Author Topic: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)  (Read 15958 times)

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Offline icejaff

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2011, 07:34:28 am »
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No sword no matter how its made can cut through plate armor, FUCK OFF

Thats plain bullshit, armor in Europe kept going heavier and heavier.

**Warning*** Link free of bullshit and may contradict some of the views expressed in the original post, but since its bullshit anyways, noone care http://web.ceu.hu/medstud/manual/SRM/weapons.htm ***Warning***

I have never seen a wooden sword cut through plate armour?
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Offline Bobthehero

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2011, 07:38:09 am »
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What the hell are you on about? Obviously wooden sword wont do shit...
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Offline Safavid

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2011, 08:36:57 am »
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It is said about the Persian Damascus Steel: "A true Damascus sword is able to cut through another Sword, armor and a head at the same time, with one simple swing, and it cut them like butter... there's nothing a damascus sword can't cut through"

... but it never say what happen when two damascus sword crash together. :)
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Offline Loar Avel

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2011, 10:27:01 am »
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There lying! Or not...  :)

In fact, if one don't know how to parry properly, and parry with the edge of his sword, then, one will break his sword.
for this kind of result, damacus sword or not  :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8UeKcsE3Nw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hy_A9vjp_s#t=5m55s


If, you don't wan't this, then...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtNZQBc4RpE&feature=related


Although Damacus steel, is a famous one (and "true Damascus sword" were very good), the principe of it were also used by romain, celt and germain (I've found the date of 300 BC to 1700 AD, but I'm not an expert so...), it's not something uncommun, in the end, and before forgeting how to make damacus steel, we were making even rifle with these technique.


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Offline Siiem

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2011, 12:21:15 pm »
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It is said about the Persian Damascus Steel: "A true Damascus sword is able to cut through another Sword, armor and a head at the same time, with one simple swing, and it cut them like butter... there's nothing a damascus sword can't cut through"

... but it never say what happen when two damascus sword crash together. :)

 :lol:

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2011, 10:13:11 pm »
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Then the sword which's center of mass is closer to Mekka will prevail.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 10:14:12 pm by Paul »

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2011, 01:00:43 am »
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Another islamic propaganda thread from this guy
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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2011, 09:56:54 am »
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Another islamic propaganda thread from this guy

Lol, look at his profile:

Personal Text: "Allahu Ekber!"
Age: 38
Location: USA

It kind of.......fits the "profile".
Do you honestly think you have any sort of moral authority, Reyiz? Go genocide some more armenians and deny it ever happened, please, and stay in the middle east.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2011, 02:35:11 pm »
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More middle-eastern themed armor would be nice, not to mention there's a lot of cool models out there in other mods. But since this has already been derailed, I'll just keep it going.

Anyways, these areas were already rich in knowledge, technology, medicine, etc, before Islam ever got there. I mean, the entire area is nicknamed "The craddle of civilization" for fuck's sake. Let's be honest, the arabs who conquered for example Sassanid persia were pretty much a grouping of various desert tribes. They were not a civilization on par with the Persians, Egyptians and others on many levels. It'd be like saying the Mongols were responsable for every single innovation in the regions they invaded. They were an amazingly efficient war machine, but at the start of their spread they were not a "civilization" per say. They mostly got that from the populations they conquered.
Don't think this is just some basic anti-islamic prejudice or anything, even in their own records of the early invasions it is one of the images they use over and over, the pure, humble, unsullied by civilization, rough and manly arabs beating the effiminate, soft, spoiled by the easy life city dwellers. They pretty much had the same image of "civilization" as the Mongols did.
So I don't see why all those developments are attributed to Islam when the areas they came from were already old, prosperous, mighty civilizations before they got conquered. If Sassanid persia had managed to beat back the invaders from the south, would they have simply stagnated without the guiding light of Islam, or would the inertia from the already accumulated knowledge, infrastructure and peoples of the empire gone on to produce the same results, if not better ones? How exactly do you quantify Islam's effect on the academic/scientific accomplishements of the area when universities, libraries and technological/cultural innovations were an ongoing process which already existed long before the religion was ever present, and one which for sure was not a component of the "civilization" that created it?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 03:21:36 pm by Oberyn »
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Offline Blondin

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2011, 04:04:06 pm »
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More middle-eastern themed armor would be nice, not to mention there's a lot of cool models out there in other mods. But since this has already been derailed, I'll just keep it going.

Anyways, these areas were already rich in knowledge, technology, medicine, etc, before Islam ever got there. I mean, the entire area is nicknamed "The craddle of civilization" for fuck's sake. Let's be honest, the arabs who conquered for example Sassanid persia were pretty much a grouping of various desert tribes. They were not a civilization on par with the Persians, Egyptians and others on many levels. It'd be like saying the Mongols were responsable for every single innovation in the regions they invaded. They were an amazingly efficient war machine, but at the start of their spread they were not a "civilization" per say. They mostly got that from the populations they conquered.
Don't think this is just some basic anti-islamic prejudice or anything, even in their own records of the early invasions it is one of the images they use over and over, the pure, humble, unsullied by civilization, rough and manly arabs beating the effiminate, soft, spoiled by the easy life city dwellers. They pretty much had the same image of "civilization" as the Mongols did.
So I don't see why all those developments are attributed to Islam when the areas they came from were already old, prosperous, mighty civilizations before they got conquered. If Sassanid persia had managed to beat back the invaders from the south, would they have simply stagnated without the guiding light of Islam, or would the inertia from the already accumulated knowledge, infrastructure and peoples of the empire gone on to produce the same results, if not better ones? How exactly do you quantify Islam's effect on the academic/scientific accomplishements of the area when universities, libraries and technological/cultural innovations were an ongoing process which already existed long before the religion was ever present, and one which for sure was not a component of the "civilization" that created it?

+1 except at this time, islam was an open religion in search for knowledge, may be it didn't contribute to development of research and culture, but this did not prevent like the Inquisition/Catholicism, which rather provided obscurantism.
It was a great civilization and his religion was islam (islam didn't make the civilization).

Offline Safavid

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2011, 09:28:56 pm »
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I am ethnically Persian with some Azeri mixed in and my faith is Islam.  When it comes to Islam and Science...the faith is the unifying factor of Scientific progress.  The knowledge of Persia and Byzantium was great in it's own right, however neither shared their 'secrets' with the other.  Zoroastrian Persia vs. Christian Byzantium fought for ages for over 500 years.  It was a stalemate...until Islam came and unified them into one nation instead of two tribes.  Their science, math, technology, etc. became one...Islamic...no longer was it Persian, Roman, Arab, etc.  It was one nation, one faith, one science, etc.  No longer existed divisions...until again Pre-Islamic racism began and created damage.  The same thing is happening in the USA.  The USA is based on Islamic ideals of multi-culturalism, however the right wing nuts are destroying that unity and creating havoc.  The failure of the Islamic world is the same failure the USA may face if the right wing nuts are allowed to destroy our precious multi-culturalism and unified faith in God. 

The Persians and Byzantines existed side by side for ages...but there was no progress until Islam came (not Arabs but Islam, they are two different things).  Islam means submission to the peace, harmony, and progress of the "One God" of the Torah, Bible and Quran.  It is a continuation of the Abrahamic faiths and the Quran is called "The Final Testament".  What Prophet Adam started...Prophet Muhammad finished.  It is said when the Mahdi comes, he will be aided by Jesus to fight the evil of the Anti-Christ (Dajjal).  The Dajjal could be from anyplace, any race, and may not even be a person, could be an ideology of pure materialism and other concepts based on Satanic worldviews. 

If it was not for Islam, there would be no advanced civilization in Europe or the USA.  When the Islamic world was the America of it's time, Europe lived in the Amazon Jungle.  One day when the Western world collapses just like the Islamic world, the group that takes over (probably Chinese) will look at us in the West as inferior and backwards because we no longer will have the light of progress that was given to us by God. 
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Offline Safavid

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2011, 11:43:42 pm »
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To those who their civilization is collapsing due to the lack of education: http://youtu.be/D-n2BoPE2GE
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2011, 12:31:10 am »
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Yeah, there's not much to discuss if your assertion is that scientific achievement happens through the grace of god. It's your point of view, whatever, my point of view is that you are a victim of ridiculous propaganda, but don't take it personally, I tend to think the same of any unrelentingly religious people. I'm not an atheist incidentally, just agnostic.
Also I don't understand why some people feel they have to bring everything back to their own origins. It's like some afrocentric historians trying to take credit for the entire history of Egypt just because there were a couple of late Nubian dynasties. The way you're painting this "unification" of Islam is very generous, considering how quickly the caliphates split and warred with each other, and I'm not even going to get into that whole Sunni/Shia schism, which had nothing to do with "pre-islamic racism" as far as I know.

"The Persians and Byzantines existed side by side for ages...but there was no progress until Islam came"

Really? There were no innovations, libraries, scholars or academics of any kind until Islam came? That's kind of exactly what I'm disputing. What proof do you have for this exactly?

"If it was not for Islam, there would be no advanced civilization in Europe or the USA.  When the Islamic world was the America of it's time, Europe lived in the Amazon Jungle.  One day when the Western world collapses just like the Islamic world, the group that takes over (probably Chinese) will look at us in the West as inferior and backwards because we no longer will have the light of progress that was given to us by God."

And this is really the crux behind your reasonings. You have a massive chip on your shoulder because you believe the West looks down on Islamic countries as backwards savages (not entirely untrue, but idiots are a resource heavily present anywhere humans exist). So you respond in kind. Personally I wouldn't talk about education when you quite clearly believe in some prophesized coming Apocalypse. I wonder how your fellow Islamic brothers feel about your fervent belief in the coming of the Mahdi, by the way... seems like a very specific belief for someone preaching Islamic unity( I know I said I wasn't getting into the Sunni/Shia split, but I lied :3).

Knowledge and "science" is a chain, that Islamic societies were an important link at one point in time wasn't due to an all powerfull deity's will, though of course I can see why you would see it that way. We might as well grant that God apparently favored the Romans for quite some time before them, and the Phoenicians, and the Greeks, and the Persians, and the Medians, and the Assysirans, stretching all the way back to the dawn of civilization, despite the fact that few of them were Abrahamic or even monotheistic faiths. How did God's will play into the rise of the West then? Obviously if we surpassed what was accomplished even in that glorious moment in time when it was all "one nation, one faith, one science" it is because God was with us? Is God with the Chinese now? Was God with the Aztecs, then with the Spanish?
I realize this is a futile conversation since we're approaching it from two completely different points of view. These are interesting historical facts, but I think you're approaching them with a lot of confirmation bias, because they are more a political/religious statement than a historical one for you.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 12:47:52 am by Oberyn »
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Offline Blondin

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Re: Persian Armor: Safavid Period (Shia Islamic)
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2011, 02:15:41 am »
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Again i agree with Oberyn, historically one could say that human civilization has needed religion to rise spiritually and morally, however it was also necessary for man to be detached from religion to allow his thirst for knowledge to rise, exceed the limits and go even further.

However, i guess everyone will stay on his ideas and principles, and the discussion will be sterile, more it's not the subject of the thread,
i'm all for new armors of persian or arabian styles, but the problem is still the same we need to give models (with LoD) to devs if we want something, and even i'm not sure this will be implemented, i remember some thread on old TW forum with some nice hoplite armors and weapons.
The discussion then turn to historical accuracy, but i see cRPG battles where everybody can wear what he wants without any accuracy in the style, so add all the armor and weapon this will not change the general atmosphere  :)