cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Huey Newton on January 17, 2011, 02:51:14 am

Title: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Huey Newton on January 17, 2011, 02:51:14 am
ill get str8 to the point
horses cost a shitload more than they used too
i cant use my horse every round even though ive put 7 riding into it
my courser costs almost 1200 to repair
ive lost about 66,000 gold in the past 3 days from using my horse

all the shit about cav being OP is crap theres valid counterarguments to every arguement for that statement
explain how cav are op
im not talking about plated chargers
i mean light cav

how?
archers can shoot them down with ease.
pikes can wreck horses now that theres no Lance of compensation
hell they've even added 2 new anti-cav weapons (Swiss halberd and english bill)
why make it so i cant use my pony every round when ive spent time grinding to purchase it an the skills needed for it

Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Bill The Butcher on January 17, 2011, 02:56:15 am
It sucks, the best thing I've found is to get a Rouncy and retire it. You need to be at about 22k to make money. I can ride a heavy rouncy,nomad robe and morning star and do OK.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Elmetiacos on January 17, 2011, 02:59:12 am
ill get str8 to the point
I read this as, "I'll get strength eight to the point"
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Whalen207 on January 17, 2011, 02:59:32 am
As a Medium Calvary (Courser/Transitional) I approve of this topic.
We need more monies n' shit.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Seawied on January 17, 2011, 03:00:32 am
First off, there was no room to deny the overpoweredness of heavy cavalry before. There was no room to dispute that a terrible player with heavy cavalry could suddenly rack up more kills than the best of players could on foot. How do we know this? Because it happened.

Secondly, I agree with you. Cavalry SHOULD be made a viable option again. Instead, we have the cavalry, who are just as overpowered as before, are suddenly only usable on rare occasions.

Cavalry has a role to fill in Warband and C-RPG. Without cavalry, tactics, weapon choices, and strategy is very different and more limited.

Cavalry should be balanced so that players are able to utilize the tools that horses bring to the game, without entering the domain of ungodlyness that they used to be in.

Balance the stats of horses, reduce the cost of horses so that they are expensive and force players to compromise on some gear choices, but still allow for horse builds to be viable once more.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 17, 2011, 03:01:46 am
I vouch for light calv being viable to use on a regular basis. Light calv is not OP at all.
(But if you want to ride light calv & have heavy armor you can GTFO)


p.s. I do not ride calv.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Toldfield on January 17, 2011, 03:03:54 am
all the shit about cav being OP is crap theres valid counterarguments to every arguement for that statement
explain how cav are op
im not talking about plated chargers
i mean light cav
No, I did not know that about you! But I guess I should have known you like fire, with you being a dragon and all.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Keshian on January 17, 2011, 03:07:21 am
If chadz is worried about game balance then he should change the horses stats even lower, but to try to get there by making them prohibitively expensive is the wrong way to get balance.  Light cavalry should be 5-10% of the people on a server at any given time, but right now completely absent on most servers for hours at atime.  At the very least make a reasonably priced alternative like reducing rouncey's stats slightly and making it only 5000 gold, dont understand why all the light cav horses were increased in price with last patch, just need to reduce horse stats or make riding skill 1 every 5 or 6 agility.  I miss having cav to shoot.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Michael on January 17, 2011, 03:17:56 am
Ah, I think its fine.

We cav are simply the better players, the handicapped footmen need all help the devs can offer to have some sort of a chance against us.


The Palfrey or what is name is is not that bad. I am doing (almost) same as with Courser or Sarranid.

My beloved elephant is gone, forever, but meh, I have just bought Mameluke horse well I have to test it later the day otherwise I am okay with Palfrey. 




Quote
First off, there was no room to deny the overpoweredness of heavy cavalry before. There was no room to dispute that a terrible player with heavy cavalry could suddenly rack up more kills than the best of players could on foot. How do we know this? Because it happened.

lawl noob I have plenty of screens where my footman wears no armor (only Leather Jacket and Woolen Hose), using pike and long voulge and I have a k d of 10 and most of these screens I was low level (17, 19 perhaps).

Same with my alt who is also low level I use only a sword (Nodachi, longsword, katana, miadao etc.), no armor.


I pwn you sucker with the wooden stick if I must to make you clueless idiots finally shut up.

Seriously, what can you do wrong with blocking down??????????????????????????

The only chance cavalry has to kill my footmen is when
its the end of the round and I get gangbanged but then I die anyway.

When you are too dumb to be aware, look around, get isolated from your team, then you deserve to die, because you are shit. Thats the truth.

You have no skill, live with it, its only a fucking videogame, nothing important, but stop crying about a class you can take out of the game with simply blocking down and some footwork. Lamer.





Same for Kesh, start to play a class that needs some skill before you waste our time with your ignorant posts.

Its actually commen sense to talk only about things you have some experience with.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Toldfield on January 17, 2011, 03:24:08 am
You have no skill, live with it, its only a fucking videogame, nothing important, but stop crying about a class you can take out of the game with simply blocking down and some footwork. Lamer.

Its actually commen sense to talk only about things you have some experience with.
No, because I am a Walmart Ninja.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Seawied on January 17, 2011, 03:31:34 am
lawl noob I have plenty of screens where my footman wears no armor (only Leather Jacket and Woolen Hose), using pike and long voulge and I have a k d of 10 and most of these screens I was low level (17, 19 perhaps).

Same with my alt who is also low level I use only a sword (Nodachi, longsword, katana, miadao etc.), no armor.



Same for Kesh, start to play a class that needs some skill before you waste our time with your ignorant posts.

Its actually commen sense to talk only about things you have some experience with.

Remember when I said terrible players topping the scoreboard because of their OP horses? Meet terrible player!

Finn, I'd just like to let you know, the epic proportions of your awfulness is not bound by the atlantic ocean and tales of how terrible a player you really are well known even in America. That has GOT to tell you something  :lol:
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Keshian on January 17, 2011, 03:41:10 am
Ah, I think its fine.

We cav are simply the better players, the handicapped footmen need all help the devs can offer to have some sort of a chance against us.


The Palfrey or what is name is is not that bad. I am doing (almost) same as with Courser or Sarranid.

My beloved elephant is gone, forever, but meh, I have just bought Mameluke horse well I have to test it later the day otherwise I am okay with Palfrey. 




lawl noob I have plenty of screens where my footman wears no armor (only Leather Jacket and Woolen Hose), using pike and long voulge and I have a k d of 10 and most of these screens I was low level (17, 19 perhaps).

Same with my alt who is also low level I use only a sword (Nodachi, longsword, katana, miadao etc.), no armor.


I pwn you sucker with the wooden stick if I must to make you clueless idiots finally shut up.

Seriously, what can you do wrong with blocking down??????????????????????????

The only chance cavalry has to kill my footmen is when
its the end of the round and I get gangbanged but then I die anyway.

When you are too dumb to be aware, look around, get isolated from your team, then you deserve to die, because you are shit. Thats the truth.

You have no skill, live with it, its only a fucking videogame, nothing important, but stop crying about a class you can take out of the game with simply blocking down and some footwork. Lamer.





Same for Kesh, start to play a class that needs some skill before you waste our time with your ignorant posts.

Its actually commen sense to talk only about things you have some experience with.

Wow, I knew this guy was a complete idiot, but i never realized before just how undeservedly arrogant he is too.  If you must know I have played cav quite a bit with my alt, and yes it is way too expensive.  Do you really expect people to think youa re a good player simply because you brag about how many people you kill.  All I have seen you ever do is maybe trample people a bit with an elephant but then die really quickly once dehorsed.  Huey is actually a great cavalry fighter and uses light cav to get his kills and his argument is extremely reasonable, just because you know how to trample doesnt make youa  cavalry expert Michael, Finn, whatever..
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Seawied on January 17, 2011, 04:00:28 am
Ya, I'm with you Kesh.

I can honestly say that he's gotta be the biggest douchebag on the forums. And on top of it all, he's absolutely terrible too which just makes his stupidty down-right hilarious. If you're gonna be cocky, you have to have at least an OUNCE of skill to back it up.

By the way, I love the comment where he calls us "no-life lamers" despite the fact that for every hour I've logged onto c-rpg, he's logged 10 grinding his way to his elephant and retiring. The irony knows no end.  :lol:
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Knute on January 17, 2011, 04:01:11 am
Desert Horse :
Price 13440 now 18440
Horse speed 42 now 40
Horse maneuver 50 now 48

Courser :
Price 17380 now 22380
Horse speed 50 now 48
Horse maneuver 44 now 42

I was ok with the stat drop but the 5k price bump was just a few thousand too much.

Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: TomMyyY on January 17, 2011, 04:28:02 am
Ye I really think the prices could be lowered quite a bit, the armored horses can stay expensive (even though they aren't that usefull after the charge nerf), but we should atleast have the option to ride on a light horse without having to strip down naked and use a spear as weapon.

The repair costs of the courser/sarranid are just insane and for me the main reason not to heirloom them. I would love a champion sarranid, but that would probably set me back 2k on every repair.. not quite worth it.

Also, isn't it very weird the palfrey is the cheapest horse now? Even the terrible sumpter is more expensive, which kind of forces us cavalry to use a palfrey for price/effectiveness.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Huey Newton on January 17, 2011, 04:56:52 am
.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: StanleyPain on January 17, 2011, 05:31:08 am
Seems that CAV is fine. I see 8-10+ per team at any given time. I think the entire point was to reduce the amount of cav seen on the battle field and to reduce how often you can use it.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Kalam on January 17, 2011, 05:40:29 am
Light cavalry should be viable every round with light armour. I have yet to roll a cavalry character post-patch and test it, but if it's not, well, it should be.

As for Finn/Michael...EU has to put up with him but we've got Thulsa Doom. Speaking of which, I haven't really seen that douche around...
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Seawied on January 17, 2011, 05:55:11 am
Light cavalry should be viable every round with light armour. I have yet to roll a cavalry character post-patch and test it, but if it's not, well, it should be.

The current cost of the horse is pretty damning, and god forbid if your team hits a losing streak and your horse gets damaged repeatedly. Horsemen put all their eggs in one basket, putting them more at risk than any other class.

If my tempered bec gets damage (most expensive item I use on my main consistently) I might be out a couple hundred gold, but if your Sarranid horse gets damaged, you're out over a grand.  A streak of bad luck can easily bankrupt a player.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Warcat on January 17, 2011, 06:15:57 am
I use a Palfrey every round with medium armor and have been making more money than ever since the patch, but coursers are quite a bit more expensive. Still, I haven't personally had any problems yet. Although the new bow speed was a bit of a shock to me, I'm adjusted to it now.

Edit: Why do sumpters now cost more than Palfrey's? Sumpters still suck horribly, but cost 8000
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Christo on January 17, 2011, 06:38:17 am
Edit: Why do sumpters now cost more than Palfrey's? Sumpters still suck horribly, but cost 8000

I have an idea why.
So that low riding builds who only pick sumpter-level for the "lulz" will have to pay more for upkeep, and they either invest more into riding, or drop riding completely.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Huey Newton on January 17, 2011, 07:07:55 am
they forgot to raise the price of the palfrey
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: HeroZero on January 17, 2011, 07:21:52 am
Oh man! Why can't I ride my horse around and totally decimate everyone? You just need to budget.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: bruce on January 17, 2011, 08:32:52 am
A rouncey is affordable.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: ViiKOLD on January 17, 2011, 09:42:52 am
Rouncey and Palfey is quite affordable, lowering prices for Saranid\Courser\Destrier would be nice but people still use them, cataphracts or warhorses are hardly seen and its good.
I didn't liked last changes to horses characteristics, nerfing them together with making higher price was unreasonable, imho.

Anyway, this is how I keep upkeep under control. Your gear and mount should be proportional to multiplayer:
x1 rouncey, light armor, morningstar
x2 rouncey, light armor, morningstar and some additional weapon with longer reach for melee
x3 destrier and the same from x2
x4 and x5 destrier and medium armor + three different weapons

This way it works quite well, you raise money slowly but you always get xp and help your team to raise or hold multiplier.

I will be dropping cavalry because of recent changes. I have 2h\cav char, it's rather weak against other cavalry but good against infantry and just fun to play, but with current expenses, fragility of horses and dominance of lance cavalry its not enjoyable anymore. Its sad that diversity get destroyed because of the balancing.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: bruce on January 17, 2011, 09:55:48 am
Well, with a heavy lance, a rouncey, warspear, and light (cloth) armour and a weak shield, it's quite upkeepable. If I put on mail + helm + gauntlets + boots, then not so upkeep-friendly.

I roll as infantryman on town maps with cloth armour and a warspear, that fills up the wallet.

Bumpslashers must be hurting though, since people generally are more watchful for cavalrymen and we see more polearms these days, and the horses which you can upkeep are quite fragile beasts. HAs probably, too, but I feel no pity for them (and they are the most effective way to dismount other horsemen, anyway). But it is nice, on the other hand, to see only a handful of horsemen on a map instead of 20 horses on every side.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Malevolent_Warlord on January 17, 2011, 10:51:00 am
U have to realise that u can't do jack-of-all-trades anymore. Do u really think its balanced that u ride a warhorse and wear plate armor? It takes forever to down u and after that it takes time to smash u down. U have to balance out ur equipment to ur needs.

I can ride cataphract in lamellar vest and low gear no problem. I tried riding destrier in mameluke armor and good equipment... it was a no no. U don't need heavy armor if u ride a warhorse, u just need to avoid getting hit.

Stay alive, tune ur skills and stop taking unnessesary risks. Skills play 10x more role than before the patch.

I get killed in heavy armor so fast now and I can't even upkeep it.... but if they can't hit me its another thing entirely. Personal skills are the true shit now. Staying alive is much more valuable than 30k worth of armor which don't help u very much.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Rogue_Eagle on January 17, 2011, 11:08:14 am
imo they should make it, if your horse dies you pay upkeep, otherwise you don't.

gives some incentive to get plated charger etc.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Native_ATS on January 17, 2011, 11:09:38 am
archers can shoot them down with ease.
     (Yup almost everything dies from being shot with arrows)
pikes can wreck horses now that theres no Lance of compensation
     (Good because LOC was way OP)
hell they've even added 2 new anti-cav weapons (Swiss halberd and english bill)
     (the more weapons the better)
why make it so i cant use my pony every round when ive spent time grinding to purchase it an the skills needed for it
     (Yah why cant i just pound my mouse and win every game!, i mean i spent the cash on it, i should one shot people every time right lol)
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: tony on January 17, 2011, 11:10:21 am
I do alright as cav
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Moscher on January 17, 2011, 11:24:20 am

lawl noob I have plenty of screens where my footman wears no armor (only Leather Jacket and Woolen Hose), using pike and long voulge and I have a k d of 10 and most of these screens I was low level (17, 19 perhaps).

Same with my alt who is also low level I use only a sword (Nodachi, longsword, katana, miadao etc.), no armor.

With this shit unplayable Patch, now we get such arrogant Kiddy Game Admins?

This mod get more and more for the dogs.

Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Thomek on January 17, 2011, 12:22:05 pm
Jeez stop whining and learn to play.

Oberyn just wrecked apart my team 4 times with 40 kills after 4-5 rounds. Closest one on either team had 24 kills.

That was on a steppe horse, but probably with a heirloomed lance though. The map was not perfect for cav or anything. It was the classic desert map with a hill and an oasis.

He's a good player, and it should take a good player to rank on top above everyone else.

I guess his build is without compromise though. I bet he has much more riding than necessary for a steppe horse, (for speed and maneuverability bonus) I bet he has just enough PS to 1-shot the average player at the average speed + thrust with his heirloomed lance. I bet he has just enough shield skill to not be hit by all arrows, perhaps even covering part of the horse. He probably has very low or 0 athletics and IF, and no secondary skills from Polearms. 

In the build thread I say way too many players trying to do many things good, but end up doing nothing good. 
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Riddaren on January 17, 2011, 12:24:09 pm
How can cavalry not be a viable option when cavalry players are the ones with the highest k:d ratio?

Just like unarmoured humans are vulnerable unarmoured horses are too. You just need to avoid the ranged fire and stay away from pikes and spears.

I also disagree that horses are too expensive. I still make money with a total equipment value of 50k-60k.

/ Just retired. Guess what I herloomed... :)
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Bjord on January 17, 2011, 12:34:06 pm
Oberyn is without doubt one of the best cav in cRPG.

Like Thomek said, it's only natural if a good player is dominating the scoreboard. It's even more interesting when many players of equal high level skill is on different teams. Sort of like a wildcard v wildcard situation.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Punisher on January 17, 2011, 12:44:15 pm
Cav is fine as it is, it's normal to be a lot more expensive to play cav than infantry, after all cavalry are supposed to be elite troops, not everyone should have a horse. The change brought by the upkeep system is that noob cav can't own anymore because they don't afford to upkeep their heavy horses. Cav is still very strong, just look at players like DimaUrban or Oberyn, they always get crazy 10:1 k/d and they use light horses and medium armor.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Stabby_Dave on January 17, 2011, 01:12:27 pm
Cav is fine as it is, it's normal to be a lot more expensive to play cav than infantry, after all cavalry are supposed to be elite troops, not everyone should have a horse. The change brought by the upkeep system is that noob cav can't own anymore because they don't afford to upkeep their heavy horses. Cav is still very strong, just look at players like DimaUrban or Oberyn, they always get crazy 10:1 k/d and they use light horses and medium armor.

True but both those players would get massive K:d's without the horse too.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Camaris on January 17, 2011, 01:13:34 pm
In my opinion CAVs should have 1-3 horses they can take to earn good money.

Palfrey and Sumpter could easily be reduced to 4k and 6k
The other horses with no armor should be placed between 10-20k exception is destrier which should be at 25k.

Those fine little ponys are atm really balanced.
Im happy with the fact that armored are mostly gone.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: FICO on January 17, 2011, 02:29:58 pm
We need more monies n' shit.
earn it
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Tai Feng on January 17, 2011, 03:17:24 pm
Cavalry is not underpowered.

1. There are enough horses on the battlefield.
2. Cavalry can make kills in the most easiest way.
3. Cavalry usually tops the charts.


All this is an indication that cavalry as a class is certainly not underpowered.

The only arguably underpowered thing are heavy horses, but some say they are fine so I'm not going to go into it.



This is all coming from an infantry player who simply has 5 points in Riding. I don't even have pure "cavalry build".


Lastly, complaints about cost are not justified. A *naked* rider with a Courser and Heavy Lance can pretty much keep up with the upkeep (correct me if I'm wrong) - and with that equipment alone end up #1 in kills.

Now try going crossbow and see how often you do the same. :)
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 04:43:33 pm
Light cavalry should be viable every round with light armour. I have yet to roll a cavalry character post-patch and test it, but if it's not, well, it should be.

Kalam! It should be... but right now, wearing only a white tunic with mail, mail chausses, no helmet, no gloves, heavy lance, Steel Pick backup, and heirloomed Norman shield - I cannot make money on a Sarranid. I can play about 5 rounds before I'm down several thousand gold and have to go Pilgrim Robe peasant again...

Huey, I'm glad you made a thread, man. I've been feeling the same way.
- Horse Charge was OP and needed a nerf.
- Armored Cav was OP (because of Horse Charge + armor) and needed a nerf.
- Light Cav was never a problem. Look at one angrily and it will drop dead. Working as intended.
- The cost of Light Cav needs to be lowered.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: StanleyPain on January 17, 2011, 04:50:00 pm
Kalam! It should be... but right now, wearing only a white tunic with mail, mail chausses, no helmet, no gloves, heavy lance, Steel Pick backup, and heirloomed Norman shield - I cannot make money on a Sarranid. I can play about 5 rounds before I'm down several thousand gold and have to go Pilgrim Robe peasant again...

Huey, I'm glad you made a thread, man. I've been feeling the same way.
- Horse Charge was OP and needed a nerf.
- Armored Cav was OP (because of Horse Charge + armor) and needed a nerf.
- Light Cav was never a problem. Look at one angrily and it will drop dead. Working as intended.
- The cost of Light Cav needs to be lowered.

Then why do you still see 10+ cav/team every single round over and over and over again?
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 04:58:37 pm
I don't. I played a lot this weekend, and don't think I ever saw more than 5 other cav on my team.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Tai Feng on January 17, 2011, 05:06:04 pm
Kalam! It should be... but right now, wearing only a white tunic with mail, mail chausses, no helmet, no gloves, heavy lance, Steel Pick backup, and heirloomed Norman shield - I cannot make money on a Sarranid.

So basically your complaint is that you're having everything an infantryman does, AND you still want a horse on top of that... but can't have it all the time? That's the entire point of upkeep system.

Try just Courser+Heavy Lance, in peasant outfit and not secondary weapon except maybe fork or something equally cheap.

Quote
I don't. I played a lot this weekend, and don't think I ever saw more than 5 other cav on my team.

On what server are you playing? I would like to come and watch.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Lt_Anders on January 17, 2011, 05:20:02 pm
Kalam! It should be... but right now, wearing only a white tunic with mail, mail chausses, no helmet, no gloves, heavy lance, Steel Pick backup, and heirloomed Norman shield - I cannot make money on a Sarranid. I can play about 5 rounds before I'm down several thousand gold and have to go Pilgrim Robe peasant again...

Huey, I'm glad you made a thread, man. I've been feeling the same way.
- Horse Charge was OP and needed a nerf.
- Armored Cav was OP (because of Horse Charge + armor) and needed a nerf.
- Light Cav was never a problem. Look at one angrily and it will drop dead. Working as intended.
- The cost of Light Cav needs to be lowered.

(click to show/hide)

As you can see, my character is a super hybrid :) I ride horses.( Palfry, and Rouncy). I use Heraldic mail, Red wisby, Mail Chausus, and kettle helm. I always have a great axe equiped. When I ride horsey, I equip my light xbow, and my lance. Cost: 32k More than effecient enough to make even on X1/X2 games and effective enough to make money at higher multipliers.

With the High(er) agility and a tad smidgen in polearms, i can lance effeciently on horseback(and even use polearms on foot fairly well). I can also be fairly accurate with my xbow while riding even when i have no HA, due to wpf and my own understanding of how xbows fire when "wide reticuled".

Problem: I get cockey or stop paying attention, I'm usually dead once that happens. My success as this horse xbow is entirely dependent on map and teams.
Therefore: Cavalry, if built right, and played right will always be effective.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 05:20:16 pm
I played on NA all weekend, either on the 80 or 100. More than 5 or 6 cav per team was rare, if it happened at all.

Oh please. The average footman wears better armor than tunic over chain, and they also wear gloves and shoes. Come on man, you know you're overreaching by suggesting we all ride Light Cav essentially naked.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 05:22:03 pm
Therefore: Cavalry, if built right, and played right will always be effective.

Absolutely! But only a Palfrey or Rouncey is financially viable. The upkeep cost of any other unarmored horse is prohibitive.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Lamix on January 17, 2011, 05:34:39 pm
Should think about making the sumpter really cheap, then you could use that as a way to make money while still using the skills you invested in or a new player could use it to learn how to handle cav.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: PhantomZero on January 17, 2011, 05:35:51 pm
Should think about making the sumpter really cheap, then you could use that as a way to make money while still using the skills you invested in or a new player could use it to learn how to handle cav.

I think the sumpter would give you bad habits, it is a really bad horse.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Welcome_To_Hell on January 17, 2011, 05:36:22 pm
If chadz is worried about game balance then he should change the horses stats even lower, but to try to get there by making them prohibitively expensive is the wrong way to get balance.  Light cavalry should be 5-10% of the people on a server at any given time, but right now completely absent on most servers for hours at atime.  At the very least make a reasonably priced alternative like reducing rouncey's stats slightly and making it only 5000 gold, dont understand why all the light cav horses were increased in price with last patch, just need to reduce horse stats or make riding skill 1 every 5 or 6 agility.  I miss having cav to shoot.

Stats even lower?

They are already one shot by about everything. How can we get even lower than that? One shot all light cav with a throwing rock?
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Tai Feng on January 17, 2011, 06:30:07 pm
Come on man, you know you're overreaching by suggesting we all ride Light Cav essentially naked.

That's exactly what you should do if you have problems economizing. It works.


This entire thread is about "I want good horse, decent armor, best cavalry weapons, and I want it every round". This thread isn't about balance at all. It's about people who want to be overpowered constantly and feel it's their human and natural right.


You can play as cavalry every round. There are other cavalry weapons besides Heavy Lance. You can poke people with cheap spears too, like a fork, believe it or not. There are horses that are cheap. There's cheap armor. Now you just have to optimize and select best option based on upkeep limit. If sustainable limit is 20,000 gold, you pick equipment for that. If it's 40,000 you pick for that.


This thread is ridiculous because some of you refuse to see. You close your eyes and shout that it's dark. You refuse to acknowledge that cavalry can be successfully played without top gear. Well I'm sorry, the days when every grinder could charger in in his plated charger, raise hands and sing a song, and enemies would fall down trampled and die massively - these days are thankfully over.

Quote from: PhantomZero
I think the sumpter would give you bad habits, it is a really bad horse.

It's still a horse, which can be huge advantage if you use it right.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 06:36:32 pm
Wow, you can't read.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Tai Feng on January 17, 2011, 06:46:45 pm
:)

What you just did is a cheap rhetoric trick of abandoning the discussion once arguments overwhelm you. You can demonize your opponent all you want, like, call him a troll or something, which means you can dodge his argument and feel victorious and at peace. It works every time.



Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 07:18:15 pm
It was an appropriate response to your long straw man argument.

Who said they wanted their Grade A gear AND the horses each round? I didn't. Huey didn't. Hell, I even said that with only a white tunic over mail and a melee weapon in case of dishorsing, I'm losing money fast.

We understand the concept of low-upkeep gear.

We're saying the cost of unarmored horse upkeep is too high. Simple enough?
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: bruce on January 17, 2011, 07:51:37 pm
With a rouncey, balanced heavy lance, aketon/padded jack, leather accessories, a cheap shield and a warspear for foot combat I'm making money on my horseman.

Tbh, it is quite well balanced atm. I hated it when every third person was on a horse.

Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Rumblood on January 17, 2011, 08:16:38 pm
I see...lots of Cav, as many as before, and I see the occasional Panzer Tank horse even. So...wut?
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Punisher on January 17, 2011, 08:29:41 pm
I see...lots of Cav, as many as before, and I see the occasional Panzer Tank horse even. So...wut?

Agreed, there are at least 7-8 cav on each side every map, more if there is a cav-friendly map (and these days most maps are). How come these people can afford playing cav and don't come to cry on forum?
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Huey Newton on January 17, 2011, 09:21:41 pm
Agreed, there are at least 7-8 cav on each side every map, more if there is a cav-friendly map (and these days most maps are). How come these people can afford playing cav and don't come to cry on forum?

people who own fiefs in strat dont have to pay as much upkeep as those who dont


i use a
courser
leather boots
leather gloves
bascinet
brigandine
nordic short war sword
heavy lance
knightly heater shield

ive brought my foot armor down from shynbaulds to leather boots for financial reasons
ive dropped my red wisby gauntlets for leather gloves for financial reasons
i will NOT drop my brigandine as it is mathematically the best value in weight per armor ratio for medium armor
sometimes i budget my bascinet out for a kettle helmet
everything else i use is a must

im a cavalry player
if you've ever seen me play
you see i go for enemy cav first
then enemy archers
then enemy infantry

why should people like engine and I not be allowed to use a highier tier horse and at least come out even in our budget

22000 for a courser?
1100 to repair
cmon now be realistic
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Braeden on January 17, 2011, 09:30:47 pm
Quote
people who own fiefs in strat dont have to pay as much upkeep as those who dont

Planned.

Not implemented yet.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 09:36:18 pm
Would it help if instead I said "I'm pure infantry and I think unarmored horse upkeep is too high"

If you don't trust Huey, who's one of the most respectable and talented Light Cav players, who will you trust?
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Lt_Anders on January 17, 2011, 09:38:12 pm
(click to show/hide)
Brigadine....

Well there's your problem. 10k armor. Why not use the heraldic mails? I use Hmail with surcoat(which is nearly 4k less than brig, has 7 less body armor, but 2 more leg armor) Red wisby, mail chauses, kettle helm. I use a lance, great axe and light xbow(+steel bolts) and ride a rouncey.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Our difference in cost comes from our horse. I lose a little money at x1 with that outfit. If I dropped the xbow(7k in cost) I'd never lose money with my build. Also granted, I'm more of a mounted infantry(mounted xbow) more than cavalry, but I still bring my best equipment out.(I don't like plate, prefer mail, but I have plate if i wanted :P)

Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: StanleyPain on January 17, 2011, 09:42:29 pm
It was an appropriate response to your long straw man argument.

Who said they wanted their Grade A gear AND the horses each round? I didn't. Huey didn't. Hell, I even said that with only a white tunic over mail and a melee weapon in case of dishorsing, I'm losing money fast.

We understand the concept of low-upkeep gear.

We're saying the cost of unarmored horse upkeep is too high. Simple enough?


What everyone seems to be telling you is that your concept of "low gear" is not what others consider "low gear". People have given you hard numbers proving you wrong. You're wrong plain and simple and yet all you do is put your fingers in your ears and sing "lalalalalalalal im not listening"
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Kalam on January 17, 2011, 09:44:13 pm
Actually, I'd suggest a straight-up gambeson. With my shielder, for instance, I don't notice much of a difference between the brigandine and gambeson for survivability unless it's siege or I'm going to have to hold a position for a long time due to teamplay.

That said, he'd still be incurring losses without the brigandine, unless he gets more wins. Which he does, which should put him in the positive.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 09:50:28 pm
You're wrong plain and simple and yet all you do is put your fingers in your ears and sing "lalalalalalalal im not listening"
Their numbers don't match what I'm seeing ingame. I'm calling it like it is for me, not trying to tell other players they're wrong.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: StanleyPain on January 17, 2011, 09:51:32 pm
Their numbers don't match what I'm seeing ingame. I'm calling it like it is for me, not trying to tell other players they're wrong.

Because you're using mid to mid-high range gear which is gonna cost you to use ALL THE TIME. That's the entire point. :)
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Tai Feng on January 17, 2011, 09:56:01 pm
We're saying the cost of unarmored horse upkeep is too high. Simple enough?

Too high for whom?
I can afford the cost. Others can. If you can't, you're buying wrong equipment, as simple as that. You refuse to accept this simple logical statement - well, your loss. As a matter of fact, due to my playstyles (which you can also call good planning and schedule) I also play very often with a Charger just for fun, since I prefer Courser.

 I told you to take Courser, naked (not even shield), with Heavy Lance and a fork. You could've at least tried and said it's not working.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 09:57:40 pm
Alright, if you think numbers will change the fact that I'm losing money:

3468 - White Tunic over Mail
4798 - Heavy Lance
6889 - Steel Pick
3226 - Norman Shield
25480 - Sarranid Horse

43,861g

Without the horse, do you think that's high end gear?
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: StanleyPain on January 17, 2011, 09:59:17 pm
Yes, 43k worth of gear is mid-high without a doubt.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 09:59:33 pm
I told you to take Courser, naked (not even shield), with Heavy Lance and a fork. You could've at least tried and said it's not working.

This is your solution? Play naked?

Wow.

Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Engine on January 17, 2011, 10:00:37 pm
Yes, 43k worth of gear is mid-high without a doubt.

How about 18,381, after the horse is removed? That's what you're calling high-end gear? Again... wow.

Ok, done here. Thanks for the input!

Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: RandomDude on January 17, 2011, 10:01:58 pm
i think people should be able to afford to play as light cav

i was gonna add that then everyone might play cav but i dont think they would

i hate getting couched and bumped and 1 hit even in heavy armour as much as the next guy but cav should still have some role in warband

light cav to me is pretty much the cheapest few horses some light armour a shield a lance and maybe a cheap back up weapon

costs should be on par with a 2h in good armour or a 1h in slightly worse armour (if they want a nice shield)

forgive me but i think most of the bows should increase in cost significantly too - if their killing potential stays the same as it is now
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Seawied on January 17, 2011, 10:05:37 pm
Yes, 43k worth of gear is mid-high without a doubt.

This is a problem here. You're including the financial total as a basis for what is considered acceptable for total gear, where we are arguing that the reward-cost ratio of the mid tier horses are at a bad ratio.

Right now, we have 1 or 2 horses everywhere. Sarranid horse and below could use  a 10% reduction in price in my opinion because currently the advantage they give to the player is nowhere near the worth of the item.

I don't use a horse based character anymore because of their cost. Currently, my characters are all infantry. If this gets changed either way, it will not affect my characters at all. However, I feel that having cavalry have some affordability would add more depth to the game.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Maira on January 17, 2011, 10:16:10 pm
I'm a HA and I can barely upkeep my nomad set (828g) Steppe Horse (12k) Short Bow (1.7k) No melee weapon, no gloves. If they increases the bow cost, what am I going to use to shoot arrows? My fists?
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Tai Feng on January 17, 2011, 10:21:48 pm
This is your solution? Play naked?

Wow.

Sometimes the good in me gets carried away and for a second thinks that people sometimes, just sometimes, would be grateful for a good tip. Then harsh reality hits me in the head and I realize, nah, they just want to whine and complain.

Quote from: Seawied
currently the advantage they give to the player is nowhere near the worth of the item.

Sarranid and Courser are worth the money. Heavy horses are currently not. Can't speak for others as I didn't try them post-patch.

Every player is limited by upkeep. A horseman that stretches up to the limit is more valuable than a 1H/shield footman that stretches up to the limit. A dismounted horseman is still a force to be reckoned with.

Quote
Right now, we have 1 or 2 horses everywhere

NA servers were never a good indication of anything game related, only mentality-related things.

Quote from: Maira
I'm a HA and I can barely upkeep my nomad set (828g) Steppe Horse (12k) Short Bow (1.7k) No melee weapon, no gloves. If they increases the bow cost, what am I going to use to shoot arrows? My fists?

My advice is: don't play HA then. Leave that to professionals.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: StanleyPain on January 17, 2011, 10:31:17 pm
How about 18,381, after the horse is removed? That's what you're calling high-end gear? Again... wow.

Ok, done here. Thanks for the input!

Your horse is part of your gear therefore it's factored into the equation. Lighten up your other gear.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: bruce on January 17, 2011, 10:36:12 pm
i think people should be able to afford to play as light cav

light cav to me is pretty much the cheapest few horses some light armour a shield a lance and maybe a cheap back up weapon

I agree. And I assure you, it's perfectly feasible as it is. I'm doing it on one of my chars - with the gear you described above (rouncey, plain kite shield, balanced heavy lance, warspear, leather doodads and padded jack), and it makes a some money on the side even - approx 10K of gear (heavy lance is roughly 5K) and a rouncey.

forgive me but i think most of the bows should increase in cost significantly too - if their killing potential stays the same as it is now

I agree also on this, for various reasons (HAs on coursers, etc).
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Gorath on January 17, 2011, 11:57:47 pm
Light cav being sustainable would be nice, sure.  But heavy cav should stay dead except for the once in a blue moon "fuck it" scenarios.  And Kesh, you should know by now to ignore everything that terribad Finished/Michael says.  Possibly one of the worst players, trolls and posters to ever taint the mod.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Chaos on January 18, 2011, 12:05:20 am
Light cav being sustainable would be nice, sure.  But heavy cav should stay dead except for the once in a blue moon "fuck it" scenarios.  And Kesh, you should know by now to ignore everything that terribad Finished/Michael says.  Possibly one of the worst players, trolls and posters to ever taint the mod.

Agreed. Any horse with armor on it should not be sustainable on the average budget. Unarmored horses should be reduced in cost imo since theyre already so easy to counter anyway, and arent even viable on every map. I can go naked (or my equivalent, which is to say total armor cost = around 400 gold buying price) and use a heavy lance and plain kite shield with war spear on courser, and sure enough i still won't be able to keep that up if I'm not lucky enough to be on the winning team. not to mention that im basically screwed if I draw the attention of 2+ enemy archers.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: bruce on January 18, 2011, 08:59:26 am
Light cav IS sustainable, and doesn't need a reduction in price. Horses such as the rouncey or steppe can be used on every map you want (although, really, on city maps you're better off on foot anyway)  and are a major advantage to have.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: B3RS3RK on January 18, 2011, 09:20:03 am
Just ride a Palfrey, it´s very affordable.

And after you earned some money with it, you can switch to your high tier Horse.

I mean, I´d like to be able to use my Destrier every Round, but I can´t, even when I go naked, and this seems to be what chadz intended.Play as cheap-ass Soldier for a shitload of rounds and then play as Heavy Cavalry or whatever you like for a few.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Seawied on January 18, 2011, 10:49:24 am
I mean, I´d like to be able to use my Destrier every Round, but I can´t, even when I go naked, and this seems to be what chadz intended.Play as cheap-ass Soldier for a shitload of rounds and then play as Heavy Cavalry or whatever you like for a few.

This in my opinion sums up the problems with the current installment of the mod. chadz solved people grinding to high gear by.... forcing EVERYONE to grind just to be able to use mid-gear.

God forbid if you start a new character, save up your money for that one item you want more than anything else, spend every last penny, and have it break the first round you use it.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Oberyn on January 18, 2011, 10:52:30 am
Maybe it's from the occasional Merc trains, but I've found a kind of balance where I dont gain or lose gold much. Turban Helmet, Mamluke Armor, Mail boots and gloves, Sarranid Horse, Deadly Heavy Lance and Elite Cav shield. This is way over the supposed soft cap on equip cost but it works apparently.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Viceroy on January 18, 2011, 10:58:40 am
Huey, you have my vote.

You are definitely one of the most respectable cav players I've seen on the servers.
You know how to fight on foot, and you use strategy.

Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: TommyHu on January 18, 2011, 11:14:45 am
I'm just gonna throw my 2cents in, with only really reading the OP....after playing the new update and getting used to the repair costs, I'm not longer losing money. I still use my courser every round, but I just have to cut back on armor. Atleast when you have a low multiplier. When I'm below 4x I use my lighter armor, sarranid mail with no helm or gloves, and when 4x or 5x I use all my heavy shit. Ever since shuffling my armor around my money has been teetering back and forth around 50k. ATM it's currently up to 54k after playing like a map and a half at 5x   :D   

You just have to know what you're worth as cav....(rant incoming: its Cavalry, not Calvary. no reason to abbreviate it calv. the L isn't  pronounced before the V), Adjust what you're wearing until you can keep your money hoovering around a certain point.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on January 18, 2011, 11:46:10 am
This in my opinion sums up the problems with the current installment of the mod. chadz solved people grinding to high gear by.... forcing EVERYONE to grind just to be able to use mid-gear.

God forbid if you start a new character, save up your money for that one item you want more than anything else, spend every last penny, and have it break the first round you use it.
I don't think you are really forced to do that. The good part of the system is that all players are on even ground, so you can do very good with mid-level-gear (which is affordable). On melee I have much fun with great sword, barbutte, mail mittens and studded leather over mail and earn good money with it. More than enough to use heavy armour here and there and buying new items.
More on Topic it would be really great if there would be other choices than allways palfrey. The prices of courser, sarranid horse and the like could be lowered a bit.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Tai Feng on January 18, 2011, 12:36:34 pm
Whoever said there are few horses on the battlefield, this seems to be the case on NA servers only. And when I went there for a bit yesterday I realized why - your maps are Counterstrike maps, such as town alleys. Or, it's a map where you fight on boats. Or the map where you mostly climb the stairs/hills. Where would you use cavalry here anyway?

EU gives a much more accurate picture, and there are more and more horse archers on EU, and plenty of horses.

This in my opinion sums up the problems with the current installment of the mod. chadz solved people grinding to high gear by.... forcing EVERYONE to grind just to be able to use mid-gear.

Stop for a moment there with emotions :)

With current upkeep one can afford a lot. And you're not forced to grind - you're forced to use different playstyles if you want to be heavy cav. This is the opposite of grind, which forces you to do same thing all the time. If you feel that anything else but using extremely expensive equipment is boring for you, then that would indeed be grind *for you*. But it's how game is intended to be played now, and it's a good improvement.


Everyone has a great opportunity now to explore different weapons in the game, to explore different armor. Many actually do that. Try it.
I often played as a peasant with a fork even a month ago before the new patch. You can earn a lot of gold that way and end up top3 in your team and have fun. If you don't like that, you can play infantry with decent weapon such as, say, Glaive, and in medium armor. I play that too. It's also fun, and also bring a lot of gold. So you end up with so much gold that you can afford pretty much anything.


Before, game encouraged grinding for plate and chargers, and rewarded it. It's all everyone did. Grinded. Played in a very linear way. Now, game rewards using different equipment (or staying at upkeep cap). There's much less grind, and much more fun.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: TheFinn on January 22, 2011, 08:33:22 pm
Remember when I said terrible players topping the scoreboard because of their OP horses? Meet terrible player!

Finn
, I'd just like to let you know, the epic proportions of your awfulness is not bound by the atlantic ocean and tales of how terrible a player you really are well known even in America. That has GOT to tell you something  :lol:

Wtf ? I'm that bad ? Gee nice to know :D I mean my ground combat is horrible, but on horse I don't consider myself that bad :D Well, at least I'm now famous! :D

Wow, I knew this guy was a complete idiot, but i never realized before just how undeservedly arrogant he is too.  If you must know I have played cav quite a bit with my alt, and yes it is way too expensive.  Do you really expect people to think youa re a good player simply because you brag about how many people you kill.  All I have seen you ever do is maybe trample people a bit with an elephant but then die really quickly once dehorsed.  Huey is actually a great cavalry fighter and uses light cav to get his kills and his argument is extremely reasonable, just because you know how to trample doesnt make youa  cavalry expert Michael, Finn, whatever..

Light cavalry should be viable every round with light armour. I have yet to roll a cavalry character post-patch and test it, but if it's not, well, it should be.

As for Finn/Michael...EU has to put up with him but we've got Thulsa Doom. Speaking of which, I haven't really seen that douche around...

A case of mistaken identity ? Michael (Finished) and TheFinn are not the same player. (But I do agree with you that at least light cavalry should be economically viable.)

Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: AgentQ on January 22, 2011, 08:37:19 pm
1. too many throwers can one shot light horse.
2. archers everywhere
3. horses are slower and weaker.

u better roll a thrower/archer
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Leshma on January 22, 2011, 08:52:56 pm
Light cav is perfectly fine as it is and most people riding horses do exceptionally good.

Archers are fine atm.

Xbow is fine also, maybe a bit gimp.

What isn't fine at all is throwing. It's everywhere, cavs are afraid of throwers more than they're afraid of pikemen. Everyone has a shield nowadays not because of archers/xbowmen but because of throwers.

Fix throwing and you've fixed the game and balance, at least that's mine opinion.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Kafein on January 22, 2011, 09:00:01 pm
People seem to think 10% of cavalry in each team is too much.

While 33% seems logical, we have roughly 3 troop types.

My 2cents is to lower light horse costs a bit, a very slight nerf (or nerf cavalry weapons) on them. And make heavy horses a little les expensive. Actually they are banned from the game. Yes you can afford a plated charger for x rounds with y gold, but whatever ?
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: PhantomZero on January 22, 2011, 10:06:53 pm
I think people forget that there is a reason cavalry players are so good. If they aren't good, they are dead and with nothing to show for it.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Leshma on January 22, 2011, 10:08:35 pm
Same goes for infantry except strength crusher build.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Kimichi on January 22, 2011, 11:32:01 pm
My heavy plated charger agrees with this notion.

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Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Ronish on January 23, 2011, 01:30:27 am
Even the weakest horses give a nice advantage over people on foot if used correctly. Also with the way archery works now, it takes several arrows to drop light cav (barring headshots). If you're light cav and want to wear armor with a total purchase cost of 10k and up with all the weapons you want to have, well then, sorry. That is a bit much to ask for. If you want better horses, you'll have to sacrifice something. I can usually take a few hits in 4k worth of armor.

I'm about to retire and run melee with a cheap lance, cheap shield, Palfrey, my choice of polearm for melee and about 18k in armor. That'll be around 35k in gear to maintain. Based on the cost or my current setup (for upkeep) and how fast I'm earning gold, I can maintain this except when I lose way too much consecutively. When that happens, I'll have to drop something to lower upkeep. That is life in crpg.

I can appreciate your frustration. I'd just be worried about creating a situation where 1/4 or more of players are permanently on horseback. It's no fun having to try and dodge a horse every 5 seconds.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Chaos on January 23, 2011, 02:03:05 am
Horse costs were reduced and archery nerf indirectly bufffed cav by reducing the number of archers. I've got no beef with cav now
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on January 23, 2011, 02:18:13 am
I used to play cav(sarranid) all the time. with the upkeep i went from 20k to 0k. i'm finally getting my money back but i havnt took my horse out of the stable since iv started getting money back.

I'v come to a point, even though i have a cav build, not to even think about using my horse. i think i'v actually completly forgot about it and see myself as a polearm guy!

why ride your horse? see it go down in 2 arrows and pay 1.2k for that every round! not thanks! Your sure that if you ride your horse you'll lose money whatsoever!
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Beans on January 23, 2011, 02:58:47 am
My heavy plated charger agrees with this notion.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


yo what movie is this from?

 it is something I need to see



Also I hate horses, and people who ride them.  I go out of my way every round to kill as many horses as possible.  Even I must admit that horses need some tweaking.

Every other playstyle or class has gear they can use that still is respectable and can earn money in.  If you are a 1h+shield you can stop using that side sword and use a nordic one.  If you are 2h you can stop the flameberge and use a cheaper sword of war.  Crossbowmen can swap to a lower level crossbow.  Even when you are playing with the lower cost gear you still function in the same style as when you have the better gear.  That is good because you made your character to play that specific style, just sometimes you are slightly less effective(shitty gear).

With horsemen they really don't have that option.  For them to build up some money they have to go on foot, something which they are terrible at because it's good balance to make them not dominate on both horse and foot.  Also the player doesn't want to play on foot, that's why they made a horseman in the first place.  I guess they could use the sumpter, but it is really just a cruel joke you might as well not use it and simply avoid the potential repair bill.  Infantry and archers don't have to revert to awful peasant gear to build up some cash, I don't see why horsemen are also forced to.

I think the sumpter should be removed and replaced cost wise with the palfrey, or have the cost of the sumpter, rouncy, and palfrey reduced.
Title: Re: [Complaint] Why make it so cavalry is not a viable option?
Post by: Kaelaen on January 23, 2011, 03:23:49 am
yo what movie is this from?

Alluda Majaka.  The entire chase scene is flat out the greatest chase scene ever shot on film (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0xig56owAk), the horse slide is just the highlight of it.