Analysis of Crpg

[Formless]

Sometimes I like to sit back and look at something and figure out what makes it tick and where will it go in the future.  These are my thoughts about Crpg, please share yours below:

Goodbye Strength Builds:

Strength builds have never been popular and after the patch they will become even less popular.  Now days there is really no point in building a str char, unless you are a die hard fan.  Strength characters reach their full potential in heavy armour and equipped with a good chunk of Iron Flesh.  Post patch heavy armour is expansive to maintain, so str players will be forced to cycle between light money making gear and heavy expensive money burning armour that makes high str builds so fun to play.  Therefore the str build will only be at its full potential only part of the time.  Furthermore the soft cap of 30 means that high str chars have to sacrifice a large number of wpf points in exchange for a few iron flesh skills that are only truly useful when wearing heavy armour.  So for these reasons sadly I suspect that str builds will become extinct.

For hard core fans of this build, make a 2 hander and grab a barmace or maul, you will do well with those. 

Hello Agility Builds:

I can definitely see this build become the dominate build in Crpg. High agility builds do not need heavy armour to be at their full potential.  In fact heavy armour might just gimp the build.   All a good high agility build needs is some light armour and a good spamming sword, (Katana's work great for this, I was also able to use the Side sword and no shield, Glaive or Long Hafted Spiked Mace works nice for polearms).    A cheap on the upkeep build that will easily make money and is at full potential at all times.  Best build for people good at blocking.

Balance Builds:

Should do okay in the post patch era, but not as well as the High Agility guys.
   
Archery:

One of the alts that I have is an archer.  From my experience Archery is in a good place right now, maybe even a tad stronger then it should be.  Its a nice build to make money with.  The only thing that is seriously out of whack is the longbow, its so slow it has become almost unusable.

Throwers:

Everyone and their pet monkey now throws,  thanks to the lack of heavy armour in the game throwing has taken a new life in Crpg and in some ways has replaced Archery as the dominate range form of combat.  Very good build for newbs to try.

2 Handers: 

Still the best.

Polearms:

The red headed step child of 2 handers.  These guys need some love.  Polearms could really use a shorter crush through weapon that is on par with damage and speed to the ridiculously overpowered bar mace.   

1 Handers:

Thanks to the nerf on armour and the throwing plague these guys are making a comeback.  I suspect there will be a new breed of sword and shield high agility guys coming along very shortly.  They should do very very well in the new Crpg. 

I would recommend that people try a lightly armoured agility build with no IF and converted skills into agility and wpf.

Calvary:

Hate cav, really really hate cav.  Its good that most heavy Cav is gone, but I assume they are simply collecting money now to come back and piss everyone else off in the near future.

HA

Hate Ha, really really hate HA.  I have an HA and playing one now is basically like playing a cav lancer but with a bow and a reticule that can fit a small house.  But HA still works well against other cav.

THE SPAM

The Spam is now reaching truly legendary proportions thanks to a nerf on armour.  Before the patch spam was still practiced but you knew that it would take more then 2 hits to put the average opponent away so you had to think and fight, block and move.  Not any more, thanks to the low level of armour in the game the spam is king.  Now days most people are put down with 1 or 2 hits, since the average opponent can be put down so quickly why waste time fighting him at all, just spam his ass down and move on.   

Post your thoughts, let me know what you think:

[Tornkik]

   

1 Handers:

Thanks to the nerf on armour and the throwing plague these guys are making a comeback.  I suspect there will be a new breed of sword and shield high agility guys coming along very shortly.  They should do very very well in the new Crpg. 

I would recommend that people try a lightly armoured agility build with no IF and converted skills into agility and wpf.

^ This is me. 

[Tritan]

How about an archer that has about 80 wpf in 2hander and 6 PS? Kind of a hybrid

[Goretooth]

str build is still here

[AirPhforce]

Sometimes I like to sit back and look at something and figure out what makes it tick and where will it go in the future.  These are my thoughts about Crpg, please share yours below:

Goodbye Strength Builds:

Strength builds have never been popular and after the patch they will become even less popular.  Now days there is really no point in building a str char, unless you are a die hard fan.  Strength characters reach their full potential in heavy armour and equipped with a good chunk of Iron Flesh.  Post patch heavy armour is expansive to maintain, so str players will be forced to cycle between light money making gear and heavy expensive money burning armour that makes high str builds so fun to play.  Therefore the str build will only be at its full potential only part of the time.  Furthermore the soft cap of 30 means that high str chars have to sacrifice a large number of wpf points in exchange for a few iron flesh skills that are only truly useful when wearing heavy armour.  So for these reasons sadly I suspect that str builds will become extinct.

For hard core fans of this build, make a 2 hander and grab a barmace or maul, you will do well with those. 

Is this a joke? With power strike, and everyone in less armor, high strength builds are able to one-shot a majority of players in the game through a block. Since you can't wear heavy armor all the time, the only good counters are high iron flesh and high strength. And because strength and PS builds give a huge boost to damage, you can afford to use a cheapo-depot weapon and put the rest of your money into great armor. Not only that, each point of Power Strike and Strength give you a solid damage boost, while each point in agi boosts speed, each point of Weapon Master has diminishing returns, and if you're getting blocked, switch to something with crushthrough and never get blocked again.  Strength beats agility COLD right now.

Hello Agility Builds:

I can definitely see this build become the dominate build in Crpg. High agility builds do not need heavy armour to be at their full potential.  In fact heavy armour might just gimp the build.   All a good high agility build needs is some light armour and a good spamming sword, (Katana's work great for this, I was also able to use the Side sword and no shield, Glaive or Long Hafted Spiked Mace works nice for polearms).    A cheap on the upkeep build that will easily make money and is at full potential at all times.  Best build for people good at blocking.

So you spam, because you know you can't kill in one hit through a block like a strength character can. It takes you longer to kill someone, you're worse at fighting more then one guy, and what do you get for it? Rapid attacks? But only slightly more rapid then the balanced guy because of the diminishing returns on WPF? And you lose ranks in PS?

Balance Builds:

Should do okay in the post patch era, but not as well as the High Agility guys.

Should do better. The WPF you gain by getting an extra 3 ranks in weapon master in an agi build amounts to very little extra spammage and A LOT of damage lost by losing 2 power strike you would get in a balanced build.


   

Archery:

One of the alts that I have is an archer.  From my experience Archery is in a good place right now, maybe even a tad stronger then it should be.  Its a nice build to make money with.  The only thing that is seriously out of whack is the longbow, its so slow it has become almost unusable.

No argument here.

Throwers:

Everyone and their pet monkey now throws,  thanks to the lack of heavy armour in the game throwing has taken a new life in Crpg and in some ways has replaced Archery as the dominate range form of combat.  Very good build for newbs to try.

Throwing has always been good and the free-respec made many people try new things, everyone decided to splash throwing since xbows don't scale with strength or anything else.

2 Handers: 

Still the best.

Sweet argument to back up your points. Oh wait there are no points nor is their an argument.

Polearms:

The red headed step child of 2 handers.  These guys need some love.  Polearms could really use a shorter crush through weapon that is on par with damage and speed to the ridiculously overpowered bar mace.   

Oh so polearms, which already have fantastic advantages in range, useability (use with a shield and still use the polearm skill, or use a lance on a horse) and you want the one thing that two-handers has over polearms as well? Three ways to play with one weapon skill wasn't enough for you? You want FOUR?

1 Handers:

Thanks to the nerf on armour and the throwing plague these guys are making a comeback.  I suspect there will be a new breed of sword and shield high agility guys coming along very shortly.  They should do very very well in the new Crpg. 

I would recommend that people try a lightly armoured agility build with no IF and converted skills into agility and wpf.

Im doing that right now and it's ass. You have no weapon verity at all. Everything is the same the only thing that changes is damage type or perhaps a tiny knockdown chance. Even with 21 agi and full Weapon Master I can't block an attack and land a hit before they block. Why? Shields are too slow. Even with 7 shields I can't have a shield that wont break in 2 hits and still be able to counter-attack. These guys need help. Shields need to be lighter and faster, so spamming a shield user actually has some risk.

Calvary:

Hate cav, really really hate cav.  Its good that most heavy Cav is gone, but I assume they are simply collecting money now to come back and piss everyone else off in the near future.

HA

Hate Ha, really really hate HA.  I have an HA and playing one now is basically like playing a cav lancer but with a bow and a reticule that can fit a small house.  But HA still works well against other cav.

Heavy cav are gone? I see Plated Charges every other game.

THE SPAM

The Spam is now reaching truly legendary proportions thanks to a nerf on armour.  Before the patch spam was still practiced but you knew that it would take more then 2 hits to put the average opponent away so you had to think and fight, block and move.  Not any more, thanks to the low level of armour in the game the spam is king.  Now days most people are put down with 1 or 2 hits, since the average opponent can be put down so quickly why waste time fighting him at all, just spam his ass down and move on.   

Post your thoughts, let me know what you think:

What game are you playing? Spam is much less now due to the WPF cap.

[Siiem]

This is all bullshit and OP knows it.

[Ashrik]

How about an archer that has about 80 wpf in 2hander and 6 PS? Kind of a hybrid

Sounds like a gimped character that is bad in archery and not nearly as fast with a 2H as they should be.

[Formless]

I guess we disagree about many things AirPhforce

Is this a joke? With power strike, and everyone in less armor, high strength builds are able to one-shot a majority of players in the game through a block. Since you can't wear heavy armor all the time, the only good counters are high iron flesh and high strength. And because strength and PS builds give a huge boost to damage, you can afford to use a cheapo-depot weapon and put the rest of your money into great armor. Not only that, each point of Power Strike and Strength give you a solid damage boost, while each point in agi boosts speed, each point of Weapon Master has diminishing returns, and if you're getting blocked, switch to something with crushthrough and never get blocked again.  Strength beats agility COLD right now.

To get the most out of str build you really need heavy armour.  Like you mentioned everyone is wearing less armour right now, that includes str people.  True you can kill most people with 1 shot.  But even with extra IF you will get taken out in 2 or 3 by a high agility guy because you are also wearing less armour.  Each IF gives you only 2 health points, the extra IF in my opinion are not worth the wpf sacrifice.  If you had good heavy armour that would magnify that advantage it would be worth it, but that is no longer the case.  But right now, equipped in low tier armour a small handful of health points ain't worth it. 

If I was a betting man in a 1 vs 1 between a high str guy and a high agility of the same skill, I would put money on the high agility guy.
What I agree with you on is that currently the best weapon for an str build are crushthrough weapons.
 

So you spam, because you know you can't kill in one hit through a block like a strength character can. It takes you longer to kill someone, you're worse at fighting more then one guy, and what do you get for it? Rapid attacks? But only slightly more rapid then the balanced guy because of the diminishing returns on WPF? And you lose ranks in PS?

Should do better. The WPF you gain by getting an extra 3 ranks in weapon master in an agi build amounts to very little extra spammage and A LOT of damage lost by losing 2 power strike you would get in a balanced build.

The Balance build will do fine post patch.  But I think agility guys have the edge.  Why?  Speed Kills and Money.  Again because of the low level of armour in the game speed is becoming crucial.  Crpg is becoming about who slices who first, who is faster on the draw.  Everyone goes down in about 2 to 3 hits, what is becoming crucial is who slices who first.   The key to high agility and making it work is good timing and blocking.  If you got those why would you go with a slower more cumbersome build.  The extra PS is not going to be that useful, you don't need it in a lightly armoured world.  What you will need is speed.

Besides most players playing balance characters will go for the most expansive armour they can afford to upkeep, barely scratching by.  While the high agility guy is most likely only wearing cloth armour or something close to it and using a Katana, they are currently piling up money.  What will they do with all that extra cash?  X-bows, Horses, throwing, maybe even heavier armour or expansive gloves? 

   
No argument here.  --> Wow we actually agree on something.

Sweet argument to back up your points. Oh wait there are no points nor is their an argument.

So much has been said about this, it would be like whipping a dead horse.

Oh so polearms, which already have fantastic advantages in range, useability (use with a shield and still use the polearm skill, or use a lance on a horse) and you want the one thing that two-handers has over polearms as well? Three ways to play with one weapon skill wasn't enough for you? You want FOUR?

Do you really need to ask.

Im doing that right now and it's ass. You have no weapon verity at all. Everything is the same the only thing that changes is damage type or perhaps a tiny knockdown chance. Even with 21 agi and full Weapon Master I can't block an attack and land a hit before they block. Why? Shields are too slow. Even with 7 shields I can't have a shield that wont break in 2 hits and still be able to counter-attack. These guys need help. Shields need to be lighter and faster, so spamming a shield user actually has some risk.

You are doing it wrong.  Try a Heater Shield and a Side Sword.  To be a good 1 hand + board guy you need a mix of knowing when to be patient and when to be very agressive.  Takes time to learn, watch Balb or Man of War both of them are very good at that.
 

Heavy cav are gone? I see Plated Charges every other game.

Not as many as before.

What game are you playing? Spam is much less now due to the WPF cap.

What game are you playing.  Spam is much more alive now then ever.  Especially in a world where everyone dies in about 2 to 3 hits.  You no longer have to fight people you can just spam them away.

[ShinySpoons]

The power of a str build is in mass clusterfucks where you maul or mace puny peasants into the ground. One on one against an equal opponent with equal gear, the agi char would most likely win.

[cmp]

so polearms, which already have fantastic advantages in range

wut

[AirPhforce]

(click to show/hide)

I guess we disagree about many things AirPhforce

To get the most out of str build you really need heavy armour.  Like you mentioned everyone is wearing less armour right now, that includes str people.  True you can kill most people with 1 shot.  But even with extra IF you will get taken out in 2 or 3 by a high agility guy because you are also wearing less armour.  Each IF gives you only 2 health points, the extra IF in my opinion is not worth the wpf sacrifice, good heavy armour would magnify that advantage so it would be worth it.  But right now, equipped in low tier armour a small handful of health points ain't worth it. 

If I was a betting man in a 1 vs 1 between a high str guy and a high agility of the same skill, I would put money on the high agility guy.
What I agree with you on is that currently the best weapon for an str build are crushthrough weapons.
 
The Balance build will do fine post patch.  But I think agility guys have the edge.  Why?  Speed Kills and Money.  Again because of the low level of armour in the game speed is becoming crucial.  Crpg is becoming about who slices who first, who is faster on the draw.  Everyone goes down in about 2 to 3 hits, what is becoming crucial is who slices who first.   The key to high agility and making it work is good timing and blocking.  If you got those why would you go with a slower more cumbersome build.  The extra PS is not going to be that useful, you don't need it in a lightly armoured world.  What you will need is speed.

Besides most players playing balance characters will go for the most expansive armour they can afford to upkeep, barely scratching by.  While the high agility guy is most likely only wearing cloth armour or something close to it and using a Katana, they are currently piling up money.  What will they do with all that extra cash?  X-bows, Horses, throwing, maybe even heavier armour or expansive gloves? 

   
No argument here.  --> Wow we actually agree on something.

So much has been said about this, it would be like whipping a dead horse.
Do you really need to ask.
You are doing it wrong.  Try a Heater Shield and a Side Sword.  To be a good 1 hand + board guy you need a mix of knowing when to be patient and when to be very agressive.  Takes time to learn, watch Balb or Man of War both of them are very good at that.
 
Not as many as before.

What game are you playing.  Spam is much more alive now then ever.  Especially in a world where everyone dies in about 2 to 3 hits.  You no longer have to fight people you can just spam them away.

Your post so awful. This is the best part.

True you can kill most people with 1 shot.  But even with extra IF you will get taken out in 2 or 3 by a high agility guy because you are also wearing less armour.

Dying in one hit versus not dying in one hit. It's huge. And why can't you wear heavy armor? Im really confused man. Really confused. One build lets you kill in one hit and die in 2 or 3, the other, die in one and kill in 2 or 3? You take the latter? The hell is wrong with you?

[Formless]

The power of a str build is in mass clusterfucks where you maul or mace puny peasants into the ground. One on one against an equal opponent with equal gear, the agi char would most likely win.

I totally agree with you, battle and chaos and clusterfucks are what str builds are best for.  The ability to kill quickly and taking tons of punishment is what str builds are amazing at.  The more confusing the battle the better for the str build. 

Unfortunately 1/2 of the kill quick and ability of taking tons of punishment formula is gimped.  To take tons of punishment you need heavy armour and right now heavy armour is so expensive to use, you can only use if for a small amount of time before going broke.  That is why I feel str builds will be very uncommon in the future. 

Which is sad cause I loved and was good at fighting in clusterfucks and I miss by ugly ass heirloomed black armour.

[AirPhforce]

I totally agree with you, battle and chaos and clusterfucks are what str builds are best for.  The ability to kill quickly and taking tons of punishment is what str builds are amazing at.  The more confusing the battle the better for the str build. 

Unfortunately 1/2 of the kill quick and ability of taking tons of punishment formula is gimped.  To take tons of punishment you need heavy armour and right now heavy armour is so expensive to use, you can only use if for a small amount of time before going broke.  That is why I feel str builds will be very uncommon in the future. 

Which is sad cause I loved and was good at fighting in clusterfucks and I miss by ugly ass heirloomed black armour.

We ran a simulation of 1000 games at random lengths between 5 minutes and 3 minutes and found that with 47,000 in gear you broke even in money. If you don't wear heavy armor lol @ u.

[ShinySpoons]

You really don't need full plate to tank with a str build. A brigandine or sarranid guard armour coupled with decent gloves will give you enough protection. Hopefully the slightly lowered armour will force str builds to be more skillful with their tanking? I.e, moving to cause glances, not running into projectiles unneccesarily, blocking occasionally etc.

For a long time my str build was only in a brigandine and mail mittens. And in appropriate areas/maps I could top scoreboards using a morningstar, maul, or for those fast buggers, a longsword. (this was at least a month or two ago)

edit-some typos

[bruce]

Sounds like a gimped character that is bad in archery and not nearly as fast with a 2H as they should be.

Meh. A bit more or a bit less wpf, matters little. As for archery, you can score hits - not as many times as archers with high wpf - with a str build which probably has 0 effective wpf after nerf due to PD and armour. And those shots still hurt, etc. I actually like my melee/archery hybrid with 7 PS & PD and 79 polearm / 119 archery wpf. It's good enough to hit targets at mid-range (and suppress other archers at longer ranges, although precise shooting at really long distances is hard) and strong enough in melee, as well (despite being still a bit slow, but meh 13 agi).