cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gash on July 24, 2011, 05:44:15 pm
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A few admins on the NA Siege Server brought up some re-occurring issues concerning players pushing the limits of the established rules and then arguing with said admins that no rules were written to stop them from abusing ambiguous mechanics.
So here it is :
-Common Sense & Fair Play-
Glitching terrain and walls is forbidden. Use common sense. Floating ladders (ladders that defeat gravity) and abusing such bugs or glitches is against the spirit of fair-play and not tolerated on our servers.
The Rules thread has been updated to include the obvious. :rolleyes:
For those of you who do abuse terrain glitches or other bugged mechanics and think its cute to jump down an admin's throat with your entire clan after he decides to punish one of you; you've been warned. The Forums are there for that - so don't do it in-game.
Take care
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So first you punish guys who dont brake any rules and then after 'update' the rules? Classy.
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So first you punish guys who dont brake any rules and then after 'update' the rules? Classy.
I honestly didn't believe that common sense things like glitching through walls needed to be written down.
As far as i'm concerned, glitching and abusing game mechanics has always been punishable. The admins just wanted something written and clear.
If that's what certain players need to stop gaining unfair advantages over the other team, so be it.
Keep your trolling for someone who cares.
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I've always wondered why you bother arguing with people about administration at all. The funniest part of CRPG is watching NA admins ask permission to admin and explaining themselves to the very disruptive players they are taking action against.
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What about unbreakable practice shield? Is this against the rules?
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What about unbreakable practice shield? Is this against the rules?
Yes if it is part of the "dented" glitch, no if it is a 13 shield skill.
It is worth noting that regardless of whose server you are playing on and what rules the server has, chadz has made it very clear that on any cRPG server exploiting and deliberately Glitching is against the rules.
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What about unbreakable practice shield? Is this against the rules?
Unbreakable shields? I was not aware of this to be honest.
Much like the invisible weapons we had a few months back... those who used them were asked to change weapons. Those who refused were removed.
Common sense. If a shield is unbreakable, its probably a bug. Don't abuse it.
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Common sense. If a shield is unbreakable, its probably a bug. Don't abuse it.
Unless of course you have 13 skill, that has been deemed acceptable.
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I've always wondered why you bother arguing with people about administration at all. The funniest part of CRPG is watching NA admins ask permission to admin and explaining themselves to the very disruptive players they are taking action against.
Welcome to America, the NA servers.
This is how our entire country is run.
literally in the newspaper yesterday for example,
(Chicago)
377 assaults on officers
23 shots
The article was looking at police brutality and all the excessive force.lmao.
its just like really?
statistics alone show how fucked up it is.
red tape is fucking this country up.
Even hank hill agreed in that episode he couldnt get his liscense fixed,
and he is like THEE American.
you know a democracy is in trouble when you have to disable the polling system, its very foundation. (NA)
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Unless of course you have 13 skill, that has been deemed acceptable.
Interesting build.
So you say that a bardiche could not destroy a wooden practice shield if the user has 13 shield skill? :shock:
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Interesting build.
So you say that a bardiche could not destroy a wooden practice shield if the user has 13 shield skill? :shock:
13 skill gives you 104% resistance, meaning nothing can break the shield. I think you end up with incredibly low powerstrike, however so it balances out. The build is like an annoying fly that pokes occasionally (with a polearm I'd assume) doing next to no damage, but causing stun and having stonewall defense.
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Interesting build.
So you say that a bardiche could not destroy a wooden practice shield if the user has 13 shield skill? :shock:
Yup, I made a STF build with 3/39 1 PS 3 WM 13 SHL and funny enough with 39 AGI you don't need athletics. 13 shield give 8%*13skill=104 damage resistance to the shield.
Use the 105 speed shield and you only have to think about blocking and be invulnerable to those who don't know how to kick or use proper foot work. Use the Nordic Short Sword for main combat or the 114 speed dagger for quick irritating papercuts and you can slowly kill someone via headshots, or more commonly just tie up a great axe user and laugh manically.
Ultimate support build, though avoid everything with crushthrough....
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So first you punish guys who dont brake any rules and then after 'update' the rules? Classy.
The rule has always existed--common sense, not glitching etc.
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Unless of course you have 13 skill, that has been deemed acceptable.
Alright, then I'm assuming Roy Morrison was referring to this build.
TearsofDestiny, you say that this has been deemed acceptable... by the dev team as well? Any links to this issue being raised before?
I think it's kind of silly - but if the dev team doesn't have a problem with this built. Then so be it.
I thought the item itself was invincible, like the certain sword used to be invisible
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It's because these whining cunts love to set themselves up as some kind of freedom martyrs, at the mercy of the tyrannical admins, when really the only thing they're defending is the right to be selfish tards for whom the personal enjoyment of the game (regardless of rules) supersedes anyone else's.
I don't think it has anything to do with NA in particular, this type of thing happens in EU all the time, our admins might be less willing to deal with such bullshit though, maybe because they're considered "official" as opposed to NA servers who were clan admin'd for a long time.
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Alright, then I'm assuming Roy Morrison was referring to this build.
TearsofDestiny, you say that this has been deemed acceptable... by the dev team as well? Any links to this issue being raised before?
I think it's kind of silly - but if the dev team doesn't have a problem with this built. Then so be it.
I thought the item itself was invincible, like the certain sword used to be invisible
Oh, I think it was on IRC that the devs talked about it being ok after some debate (That may have been started by three people using STF to roll that build and then get kicked by a certain admin thinking they were cheating). This issue certainly was raised before, but I think it was deemed ok as core game mechanics allow it to happen, and let us face it, 1PS melee builds are not that scary as 39 AGI gimps you so this is hardly unbalanced. Spin spear fighting or stepping around the guy or crushthrough or even kicks can defeat it.
As for the last sentence, there is a bug that if you break a certain shield yadda yadda yadda yadda then you have an unbreakable shield, which is cheating due to being a glitch possible even with 0 shield skill.
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I honestly didn't believe that common sense things like glitching through walls needed to be written down.
As far as i'm concerned, glitching and abusing game mechanics has always been punishable. The admins just wanted something written and clear.
If that's what certain players need to stop gaining unfair advantages over the other team, so be it.
Keep your trolling for someone who cares.
It is worth noting that regardless of whose server you are playing on and what rules the server has, chadz has made it very clear that on any cRPG server exploiting and deliberately Glitching is against the rules.
Wtf? chadz said quite clearly about glitching that if it's in the game it's ok.
Also how does glitching give anyone advantage if anyone else can do it too?
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Wtf? chadz said quite clearly about glitching that if it's in the game it's ok.
Also how does glitching give anyone advantage if anyone else can do it too?
Then splain please why people who use the unbreakable shield glitch by tinkering with breaking practice shields etc is not allowed?
Where did he say it was ok?
In the rules it says glitching is allowed but being an asshat is not and "No exploiting of any kind
NOT OK: Using a bug to gain undeserved benefits"
Stacking ladders in the air and glitching past castle defenses sounds to me a lot like "Exploiting" and not a "harmless" glitch. I do believe this counts towards being an asshat?
EDIT: If you need a clear example, look at the invisible sword glitch that was not allowed since it was considered an "exploit" due to giving you an undeserved advantage.
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Yup, I made a STF build with 3/39 1 PS 3 WM 13 SHL and funny enough with 39 AGI you don't need athletics. 13 shield give 8%*13skill=104 damage resistance to the shield.
Use the 105 speed shield and you only have to think about blocking and be invulnerable to those who don't know how to kick or use proper foot work. Use the Nordic Short Sword for main combat or the 114 speed dagger for quick irritating papercuts and you can slowly kill someone via headshots, or more commonly just tie up a great axe user and laugh manically.
Ultimate support build, though avoid everything with crushthrough....
hey don't worry you'er in the crushthrough thread(all over the place from the beginning) arguing for crush through to be removed from the remaining weapons as it interferes with player skill, like having 1 guy in your clan play an acceptable invincible shield build with 3 str 39 agi, which is totally a fair thing to do, but weapons going through that block, no MAN THATS UNFAIR lol
Tears=best lobbyist/con artist in the game
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Uhh..unless something's changed recently, Tears isn't in a clan..
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hey don't worry you'er in the crushthrough thread(all over the place from the beginning) arguing for crush through to be removed from the remaining weapons as it interferes with player skill, like having 1 guy in your clan play an acceptable invincible shield build with 3 str 39 agi, which is totally a fair thing to do, but weapons going through that block, no MAN THATS UNFAIR lol
Tears=best lobbyist/con artist in the game
Uhh..unless something's changed recently, Tears isn't in a clan..
This...
Also... I never said that I am lobbying for the removal of crush through, i just said that I don't like random chances for anything.
I like crush through as it is a natural counter to turtle shielders... Honestly as long as crush through remains on slow weapons I am fine.
I can understand calling me a lobbyist, but why a con artist?
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Wtf? chadz said quite clearly about glitching that if it's in the game it's ok.
Also how does glitching give anyone advantage if anyone else can do it too?
Please stop posting.
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:wink:
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Using the map is ok, exploiting stuff that is not supposed to work is not ok.
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Using the map is ok, exploiting stuff that is not supposed to work is not ok.
Out of curiosity how would you define people using ladders to "glitch" through the floor and into a room bypassing defenses on siege? Is that considered using a map? (Specifically, I am talking about throwing a ladder underneath something, then walking up the ladder and through the "roof" above you so that you pop up into the room. A lot of floors don't act as solids when approached from underneath)
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If the enemy can reach em, its ok. if the enemy cant, BANHAMMER!
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If the enemy can reach em, its ok. if the enemy cant, BANHAMMER!
Thank you! <3
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Me, Aldryk and Gafferjack were the 3 shielders that tried the 13 shield skills and got banned for "Cheating/Hacking/Exploiting", after some talk with Ecko and the Dev Team it was deemed ok and intended.
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yes, having 13 shield skills is ok. But you get so nerfed, you sucks at everything really, wouldnt recommend going 13 shield.
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13 Shield skill with the shortened spear is actually the ultimate support build, I've once took on like 8 players with another shielder and just because I could stagger them and have half of them whacking at my arena shield hoping for a free kill they all died and we won.
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How about hitting through solid doors? Is that considered glitching? Not the grated kind with huge gaping holes mind you, but solid doors you cannot see through.
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13 Shield skill with the shortened spear is actually the ultimate support build, I've once took on like 8 players with another shielder and just because I could stagger them and have half of them whacking at my arena shield hoping for a free kill they all died and we won.
haha, would have liked to see that. fraps or it didnt happen!
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How about hitting through solid doors? Is that considered glitching? Not the grated kind with huge gaping holes mind you, but solid doors you cannot see through.
If it's not considered an exploit and bannable it should be, it's retarded.
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Well the admins can then just randomly ban someone who attacks through doors and change the rules after that. So I'd avoid it.
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Yup, I made a STF build with 3/39 1 PS 3 WM 13 SHL and funny enough with 39 AGI you don't need athletics. 13 shield give 8%*13skill=104 damage resistance to the shield.
Use the 105 speed shield and you only have to think about blocking and be invulnerable to those who don't know how to kick or use proper foot work. Use the Nordic Short Sword for main combat or the 114 speed dagger for quick irritating papercuts and you can slowly kill someone via headshots, or more commonly just tie up a great axe user and laugh manically.
Ultimate support build, though avoid everything with crushthrough....
Is this build illegal and bannable? I made my STF character 3/39 to have some laughs with it, and it was pretty entertaining. A lot of people (millionaires in MW Gear lawl) called me useless (even though getting 5+ attackers to chase you around like idiots while the clock ticks down is pretty useful IMO :lol:), and that I should be banned, and change my build immediately and that chadz said it is against the official rules to use this 3/39 build, but I didn't see the link, so I wanted to clarify.
People were angry about the shield, but essentially all the shields represents is an easymode "perfect manual blocker". Your still suseptible to crushthrough, to getting kicked, and of course, you have 3 strength so you have on a peasant robe and about 20hp. Not to mention with power strike 1 you kill very rarely. Though with a wooden practice sword, it is fun to whack people in the head every so often while they beat on your shield to humiliate them.
So I wanted to clarify because all the angst I was getting from min/max 2H carebears in full plate, whether this build is considered an exploit and bannable or not. It seems to me, that given it's obvious weaknesses and fragility that it would not be, but then most of these guys complaining about me where old blood and probably friends with admins so I didn't want to bet against the clique.
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I don't remember asking for retroactive bans, just pointing out how subjective things can be around here, and PS I for whatever reason don't wear my heirloomed armor as I like to keep most of my athletics/wpp
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Is this build illegal and bannable? I made my STF character 3/39 to have some laughs with it, and it was pretty entertaining. A lot of people (millionaires in MW Gear lawl) called me useless (even though getting 5+ attackers to chase you around like idiots while the clock ticks down is pretty useful IMO :lol:), and that I should be banned, and change my build immediately and that chadz said it is against the official rules to use this 3/39 build, but I didn't see the link, so I wanted to clarify.
People were angry about the shield, but essentially all the shields represents is an easymode "perfect manual blocker". Your still suseptible to crushthrough, to getting kicked, and of course, you have 3 strength so you have on a peasant robe and about 20hp. Not to mention with power strike 1 you kill very rarely. Though with a wooden practice sword, it is fun to whack people in the head every so often while they beat on your shield to humiliate them.
So I wanted to clarify because all the angst I was getting from min/max 2H carebears in full plate, whether this build is considered an exploit and bannable or not. It seems to me, that given it's obvious weaknesses and fragility that it would not be, but then most of these guys complaining about me where old blood and probably friends with admins so I didn't want to bet against the clique.
It's illegal on the ATS servers, not on the Official servers.
Something that should have been clarified earlier.
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It's illegal on the ATS servers, not on the Official servers.
Uh, nope. I've not banned or kicked anyone and I havent seen anyone be punished for running around with 13 shield skill.
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It's illegal on the ATS servers, not on the Official servers.
Something that should have been clarified earlier.
Uh, nope. I've not banned or kicked anyone and I havent seen anyone be punished for running around with 13 shield skill.
Yeah..I've also never punished anyone for this on siege. In my opinion it's alright, it's just a screw around build any ways.
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The only potential for abuse with that build would be delaying as the last person perhaps?
I don't see a problem with that build so long as they attempt an attack as the last person.
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How about hitting through solid doors? Is that considered glitching? Not the grated kind with huge gaping holes mind you, but solid doors you cannot see through.
Well it's not as if someone can really exploit this, right? I mean, how would they know EXACTLY when to swing at the moment the other person's head is through the door? Usually it's just luck, and if you don't want to be killed through a door you can just stand as far back from the door as possible while still being able to destroy it.
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It's illegal on the ATS servers, not on the Official servers.
Something that should have been clarified earlier.
Hahaha Lorne! Its funny you finally show your true form! You were always a jerk so now you are where you belong in Fallen! Hahaha! Good to see you! I hope to slay you in battle!
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Well it's not as if someone can really exploit this, right? I mean, how would they know EXACTLY when to swing at the moment the other person's head is through the door? Usually it's just luck, and if you don't want to be killed through a door you can just stand as far back from the door as possible while still being able to destroy it.
actually its not hard at all and no the enemy doesnt have to be that close to the door, you should really pay more attention. curved swords are likely the easiest way to attack thru the doors *cough cough robert namo cough*
I can easily reproduce it if you need me to
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The only potential for abuse with that build would be delaying as the last person perhaps?
I don't see a problem with that build so long as they attempt an attack as the last person.
Not really. If you are one man vs. a clump of enemies, trying to defend a static position, you are going to get surrounded and butchered. I could see the abuse on battle mode, but honestly, it's the person that is being a douche, not wholey the build. You could just as easily evasively ride around on a fast horse the whole round.
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This whole shield issue is practically impossible for admins to differentiate between the 13 shield skill or the bug... so there shouldn't be any admin action taken against those who do have the build. That's something the devs will have to deal with if they see it as a problem. Though I do understand if some admins didn't know about this build that the invincible shield could have been viewed as a glitch or exploit.
Good to know, thanks for raising the issue.
Concerning attacking through doors; that would be an admin nightmare to moderate, so no. It's unfortunate that bugs like that take place - but I'm not going to assign admins to watching players hacking at doors the whole time. Besides, both players can hit each other through the door, so nobody is really gaining an unfair advantage.
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so 13 shield skill is cool then?
*turtles in corner*
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Not really. If you are one man vs. a clump of enemies, trying to defend a static position, you are going to get surrounded and butchered. I could see the abuse on battle mode, but honestly, it's the person that is being a douche, not wholey the build. You could just as easily evasively ride around on a fast horse the whole round.
I agree. But it should be noted that when you are the last person alive simply hiding behind an invincible shield without any attempt to retaliate or kill your opponent should be considered the same as delaying.
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I agree. But it should be noted that when you are the last person alive simply hiding behind an invincible shield without any attempt to retaliate or kill your opponent should be considered the same as delaying.
Except that isn't about the build itself, anyone else could just go hide somewhere or just run away forever, the build is fine and fun to play with and actually a great support build if played properly.
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Except that isn't about the build itself, anyone else could just go hide somewhere or just run away forever, the build is fine and fun to play with and actually a great support build if played properly.
I'm going to put this in big text, because apparently some people are missing an important part of my post.
I don't see a problem with that build so long as they attempt an attack as the last person.
I agree.