0.5.2.4: Auto-Balance, and other Balancings

[Asheram]

Being a dictator and all, I pushed through some changes to weapons that balancing team was unaware of. So, don't blame them, blame me instead.

I take responsibility for the following changes
Long Voulge: Removed 4d mode. (Longest 2d polearm having 4d, while shorter weapons than it did not was absurd)
Executioner Sword: 1->2 Slots. (Change that should have been done in conjunction with xbow slot change)
Shepherd Axe: Length 95->73. (Model was incorrect size based on files Weren sent me. But considering this axe filled a nice niche, I might revert this change)
Elite Scimitar: Damage 33->32. (Damage buff of 2 several patches ago was a bit much)
Two Handed Warhammer: Damage 32->34. (Having it do less damage than its 1h counterpart did not make sense)
Blunt Soak: Reduction to soak damage increased from 1.3 to 1.4. (Currently blunt damage is the best damage at practically all levels of armor. Changing this should make pierce the most effective for highest armor values, as it should be)

I still love you the only change I dont like is the light xbow nerf.

[DaveUKR]

Changes since a few months ago Keep in mind balancing xbows has been ongoing with armor soak changes.
Less mobility - via item weight
Less Accuracy - via accuracy
Less damage - via armor soak
Less Side arm choices - Slot changes
More expensive - Upkeep increase
Increase in ammo count of the unused bolts by 1.
Decreased strength requirement on arb and heavy by 1 to allow higher diversification of builds. If you want to go high strength xbow hybrid go for it. Its still incredibly effective and will perform range and melee functions just fine. forcefully restricting that to be the ONLY playstyle will only increase the melee prowess and tankiness of the class. Yes, they won't run as much anymore but they will instead function with completely viable higher ps builds with higher iron flesh and higher armor. Especially if you pare it with an accuracy increase it would require even less wpf investment to be useful. This is not the direction I think is ideal.

Eldest doesn't mean wisest.


Further work on class balance autobalancer will continue. You are welcome you ungrateful fucks.

What a guy. Now show me at least one player who has high STR investments while playing xbowman to be more effective in melee.
What diversity are you talking about? Check bloody numbers before you do something. I'm tired to point out that you don't do any calculation before you make some changes.

The problem is clear: xbowmen can have a lot of WPF and athletics while having a lot of bolts to shoot. With heavy crossbow it's an ultimate build: you're effective on all ranges. You never run out of bolts because you can carry 2 stacks (17 steel bolts or even 23 regular bolts!), you run faster than anyone else (simply not a single class can have as much running speed as you) so you can just run away if you don't want to engage in melee and reload behind the corner, you can have 150 melee wpf with maximum crossbow wpf (which is more than some dedicated melee players), add a 1 slot decent blunt/pierce weapon and speed bonus from your insane agi+ath stats => ultimate build on all ranges that doesn't really have a counter.

The power of hybrid crossbowmen is in their high AGI. Higher STR in this case means worse melee capabilities. And going from 12 to 16 STR for heavy xbow or from 15 to 18 for arbalest won't allow you get a better armor without penalty since you start getting bonuses for effective weight from 18 STR with 0 IF because 6 is the minimal cap (18/3 = 6, quickmaffs for you because you can't do it yourself).

Expect even more kiting xbowmen (added to the horde of other ranged) and raging players. I give up. From Tydeus retarded "creativity over balance" you went to new era of "diversity over balance", congratulations.

[Grumbs]

If the goal is to make xbowers less effective in melee just make xbows 4 slot across the board except for hunting xbow. Then balance using speed, accuracy, damage etc so they all have slightly different bonuses/weaknesses independent of the slots they need.

Then increase the str required and they won't be able to 100% avoid melee while still having access to weaker melee weapons than pure melee. You can even decrease the weight of 0 slot weapons so they get more weapon stun. Lots of options for making xbowers less of a jack of all trades with no weaknesses in melee

[Thorvic]

Item name: Executioner Sword
Why you believe you deserve compensation: I bought it when it had been turned into a 1-slot weapon a few months ago, because it had an interest for me. But now it isn't any longer, i have no interest using it, i'll consider switching to a longer 2-slot weapon that I could use as horseman. I won't be very mad if you don't accept my request, but it would be nice from you to consider it at least

[Man of Steel]

Item name: Executioner Sword
Why you believe you deserve compensation: I bought it when it had been turned into a 1-slot weapon a few months ago, because it had an interest for me. But now it isn't any longer, i have no interest using it, i'll consider switching to a longer 2-slot weapon that I could use as horseman. I won't be very mad if you don't accept my request, but it would be nice from you to consider it at least

I also bought it because it was 1 slot. Making it 2 slots is not really fair, it is as long as an 1 Hand Sword, and it should be semilar to the other 1 slot 2-Handed weps, like Dadao, Military Sickle, Fighting Axe,

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

attn all former executioner sword users, i implore you to check out the lombardic sword. 1h sword with 2h secondary mode, plus it just feels right

[Ikarus]

@Blackbow

When an xbower is shooting you, you generaly dont know where he is.

that's pretty much the point of being xbow. Archers can play like that aswell, they're just not that forced to this playstyle

and because archers are priority target and an easy target for xbowers, archers will be fucked so hard...

you say that as if it was a bad thing    jokes aside, I get your point. 21 str for arba is lunacy though, not even I would touch that weapon again and I love arba

@Dave

Now show me at least one player who has high STR investments while playing xbowman to be more effective in melee.

I got 18 str because I don't want to run away all the time and help my teammates when they're in trouble, ganking in melee is how I often get kills. Nevertheless I see that a lvl33 15/27 arba build with 9 wp/ath, 5ps and 3 if or 3 shield is a tempting build. Actually that's an upright scary build with the shield 

plz don't be mean

@Nightingale
I appreciate your hard work on achieving a good balance for xbow (and a good balance in general!). You keep saying though that there needs to be more diversity in playing xbow and that's exactly what people, even xbows, currently don't want.

There's already a lot of diversity possible and dave's raise of str requirement wouldn't reduce this diversity, it would just make it a bit more challenging to achieve. Would it result in fewer cookie-cutter classes? Yes, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, other classes have that too and in the end it always results in cookie cutters (with deviations ofc).
That's also why xbow is currently such a touchy subject, people are just so fed up with it. There was a decrease of 1str for xbow, heavy and arba an as you can see, people went apeshit about that, despise some accuracy and damage nerfs which were overlooked ofc (higher upkeep doesn't really count since most people are rich af).

Dave's Strength increase would have effectively removed a more dedicated more invested arbalest build and buffed melee hybridization.

150wpf are enough for arba, the dedicated weak melee all arba build you mean would be 15/30 with pinpoint accuracy which nobody will use anyways. Why? Long range shots aren't that much worth it for xbow because people move too much (which would result in a wasted shot) and no matter how dedicated a build is, the damage output of xbow stays the same anyways (speaking of long range shots, actually I got the feeling that targets that are farer away get way less damage by my bolts, but maybe that's just my imagination?).

A balanced xbow/melee build is way more effective and fun to play

(click to show/hide)

Less mobility - via item weight
Less Accuracy - via accuracy
Less damage - via armor soak
Less Side arm choices - Slot changes
More expensive - Upkeep increase
Increase in ammo count of the unused bolts by 1

Those were good changes. Just increase the str requirement up to 2-3 points and it'll be fine.

[harrier]

Item name:Executioner Sword
Why you believe you deserve compensation:

got it to use it as sidearm for great maul and my archer, now I can't anymore

[BlackxBird]

Long Voulge: Removed 4d mode. (Longest 2d polearm having 4d, while shorter weapons than it did not was absurd)
(It was a funny weapon, but the side sings were totally unusefull. U couldn't use them in teamfight but in a duel it was a way to actually compete with others. But now u made it a teamfight only weapon like the pike and I like that.)

Executioner Sword: 1->2 Slots. (Change that should have been done in conjunction with xbow slot change)
(Only reason to buy this sword is because it is 1slot. A slow short 2H weapon is not used by anyone.)

Shepherd Axe: Length 95->73. (Model was incorrect size based on files Weren sent me. But considering this axe filled a nice niche, I might revert this change)
(OMFG PLEASE DON'T. MOST RIDICULOUS GHOSTRANGE SINCE THOSE DANE AXES. Keep that bitch short. Thank u so much for that.)

Elite Scimitar: Damage 33->32. (Damage buff of 2 several patches ago was a bit much)
(Even with the buff Scimmi was still useless like all the other cut 1H)

Two Handed Warhammer: Damage 32->34. (Having it do less damage than its 1h counterpart did not make sense)
(Thanks I was complainging about that for ages! But a nerf for the 1H warhammer would have been cooler )
Blunt Soak: Reduction to soak damage increased from 1.3 to 1.4. (Currently blunt damage is the best damage at practically all levels of armor. Changing this should make pierce the most effective for highest armor values, as it should be)
No. WTF? This is kinda more complicated.
Blunt (Thats how it was in chadz times) is the strongest possible damage type and glances least. The lower the armor goes, the stronger pierce becomes compared to it. BUT NOW: If u have a raw dmg of 60 or more (So kinda only Awlpike and Morningstarplayers) pierce does slightly more dmg all around. Up onto a max of 7 percent at 100 raw dmg. So plz don't make my Great Maul weaker. If u guys want the whole mod to go shielder, Im fine with that. But don't take my Great Maul away from me then

[_Tamra_]

Might also mention that the Rapier misses any thrust dmg on it's 2nd mode.
So you basically glance every stab with 0 dmg. Either remove the thrust on 2nd mode or add the pierce value (which would make the 1st useless)

[Yeldur]

Might also mention that the Rapier misses any thrust dmg on it's 2nd mode.
So you basically glance every stab with 0 dmg. Either remove the thrust on 2nd mode or add the pierce value (which would make the 1st useless)

I thought it was down to the secondary mode, now I know for sure, make it like the Rondel dagger, one is for up left and right swings, other is for stab! Simples!

[Life]

Why does some heirloomed gear INCREASE weight? while most gear, including all the heavy armor, have no weight penalty increase when you loom it

[Jona]

Why does some heirloomed gear INCREASE weight? while most gear, including all the heavy armor, have no weight penalty increase when you loom it

A whole bunch of non-sword weapons (maces, mauls, axes, and the like) gain weight when you loom them. This is a good thing as it helps you resist crushthrough and increases your chances to stun opponents'  weapons if they block your swing.

[Life]

A whole bunch of non-sword weapons (maces, mauls, axes, and the like) gain weight when you loom them. This is a good thing as it helps you resist crushthrough and increases your chances to stun opponents'  weapons if they block your swing.

i meant just body armor. sorry.

[Jona]

i meant just body armor. sorry.

Ah, in that case clearly just to nerf you in particular, since no one else uses the courtly outfit.