Possible change to armor handling: increase damage reduce, decrease soak effect.

[zagibu]

It wouldn't make plate worse. You just can't spam all day and hope everything glance off your plate. There will still be soak, and in order to actually do any notable damage to armor (which has increased damage reduce), you still need strenght and powerstrike.

I don't know where you got the information that currently, all you have to do is wear heavy plate and a considerable amount of hits will glance off. I sometimes wear lordly milanese plate with plate mittens, sallet with visor and cased greaves, and not even 1 in 4 hits glances off, even against 1h cutting weapons. And of those that glance off, half of them still interrupt me while doing no damage (or at least I don't see a change on the health bar).

And Mala, it's not only about running speed, you also get a WPF decrease with armor weight.

[Lezard]

I don't know where you got the information that currently, all you have to do is wear heavy plate and a considerable amount of hits will glance off.

I didn't say that a considerable amount of hits will definitely glance off. The point is, the random factor of glancing will be reduced, while the armor reduces more incoming damage. It's a good tradeoff that advocates more skill based gameplay.

[Paul]

The penalty for hitting at a bad angle(sweetspots) is bigger than 90%. Most attacks that glance of now because of that would glance of too with the change. However centered, perfect range attacks that bounce because of a high armor dice roll will less likely glance.

[zagibu]

I didn't say that a considerable amount of hits will definitely glance off. The point is, the random factor of glancing will be reduced, while the armor reduces more incoming damage. It's a good tradeoff that advocates more skill based gameplay.

I would say that "everything" is quite a considerable amount. You also fail to explain how the change would lead to more skill based gameplay

Considering the change...i really don't know how the current system works and whether the proposition would be good or bad, however, the intention that motivated the proposition is completely opposite to my mindset, so I will oppose it anyway. In fact, I would prefer that weaklings bounce on heavy armor all the time, but that hits who get through do almost full damage. There are enough disadvantages to heavy armor that even with such a change/buff, the amount of tincans (which is currently less than 5% at any given time) would probably not increase dramatically.

[Lezard]

I would say that "everything" is quite a considerable amount.

I did not say it would definitely bounce off, with 100% certainty. I said hope, while you said "all you have to do is wear heavy plate and a considerable amount of hits will glance off", meaning a good ammount will with certainty glance off. It's the random factor, which involves less skill, that bothers me.

You also fail to explain how the change would lead to more skill based gameplay

"The point is, the random factor of glancing will be reduced, while the armor reduces more incoming damage. It's a good tradeoff that advocates more skill based gameplay."
Not good enough for you? I will not explain in detail what has already been explained in the first post.

Edit: I will reply no more. I have spoken my opinion and I can't be arsed to get into arguments on the internet.

[Siiem]

Wait, agility builds are considered as being overpowered at the moment?

No, they suck. Buff.

[zagibu]

How will this increase good gameplay instead of boosting agi ninjas never having to fear the bounces anymore? The only way a plated knight with a slow weapon can currently kill an agi ninja is by hoping for a bounce. Blocking will not help, because the ninja has 160+ WPF, while the knight has maybe 110 with weight penalty, and a slow weapon, not a 100+ speed katana or warspear.

Actually, I think if armor was buffed, it would lead to more teamplay, because the tincans would have to be approached by players with anti-armor weapons, while those with weaker weapons would have to guard them against other opponents. It was a bit like this before the upkeep system, plated players were only approached by those with blunt or pierce damage (or other plated players). The problem back then was that everyone had plate. But this has been dealt with by the upkeep system.

And BTW, you said: "You just can't spam all day and hope everything glance off your plate." This sentence either implies you can currently spam all day and hope everything glances off your plate with any success (which would be wrong, because only very few hits currently bounce off any armor) or it is stating an irrelevant fact. Also, spamming as tincan will kill you very fast, because you don't have the speed to keep enemies at a distance.

[Tzar]

No, they suck. Buff.

I see what u did there...   

Anyways AGI stackers shouldn't get this buff thats my opinion they are all ready able to take on any1 in 1vs1 an is powerfull as it is.. if they have trouble vs high tier armors they should use anti plate weapons like every1 else..

While on the other hand its really annoying paying so much upkeep for plate armor when most builds have so much PS they can take you down in 1-2 hits so its a win / win situation

But bearing in mind that this would buff people who avoid PS to get Supreme speed i dont agree we need this change.

In the end the current game work as intended if you skip PS you gain a disadvantage vs high tier armors but u can outspam any1 and run as fast as sonic.

All this is really not needed since the game offers a huge amount of anti armor weapons they can have as 2ndary weapon even with the 2slot system there is no excuse as to why they should be able to use cut weapons as a jack of all trade..

But by all means go ahead i wouldn't mind being able to take on more hits when i suit up.

According to chadz survey most people actually wanted to buff armor since as it is now u can hardly feel the difference from wearing a sarranid guard armor to a Milanese plate  http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,5439.0.html

[Nindur]

Armor is fine the way it is, there are 9001 other issues that need to be addressed before you waste time on armor. Get strat up first.

[Tydeus]

There is an alternative solution suggested by Shik to lower the interupt threshhold to 0 so every hit no matter what would interrupt the tin can. Advantage here would be that the damage would stay the same. I don't like this much though because every hit interrupting would mean that spam with turning in attacks to the maximum would become viable. We had that in Native beta and I don't want that again.

Indeed, please no.

It sounds like raising the reduction would only serve to make both pierce and blunt far better than cut damage, unless the actual damage numbers for cut weapons, was increased.

[Elerion]

most people actually wanted to buff armor since as it is now u can hardly feel the difference from wearing a sarranid guard armor to a Milanese plate

Hardly feel a difference?

A 40 damage cutting sword swung by a 21str/7ps character will deal on average 29 damage to the Sarranid Guard Armor and 21.5 damage to the Milanese Plate. That's a 35% increase in survivability.

A 30 damage cutting sword swung by a 21str/7ps character will deal on average 18 damage to the Sarranid Guard Armor and 12 damage to the Milanese Plate. That's a 50% increase in survivability.

A 36 damage piercing Bec (a dedicated anti-armor weapon) swung by a 21str/7ps character will deal on average 34.5 damage to the Sarranid Guard Armor and 28 damage to the Milanese Plate. That's a 23% increase in survivability.


Heavy armored melee infantry are strictly better than light armored melee infantry. The drawback is the cost. Stop pretending the sky is falling.

[zagibu]

Not only the cost, also the WPF decrease.

[Elerion]

Do the math on how much swing time and damage you lose due to that and get back to me.

[Casimir]

Not the mention the fact you become a much bigger target as soon as you put on Armour above transitional, the hate that goes with plate can bring the meaning of gank to a whole new level.

Having read over these proposed changes i do think they would be a good thing.

If it means that wearing heavier Armour will effectively increase your HP poop e.g. meaning you will be able to actually survive more hits.

[Momo]

Yup, with this I can do a 9/30 mw katana build without glancing, thx.

Edit: It would be cool to survive more hits with the robe  .