Shielder (offensive)

[Kherr]

Use the alternate mode on your broad axe to open black plate or milanese plate.

Nice idea... but I checked the numbers and I am not sure whether that's a good idead. A Broad 1H Battle Axe has got 35 cut normal and 25 pierce damage secondary.
With 7 PS and 130 effective wpf and 75 enemy armor you deal

with 35 cut:
    Minimum: 3
    Average: 12.5
    Maximum: 22

and with 25 pierce:
    Minimum: 3
    Average: 11.5
    Maximum: 20

So it seems it is better not to use the secondary mode (and it's even one point slower).

Edit:
What about glancing? Do you glance often, if you use the normal mode with cut? Is it much less in secondary mode?

[Spawny]

Shouldn't make a difference.

The pierce mode is pretty useless.

[EyeBeat]

Shouldn't make a difference.

The pierce mode is pretty useless.

I thought pierce damage does more damage to the head or does that not matter anymore?

[Turboflex]

Nice idea... but I checked the numbers and I am not sure whether that's a good idead. A +3 Broad 1H Battle Axe has got 35 cut normal and 25 pierce damage secondary.
With 7 PS and 130 effective wpf and 75 enemy armor you deal

with 35 cut:
    Minimum: 3
    Average: 12.5
    Maximum: 22

and with 25 pierce:
    Minimum: 3
    Average: 11.5
    Maximum: 20

So it seems it is better not to use the secondary mode (and it's even one point slower).

Edit:
What about glancing? Do you glance often, if you use the normal mode with cut? Is it much less in secondary mode?

A +3 has 38c and 28p

So it becomes worth it at about 55 armour

[SchokoSchaf]

Plus - though it looks like shit, is has style.

[Kherr]

A +3 has 38c and 28p
So it becomes worth it at about 55 armour

You are right, I used the stats of a normal axe.
So I did a calculation for a +3:
130 effective WPF, 7PS

38 Cut, 55 Armor:
    Minimum: 10
    Average: 22
    Maximum: 34

38 Cut, 75 Armor:
    Minimum: 4
    Average: 14.5
    Maximum: 25


28 Pierce, 55 Armor:
    Minimum: 10
    Average: 20
    Maximum: 30

28 Pierce, 75 Armor:
    Minimum: 4
    Average: 13.5
    Maximum: 23

I thought pierce damage does more damage to the head or does that not matter anymore?

I know that rumor. I tried to verify that with another player several months ago. I could not verify a higher damage.
Also info from cmp:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3128.msg55937.html#msg55937

    Piercing weapons do triple damage to the head. 

Nope, urban legend.

[Turboflex]

That's interesting to know, one thing not showing up tho, and what I've heard & noticed myself (all anecdotal I know, but it seems to be true) is that pierce glances less against tincans.

[Spawny]

That's interesting to know, one thing not showing up tho, and what I've heard & noticed myself (all anecdotal I know, but it seems to be true) is that pierce glances less against tincans.

Nope. It all comes down to numbers.. If you beat the damage threshold for a glance, you won't glance. It's just that pierce damage generally deals more damage to plate and thus glances less.
So, when comparing 28 pierce with 28 cut, pierce does glance less. But in the case of the secondary mode of the B1HWA vs it's normal mode, there is hardly any difference.

[Turboflex]

I guess it is all just psychological then that when I flip my axe to pierce secondary I only feel stronger vs. tincans, but am not actually

So devs please buff secondary pierce by +2 points so it is actually useful against high armour people.

[Thalandor]

How about 27/12?

Recently dev team has talked about additional post lvl 31 retirement bonuses being implemented soon so I thought about advancing my shielder to 33 and then retiring. I have most of the looms I need in any case. Originally I thought about doing 24/15 to improve the hitting power of my last build 21/15 (was really pleased with that). But now I'm thinking that since 12 agi has been enough for me so why don't I go for ultimate strength build.

+3 Iberian Mace or +3 Elite Scimitar with 9PS sounds scary doesn't it? Additionally, I have +3 Knightly Heater so even with 4 Shield I should be able to take some hits without losing my shield. However, Ath concerns me. In siege 4 has been enough but how about battle, 4 Ath enough or am I gimping myself? I'd love to try this sort of "gimmick" build though.

Is there a significant difference between 9 PS and 8 PS for such weapons?

[San]

There is a noticeable difference between 8 and 9 PS, however, the change from 4 to 5 athletics feels VERY significant.

27/12 was my first 1h build, then I respecced to 24/15. You're able to circle around opponents better and most builds can't backpedal against you if you are moving forward properly.

27/12 definitely isn't that bad, though, especially if you are comfortable in lighter armor. 24/15 is usable even in medium-heavy armor. 4 shield means you will get hit around slightly more, but it's more annoying that you can't pick whatever shield that's lying around.

[zagibu]

I think it can work with a long weapon. Poledancers will mostly dodge you, though. You will have to put the shield away quite frequently, I think.

[Thalandor]

I've been playing as 24/12 for a while now and can confirm that in some situations 12 ath is enough. If you move with main host you can get quite a few kills with Iberian in the chaos. Whereas Elite Scimitar will work well when you have more room. I find myself using the latter more even though I love knockdown. However, it's hard for me to say how the build ranks up because most of my deaths seem to come due to my own stupidity and getting myself into bad combat situations. This true with all my builds. Sometimes I top the scoreboard, sometimes below mid ranks. I really need to develop consistency.  :oops:Maybe the weakness of a strength build is that it is more limited in staying with the zerg host. And sometimes because of the lack of team work, such a host never forms. Recently I did rank 10/0 score though by just moving on my own or in small groups.

I don't think I'll be continuing this build to 27/12 though. I remember having more fun with agi builds. I might even become a better player by trying to become more like a duellist.

[Ronin]

I've been playing as 24/12 for a while now and can confirm that in some situations 12 ath is enough. If you move with main host you can get quite a few kills with Iberian in the chaos. Whereas Elite Scimitar will work well when you have more room. I find myself using the latter more even though I love knockdown. However, it's hard for me to say how the build ranks up because most of my deaths seem to come due to my own stupidity and getting myself into bad combat situations. This true with all my builds. Sometimes I top the scoreboard, sometimes below mid ranks. I really need to develop consistency.  :oops:Maybe the weakness of a strength build is that it is more limited in staying with the zerg host. And sometimes because of the lack of team work, such a host never forms. Recently I did rank 10/0 score though by just moving on my own or in small groups.

I don't think I'll be continuing this build to 27/12 though. I remember having more fun with agi builds. I might even become a better player by trying to become more like a duellist.

This is the problem with STR builds, they are less flexible and more situation oriented in my opinion. That's why many people think STR builds are stronger in comparision to AGI builds, they always see STR builds in top scoreboards, but they do not look at the whole picture. For me, none is stronger than the other. They just have their own uses on the field. STR builds seem to favor close quarter combat, whereas AGI builds can pick their battle and can deal with the enemy missile foes more easily.

[Lyozsha]

The problem with Str on a shielder is sometimes they are too slow,  and it is easy to see which direction they will swing in making it easier to parry than a 2h swing.   I used more agi for mine so it could out swing most attacks as long as the footing is correct.