Poll

Would you like to see more open plains maps in rotation?

Yes
54 (58.7%)
No
29 (31.5%)
I'm a nub
9 (9.8%)

Total Members Voted: 92

Voting closed: August 19, 2011, 12:42:23 am

Author Topic: Open Plains  (Read 10868 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Overdriven

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 828
  • Infamy: 223
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Great Khans
  • Game nicks: GK_Overdriven
Open Plains
« on: June 18, 2011, 01:34:40 pm »
+2
Ok for the sake of the poll I'll summarise the argument and split it off from what I originally posted:

The argument is that:
1. More flat (only slight hills) maps that allow you to see the enemy directly would promote more teamwork i.e. cavalry and infantry formations. Resulting in big epic battles. This is achievable simply by a couple of guys taking charge in each team.

2. It provides more variation. Currently we have village camp maps, hill camp maps, town maps and the very occasional open map. Adding a few more open plains would simply increase the variation and there would be something for everyone. You'd have your street brawls as well as your mass tactic battles.

3. It would help promote cRPG for pubbies to be able to see that it isn't just a nub server hacking and slashing at each other 1vs1 all the time. You can go to native for that. Teamwork is a big part of cRPG (else there wouldn't be so many clans) and it should be shown off even in pubby.

4. By voting no, it can be considered that you are voting against such variation for whatever reason. I am not arguing that all maps should be like this, merely that there should be a few more in there. As it is currently sorely lacking. For those fearing a cav rampage, if you end up in one of those maps, take charge of the infantry and organise them, that way you have nothing to fear.

If you want, read the rest but that is the basic summary of what I propose.

Vote away!

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ok before a lot of you come in here and shout this down, listen to the argument.

I would like to propose that the servers have a lot more open plains, flatter maps. Here are the reasonings:

1. It promotes teamwork. This morning on eu 1 we had an open plains map, completely flat, possibly the first I've ever seen in rotation. It also happens to be the first time in CRPG pubby that I've ever seen teamwork with 100 people. On both teams the infantry banded together, formed shield walls and slowly approached each other. The cavalry took up positions on the flanks and covered the infantry in the advance before finally charging eachother. It was well organised and what a real battle should feel like. Honestly the only thing that threw this off was the appearence of flags one round, so both teams had to charge the flags down.

I feel that the amount of town maps and village maps simply don't promote teamwork. They are hack and slash maps designed for individual fighting. I have never ever seen team work done on any scale on those maps. An open plains map, with no spots to camp, requires that a team works together or else die.

2. I feel that open organised battles should be what M&B is about. We have enough members of various groups in order to form some sort of organisational team work, even with pubbys. On open plains maps people listen because they know they have to. The result is truly epic large scale battles rather than crappy street brawls and everyone who played in the one this morning said they wished their were more, flat open plains maps. Both infantry and cavalry said this. So no it wasn't just cav rampaging.

I understand the possibilties of this being difficult when there are a smaller number of people on. But in a battle server that regularly tops 100 people, I feel that the village maps ect are simply too small and cramped. They don't promote team work, simply camping and individualality.

3. It would attract more people to CRPG if they could see that battles are regularly organised and not just individual hacking and slashing. Making this mod more popular can only be a good thing and will prolong the life span of it. Not everyone will want to play strategus (if it eventually appears) in order to feel some sort of teamwork.


I know there will be some players who come in here and immediately shoot this down because I'm GK and they think I'm just a cav player trying to get maps for cav to own. Well I'm not. The infantry actually did incredibly well against the cav today, and there were some very good, regular cav players on the sever. Each team had around 20 cav and 30 infantry. So it was relatively balanced. Consider this as a proper possibility. I'm growing tired of endless street brawls and bad village maps. I'm not saying get rid of them entirely, there should be town maps. But there should be more open, flat plains maps (not the ones with giant hills for people to sit on and camp). CRPG should be about teamwork and epic battles.

EDIT:

Not the only situation as well. Last night a similar situation occurred...you guessed it, on an open plains map (albeit with a big hill). But because we had lots of GK on, the cav banded together. The infantry then realised what we were doing and it resulted in both teams switching to teamwork. In almost every battle there's a good number of one group. Whether it's GK, Guards, Risen, Shogunate ect ect. If some just step up and take a little responsibility, then great battles can occur on these open maps.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 01:39:11 am by Overdriven »

Offline SkyrayFox

  • Noble
  • **
  • Renown: 19
  • Infamy: 4
  • cRPG Player
  • Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!
    • View Profile
  • IRC nick: SkyrayFox
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2011, 02:17:09 pm »
0
I agree, I think everyone who played today and yesterday on that map had lots of fun.
Almost every round we had great cavalry charges and organized infantry forming shield walls and working together.
As long as we keep a good balance between open and town maps I'm for it.

Offline Tavuk_Bey

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 409
  • Infamy: 233
  • cRPG Player
  • herrroo, my näym iz bokkkseee änd i'm fukken ugry
    • View Profile
  • Faction: bashibazouk, the official jihad clan
  • Game nicks: tavuk
  • IRC nick: Minister of Shitstorm
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2011, 04:28:07 pm »
0
ok if number of cav players per team gets a limit
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


roast and roast again until lambs become kebab

Offline Torp

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 66
  • Infamy: 12
  • cRPG Player
  • Do evil to others before they do evil to you
    • View Profile
  • Faction: The Fallen Brigade
  • Game nicks: Fallen_Kenkyaku
  • IRC nick: Torp
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2011, 04:33:21 pm »
0
ok if number of cav players per team gets a limit

lol? so when a cav wants to play, he gets 'You can't join because you ahve a horse' message? really fun, eh?


Anyways, back on topic:
This is a good idea, and i regularly hear people saying it, people with all kinds of characters, that is, both ranged, inf and cav prefer the open maps that allow teamwork.

imo, teamwork has always been the purpose of this mod, and with strat down, we just need the right maps for it to happen on public servers.

Offline Rhygar666

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 230
  • Infamy: 107
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • möp
    • View Profile
  • Faction: HRE
  • Game nicks: Rhygay666_HRE
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2011, 04:55:50 pm »
0
lol no
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline gazda

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 483
  • Infamy: 124
  • cRPG Player
  • Its almost harvesting season.
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Saracens
  • Game nicks: Gazda_the_Swine
  • IRC nick: gazda
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 04:57:46 pm »
0
i would remove all archers, cav, 2h, and xbows and shielders from game, you know, to make it more balanced  :D
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Fluffy_Muffin

  • Permanently Banned
  • **
  • Renown: 429
  • Infamy: 122
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Tribunal
  • Game nicks: Vivec_the_Poet
  • IRC nick: Umbra
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 05:11:17 pm »
0
No, if a non dedicated cav player made this post i would believe it, this way no. It was horrible and unplayable this past few days, situations like 4 out of 5 random plain maps. 3 Random plain maps in a row etc. Ofcourse you loved it, you owned on those maps as you should but if you call that balance you are wrong, and teamwork can be used on every single map so just because you see guys taking pikes and forming groups its not that they are having some great teamwork master plan, its just because they are tired of getting picked off by cav on these wide open spaces.

I dont mind 1 out of 4 or even 1 out of 3 maps being random plains, but anything more then that would be unblanaced, and unfair to other clases. As it was stated this random plains spam was a bug and i hope it was fixed to the normal balance as it should be
Defy me, and you will know what it is to stand against a god.

Offline Tavuk_Bey

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 409
  • Infamy: 233
  • cRPG Player
  • herrroo, my näym iz bokkkseee änd i'm fukken ugry
    • View Profile
  • Faction: bashibazouk, the official jihad clan
  • Game nicks: tavuk
  • IRC nick: Minister of Shitstorm
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 05:28:51 pm »
0
lol? so when a cav wants to play, he gets 'You can't join because you ahve a horse' message? really fun, eh?

then my answer is no we have enuff plain maps
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


roast and roast again until lambs become kebab

Offline Torp

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 66
  • Infamy: 12
  • cRPG Player
  • Do evil to others before they do evil to you
    • View Profile
  • Faction: The Fallen Brigade
  • Game nicks: Fallen_Kenkyaku
  • IRC nick: Torp
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 05:56:29 pm »
0
No, if a non dedicated cav player made this post i would believe it, this way no.

I'm pretty sure you'll have a non-dedicated cav player post it in here soon

Offline Overdriven

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 828
  • Infamy: 223
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Great Khans
  • Game nicks: GK_Overdriven
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2011, 06:18:14 pm »
0
Most of those maps aren't 'plains'. They are more 'random mountains'. I agree the mountainous ones are horrible. They pretty much just result in one team camping a giant hill and the other team is screwed. I hate those maps, yes I often get a high KD but I hate them because of the essentially forced camping (who wouldn't camp a big hill). I'm talking about pretty much straight flat maps. Only very slight hills, few trees and no buildings. That was the first map I've seen on any server of that kind in rotation. And I've played about 30 hours in the past 2 weeks.

Fact is, this mod is meant to be about teamwork. But it is very rare that any is ever seen. And when it is, it's usually small pockets of team work. I'm simply trying to see why this is. And honestly, it's not because it's pubby. As shown this morning, with a couple of guys giving orders (with the amount of clans that should be easy) most pubbys listen, else they die. Honestly, I think it is largely due to the maps. The maps we have, village camp, hill camp or street brawl all result in the winning team simply winning because they have the better 2-3 guys who hack through everyone. In the battle we played today it ended up being 4-3 on rounds. The first round was a mess. The second and third we lost because our cav was out played and we charged to early. The others we won because we adapted our tactics and supported the infantry and withheld our charge till it was effective. But both teams had great organisation. With the cavalry and infantry working independently in formations, but supporting each other till the very end. One of those rounds was incredibly close, with 2 of our guys against 1 of theirs and only just scraping a win.

Honestly with 100 players in that battle this morning, I'm sure there will be some floating around to say something. Also see Lorenzo's thread in the General Discussion forum. http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8541.0.html . There's your infantry players.

No, if a non dedicated cav player made this post i would believe it, this way no. It was horrible and unplayable this past few days, situations like 4 out of 5 random plain maps. 3 Random plain maps in a row etc. Ofcourse you loved it, you owned on those maps as you should but if you call that balance you are wrong, and teamwork can be used on every single map so just because you see guys taking pikes and forming groups its not that they are having some great teamwork master plan, its just because they are tired of getting picked off by cav on these wide open spaces.

I dont mind 1 out of 4 or even 1 out of 3 maps being random plains, but anything more then that would be unblanaced, and unfair to other clases. As it was stated this random plains spam was a bug and i hope it was fixed to the normal balance as it should be

O and I didn't 'own' on that map either. The fact the cav and infantry stuck together made it very hard for any one player to stand out. Everyone was on relatively equal terms. Particularly as both teams had lancers, ha, archers, shielders, pikes and 2h. But seriously...isn't that the way crpg is meant to be played? Banding together to fight and out think the other team? Otherwise the other option is what we have now, stupid village maps which are just essentially tons of 1vs1 mini skirmishes with 2-3 good players hacking through everyone else. Working as a team nullifies those good players if you work together and that's how a team wins. There's so much ephasis and constant complaint about the lack of strategus at the moment. But honestly, no one tries to replicate a good battle on pubby servers, even when there's a heavy amount of one clan online. It just seems like if there's so much bitching and moaning about wanting strategus back, at least make pubby something a bit organised. Otherwise CRPG is only slightly better than native.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 06:33:25 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Ujin

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1057
  • Infamy: 166
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 06:21:01 pm »
0
My answer , after playing those maps on my shielder character, is yes.

Offline Overdriven

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 828
  • Infamy: 223
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Great Khans
  • Game nicks: GK_Overdriven
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2011, 06:23:24 pm »
0
My answer , after playing those maps on my shielder character, is yes.

Ujin gets a +1.

Offline Oberyn

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1578
  • Infamy: 538
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Lone Frog
  • Game nicks: Oberyn
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2011, 06:27:36 pm »
0
Ujin is a well known equine sympathizer.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Fluffy_Muffin

  • Permanently Banned
  • **
  • Renown: 429
  • Infamy: 122
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Tribunal
  • Game nicks: Vivec_the_Poet
  • IRC nick: Umbra
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2011, 06:32:53 pm »
0
Probalby shouldnt have made the 1st statement seeing how everyone focuses on that thing

The important part being: 1 out of 4 or 1 out of 3 is balanced map rotation not 3 in a row or 4 out of 5, or more than that as we have seen in the recent days and as it was indentified as a bug
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 06:38:49 pm by Fluffy_Muffin »
Defy me, and you will know what it is to stand against a god.

Offline Overdriven

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 828
  • Infamy: 223
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Great Khans
  • Game nicks: GK_Overdriven
Re: Open Plains
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2011, 06:36:44 pm »
0
Probalby shouldnt have made the 1st statement seeing how everyone focuses on that thing

The important part being: 1 out of 4 or 1 out of 3 is balanced map rotation not 3 in a row

But the point being most of those maps aren't open plains. I just reiterated that. They are far too mountainous a lot of them and that's what makes them a pain. I am talking near enough flat maps. 1 out of 3 would be fine. But like I said, that is the first map that looks like that that I've ever seen in rotation and it's not like I don't play a lot.

I'm just trying to reason why we don't ever see any real teamwork. Yet the first open plains map I've ever seen (I don't count maps like Chagans river crossing one...that was built for cav) actually had an incredible level of teamwork on it for pubby. The first 2 mins were spent organising shield walls and cavalry lines, beating back random scouting HA ect. The actual battle timer almost went down to 0 because the fights were lasting so well with everyone involved all at once. But honestly it felt like the fastest battle I've ever played because everyone was constantly involved in making the formations work and marching towards each other in organisation before actually fighting. That's why one of the maps went to flags (at about 4 mins) because no one had attacked and we were forming our lines and heading towards each other. It feels like what I'd imagine a real battle of the time to appear like...and that's what a lot of CRPG should be about. Not individual skirmishes all the time.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 06:44:32 pm by Overdriven »