I am wondering when the developers are going to take a look at the Bec de Corbin.
This weapon is completely bugged its way faster then the speed indicated it counter attack and swing faster then any other weapons in the game its ridiculous.
It also swing thru blocks and shield on some occasion alot more then other weapons.
Someone need to take a look at the real data on Bec de Corbin cause i am sure this weapon is bugged and the stats indicated on the website are wrong.
The Bec is a North American problem because every moron who watches Goretooth can pick up the weapon and put on plate is going to get out of his scrubbiness and start kicking butt.By the time they realize they can't afford the upkeep and actually perform shitty because they can't close in, it's already too late because they're poor as fuck and can't switch out (after blowing their crpg life savings on the bec).Everyone has too much money these days, with people being able to wear plate for most rounds. Including myself.Except the problem with that is that there are other morons and scrubs who can't block, who think it's overpowered because they haven't the first idea how to block and end up getting wasted by what the little peasants perceive to be an overpowered weapon. Hence it looks overpowered because the dirty peasants get hammered by one of the shortest polearms in the game.Even if you block it and counter, one glance on their armor will kill you due to polestun, and one missed block will kill you due to polestun. Polestun combined with a glance is an immediate 1-2 shot death.
How to Win :
#1 Buy a loomed Bec
#2 Buy some plate
#3 Make a 30-6 or 27-9 build
#4 Profit (or at least, stop getting scrubbed)
Ah gawd, This will be a issue if you NA stop using STR builds, but with only 9 agility (lol) it is pathetic speed to be honest, try the bec with a 18/18 or even a 18/21 if you wanna be a real issue...
You EU have no clue. a 24-12 build has all the melee skill one needs to be successful. 139 WPF or something like that. You can go with less due to the polestun, easily.You have got no clue at all, do you? If everyone goes strength, than using short weapons is easier, because people are slow as hell.
I may be a bit bias though, as a 1h xbow I can usually kite these guys all day, hit them maybe 3-4 times, then die to a single glance.
Then again, Dexx is bias too, he carries one on his back all them time. Whips it out when he needs to kill as many people as possible. Its simply OP in a decent players armored hands, unless you have a can opener weapon for yourself. But, most of these are shorter than the Bec anyways.
It does need to be looked at.
Tydeus made a 18/21 with the bec and was pulling the same scores as his 27/12 Miao build, not bad. The bec does enough pierce damage that it does not need high STR to still two shot tin cans with proper head strikes.
You have got no clue at all, do you? If everyone goes strength, than using short weapons is easier, because people are slow as hell.
This is why EU is more advanced, if you go full strength there, you will get your arse kicked by Phyrex, Bjord, Greifenherz, Atze, and all the other players who went for 21 agility.
Get your facts straight.
You EU have no clue. a 24-12 build has all the melee skill one needs to be successful. 139 WPF or something like that. You can go with less due to the polestun, easily.
I may be a bit bias though, as a 1h xbow I can usually kite these guys all day, hit them maybe 3-4 times, then die to a single glance.
Then again, Dexx is bias too, he carries one on his back all them time. Whips it out when he needs to kill as many people as possible. Its simply OP in a decent players armored hands, unless you have a can opener weapon for yourself. But, most of these are shorter than the Bec anyways.
It does need to be looked at.
Tydeus made a 18/21 with the bec and was pulling the same scores as his 27/12 Miao build, not bad. The bec does enough pierce damage that it does not need high STR to still two shot tin cans with proper head strikes.
I'd rather call this development a downfall instead of an evolution.(click to show/hide)
I'd rather call this development a downfall instead of an evolution.
EU is not agility orientated at all, we are just orientated to balance, which means not taking excessive amounts of strength or agility.
Without enough agility, you can't have enough wpf to go into heavy armour without your blows being insanely slow. I don't get at all why people in NA go for these builds, it only gimps your character. People say going strength builds makes you better versus archer spam, well, it won't, archers can just run away, by going low agility you are making it much easier for them.
The Bec de Corbin fairytale in NA has to stop, this weapon is fine.
I'd rather call this development a downfall instead of an evolution.
EU is not agility orientated at all, we are just orientated to balance, which means not taking excessive amounts of strength or agility.
Without enough agility, you can't have enough wpf to go into heavy armour without your blows being insanely slow. I don't get at all why people in NA go for these builds, it only gimps your character. People say going strength builds makes you better versus archer spam, well, it won't, archers can just run away, by going low agility you are making it much easier for them.
The Bec de Corbin fairytale in NA has to stop, this weapon is fine.
I honestly dont even think its that most of NA is strength oriented builds, its that everyone calls everyone out for "cructching" on str builds when were agi/balanced anyways. Almost everyone thought that Tydeus was STR when i started playing and he wasnt at the time. I still get "Typical dfc player, str build in tincan" half the times i do well on servers and im an agility build.
Also you dont need high wpf to have enough swingspeed to play well, each wpf you have takes approx .001 seconds off your swing. Its noticeable going from 1wpf to 140 wpf but the difference between the 150ish wpf that a agi build gets and the 125-130 wpf that a str build will get is really minimal. At best youre looking at around a .02 second swing time advantage over a str build. Considering most human reflexes are between .120 seconds and .180 seconds .02 is a really minimal increase in the grander scheme of things. What actually makes the swings on agility builds seem so much faster is the fact that when you sidestep you accelerate much faster at 6-8 athletics than you would at 3-4 in the same gear.
Im not going to argue that either build is superior because the best duelists i've seen in NA aren't all at the same end of the spectrum. One is 27/12, one is 18/21, one is 18/18.
Its a playstyle preference more than anything else, crpg essentially doesn't have "min-maxing" like a lot of games do. Personal skill matters far more than your build ever will.
Every weapon can become deadly in the hands of a pro, some of them are better than others, the bec de corbin isn't one of them.(click to show/hide)
I honestly dont even think its that most of NA is strength oriented builds, its that everyone calls everyone out for "cructching" on str builds when were agi/balanced anyways. Almost everyone thought that Tydeus was STR when i started playing and he wasnt at the time. I still get "Typical dfc player, str build in tincan" half the times i do well on servers and im an agility build.
Also you dont need high wpf to have enough swingspeed to play well, each wpf you have takes approx .001 seconds off your swing. Its noticeable going from 1wpf to 140 wpf but the difference between the 150ish wpf that a agi build gets and the 125-130 wpf that a str build will get is really minimal. At best youre looking at around a .02 second swing time advantage over a str build. Considering most human reflexes are between .120 seconds and .180 seconds .02 is a really minimal increase in the grander scheme of things. What actually makes the swings on agility builds seem so much faster is the fact that when you sidestep you accelerate much faster at 6-8 athletics than you would at 3-4 in the same gear.
Im not going to argue that either build is superior because the best duelists i've seen in NA aren't all at the same end of the spectrum. One is 27/12, one is 18/21, one is 18/18.
Its a playstyle preference more than anything else, crpg essentially doesn't have "min-maxing" like a lot of games do. Personal skill matters far more than your build ever will.
Every weapon can become deadly in the hands of a pro, some of them are better than others, the bec de corbin isn't one of them.
We don't stack agi or strength, we mostly go for balanced builds, which means some go 21/18, some go 18/21 and maybe some will go for the 24/15 or 15/24 variants.
The Bec is fine. Want to know when it was OP? When it had blunt damage. Now please, stop whining about a weapon shorter than a onehander.
Gumdrawp seems to be the only one getting it here, I agree that there is little difference between 148 and 156 wpf, but some prefer it. However strength builds only get 120-130 wpf, if they go for a little agility. Which means going heavy armour is a no go, unless you want your hits to be so slow, that everyone can block them easily.
EU have an immense skill gap.I must say, since the beginning of c-rpg, the EU playerbase has become a lot more skilled than they used to. Sure you got some morons, but the active playerbase is usually skilled.
Either you're a peasant, a total moron, or a demi god, in my experience there.
I've never fought an average player who could block at a consistent level (ie blocks alright, but misses the occasional swing etc)
I'm sorry Vieuxcrotter the problem is with you. You're a newer player and you aren't quite understanding what you're seeing on the battlefield. We all started there once, its okay. Its okay to vent too but if you want to become a better player you need to adjust you're attitude a little. Rather than say the weapon is broken bullshit instead just leave it at I fucking hate that weapon and then once you're more calm ask, okay what do I need to work on to fight that player better.And Unbaanced flag on MS.
Some weapons are hard to follow and fight when you don't have much experience against them (longsword, warspear/staff, bec, small one handers behind big shields, ect.) Once you're comfortable with their animations in each position you have to get used to tracking them through deep feints and then on top of that you have to get comfortable enough to figure out what you're seeing when a player if feinting and spinning around to further mask what he is doing. The additional headache of fighting polearms is getting used to the length of the polestun. Attempt to block too soon afterwards and you'll still be stunned and by the time you realize your block isn't going up you might not have enough time to try and block again. Work on improving your skills as a player and then come back to this balance topic.
My problem with the bec isn't actually the bec itself rather its that 2h does not have an equivalent weapon (can opener.) The morning star might not be the best comparison because of its bonus against shields but given that all the 2h blunt/pierce are unbalance (beside the little mace) the morningstar (with its shield bonus) is the only one even worth comparing. The below is just one of the many reasons I've gone polearm.
-----
Bec vs morningstar I've factored animations into weapon length giving their effective range
Dmg 38 to 36 in favor of Morningstar
Speed 93 to 92 in favor of Bec
Overhead 105 to 97 in favor of bec
Left to right 113 to 99 in favor of bec
Right to left 118 to 95 in favor of bec
Thurst Bec wins by default with 139 range
Weight 3.8 to 2.8 in favor or Morning Star
Price Morningstar is currently 4158 cheaper.
And Unbaanced flag on MS.And bonus against shields on Morningstar.
And bonus against shields on Morningstar.True dat.
I dunno, I am happy that the polearm catagory has different gear then the two handers and that sometimes there are no equivalents for one or the other. Makes them a bit more unique.Indeed, every class has their, although small, perks.
Indeed, every class has their, although small, perks.Even ha????!
Even ha????!
The bec is pretty much the only viable polearm for duels even tho the animation is terrible and really easy to block the damage makes up for it. >.>Umm No.
The bec is pretty much the only viable polearm for duels even tho the animation is terrible and really easy to block the damage makes up for it. >.>Lmao I disagree wholehearthly.
When a weapon accounts for a HUGELY disproportion amount of the kills and being used by masses, that means something is wrong. Not hard to figure out.This weapon isn't overused at all.
This weapon isn't overused at all.In EU where balancing is done.
Peasant of Chaos
Faction: Chaos
Game nicks: Dexxtaa_of_Chaos
IRC nick: dexxtaa
Re: Bec de Corbin issue
« Reply #22 on: Today at 14:16:14 »Quote0 Voters list: EU have an immense skill gap.
Either you're a peasant, a total moron, or a demi god, in my experience there
This weapon isn't overused at all.
it is in NA. and I would bet a decent amount of crpg gold that NA bec kills far outweigh whatever Euro most used weapon is (prob some 2h sword or something)
In EU where balancing is done.
I honestly don't know why anyoneFixed.from NAin c-rpg even bothers lobbying for anything.
I'm sorry Vieuxcrotter the problem is with you. You're a newer player and you aren't quite understanding what you're seeing on the battlefield. We all started there once, its okay. Its okay to vent too but if you want to become a better player you need to adjust you're attitude a little. Rather than say the weapon is broken bullshit instead just leave it at I fucking hate that weapon and then once you're more calm ask, okay what do I need to work on to fight that player better.
Some weapons are hard to follow and fight when you don't have much experience against them (longsword, warspear/staff, bec, small one handers behind big shields, ect.) Once you're comfortable with their animations in each position you have to get used to tracking them through deep feints and then on top of that you have to get comfortable enough to figure out what you're seeing when a player if feinting and spinning around to further mask what he is doing. The additional headache of fighting polearms is getting used to the length of the polestun. Attempt to block too soon afterwards and you'll still be stunned and by the time you realize your block isn't going up you might not have enough time to try and block again. Work on improving your skills as a player and then come back to this balance topic.
My problem with the bec isn't actually the bec itself rather its that 2h does not have an equivalent weapon (can opener.) The morning star might not be the best comparison because of its bonus against shields but given that all the 2h blunt/pierce are unbalance (beside the little mace) the morningstar (with its shield bonus) is the only one even worth comparing. The below is just one of the many reasons I've gone polearm.
-----
Bec vs morningstar I've factored animations into weapon length giving their effective range
Dmg 38 to 36 in favor of Morningstar
Speed 93 to 92 in favor of Bec
Overhead 105 to 97 in favor of bec
Left to right 113 to 99 in favor of bec
Right to left 118 to 95 in favor of bec
Thurst Bec wins by default with 139 range
Weight 3.8 to 2.8 in favor or Morning Star
Price Morningstar is currently 4158 cheaper.
Your funny i got 300hrs logged in crpg im generation 4, i finish on top score pretty much on each map except when im too drunk, and im pretty sure i can trash you with my monitor off. So keep your l2p comment for yourself because it doesnt mean shit.Never seen you top any soreboard...UNLESS your monitors upside down and you think ur top when in fact ur bottom!It all makes sense now!
Your funny i got 300hrs logged in crpg im generation 4, i finish on top score pretty much on each map except when im too drunk, and im pretty sure i can trash you with my monitor off. So keep your l2p comment for yourself because it doesnt mean shit.
And i didnt cry in my post that bec was OP i dont have to provide argument to proove shit, i said this weapon is bugged and asked calmly the developers to take a look a the real data on the weapons cause i am pretty sure its not the stats indicated on the website.
Bec is the only OP weapon right now in the game. I use a sword of war which is the same speed costs more to repair does less damage and has no retarded polestun. It makes no sense it still hasn't been nerfed.Because of the animations your twohander has got more reach, stop whining.
Because of the animations your twohander has got more reach, stop whining.And the animation means its harder to block compared to Polearms.
Just give us back blunt damage for Bec swing and overhead. Have you ever seen any hammer with pierce damage?
And the animation means its harder to block compared to Polearms.Nope, I've been polearmer and I've been twohander, it's way easier to block with 2handers imo.
Nope, I've been polearmer and I've been twohander, it's way easier to block with 2handers imo.Let me rephrase it, blocking polearms is much easier than blocking a 2 hander like the Danish.
And I'd agree on a blunt damage version of the bec, which deals slightly less damage.
Let me rephrase it, blocking polearms is much easier than blocking a 2 hander like the Danish.I agree, twohander animations are the hardest to block.
The Bec is a North American problem because every moron who watches Goretooth thinks that by picking up the weapon is going to get out of his scrubbiness and start kicking butt.
By the time they realize they can't afford the upkeep and actually perform shitty because they can't close in, it's already too late because they're poor as fuck and can't switch out (after blowing their crpg life savings on the bec).
Except the problem with that is that there are other morons and scrubs who can't block, who think it's overpowered because they haven't the first idea how to block and end up getting wasted by what the little peasants perceive to be an overpowered weapon. Hence it looks overpowered because the dirty peasants get hammered by one of the shortest polearms in the game.
How to fix :
#1 Buy any other weapon (almost anything is longer than a bec)
#2 L2block
#3 ????
#4 Profit (or at least, stop getting scrubbed)
Your funny i got 300hrs logged in crpg im generation 4, i finish on top score pretty much on each map except when im too drunk, and im pretty sure i can trash you with my monitor off. So keep your l2p comment for yourself because it doesnt mean shit. Oh and also Quallen i dont know if you play EU or NA but come visit us on NA and see if you are so good and finish on top of the score list, you might be up for a little surprise.
And i didnt cry in my post that bec was OP i dont have to provide argument to proove shit, i said this weapon is bugged and asked calmly the developers to take a look a the real data on the weapons cause i am pretty sure its not the stats indicated on the website.
Is it necessary to bring shitty, overused, console slang to the PC? Or is this the start of the new douchebag era?
And yeah, the bec probably could be looked at, but in my perspective It's just another polearm being a polearm.
The speed is probaly people just turning into their swings.Maybe :)
I don't see why people say that it's short.. 120 length is about as long (if not longer) as most 2 handers.. It's also longer than the actual in-game model shows.Its 100 reach as Polearm gets -20 reach cos of Animation so its shorter than alot of 1 handers.
/fixed
This needs to be fixed.
Oh and all of this was in Dexx's voice. In case anyone was wondering.
Maybe :)
I'm sorry but when you say newbie shit like "It also swing thru blocks and shield on some occasion alot more then other weapons" and "This weapon is completely bugged its way faster then the speed indicated it counter attack and swing faster then any other weapons in the game its ridiculous." i don't know what to do besides assume you're new to the game(that also sure looks like crying to me.)
Look at the item_kinds1.txt file and you can see the becs stats are just how the site lists them.
Nice tough guy act there struggle bear. I was actually trying to be nice but since you brought it up, learn 2 play.
Its 100 reach as Polearm gets -20 reach cos of Animation so its shorter than alot of 1 handers.Not that many actually, only 7 are longer, the practice sword, shashka, long/knightly arming sword, arabian cavalry sword, nordic champion sword and long espada are longer than 100 length and the longest has a length of 105, not much longer.
Screw you, Karma.
SHHHHHHHHHHH
+1
Vieuxcrotter, Quallen's original post was very constructive and patient. You going instantly on the defensive is poor form, and does not reflect well of your alleged "300 hours." Given your response, I'm less inclined to believe any of your claims.
In other news, I don't see you topping any scoreboards. I've also seen you play.
hahah.... bullsh.....This is obvious fact well known since Warband beta. Due to grip, the effective length of the polearms is their length minus ~20.
try to test weapon in duel server first.
i tested Great long axe and danisch greate sword.
GLA have longer swing animation but shorter overhead and stab
BUT SoW have longer swing than GLA!!!!! but that weapon is shorter!!!!!
so peps go test your weapon in duel serwer.
You have got no clue at all, do you? If everyone goes strength, than using short weapons is easier, because people are slow as hell.
This is why EU is more advanced, if you go full strength there, you will get your arse kicked by Phyrex, Bjord, Greifenherz, Atze, and all the other players who went for 21 agility.
Get your facts straight.
You have got no clue at all, do you? If everyone goes strength, than using short weapons is easier, because people are slow as hell.
This is why EU is more advanced, if you go full strength there, you will get your arse kicked by Phyrex, Bjord, Greifenherz, Atze, and all the other players who went for 21 agility.
Get your facts straight.
Lols EU is more advanced. Me and King Chris played on EU for like 2 hours with 200 ping every map we were like first place on opposite teams it was I didn't see anybody "Advanced" we are both strength builds. Dexx knows what he is talking about.
In conclusion, everyone is a terribad player!This.
Screw you, Karma.
SHHHHHHHHHHH
+1
Vieuxcrotter, Quallen's original post was very constructive and patient. You going instantly on the defensive is poor form, and does not reflect well of your alleged "300 hours." Given your response, I'm less inclined to believe any of your claims.
In other news, I don't see you topping any scoreboards. I've also seen you play.
Don"t want to get involvedI don't mean to hurt your ego but the skill level of people who play on siege isn't anywhere comparable to battle. Looking at the na1 siege stats you barely even have a 1-1 ratio, despite your claims that you top the board almost every round.
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with sword and board
Chaos is noob clan :twisted:
I don't mean to hurt your ego but the skill level of people who play on siege isn't anywhere comparable to battle. Looking at the na1 siege stats you barely even have a 1-1 ratio, despite your claims that you top the board almost every round.
I've been critical of the bec myself even right after the latest big patch came out, but after playing for a bit the soak damage changes has really reduced its effectiveness.
The Bec is certainly a bit odd though I'm not sure it needs too much of a change. When I do get hit by a Bec it does frequently seem to strike sooner than it "should" -- maybe it's the animation, which really wouldn't be the weapon's fault or the fault of bad balancing anyway. Add in the silly stun effect and occasionally getting hit a second time before you can block and that's probably where most of the problem is.The biggest difference is the fact most clans play battle compared to siege being mostly solo players. The teamwork in siege is almost non existent and the friendly damage is through the roof.
It's definitely overused, but the funny thing about gamers as a whole is that they are like water and overwhelmingly take the path of least resistance and thus naturally gravitate to the most powerful and effective weapons/spells/skills/etc. Its been true of every game released over the past 30 years and is no different in this game. So, weapons that are overused are by their very nature clearly providing a tangible benefit to the player. The Bec clearly fits the bill, but how out of balance is it? If at all, probably not much.
And, on the Battle vs Siege tangent. I may not have enough time on Battle to speak with finality, but the ONLY real skill difference I see on Battle is with archers - but again this also seems to correlate highly with map design -- not to mention the simple safety in numbers you get from archers on Siege. Rather the real difference seems to be purely the average level of the character on Siege vs Battle. I see far more peasants and folks grinding on Siege, but I find killing folks on Battle no more difficult than Siege -- there are just a few more freebies with each Siege run.
@BcBKC Tell that to Blackrose or DL these guys do insane teamplay on siege server. And when i play with my crew we always do teamplay.