Solid Builds

[rustyspoon]

Okay, I took both your advice and tested Marathon's lighter armour suggestion first on random siege games yesterday. I felt much quicker on foot than with the mail hauberk and didn't notice being much more vulnerable than I already felt. When switching to a borrowed Light Mail and Plate (because it looks flash and only weighs .5 more than the brigandine) with a kettle hat, I was noticably slower to move, but my swings didn't seem to be affected. And I think I survived a few more hits than I did in light armour.

Maybe it's just subjective. I also tried my buddy's Espada Eslavona and was surprised how often I would actually hit. That length difference really seems to do it for me. I'm slightly miffed to lose the blunt damage and knockdown possibility, because it feels as though I glance off of armour quite regularly now, even at power strike 6. Maybe it's just my poor positioning.

As for the shield.. the most important part of a shielder, I suppose. I didn't realise how incredibly vulnerable a huscarl shield is compared to a plate covered one. I thought 400 hp should be a lot, but... it seems the shield's damage reduction plays a much greater role.

Thank you guys for taking your time to answer my pesky little questions, but here's one more

From your own experience, do you think 18/18 would give my shield noticably more durability and my weapon greater speed? Would it be worth sacrificing power strike 6 and ironflesh?

Edit: As a side-question: Is it practicable at all to try riposte against polearm and two handed weapon users? I'm trying to find some way to defend against long axe fighters without relying on a shield that'll break.

I always recommend an 18/18 build for newbies. It's a good build to use while getting the basics down before you start all the crazy stuff.

The thing with stats in this game is differences only become REALLY noticeable when you stack something. So shield 5 to 6 isn't much of a difference. 5 to 8 is a pretty big difference. As a 1-hander though, I would never drop your PS lower than 6 unless you are an agi build.

I think you are referring to chambering. Chambering is always good to practice. If you come up against a shield breaker though, I suggest putting your shield away unless you are an agi build with a durable shield. You just need to learn to manual block. Oh, and remember to block the first 2 hits before you attack since you'll probably get weapon stunned.

A few things about shields too. The plate covered will last longer against anything that isn't a shield breaker. The Huscarl will last longer against a shield breaker. Your average polearm guy with a shield breaker could probably break the plate covered in about 2 hits. The Huscarl also has better coverage. I personally don't recommend either unless you are an agi build though. Reason being that when a newbie uses one of those shields they are probably a turtler. If you turtle with a slow shield like that, people are going to circle around you easy or take advantage of their slow speed. Both of those are mitigated by using an agi build.

[Ghostie]

You're referring to an agi build, something akin to 15/21? or 12/24? I can't imagine how that would actually deal damage without a piercing or blunt weapon.

I've switched back to my warhammer from the espada and... despite it being much shorter, I feel as though I get kills more easily now. Before, the espada either bounced back or simply didn't seem to have much of an effect. Just for giggles I was trying to take down a heavily armoured afker on a siege right now, standing still, using my sword and swinging. It took me in excess of half a dozen strikes. Very sobering.

[Cyclopsided]

He indeed was. Agility shielders just aren't feasible especially in NA, Unless they have heirloomed steel picks/Warhammers.

But yeah Rusty, times have changed. 21/15 is the 'balanced build' of the times and the real middle ground of today's battlefield. 18/18 just isn't anymore, maybe in EU.
Also, when he said riposte he was  referring to manual block. And I highly suggest a shielder be good at manual blocking and take the shield off when fighting an axeman.

[Ghostie]

Also, when he said riposte he was  referring to manual block.

*She, actually

Either way, I do play on EU if I can, because my ping to the NA servers is, at times, above 100. And I get very self-conscious about latency, not that it greatly matters at my current stage of learning. But I feel as though I am making progress on the duel servers, putting away my shield and stubbornly blocking with my 1h sword. I've settled for a long Espada at the moment.

As for riposte, I was referring to the move of slashing in the direction of the incoming attack to deflect it and at the same time get my own strike in. Is that what you call chambering?
I can't seem to pull it off reliably against anything but other 1h users... the twohanders are just too damn fast, ironically.

Also, since you mentioned heirloomed gear and since I'm approaching level 30 now.. would you recommend I heirloom a weapon of choice first, or armour?

[v/onMega]

21/15 mob shielder....
With more then 60 body armor, 7 if, a decent weapon (knightly or espada) and timing....u can do good....really good :-)

[Ghostie]

Well, with my newly acquired kettle helmet, light mail and plate, mail gauntlets and chausses, I top out at 52 body armour. My IF is at 6 at the moment and I'm noticing a great change in survivability from 0 IF. I used to get two-shot by morningstars before. Now I manage to get one-shot if I run really fast into the swing

But yes, I don't think I'll want to slow myself down more than I already have. I'll keep my light set (tunic over mail, leather gloves and boots etc) and my mid-heavy set around to see which playstyle works best for me. And I'll pack a plate covered round shield unless I run into axe-heavy games.

[Cyclopsided]

Ah, you did mean chambering. My bad. I apologize for using the incorrect pronoun, but that is not going to change it from my default when used on the internet.

Also, 100+ping is awful. Play wherever you have best ping. I play with 90 ping on the official NA servers, and it sucks.

[rustyspoon]

Also, 100+ping is awful. Play wherever you have best ping. I play with 90 ping on the official NA servers, and it sucks.

That's one thing I don't understand about the official servers. I get 20 ping on the community servers and 80 on the official and I live in St. Louis. 

My ping should be 40-50 at least.

[Ghostie]

I apologize for using the incorrect pronoun, but that is not going to change it from my default when used on the internet.

It's quite alright, I don't go out of my way to point it out, unless I'm encountering a community I plan to invest some time in.

I'm also looking at the top end weapons/shields at the moment and, since this is a build thread, I'm wondering if I should stick with the plate covered round shield as my standard siege equipment along with a sword, use the heavy kite, or settle for the huscarl once I get my last agility point in. While the plate shield lasts longer against the average opponent I face, it's noticably slower than the others. Also, do you think a sword with 97 speed is significantly slower than a 99 speed blade?

My options at the moment are the Long Espada or the Knightly Arming Sword as suggested by v/onMega. I'm also carrying a warhammer, in case I need to crack a tin can and a Light One Handed Battle Axe for meeting other shielders.

[Cyclopsided]

Any onehander with 96+ speed is fast enough to hit an enemy with, assuming you swing on them right after you hear their attack bounce off your shield. Luckily that is pretty much EVERY onehanded weapon.
You've got it pretty well with those weapons. Choose the espada if you like to thrust a lot, otherwise use the knightly arming sword.
Again, weapon choice is play-style. You'll figure out which one works best for you.

As for the shield? Plate covered round shield is alright. Huscarl is amazing, but it is 2 slots. By no means is the plate covered round shield bad, but if you ever encounter that 10 PS strength build using a pole axe? It is going to die in 2-3 hits. But so is pretty much every other shield, so you'll have to live with that.

[Ghostie]

I think I'll go by your recommendations and work with the Knightly Arming Sword. I have no particular preference towards any attack type, but I find myself swinging more out of convenience than thrusting. Maybe that's subjective, too. Against pole axe users I'll simply have to settle for manual blocking/chambering with my shield on the back.

Thank you for the advice thus far!

I wonder if I might strain your patience some more, however, because now I'm looking at the various possibilities and builds for a cavalry lancer / foot polearm user.

Assuming I'd like that alt to be capable with polearms on foot and very capable on a horse in open maps (I tend to play siege a lot these days, with just some battle mode maps here and there), what would you suggest I use, both build and equipment wise? Would I want to go for a hybrid foot soldier and rider build, or focus on either strictly?

[Spawny]

Any onehander with 96+ speed is fast enough to hit an enemy with, assuming you swing on them right after you hear their attack bounce off your shield. Luckily that is pretty much EVERY onehanded weapon.
You've got it pretty well with those weapons. Choose the espada if you like to thrust a lot, otherwise use the knightly arming sword.
Again, weapon choice is play-style. You'll figure out which one works best for you.

As for the shield? Plate covered round shield is alright. Huscarl is amazing, but it is 2 slots. By no means is the plate covered round shield bad, but if you ever encounter that 10 PS strength build using a pole axe? It is going to die in 2-3 hits. But so is pretty much every other shield, so you'll have to live with that.

A good way to die as a shielder is to try and hit a 2h straigth after his first sideswing. The majority of 2h's will open with a left-right swing. You block it and try to hit back. As you do that, they run to your right side (left side from the 2h's POV) and do a right-left swing. In doing this, they will ALWAYS hit before you hit them, regardless of your swing of choice and wether or not you turned to keep facing them.
Always block twice in a row vs a 2h.

Anyway, if you ever go on the duelserver, drop the shield. It will only help to get you killed faster, as it slows you down considerably.

In sieges, shielders are king imo. Get a short weapon and they start dropping like flies.

About the weapons though, I wouldn't use a long espada eslavona with a shield. It looks silly. On top of that, the strongest attack on the espada, it's thrust, is horribly slow and predictable when you have a shield equipped.

[Cyclopsided]

I completely disagree with you spawny. A 2hander can only double swing on the 1hander if the 1h can't follow the enemy's movements. [keep the enemy in the center of your screen or turn into your attack, either workks]
I ALWAYS swing back and NEVER get hit out of turn. I'm sorry, but needing to alwaysever do that means you have a mistake in your footwork that you need to fix.
Blocking twice is only needed if your weapon is stunned, but that doesn't really happen with a shield... And that is not exclusive to 1 handed swords.
While learning your footwork? You may need to block twice. Every time you die though, you'll see where you went wrong.


To ghostie:

(click to show/hide)

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 50

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 5
    Shield: 3
    Athletics: 7
    Riding: 7
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 7

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 163
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1
note: pretty fragile, but it will be a fast lancer. Won't do crazy damage at all but you will be fast and strike like an eagle.
Good as support on foot, fast. Again, won't take many hits to die though.

(click to show/hide)

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 24
    Agility: 15
    Hit points: 59

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 8
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 5
    Riding: 5
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 5

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 146
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1
Note: No shield, but much more dmg, hp. Can use heavy horses just barely. Great on foot. Lances will hurt people.
TBH, every build might as well be 24/15  (+ - 3 to either agi/str) in this game right now They are quite empirically the most effective.

[Spawny]

I completely disagree with you spawny. A 2hander can only double swing on the 1hander if the 1h can't follow the enemy's movements. [keep the enemy in the center of your screen or turn into your attack, either workks]
I ALWAYS swing back and NEVER get hit out of turn. I'm sorry, but needing to alwaysever do that means you have a mistake in your footwork that you need to fix.
Blocking twice is only needed if your weapon is stunned, but that doesn't really happen with a shield... And that is not exclusive to 1 handed swords.
While learning your footwork? You may need to block twice. Every time you die though, you'll see where you went wrong.

Well, you can hit first with a right-left swing in the situation I described, but that will just glance (even with a steel pick or warhammer). If you keep him in the centre of your screen, he's running away from your left-right hit, so you have a negative speedbonus, which will make it glance. Overhead is too slow, stab is too slow.
You can turn into your swings, but I consider that a bit more of an advanced dueling technique and not something you should start with as a shielder.

On that note, maybe you can give me some advice on that part. I've been practising that on the duel server yesterday and I find it very hard to turn into my swings as deep as others do without losing track of the duel.

[Ghostie]

I completely disagree with you spawny. A 2hander can only double swing on the 1hander if the 1h can't follow the enemy's movements. [keep the enemy in the center of your screen or turn into your attack, either workks]
I ALWAYS swing back and NEVER get hit out of turn. I'm sorry, but needing to alwaysever do that means you have a mistake in your footwork that you need to fix.
Blocking twice is only needed if your weapon is stunned, but that doesn't really happen with a shield... And that is not exclusive to 1 handed swords.
While learning your footwork? You may need to block twice. Every time you die though, you'll see where you went wrong.

Well, I immediately put Spawny's and your suggestions to use on the EU duel server a few minutes ago and I found myself struggling to keep my duel partner in the centre of my screen, if they had any more speed than me. I'm doing my very best to analyse what I'm doing wrong, but so far my only conclusion is: I'm reacting too slowly. I hear the shield absorb a swing, immediately strike with my own knightly arming sword and find myself with a blade in my face a moment later. Rinse repeat when I block twice. Some 2h wielders are just too mind bogglingly fast with their chunk of heavy metal. I got outswung by a flamberge!

Also, I have no idea how to turn into my swings. Every time I try this, my character stands still, performs the animation in the direction it started while I flick my mouse around wildly and hoping for profit. I managed to turn my mouse so quickly that I was looking at my character's face as she did a left to right swing straight into the camera. Unless that's just a glitch on my end and I'm actually spinning on everyone else's screen, I'm just at a loss.

As for the horsie suggestions... I think I'm more inclined to try the 24/15, but is there any way I could squeeze in riding 6, to use a courser? Or would you recommend against it, entirely? I am looking at future upkeep, after all, and on paper the heavy horses don't look as appealing to me as they maybe should. Conversely, if I went with the other fragile but agile build, should I be looking at an arabian warhorse? I cannot determine what is more important for polearm cavalry: turning or speed.