Athletics?

[Elerion]

Weight based movement speed reduction does not have a break point. You start slowing down from the first pound you wear.

[Teeth]

WaltF4 said there was a break point and I don't notice any difference with my 6 weight gear and my occasional 1,5 weight peasant gear. In native this break point was at 6 but native didnt have the x3 head armor and x2 hand armor weight calculation so the break point here should be about 7.5 but depens on your hand and head armor. If I go over this I do notice a difference but I might be biased.

Athlethics is cool by the way, from 8 and above you can outrun almost everyone with light/ninja gear, so you can really pick your battles. Also you useful for kiting. Whenever I encounter a group of enemies I just run away until all but one have stopped chasing me and I attack that one.

I do feel it makes a difference in duels, I used to use a long hafted blade and I rarely had to block just by moving in and out range of my oppenent in between their attacks. (except for 2h stabs argh!)

I dont understand how you str builds dont want to rip your eyes out when you move so slow. It takes so long to get to the castle in for example siege. I want to fight not travel.

[Cyclopsided]

Lol, in NA it is like a slow race to do less and less agi characters. Everytime you get more strength your KDR gets better up until a point. Some people that point may be 15 agi, some 9 agi.
Some people go 6 or 3 agi and get away with it without anyone even thinking they are pure strength. Even myself on a 36-3 build was called an agi spammer in the battle servers a few times.

Yeah, athletics is only really useful for something that needs to be mobile like a pikeman, dedicated shielder, or a dickless running archer [and chasing said dickless archer]. But you don't have to chase them. If some archer is drawing out the end of the map you wait for flag and cap as if he isn't there 

The funny argument EU has about strength builds since they are so late to get to the fight -- Not if everyone is a strength build. They all arrive a little later and you pretty much have to give your position to them since you won't be able to go toe-to-toe with them on an agi char. I occasionally see high athletics characters in NA and I caught myself thinking "ah, what a fun gimmick character those are...". What a sad thing to think.
Nobody has to chase some dumb backpeddling agi char. People don't in NA unless you overstep into their reach, then they 1 hit you XD. Strength builds can use long weapons too.
Or they ride a horse twice as fast as people and dgaf.


I Always need that 1 athletics point. Even on 36-3 I do 12PS/ 10IF/ 1 ath. Catch people who run away all the time XD. Gimmicky if you don't have proper footwork. Solid if you do.
A really solid fun build I want to try: 27/9 with: 9PS/ 9IF/2 Shield/ 3 Athletics/ 3 WM/ 3 Riding. Not slow, hits like a truck, takes hits like a truck, can drive a truck. Can use a kite shield on horse or a board/round shield when on foot. Yep, seems solid to me.

[Elerion]

WaltF4 said there was a break point and I don't notice any difference with my 6 weight gear and my occasional 1,5 weight peasant gear. In native this break point was at 6 but native didnt have the x3 head armor and x2 hand armor weight calculation so the break point here should be about 7.5 but depens on your hand and head armor. If I go over this I do notice a difference but I might be biased.

I'm fairly sure there is no break point for movement speed. There is no x3 head armor or x2 hand armor weight either.

The break point and 3x/2x rule you're referencing is with regards to wpf reduction based on armor weight. That's a different formula altogether.

[Dexxtaa]

Holy hell, even with my builds I still have athletics.

[Teeth]

I'm fairly sure there is no break point for movement speed. There is no x3 head armor or x2 hand armor weight either.

The break point and 3x/2x rule you're referencing is with regards to wpf reduction based on armor weight. That's a different formula altogether.

Yeah your right, no breaking point, got the two completely messed up.

[Dravic]

Try some real agi builds.

6/33 str/agi works just fine for me, unless you want to be a hero and 1hit every enemy spotted.

Such an agi build works really good if you like to circle enemies and attack their backs by involving few people in fight with you. You usually don't have to win, just keep them away from their team for 30 seconds and they are easy targets for coming cavalry or you can also finish them if you are good manual blocker.

Complete build:Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 6
Agility: 33
Hit points: 41
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 2
Shield: 0
Athletics: 11
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 10
One Handed: 190
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

With Yanmaodao.

Also, if you don't believe devs that skills above 10 give bonuses:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 9
Agility: 30
Hit points: 44
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 3
Shield: 0
Athletics: 10
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 10
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 190
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

With Spiked Mace (you can get katana for style, but after last nerfs it is bad weapon, and it costs a bit too much)

Btw, such agi builds wear almost no armor (clothes only) and their weapons costs at most few thousand. These builds are really good choice for a "get-more-money" gen.

[Cyclopsided]

Try some real agi builds.

Have, many times.
They can work a little, and are really fun. However, they die in one hit from anything and take 10 to take out a strength character.

[Dravic]

Have, many times.
They can work a little, and are really fun. However, they die in one hit from anything and take 10 to take out a strength character.

Yeah, that's why I always say: devs don't like agi.

First, with every patch we lose some weapons (by raising their req).
Second, devs often nerf weapons used by agi characters (Katana, for example).
Third, devs don't want to resign of rain, which nerfs athletics further and makes shooting with crossbow really hard (and senseless, because we pay upkeep for basically nothing) - crossbowmen in 90% cases ARE agi characters (15/27 str/agi is agi character, isn't it?)

^
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this is only from the top of my mind...

[Tears of Destiny]

I dont understand how you str builds dont want to rip your eyes out when you move so slow. It takes so long to get to the castle in for example siege. I want to fight not travel.

Because when the 36/3 build of mine finally does reach the castle, it is damn hilarious to chunk a few opponents with just a "weak" bastard sword in one blow each, or break shields like twigs. It is all a matter of perspective, but with my STR builds I usually last a rather long time in melee due to being able to take more damage as well as requiring less hits to take out tin cans. Overall I think my ratio of fighting vs traveling is rather good. 
I think the thing with Athletics is that people need to stop advocating it as a thing that every class needs.
It is a situational skill, just like everything.

Most Archers will love it for it allows you to get into position faster, which is rather needed for an archer.

A lot of melee users like it because it allows them to have great foot work, yet other melee users will politely remind you that regardless of your athletics, you will be able to spin as fast as yoru mouse sensitivity will allow and athletics be damned.

Quite a few cavalry players go without it because they have a mindset of "I'm on a freaking horse" so why bother becoming a "hybrid" cav/footmen if you want to create a dedicated cavalry character? I do that with one of my lancers, and truth be told it works out rather well. It feels slow on the ground, but considering I have a bunch of points extra to spend from not going athletics, when I am on a horse I can survive longer on it due to mor focuse on being a cavalry player.


To each their own. Three of my characters don't have a point of athletics, and it does me just fine. Dedicated Cavalry and Dedicated TinCans in my opinion don't need it as much as other classes, and I build accordingly.

[zagibu]

I either go max ATH or no ATH. I had a 36/3 STR infantry char like Tears with 0 ATH, and it was indeed slow. Any inclination in the terrain -> crawl. Also, other chars could dance around me in combat. They dictated the distance. You learn to live with it, though, and adapt.

On other chars I always invest the maximum possible points in ATH. Currently, I go for a 9/30 build with 10 ATH to see just how fast you can get while still being relevant in combat (6/33 or more extreme is not viable, IMO, due to weapon requirements).

[Canary]

WOW, athletics is one of the most important skills, none of the "good" players have less than 6.
Athletics is just as important as weapon master.

Which is to say that it's not important at all, nor is it critical to a character's survival in any given round. Unless you're hybridizing your weapon proficiencies there is no reason to take any weapon master, you can do perfectly fine with zero. I have 2 points in it, but my build would probably have been better off (and more versatile) with zero. The benefits you get from either a small number of skill points or stacking it as high as it goes are awful and have some of the worst returns considering the investment you're making.

As for athletics, you literally don't need any as well. Several good players have less than 6, surely, and several I know personally, whether they be on alts or not, have gone as low as 3 or under and have done just fine, if not more impressively than they would have with a higher agility build.

I occasionally see high athletics characters in NA and I caught myself thinking "ah, what a fun gimmick character those are...".

I have 9 athletics, and I consider my character to be hardly gimmicky. Of course, my high amount of conversions means that I also have enough strength for 6 power strike, so I'm not whiffing left and right, either; it's a very viable build. I definitely do get frustrated at the limitations that I encounter from lacking ironflesh, specifically, and the lack of my ability to wear armor while receiving the full effect of my chosen build. There is a huge contrast in the way that strength builds and agility builds work: The strength builds survive a ton of hits, and gain even more of a benefit from wearing armor, while agility builds tend to be much more frail and lose nearly every benefit of their spec from trying to circumvent that problem by wearing armor.

I just don't always feel that the investment in higher agility is worth it, as a non hybrid. So I run faster, big deal, it's not always impressive, and it's impeded by so many anomalies in map terrain and limited so much by the equipment you wear. Compare that to a high strength build, which would allow you make kills on people in however many less swings (which can not be overstated) and survive many more yourself, synergizing especially well with thicker armor.

Basically it's a comparison of KILLING FASTER AND NOT DYING AS MUCH to BEING ABLE TO RUN FROM MELEE PLAYERS AND CLOSE GAPS FASTER.

Agility, and athletics especially, are sometimes vastly overrated. That said, I wouldn't enjoy the game as much with less than my main has, it is so terribly fun to be able to run around at such speeds.

[Cyclopsided]

Canary: I'm referring to someone with 3/6/9/12 strength when I refer to gimmicky agility builds. Meanwhile a strength focused build with 12 or less agi is hugely if not more viable for many players than a balanced build.


Never go 0 ath with a short weapon. With minimal or 0 athletics you can still dictate the fight if you aren't gimping yourself on weapon length. A strength build can backstep, forcing the agility build to step towards him. End of fight.
or he can have a longer or equal length weapon and can't be backpeddled anyways so who cares.

I want to stress athletics & agi builds are FUN with moving around, although they are less effective when they do get to combat by a lot.

[Seawied]

Canary: I'm referring to someone with 3/6/9/12 strength when I refer to gimmicky agility builds. Meanwhile a strength focused build with 12 or less agi is hugely if not more viable for many players than a balanced build.


Never go 0 ath with a short weapon. With minimal or 0 athletics you can still dictate the fight if you aren't gimping yourself on weapon length. A strength build can backstep, forcing the agility build to step towards him. End of fight.
or he can have a longer or equal length weapon and can't be backpeddled anyways so who cares.

I want to stress athletics & agi builds are FUN with moving around, although they are less effective when they do get to combat by a lot.

I'm of the same opinion.

I'd like to see agility characters get something. With the way WPF was redesigned back in January, there is a lot less incentive to use agility. While preventing the sheer spamability of all the balb-clones was a good thing, agility characters are left out in the cold.

I think two things should happen:
1) WPF requirement weapons... which some of which would be very difficult to obtain by PURE strength builds.
2) Strategius incentives. Possibly have athletics and riding allow the player to transverse the map faster, much like warband single-player.

Neither of these would be game-breaking, but they would allow for some more flexibility for people who want to go agility-heavy.

[okiN]

Basically it's a comparison of KILLING FASTER AND NOT DYING AS MUCH to BEING ABLE TO RUN FROM MELEE PLAYERS AND CLOSE GAPS FASTER.

Massive oversimplification. I use athletics all the time in combat movement both to get kills and avoid death.