Possible change to armor handling: increase damage reduce, decrease soak effect.

[LordSnow]

What a bad idea, stop this madness

[Cyclopsided]

A 6/33 build is lethal in the right hands. Where a 36/3 can just fight and hope he doesn't get overwhelmed, shot at, bumped or footwork/spammed out.

a 6/33 can can be lethal, true, but it will die to 1 arrow. To 1 hit from any melee, and it still can't spam people. In a fight between two inexperienced players, it may have the advantage in a little spam fight, but it will still probably lose. A fight of experienced players? Very low chance of winning. Will require 8-12 hits to take down a strength build.

a 36/3 is always lethal. He will oneshot every agi build and at most 2 shot every balanced build. He can not be spammed any moreso than a balanced build. Even with 1 ath he can not be outfootworked, assuming players of equal skill. He is not very slow with swings at all.
Come to NA duel server and watch strength builds instagib every pathetic agi build who think that you can spam. Assuming ones are on going 25-1 in there.

my point is though, balanced builds are good. Pure strength builds are good [can be outreached if someone has a longer weapon and runs away, but the strength build does not have to chase them]. Agility characters are pretty bad. imo 30/9 is best melee build currently.
I want more variety of builds viable, not less. I don't want strength builds to not be viable. I want agility builds, although gimmicky and will still be bad at duels, to at least have a better chance.

[Tzar]

a 6/33 can can be lethal, true, but it will die to 1 arrow. To 1 hit from any melee, and it still can't spam people. In a fight between two inexperienced players, it may have the advantage in a little spam fight, but it will still probably lose. A fight of experienced players? Very low chance of winning.

a 36/3 is always lethal. He will oneshot every agi build and at most 2 shot every balanced build. He can not be spammed. Even with 1 ath he can not be outfootworked, assuming players of equal skill. He is not very slow with swings at all.
Come to NA duel server and watch strength builds instagib every pathetic agi build who think that you can spam. Assuming ones are on going 25-1 in there.

LOOL!!!!!! 

Go to EU 3 duel server and get your ass kicked with that build dude your really full of it

1 ath can out foot work balanced builds??? lol what have u been smokin 

People with high AGI will allways be able to out swing and counter any slow ass str build out there.

Lets post pros and cons of the 2 builds.

STR build

Pros.
High Dmg
Lots of hp = more resistance to archers and ranged
Can survive 1 extra hit / mistake in combat due to the high hp pool

Cons.
Slow swing even if you know how to block its hard to counter attack because you wont be able to swing fast enough..
Slow movement
Cant get out of dangerous situation if he find himself alone against 3 or 4 opponents
Cant go rambo and roam see above ^

AGI build

Pros.

Can out swing most other builds
Can move in and out of combat as he see fits
Can roam the battlefield because of hes high speed
Can escape several enemies if he see fits
Can feel safe knowing he can out dance slow people moving in and out of swing length

Cons.
Weak HP pool
More likely to die of ranged
Needs to swing more than 1 or 2 times to kill but lets face it hes fast swings compensate for that..

Feel free to come with you own Pros and Cons. 

My next build is gonna be 21/18

I tried to settle with 4 ath and 4 wpf on my current but its too damn sluggish and ineffective in 1vs1 situations....

I believe that in the end balanced builds will allways beat the 2 above builds if they are good players.

Also you can really only benefit from str builds if you have a shitload of team mates around you because your dead in most 1vs1 situations...

George if your reading this i should have listened too you and gone with the build you gave me 

[Cyclopsided]

LOOL!!!!!! 

Go to EU 3 duel server and get your ass kicked with that build dude your really full of it

Alright, I'll go there with 240 Ping. I'll be there on some laggy character in a few days. It will take a few days to get a 36/3 character. Dueling across the seas doesn't work to well. But I will be there on some random name you've never heard of. I'll give results. And I'm only a decent player compared to the duelists in NA.

1 ath can out foot work balanced builds??? lol what have u been smokin 

No, they just can't be Outfootworked. I didn't say they outfootwork others. Even with as little as 1 athletics, if you are aware of where the opponent is stepping you can not be outfootworked.

People with high AGI will allways be able to out swing and counter any slow ass str build out there.

Not true. Completely false. I used to think that way too... Until I was shown repeatedly, time and time again as they top the score boards. They can even spam people who think it is impossible if they make a footwork error.

Not quoting your pros/cons because I don't agree with half of them. When it comes to mobility I agree. I don't think you've ever seen  anyone halfway decent using a strength build though. They are a little slow in walking, but not swinging.

Also you can really only benefit from str builds if you have a shitload of team mates around you because your dead in most 1vs1 situations...

No, They are really good in 1v1 situations. And even better in cluster fucks like a large battle or siege since they can take a beating.

[Lezard]

It's a great idea. It may make armor even more worthwhile.

I'd take more skill over luck anyday.

[Konrax]

In all honesty for the sake of throwing a realism argument out there:

Almost all the cut weapons aside from the biggest 2h swords would do almost nothing to full plate armour not matter how strong of a sword arm you have. Even mere chain mail armour can stop a Katana with almost no damage done to the armour.

I think since in Native the armour didn't go as high as the armour we have in the Mod and if anything the soak should be even higher on the full plate armours.

A tin can is supposed to be dangerous, I remember my first tin can kill back in early CRPG days, I had to bash the sucker with my morning star twice in the head and two more times in the chest using it one handed. That was a thrill since I saw tin cans merk my entire team before and was a very rewarding feeling.

In all honesty when your fighting a tin can you should have to have a viable can opener to effectively kill them, it shouldn't be easily done just because you have a decent sword and high powerstrike when really the only chance you would have is ONLY on the stab.

That's my 2 copper.

[Paul]

Most people don't seem to understand. With my change tin cans will take MORE hits on average than it is now. It just makes "close eyes, swing wildly, hope that the opponent bounces" less likely to work.

[Tzar]

Most people don't seem to understand. With my change tin cans will take MORE hits on average than it is now. It just makes "close eyes, swing wildly, hope that the opponent bounces" less likely to work.

Use a freakin blunt or peirce weapon if you must insist on only using 4 PS on your face hug builds....

Or you want cut weapons to be jack of all trades??...

The steel pick and warhammer ect ect serve that purpose to wreck havoc upon heavy armor thats there role

/End thread

[Paul]

no end thread, sry.

[Tzar]

Paul i just dont understand you it really makes no sense for this change besides if your a AGI stacker and dont wanna invest points in PS.. or carry an anti armor weapon.. 

[Tears of Destiny]

Paul i just dont understand you it really makes no sense for this change besides if your a AGI stacker and dont wanna invest points in PS..

I think you are not fully understanding what Paul is trying to present here...

This personally seems like a slight rebalance, one that would slightly increase the power of Agil builds (and they already fall behind STR builds), and at the same time make One-Shotting slightly harder (which is a good thing, right?).

This is merely a small balance, trying to even the difference between AGL and STR.

[Tzar]

I think you are not fully understanding what Paul is trying to present here...

I do he wanna increase the amount of hits you can take wearing expensive high tier armor vs heavy hitters.

This i can agree on since it make no sense wearing high tier vs heavy hitters in the first place as it is now.

But he also wanna reduce the chance of glance and bounce for people with low PS/PD

This i dont agree on since its just a buff to AGI stackers who if they wanted could use one of the many anti armor weapons available to em if they have problem spammin tin cans to dead

Or am i missing something?

[zagibu]

but ideally even a lvl 1 peasant with a wooden stick should be able to kill a lvl 30 in plate, it might have to take him 100 blows but now its impossible because of the bounce you just get spammed.

Why should a level 1 peasant with a wooden stick be able to kill a knight in plate? I see neither gameplay scenarios nor often scoffed upon ties to reality that could validate such a situation.

[Tears of Destiny]

Why should a level 1 peasant with a wooden stick be able to kill a knight in plate? I see neither gameplay scenarios nor often scoffed upon ties to reality that could validate such a situation.

Blunt trauma, I suppose if it was a rather large stick, made of oak or some such thing that is suitably dense, then the knight might crumple after being hit in the head enough (even counting padding). Kinetic shockwaves can do some damage (As some tests have proven by hitting a chestpiece filled with gelatin in slowmo with a large axe or mace)...

I am unsure though if this particular point of a peasant with a stick needs much of a concern in this game though, as this is dying from a thousand bruises so to speak.

[Paul]

A peasant with a stick will most likely still bounce while a level 20 player will bounce less on a perfect attack. Attacks with bad sweetspot position will still bounce becasue of the hefty penalty they receive.