On The Grind

[HeroZero]

Let me get this out of the way first. I love this mod and furthermore the game that provides this mod's core gameplay. I think that both patches brought a lot of good along with the expected patch day stutters.

That's only loosely what this topic is about.

This topic is about the grind. The funny thing about grind is that it walks a very fine line between fun and engaging and absolutely soul crushing. Without grind the game will get boring and lose its flavor quickly as people reach their respective maxes. The game in this patch is now reaching its later days and players hitting the softcap of 30 are becoming more and more common, and with this comes a certain lethargy. Without retiring, and its benefits, what more is to do? Run around and destroy peasants? That's fun for an afternoon, but then it grows stale.

The grind is a necessary part of RPGish game, it births and maintains an attachment to the character that you've built with your own hands, with your time, with your skills. Without it, it might as well be Native, with too much we might as well play some Korean MMO with a cashshop and 6mil exp levels.

Bring back retirement soon, I can already see numbers in the NA servers dwindling. 

[Radix]

and theres the problem. Is it more of an RPG or more of a Slasher???  what do WE want?? what does chadz want it to be?? its rly hard to say, I got feeling that some aspects of the mod went more in direction of slash game, and i mean the 30lvl soft cap, easy lvling and cheap equip for everyone policy, but on the other hand upkeep thing made it a bit more RPGish than before. But thats the problem, we go either full rpg or full slash native like gameplay, cose being in between is never good.

[Gorath]

Without retiring, and its benefits, what more is to do? Run around and destroy peasants?

/facepalm
How about fight people your own level and gear, hone your skills, try to push the tide of victory into your teams favor, challenge that tin can with the 2her spamming away and see if you can bring him down, challenge yourself with less armor and a lower tier weapon vs the enemies... You know, actually fight and play the game?  If all you can think of is crushing peasants then it kind of shows what your overall goal in the game was to begin with.  Personally I'd rather look for the specific names out there of good players and try to take them out.

[Silent]

Well, what I'm experiencing is a huge inflation. In previous version i hardly grinded for my next retirement, but now...

[SalmonGod]

I don't understand why there needs to constantly be something to "work" towards... the act of playing the game should be it.  If playing isn't fun in itself, then something is wrong.

[Amroth]

I don't understand why there needs to constantly be something to "work" towards... the act of playing the game should be it.  If playing isn't fun in itself, then something is wrong.

Having something to work for is exactly what separates this mod from native. It's what keeps games fun for a long time.

[Cyclopsided]

Having something to work for is exactly what separates this mod from native. It's what keeps games fun for a long time.

I fundamentally disagree with you.
What makes this mod fun is customization, it is why we came here. You get to have good struggles with whatever you decide to go with, your pros and cons.
You also seem to fight people with much higher skill here than at native. You get much more of a good challenge and a more fun experience.

[Goretooth]

Nice

[Armpit_Sweat]

/facepalm
How about fight people your own level and gear, hone your skills, try to push the tide of victory into your teams favor, challenge that tin can with the 2her spamming away and see if you can bring him down, challenge yourself with less armor and a lower tier weapon vs the enemies... You know, actually fight and play the game?  If all you can think of is crushing peasants then it kind of shows what your overall goal in the game was to begin with.  Personally I'd rather look for the specific names out there of good players and try to take them out.

When I read your post ( not just this one, and not only on this forum ), i get a feeling you need to play Takken on a console. The original M&B WB is not a button smashing arcade beat'em'up. Its an RPG. Its about building you char.

Taken from M&B WB official page:

"There are no limits in Calradia, your story and game-play experiences are truly unique."

The pre-patched cRPG proved it!

One who is looking for a "competitive multi-player game" ( as one smart guy called cRPG ), with global scoreboards and such - will not buy Mount&Blade. He will buy CoD or Street Fighter. They are polished and offer more to one, who seeks that type of game-play.

Butt-hurt pre-patched peasants will reach lvl 30, smash buttons for few evenings, and move on. Even though not you, chadz ( concluded from his posts ), and many others care about it.

Whatever made cRPG unique - is gone. Upkeep? Xp/gold system? Lvl cap? I have no idea. But its not there anymore.

646 hours of cRPG played... I might push it to 666 just for the sakes of it hehe

[HeroZero]

/facepalm
How about fight people your own level and gear, hone your skills, try to push the tide of victory into your teams favor, challenge that tin can with the 2her spamming away and see if you can bring him down, challenge yourself with less armor and a lower tier weapon vs the enemies... You know, actually fight and play the game?  If all you can think of is crushing peasants then it kind of shows what your overall goal in the game was to begin with.  Personally I'd rather look for the specific names out there of good players and try to take them out.

I'm going to extrapolate an entire play style from one sentence! I'm Gorath!

[HeroZero]

I always aim for people in heavier armor/recognizable kit. If I see a PrideCrusher or someone similar I aim for them. It's more fun to fight someone that has the potential to absolutely crush you.

Recently I switched from 1h and shield to polearm (even though I have 1 WPF in it) and I'm having more fun. It's frustrating, because I'd love to retire my guy into a polearm user.

[Gorath]

When I read your post ( not just this one, and not only on this forum ), i get a feeling you need to play Takken on a console. The original M&B WB is not a button smashing arcade beat'em'up. Its an RPG. Its about building you char. 

I absolutely loved playing Tekken series on my old PS, SF series, etc etc.  Many many FPS's as well.
I also enjoyed RPG's (both table top pen and paper ones from chainmail *pre-D&D, D&D from Gygax* onward)
However in a PVP game, and make no mistake about it - WB is a PVP focused game, skill-based combat is far > than spreadsheet based combat.

Yes M&B was/is about building your character, and cRPG still has that.  However what really drew most players into the game was the combat.  Yes archery and cav combat as well, but primarily the amazing melee system.  A PVP focused game with skill-based combat doesn't need mindless grind for grinds sake.  Spreadsheet online is completely counter to the idea of a competitive PVP game.  All MMO's have proven this.  WoW pvp is like this, and it's a joke.  AoC is better, but still a joke, DarkFail= joke, WAR-joke.  THIS is a good PVP RPG and it doesn't need grind because the gameplay itself is so fantastic.  More MMO's should take note when they try to proclaim themselves "PVP" games.

[Ishar]

I absolutely loved playing Tekken series on my old PS, SF series, etc etc.  Many many FPS's as well.
I also enjoyed RPG's (both table top pen and paper ones from chainmail *pre-D&D, D&D from Gygax* onward)
However in a PVP game, and make no mistake about it - WB is a PVP focused game, skill-based combat is far > than spreadsheet based combat.

Yes M&B was/is about building your character, and cRPG still has that.  However what really drew most players into the game was the combat.  Yes archery and cav combat as well, but primarily the amazing melee system.  A PVP focused game with skill-based combat doesn't need mindless grind for grinds sake.  Spreadsheet online is completely counter to the idea of a competitive PVP game.  All MMO's have proven this.  WoW pvp is like this, and it's a joke.  AoC is better, but still a joke, DarkFail= joke, WAR-joke.  THIS is a good PVP RPG and it doesn't need grind because the gameplay itself is so fantastic.  More MMO's should take note when they try to proclaim themselves "PVP" games.

Agreed.

[downer]

I agree with Gorath.

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[Mouse]

Without grind the game will get boring and lose its flavor quickly as people reach their respective maxes.

People still play Quake 3 Arena, Counter-Strike, Chess, and StarCraft: Brood War because the games had a grind. Oh wait.... no, people played those games for years or even dedicated their lives to them because they were fun to play.

Having something to work for is exactly what separates this mod from native. It's what keeps games fun for a long time.

Here's something to work on: getting better at the game! Only scrubs care about anything else.