar lost the ability to crushthrough like... 3 months ago or something ? And as a pierce weapon, it could never knockdown.

long spiked mace has pierce damage and knockdown

[Camaris]

well I actually kinda like that the morningstar is unique (shield breaking pierce) and balance wise its stats make sense. That said I think 2h does need a new specialized can opener or to have one of its blunt weapons made balanced to properly fill the role.

Morningstar is fine. And its correct 2h lack some balanced blunt weapon without any other bonis.

[Shpongled]

I agree that the discrepancy between Morningstar and Bec de Corbin doesn't make much sense. OTOH, it does seem unfair that polearms have high-tier shieldbreakers that you can also duel with and 2h does not.

I would be in favour of removing unbalanced from the lower-tier shieldbreakers. I would say all, but by my own logic that would necessitate balanced GLB and such, which would be just ridicusilly.

I suppose the question is: would a balanced morning star be good enough to make all 2hers use it?

As it is, there are relatively few MS users and I seriously doubt that a balanced morningstar would be enough to tempt all the lolstabbers (myself included, to both my shame and glee) away.