0.5.2.0, New Year, New Balance(tm), New Beginnings

[Úlfur]

So the archers aren't completely helpless when a melee player catches up to them? Maybe they should have a fighting chance? It's not like you're gonna be able to slay experienced melee players left and right just because you have a nice, long weapon; having no weapon points in 1h.

Then why is it fair to remove them from xbow? Shouldn't xbows have a fighting chance too?

[Finse]

Xbows do, they do dmg while having power strike, archers can have it to, but wont do any dmg at all

[Beleg]

Then why is it fair to remove them from xbow? Shouldn't xbows have a fighting chance too?

they should, I didn't say otherwise. But are we sure they can't fight at all with this patch?

I'm not an expert at melee so I have to ask. Which one is better: having a mediocre (0 slot) 1h weapon and weapon points, or having a good weapon but no points?

[Butan]

I mean can you remember players like Dave_UKR?
Total Badass, this dude.

Baddassest delayer 

[zottlmarsch]

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[the real god emperor]

The problem I have is weapons like Katzbalger or Nieuweidao getting 0 slots. It seemed like it was meant for 2nd best sword in that type, like arabian arming sword, but Katzbalger and Nieuweidao.. are the best weapons of their type.

Also archers now being able to use any 1 slot weapon is going to be painful. Especially with the STR archer meta. Archers didn't need a slot change, imo. They were doing quite good what weapons were available to them, and if they wanted a bigger and better weapon they could always sacrifice some of their ammo.

Other than that arbalest getting 4 slots is a good change. Limiting them to 0 slots weapons. And the balance between arbalest and heavy xbow can easily solved with upcoming changes.

Gud patch imo.

[Nightingale]

you all might be jumping to conclusions about the inaccuracy of the arbalest. I suggest looking in server at the result of its accuracy nerf and realize it’s still entirely viable as a long range weapon. Just not pin point accurate at max investment anymore. Don’t see any issue with this. As back when I started playing xbow it was less accurate than it currently is at.

The slot changes to bow where originally meant to be like the changes to xbow but professor suggested giving archers better choices in side arms and I agree that it’s an option worth exploring.

A 0 slot weapon now is still better than a 1 slot side arm for xbowmen bc they can invest more freely into melee stats where archers can not.

Because of how the damage to accuracy ratio works with xbows it’s basically sitting where heavy is just barely more accurate. Than arb. Intention is to make people rely on less damage for long shots.

Also pls note that missile speed increase is not a dmg buff.

[Úlfur]

I don't agree on missile speed not affecting damage, speed has always affected damage. (For as far as I know)
Also, with more missile speed (compared to last version), faster reload and more acc than an arb a heavy xbow, with less str req is way better. As it frees up a point for extra WPF, which means I can reload even faster.

Compared to a heavy xbow, an arb is pretty useless now.

And I can run away faster. Which I'll need with these weak melee weapons. Let's be honest, having some Power strike doesn't turn a Flanged mace into something strong.

Though having archers with an awkpile and other strong weapons isn't really balanced either. Maybe fix the req for a bow to be good is the way to prevent all the STR archers.

[Paul]

I don't agree on missile speed not affecting damage, speed has always affected damage.

Explain please.

PS: I just found out that I have a +3 arba on one of my chars. I think it might even be Dave's.

[Úlfur]

Explain please.

PS: I just found out that I have a +3 arba on one of my chars. I think it might even be Dave's.

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Was told speed = damage. Or does that not go for ranged? But then how does damage increase if people run towards me on a horse?

But hey he probs tested it so I might be wrong.

PS: Sell the Arba now before you're stuck with it forever.

[Sharpe]

Though having archers with an awkpile and other strong weapons isn't really balanced either. Maybe fix the req for a bow to be good is the way to prevent all the STR archers.

We're not jumping to conclusions, an hour of testing on EU 3 has brought us to this conclusion.

You do realize that archers always had the option to take a bow and an awlpike right? If I wanted to to use a 2 slot two handed sword or a polearm in unison a longbow, rus bow, or yew longbow, all I had to do was use  0 slot regular arrows. Now, if you're going to say but Sharpe, those aren't god tier bodkin arrows. You're right. However, if I wanted to accomplish the same build with the aforementioned two slotted weapons I just needed to use the composite or horn bow (which are underrated bows). So the option was always there, it just makes 0 fucking sense to do it -- that is unless you enjoy glancing on your stabs and swings, or tickling your enemies to death.

[Úlfur]

that is unless you enjoy glancing on your stabs and swings, or tickling your enemies to death.

Like xbows have to now

[Sharpe]

Like xbows have to now

So when archers were/are put in that situation it's okay, but as soon as xbows are, it's suddenly a huge issue.

[Paul]

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Was told speed = damage. Or does that not go for ranged? But then how does damage increase if people run towards me on a horse?

But hey he probs tested it so I might be wrong.

PS: Sell the Arba now before you're stuck with it forever.

I have made long-ass posts on how it works. Changing shot speed does nothing directly to damage. When looking closer there is a difference though when shooter/targets moves or if there is a height difference. BUT with high shot speed launchers like the arba/h.crossbow this difference is very small.

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Arba projectile speed is 1.2*item_shot_speed= 72m/s I think. The exponent of the missile speed related damage calc has been changed to 1.0 in cRPG, thanks Tydeus. It's in the module.ini. That means it boils down to the rule of three:

damage_post_speed_calc = default_damage * impact_projectile_speed / default_projectile_speed
damage_post_speed_calc =  (default_projectile_speed + shooter_speed¹ + victim_speed¹ - speed_loss² ) * default_damage / default_projectile_speed

1: assuming shooter and victim move towards each other
2: speed loss thorugh drag or gravity when shooting upwards, can add damage when shooting downwards

In this example we shoot point blank so speed loss is 0. Then lets assume both are on a courser with 6 riding(10m/s, yes we actually measured it at some point), playing chicken. So the extra speed is 20m/s.
We would then have:
damage_post_speed_calc(horse_arba_hacker) = default_damage * (72m/s + 20m/s) / (72m/s) = 1.28 *default_damage
So 28%damage increase.

For a bit more realistic example we have both moving towards each other on foot with maybe 2m/s. So:
damage_post_speed_calc(plebs) = default_damage * (72m/s + 4m/s) / (72m/s) = 1.06 *default_damage
6% more damage.

It's all in our head.

[Westwood]

You know what Prof you're a good boy who is doing a lot of fine work on this mod you just say the word and I'll treat you to some burgers at Dick's.
I also like New Balance btw

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Had to get a tinyurl for that link to work, fucking Germans