Spear Vs Sword & Buckler

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

good video

warspear used without a shield of any sort kicks ass, btw. Very fast, and good reach--particularly annoying in the hands of a high agility build. The buckler guy looked like a strength build or something: too slow.

Once you add a shield to that spear it instantly devolves into suckiness. Hense my bitch thread in the suggestions forum (lol suggestions).

[Elerion]

Hi, I play computer games with swords in them, so I feel qualified to talk about proper fighting techniques with real life medieval weaponry.

[Denam]

Hi, I play computer games with swords in them, so I feel qualified to talk about proper fighting techniques with real life medieval weaponry.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Konrax]

Just like with any fighting style or any weapon it isn't the weapon but the person who wins a fight.

That style of spear fighting is more Asian (Korean specifically) than a traditional European technique.

[El_Infante]

Just like with any fighting style or any weapon it isn't the weapon but the person who wins a fight.
That style of spear fighting is more Asian (Korean specifically) than a traditional European technique.

Spears/Pikemens was the most useful troop of all times. It's a cheap, useful, and easy weapon to use. That's the reason it survived until napoleon times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries

Hmm, actually I think the main point why Spears got used so often and that much in historical warfare was that they were simple and cheap weapons. However I think this video isnt that great. First of all, who would use a little small buckler against a shield? In addition he just keeps being defensive .... kinda looks like one of the new players in crpg who keeps backpaddling with there shield against a great long voulge and wonder why they have no chance against the enemy ...

I think this guy might be way more successfull with a bigger shield and if he plays much more offensive, although I understand that the spear guy can move backwards really quick, but a rush might work on the spear guy, if he dont have space tu use his spear ... ... like on 2:41

Perhaps.. you didn't hear about spanish sword&bucklers of 1500? That was one of the best troops of his time.

http://thearma.org/essays/SwordandBuckler.htm

[Konrax]

Spears/Pikemens was the most useful troop of all times. It's a cheap, useful, and easy weapon to use. That's the reason it survived until napoleon times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries

Your reply to my quote doesn't mean anything.

What I said is the person wins the fight not the weapons.

[Banok]

I always love seeing clips from other people that realize how poorly implemented and underpowered spears are/were in relation to other weapons in M&B/cRPG.  They're only THE melee weapon that dominates and defines the history/warfare of the human species.

*The bow and arrow being the ranged weapon that does the same.  In the grand scheme of things firearms still only has a small amount of time with our species thus far, even though it redefined warfare/combat as a whole.*

Great vid.

thing is most games dont even have spears so to be honest I still kind of feel like people should STFU. for me its enough that they are there and viable.

[Trael]

question is with real weapon? Could the sword user just break the spear shaft by swinging on it? 

Simply NO, NO and NO mechanics dont work that way. (Sure not impossible to happen in some situation, but really quite unlikely)

quite many speartips will end up having metal on so long part of spear that when any potentially sane cuttingangle is archievable with sword, tip of spear is already far behind sworduser (aka penetrated person or missed... meaning things are already over for sworduser or in case of miss if sworduser is going to be able to keep that situation where spear has point pass target, there is no point in hitting spear instead of person using it.)

[Seawied]

Simply NO, NO and NO mechanics dont work that way. (Sure not impossible to happen in some situation, but really quite unlikely)

quite many speartips will end up having metal on so long part of spear that when any potentially sane cuttingangle is archievable with sword, tip of spear is already far behind sworduser (aka penetrated person or missed... meaning things are already over for sworduser or in case of miss if sworduser is going to be able to keep that situation where spear has point pass target, there is no point in hitting spear instead of person using it.)

Trael, you're half right. The sword being used in the video would never break a spear. However, there are several noted military groups in the later era of medieval warfare that specialized in breaking spears with their sword. I'll have to dig up the exact group name, but I believe there was a group of Scottish Claymore wielders and another group of German Zweihander users I read about.

Regular old swords breaking spears is pretty much just Hollywood perpetuating bad history.

[MouthnHoof]

Trael, you're half right. The sword being used in the video would never break a spear. However, there are several noted military groups in the later era of medieval warfare that specialized in breaking spears with their sword. I'll have to dig up the exact group name, but I believe there was a group of Scottish Claymore wielders and another group of German Zweihander users I read about.

Regular old swords breaking spears is pretty much just Hollywood perpetuating bad history.

Do not confuse long pikes with spears. The pikes had to have a lighter (per length) pole or they would be impossible to wield. European war spears and most derived polearms were less than 3 meter total length, typically closer to 2.5m (man with extended arm) and used very hard wood for the shaft. This is why they were also effective clubs like a quarterstaff. I am not talking about the Chinese flexible bamboo spears.

[Maciver]

As to the point of spears not being as powerful as they should be in game - Theres two points to this.

One, even if you agree with this, there is of course game balance.

Two, I think they are quite powerful and fun in game.  Take walt for example with his long spear.  Theres also quite a lot of skilled war spear users.

Im playing a cav/polearm guy atm.  I love my light lance on horse OR on foot. I dont carry a back up weapon.  Spears are great fun.

[MouthnHoof]

As to the point of spears not being as powerful as they should be in game - Theres two points to this.

One, even if you agree with this, there is of course game balance.

Two, I think they are quite powerful and fun in game.

It's not that they are not powerful enough as much as the unsuitability of the game engine to spear usage. Basically all our spears are odd glaives. M&B was designed for sword-like weapons and when spears were added they were forcefully squeezed into the existing mechanics. Just look at the tens of "second thrust attack" threads, the inability to push with the spear, etc. Taleworlds even tried a few tweaks during warband beta, but basically non of them could make a real difference without breaking the system. Nothing can be done about this.

[Matey]

I played Dynasty Warriors 4, 5, 6, 7 and online... as well as DW 5 Empires... so I think I am more than qualified to say that spears are superior to swords because they have so much better range, and as such when you use your musou attack with a spear you can kill lots of guys all at once, whereas with a sword you would only kill a few near guys; also, Ma Chao and Zhao Yun both use spears... so that also makes it obvious that Spears > Swords. The only really good sword guy is Zhou Tai, and he has poor clearance moves. Oh and the rapier and buckler customer character is terrible in comparison to the spear characters, so that also proves beyond a doubt what was seen in the video.

[LLJK_Korea1]

I played Dynasty Warriors 4, 5, 6, 7 and online... as well as DW 5 Empires... so I think I am more than qualified to say that spears are superior to swords because they have so much better range, and as such when you use your musou attack with a spear you can kill lots of guys all at once, whereas with a sword you would only kill a few near guys; also, Ma Chao and Zhao Yun both use spears... so that also makes it obvious that Spears > Swords. The only really good sword guy is Zhou Tai, and he has poor clearance moves. Oh and the rapier and buckler customer character is terrible in comparison to the spear characters, so that also proves beyond a doubt what was seen in the video.

welp, case closed, we have ourself opinion of an expert