Author Topic: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc  (Read 2157 times)

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Offline Iggore

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Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« on: June 25, 2011, 09:09:47 am »
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Hello I was in battle the other day when I had been walking around and sammael had one shotted me with his masterwork knightly arming sword which does about
34 Cut dmg , it was a left swing to the face and my hero has
27 strength
9 Ironflesh, which roughly translates to 80 Hitpoints while using the dmg calculator he has
15 Strength,
5 powerstrike which means the max aomunt of damage he was going to do was around 55damage


So all that done and said I was wanting to know how was it possible that Sammael was able to kill me in one hit? if he only does 55 dmg max! and I had 80 hp why was he able to one shot me ? I overheard their are different rules for headshots if anyone would mind explaining those, suppousely there are factors such as Movementspeed & criticals of something like 1.2 ? I'm not all too sure but someone whos very good at mechanics please and thank you reply to my question :D!

Offline Sammael

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 09:33:23 am »
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http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,7997.msg125358.html#msg125358

I'd trust this quote:

Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 19, 2011, 15:54:54

   
Quote
Damage depends on skeleton bone hit, not on generic "regions".

    head bone: melee 120%, ranged 210%
    thigh/calf bones: 90%
    every other bone: 100%

Using the melee dmg calc, I'd do about 50 dmg to an unarmored target, so about 60 dmg to your face. Factor in the movement speed bonus, as we were running at one another, and it might get the damage to the one shot point. Movement speed bonus damage is something that is beyond me to calculate, however.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 09:37:50 am by Sammael »

Offline Dezilagel

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2011, 10:47:17 am »
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Movespeed bonus is huge, I regulary one-shot tincans with my poleaxe due to it.

if you have a weapon with decent stab, and you and your opponent are moving towards eachother, it's gonna do massive damage.
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Offline Paul

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 01:21:25 pm »
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Beside speed bonus, there is also the "holding" bonus that comes from keeping the weapon in ready position for some time. When a quick swing has a factor of 1.0, it goes (lineary) up to a maximum factor of 1.5 for holding exactly 0.6s and goes lineary down to a minimum of 1.2 when being held for longer.

Knowing this particularly useful for predicting weapon stun and overcoming the soak of heavy armors with a weaker weapon.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 01:51:00 pm by Paul »

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2011, 01:27:55 pm »
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Beside speed bonus, there is also the "holding" bonus that comes from keeping the weapon in ready position for some time. When a quick swing has a factor of 1.0, it goes (lineary) up to a maximum factor of 1.5 for holding exactly 0.6s and goes lineary down to a minimum of 1.2 when being held for longer.

Knowing this a particularly useful for predicting weapon stun and overcoming the soak of heavy armors with a weaker weapon.

This.

Very useful when backstabbing^^
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Offline Sammael

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2011, 05:36:57 pm »
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Beside speed bonus, there is also the "holding" bonus that comes from keeping the weapon in ready position for some time. When a quick swing has a factor of 1.0, it goes (lineary) up to a maximum factor of 1.5 for holding exactly 0.6s and goes lineary down to a minimum of 1.2 when being held for longer.

Knowing this particularly useful for predicting weapon stun and overcoming the soak of heavy armors with a weaker weapon.

Oh, excellent. I didn't know this. Thanks!

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 05:39:19 pm »
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Beside speed bonus, there is also the "holding" bonus that comes from keeping the weapon in ready position for some time. When a quick swing has a factor of 1.0, it goes (lineary) up to a maximum factor of 1.5 for holding exactly 0.6s and goes lineary down to a minimum of 1.2 when being held for longer.

Knowing this particularly useful for predicting weapon stun and overcoming the soak of heavy armors with a weaker weapon.


What do you mean by holding?

1.) The amount of time you press down on the attack button

2.) The amount of time you hold the attack AFTER it locks into the end of the "attack ready" animation?

Basically, should we count the time it takes to get into a ready position, or no?
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Offline Peasant_Woman

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 06:52:39 pm »
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What do you mean by holding?

1.) The amount of time you press down on the attack button

2.) The amount of time you hold the attack AFTER it locks into the end of the "attack ready" animation?

Basically, should we count the time it takes to get into a ready position, or no?

The amount of time you hold the attack in the 'ready' position.
I made a video to illustrate this a while ago. The characters shout tells you how close you were to the 'sweet spot' of bonus damage on a held attack also, allowing you to gauge it better;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk9WjVZvm5E
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 06:53:49 pm by Peasant_Woman »
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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 07:06:57 pm »
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What do you mean by holding?

2.) The amount of time you hold the attack AFTER it locks into the end of the "attack ready" animation?

Basically, should we count the time it takes to get into a ready position, or no?
well if you hold the attack for some time and let it go, your character yells, thats the sign that you do more damage :mrgreen:
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Offline marco1391

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 08:20:13 pm »
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The amount of time you hold the attack in the 'ready' position.
I made a video to illustrate this a while ago. The characters shout tells you how close you were to the 'sweet spot' of bonus damage on a held attack also, allowing you to gauge it better;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk9WjVZvm5E
ehr could you tell me where are those destructibles target to try the damage output of your pg? I sometimes see them in some maps but if I try to hit them I always get ''delivered 0 damage''

to Iggore: in attition to what said Paul if you are standing still and your enemy is doing the same you can also get a speed bonus from 20% to about 35% by simply turning your pg in the same direction of the swing
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 08:30:29 pm by marco1391 »

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2011, 08:24:46 pm »
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The amount of time you hold the attack in the 'ready' position.
I made a video to illustrate this a while ago. The characters shout tells you how close you were to the 'sweet spot' of bonus damage on a held attack also, allowing you to gauge it better;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk9WjVZvm5E

Awesome <3
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Offline PieParadox

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2011, 08:52:20 pm »
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Someone explain speed bonus now... Do you only get it from running towards eachother and stabbing? How to maximize?

Offline Iggore

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2011, 09:17:12 pm »
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Someone explain speed bonus now... Do you only get it from running towards eachother and stabbing? How to maximize?

was just about to post that, how does that speed bonus work? also if its a swing does the arc have any factor in speed?

Offline Jarlek

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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2011, 11:05:31 pm »
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Well speed bonus is a % increase or decrease of your damage that depends on your and your opponents movement relative to the strike. For the example, let's say we have a dude who does consistently 100 damage (so it is easy to calculate).

If he stands still and his opponent stand still and they both face each other squarely, then there will be a speed bonus of 0% and he will do 100 damage, no matter the attack direction.

If he is standing still and the opponent is running towards him and he does a stab he gets a high speed bonus. Let's say +50% speed bonus. He will then do 150 damage to the opponent.

If the opponent is standing still and he is running forward he will get the same bonus (if they run at the same speed of course. Someone walking will give less speed bonus than someone running), which is +50% and he will again do 150 damage with the stab.

If they both are running towards each other then both their speeds are added to the equation and he gets a speed bonus of +100% and will do 200 damage.

Now speed bonus also works on the sideswings but a bit different. If the opponent runs towards him and he does a left swing then he will get a speed bonus but it will be less than for a stab. This is because the stab is in the direction they are moving towards each other, while the left sideswing is a left to right direction. Thus it will be normally lower, for example +25%, and the damage would be 125.

But if the opponent was coming from the right, running right past him, and he did a left sideswing, than that would again give him a boost, I would guess somewhere around 50-70%. Not quite sure here with the numbers but somewhere around there I believe.

Now what if the opponent is backpedaling while our guy stands still. The speed bonus would then be away from our guy and go into the negative. Since backpedaling is slower than running it would be around -25% damage and he would do a total of 75 damage.

Now if the opponent is facing away and running (a -50% since he is at full speed) AND you are backpedaling (since away from him -25%) you would get a speed bonus of -75% and do a total of 25 damage. This way you can also use speed bonus defensively, reducing the damage you take. Also speed bonus comes before the armour reduces (it affects the raw damage of the attack) so if you reduce the damage and have high armour, you can easily negate all of the damage.

Also if you are running towards him and he is running away, the relative speed between you will be 0 and you will get a 0% speed bonus, doing 100 damage.

Looking back this might be a bit confusing so just to make the main point again. Sooo, TL;DR: If they move INTO your attack then you do more damage and if you run the way you are attacking you also do more damage. If he runs AWAY from your attack then you do less damage and if you run opposite of the direction you are attacking.

Also all the numbers are just random. I doubt they are EXACTLY those speed bonuses, but the relation between them (like two running towards each other is double of one running towards a standing) I believe is right. I think the actual speed bonuses are much higher, a charging horse with normal speed have about +200% speed bonus, at least in SP. This is why they do so much damage, although it works both ways.
If someone have the actual numbers then please come with them, I would love to see them too.

Also there are other factors that change the damage. Like when in the animation you hit, how long the attack is held, where you hit, armour, damage type etc. If you want to understand speed bonus more I suggest you go play Single Player. Whenever you hit someone you will see how much damage you did and the speed bonus for it. That's how I learned how to move to get the most out of my attacks. Although I still suck at blocking :(
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Re: Headshots: Critical dmg, etc
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2011, 12:21:23 am »
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Well speed bonus is a % increase or decrease of your damage that depends on your and your opponents movement relative to the strike. For the example, let's say we have a dude who does consistently 100 damage (so it is easy to calculate).

If he stands still and his opponent stand still and they both face each other squarely, then there will be a speed bonus of 0% and he will do 100 damage, no matter the attack direction.

If he is standing still and the opponent is running towards him and he does a stab he gets a high speed bonus. Let's say +50% speed bonus. He will then do 150 damage to the opponent.

If the opponent is standing still and he is running forward he will get the same bonus (if they run at the same speed of course. Someone walking will give less speed bonus than someone running), which is +50% and he will again do 150 damage with the stab.

If they both are running towards each other then both their speeds are added to the equation and he gets a speed bonus of +100% and will do 200 damage.

Now speed bonus also works on the sideswings but a bit different. If the opponent runs towards him and he does a left swing then he will get a speed bonus but it will be less than for a stab. This is because the stab is in the direction they are moving towards each other, while the left sideswing is a left to right direction. Thus it will be normally lower, for example +25%, and the damage would be 125.

But if the opponent was coming from the right, running right past him, and he did a left sideswing, than that would again give him a boost, I would guess somewhere around 50-70%. Not quite sure here with the numbers but somewhere around there I believe.

Now what if the opponent is backpedaling while our guy stands still. The speed bonus would then be away from our guy and go into the negative. Since backpedaling is slower than running it would be around -25% damage and he would do a total of 75 damage.

Now if the opponent is facing away and running (a -50% since he is at full speed) AND you are backpedaling (since away from him -25%) you would get a speed bonus of -75% and do a total of 25 damage. This way you can also use speed bonus defensively, reducing the damage you take. Also speed bonus comes before the armour reduces (it affects the raw damage of the attack) so if you reduce the damage and have high armour, you can easily negate all of the damage.

Also if you are running towards him and he is running away, the relative speed between you will be 0 and you will get a 0% speed bonus, doing 100 damage.

Looking back this might be a bit confusing so just to make the main point again. Sooo, TL;DR: If they move INTO your attack then you do more damage and if you run the way you are attacking you also do more damage. If he runs AWAY from your attack then you do less damage and if you run opposite of the direction you are attacking.

Also all the numbers are just random. I doubt they are EXACTLY those speed bonuses, but the relation between them (like two running towards each other is double of one running towards a standing) I believe is right. I think the actual speed bonuses are much higher, a charging horse with normal speed have about +200% speed bonus, at least in SP. This is why they do so much damage, although it works both ways.
If someone have the actual numbers then please come with them, I would love to see them too.

Also there are other factors that change the damage. Like when in the animation you hit, how long the attack is held, where you hit, armour, damage type etc. If you want to understand speed bonus more I suggest you go play Single Player. Whenever you hit someone you will see how much damage you did and the speed bonus for it. That's how I learned how to move to get the most out of my attacks. Although I still suck at blocking :(
if u still suck at blocking play SP without autoblock :P