Possible change to armor handling: increase damage reduce, decrease soak effect.

[MadJackMcMad]

Tzar, your trolling sig gives u -points. -1 for everyone that you make touch their screen.

It's his complete lack of logic combined with wild assertions derived from engrained confirmation bias.  Were Paul to come on here and claim the sky is blue, Tzar would be hot on his heels declaring otherwise.  He reminds me of my Girlfriend's brother who suffers from Aspergers.  He will frequently and violently argue against any agreement reached be his peers, regardless of how factual it is.  Say the sky is blue, he will be inclined to say 'no it isn't'.

The distinct ineffectiveness of swords as a ranged character was always quite odd.  I have been using a langes messer with 5 powerstrike and 1 proficiency and encountered more bounces than a bouncy ball in a bouncy castle.  What exactly does 1 proficiency represent?  Has your character never wielded a weapon before in his life? Is he some sort of spastic? It's really quite perplexing.  Default proficiency (1) should represent a historical martial average in my opinion.  Points investment should define a level of distinction in that area.

I think this is worth a shot, it would certainly improve the value of swords to people with less melee investment.  If there are unforeseen and undesirable consequences identified by a consensus then it can be rolled back.  What's the issue?  I am going to do my impression of Tzar now:  "If you are a plate user and can't be arsed blocking, please feel free to disagree with me."

[Tydeus]

Maybe, if it isn't hardcoded (which I think it might be), change the soak slightly, then change how much armor pierce/blunt mitigates. This way you're not completely screwing with balance for every class and every weapon. Though I'm all for the initial proposition.

[zagibu]

What exactly does 1 proficiency represent?  Has your character never wielded a weapon before in his life? Is he some sort of spastic? It's really quite perplexing.  Default proficiency (1) should represent a historical martial average in my opinion.  Points investment should define a level of distinction in that area.

Considering that we start as peasants, 1 proficiency really does mean that the character has never had such a weapon in his hands ever.

[IG_Saint]

Maybe, if it isn't hardcoded (which I think it might be), change the soak slightly, then change how much armor pierce/blunt mitigates. This way you're not completely screwing with balance for every class and every weapon. Though I'm all for the initial proposition.

It's not, the values are actually very easy to change. Take a look at your module.ini.

[MadJackMcMad]

Considering that we start as peasants, 1 proficiency really does mean that the character has never had such a weapon in his hands ever.

It's a common misconception that peasants are physically weak, they're merely untrained, undisciplined and lacking in equipment.  Give one a sword and he would be more than capable of injuring a knight in plate if said knight was too lazy to block.  Which is what we are discussing here, the ability to injure, not ability in swordplay.

[Kafein]

It's a common misconception that peasants are physically weak, they're merely untrained, undisciplined and lacking in equipment.  Give one a sword and he would be more than capable of injuring a knight in plate if said knight was too lazy to block.  Which is what we are discussing here, the ability to injure, not ability in swordplay.

Then if people could hurt plate users even with very low strength, the game balance would go towards agi even more than it already is. Besides, peasants start at 3 strength, so they are physically weak in this game 

[MadJackMcMad]

Then if people could hurt plate users even with very low strength, the game balance would go towards agi even more than it already is. Besides, peasants start at 3 strength, so they are physically weak in this game 

3 strength would not enable them to use military grade weaponry, so they would not be able to damage plate.

[Banok]

omg at posts in this thread people are so clueless.

[Keshian]

Really lookking forward to this change (hope you do a  big shift after testing a smaller shift.  Would really add to the skill requirement as less 1 shotting/glancing.  ANything that adds more skill and reduces luck is a good addition to the game, great idea Paul.

[IceManX]

Armor need to be more powerful.
At the moment it makes no difference for me wearing Transitional, Plate Mittens and so on.
I got killed in 1-3 hits.
If I am wearing a Kuyak and only leather items for other slots i got killed in 1-3 hits also.

Armor ist the most expensive Stuff ingame, it makes you slower and your WPF are decreased.
You have 4 Armor Slots and the gear can be expensive over 50k Gold only for your Armor.

In good old medieval an armor was the main important thing, it saved your life.
Only Longbows and Crossbows could dmg an heavy plate armor. The more you were away from them arrows didnt dmg it.
Same with Cutting Weapons, they didnt hurt Armors very well. A Sword became blunt dmg and could break your bones instead, but it didnt cut through the armor.

More Power, more soak and more dmg reduce for Armors!

[Lezard]

Armor need to be more powerful.
At the moment it makes no difference for me wearing Transitional, Plate Mittens and so on.
I got killed in 1-3 hits.
If I am wearing a Kuyak and only leather items for other slots i got killed in 1-3 hits also.

Armor ist the most expensive Stuff ingame, it makes you slower and your WPF are decreased.
You have 4 Armor Slots and the gear can be expensive over 50k Gold only for your Armor.

In good old medieval an armor was the main important thing, it saved your life.
Only Longbows and Crossbows could dmg an heavy plate armor. The more you were away from them arrows didnt dmg it.
Same with Cutting Weapons, they didnt hurt Armors very well. A Sword became blunt dmg and could break your bones instead, but it didnt cut through the armor.

More Power, more soak and more dmg reduce for Armors!

It wouldn't be balanced. Do you want everyone running around in plate armor? Increase both soak and damage reduce more, and you might as well remove most cutting weapons. Perhaps they could still have their use as archer and peasant shankers though!...

Edit: This change will decrease the damage you take, meaning more hits before you go down, especially if you're wearing plate.

[zagibu]

It wouldn't be balanced. Do you want everyone running around in plate armor? Increase both soak and damage reduce more, and you might as well remove most cutting weapons. Perhaps they could still have their use as archer and peasant shankers though!...

Edit: This change will decrease the damage you take, meaning more hits before you go down, especially if you're wearing plate.

You won't have everyone running around in plate, because upkeep doesn't allow it.

[Casimir]

Atm plate isnt worth the weight and speed nerg it incurs. Your better of doging the hits than tanking them. Simples.

If this buffs the ability to tank as a "plate noob" then do it. If it makes plate worse then its completly BS and only encorages more agility builds.

Agility builds which own in duels and can survive battles as often as the Str battle builds

FUUUUU

[Mala]

You are not that slow in heavy armour. Well, you need a few seconds longer to reach the battleline, but during the fight you can act quite fast.
And is is not, that heavy armour offers no real protection.
Without iron flesh in a lighter outfit (30 av) i fall after 1 - 2 hits, in medium (46 av) it takes mostly 2 - 3 hits and with heavy equipment (63 av) about 4 and more hits to bring me down.

[Lezard]

You won't have everyone running around in plate, because upkeep doesn't allow it.

Not every single player of course, but many more will use plate. It's mostly plate nubs who can't block or handle agility builds that would want more soak.

If this buffs the ability to tank as a "plate noob" then do it. If it makes plate worse then its completly BS and only encorages more agility builds.

It wouldn't make plate worse. You just can't spam all day and hope everything glance off your plate. There will still be soak, and in order to actually do any notable damage to armor (which has increased damage reduce), you still need strength and powerstrike.