The Ranged Problem.

[Osiris]

After coming back to crpg after what must have been a few years i can say i don't see much of a ranger problem

The Cav and Ranged on crpg are like little kittens compared to native The only problem lies with people just wanting to play classes with big advantages in melee (2h/pole str/agi) but want none of the drawbacks I may be wrong as ive only played a few days but it seems to be pretty good atm 

[Thryn]

edit @ Thryn I was hesitant to increase armor soak because doing so would nullify some damage cut based weapons do more so than the pierce damage standard of range. While yes it would effectively reduce range damage it would also result in the majority of the population's primary weapons dealing significantly less damage. I have done zero playtests of various melee builds I'm not really sure how melee dmg stands atm I'm pretty busy testing throwing/xbow/archery. [/color]

ye cut has some falloff on armor, but atm i think that damage is still blowing armor out of the water anyway

i hope that armor gets buffed via soak and then by changing gold, we can reduce the prevalence of plate

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Grumbs]

I rarely get shot and if I do its a mistake on my part though even then the damage is laughable. as a medium armored range player seeing an arbalest do a mere 45% of my HP seems a bit off when you compare the stories that people say about taking 90% of their hp.

I have done zero playtests of various melee builds I'm not really sure how melee dmg stands atm 

Something you don't really acknowledge is that as a medium armour ranged guy you can also shoot the guy doing "merely 45%" of your health. A pure melee player can't. I also find it comical that you side with Heskey in that if you get shot then it can only be your own fault. This is just piling up the evidence that you don't really see the game from any perspective but as a ranged player.

What if you made pure melee characters compensate the damage they can't deal from a distance and make their weapons 3-4 slots like arbalists? Then buff their damage so they are 100-200% more damage than now?

I mean the game is rock paper scissors anyway, might as well make it so its ranged, cav, melee rather than ranged (99% same as a melee class too), cav, melee

[_uwu_]

this thread is gay wtf

[Blackbow]

Good joke Blackbow Doing that would make xbows pinpoint accurate...
but its already the case,xbow accuracy is insane with or without 0 wpf, since when str improve xbow accuracy?
is it not suposed to be wpf?

and make 0 wpf a more than viable option so you'd have strength builds with 1 wpf able to headshot reliably from even further than 185 WPF does now.
none of other ranged class can now have so much wpf and deal so much damage so when are you taking that in consideration to balance xbows ?


Not to mention 65 damage just doesn't cut it. After armor soak values and the randomness of dmg you will produce about as much damage as you could do with a stick in melee against fully armored opponents.
this one is pure lie and bullshit ! re watch damage test made by thryn, on a 21/21 char with 7 if and 62 body armor without moving i loose 80% of my hp


Ik this because that is what Raylin attempted to do and it failed very horribly. The rate of fire was incredibly slow and a horn bow out damaged arbalest every single shot. at a more than double the rate of fire.  I'm sorry to say but your buddy's balance just does not work, like at all.
i agree he failed at balancing but he tried atleast, unlike you who refuse any change and want to keep your favorit class op as fuck when all ranged class are close to be balanced
even when all the community is telling you xbow are too powerfull you dont listen !
so now its time to find solutions !

Arbalest does around 28-40 damage on average reducing damage by 20 would move the average to a whopping 8-20 dmg range
once again this bull shit, like i said i lost 80% of my hp removing 20 dmg from arbalest should just take only 50 and 60% of my hp
wich is already the double of a medium archery build

Needless to say, weight does have a significant impact on how range players play their class. Increasing bolt weight and xbow weight increased weight of the average xbow user with (1 slot of bolts) by about 50% if they added another slot of bolts they received extra punishment to their kiting abilities.
dude open your eyes plz all xbowers on eu server are still kiting and nobody is able to catch them...

Xbowers are unable to effectively run away if they sport anything that is considered light armor.
once again open your eyes come spec on eu server they all can run away and its the last ranged class who still can
same thing goes for other ranged about light armor...

they can maintain distance but they will be unable to use their primary weapon effectively taking them out of the game.
yeah like archers who cant put any point in melee because they have to spend all wpf in archery with a str build to be able to do a bit of damage


As is you can't even really melee well with the arbalest in your inventory to defend yourself you have to drop your primary weapon and fight near it so you might have a chance of picking it back up again.
actually ofc you can because most of xbowers have around 24 agi so enough wpf to split between melee and xbow
and they dont have pd/pt requierement so xbowers still can put point in power strike where archers and throwers cant.


100% of xbowers do not use blunt weapons the majority of xbowers in NA use cut based side arms.
what is actual na population ? because on eu we are around 100 players everyday and 20 or 30 of them are xbowers
90% of them are using blunt weapons

my build at level 30 is as follows:
16-27
4 athletics
2 power strike
9 weapon master

185 wpf in xbow
77 wpf in 1h.
come eu1 pick some names check their build in database and face reality for once in your life...
they all have 8 ath 8 wm 5 or 6 ps


I use a Stick as a sidearm or a Niuweidao depending on how I want to play.

I am with Heskey on the whole range doesn't really bother me on any of my characters. I rarely get shot and if I do its a mistake on my part though even then the damage is laughable. as a medium armored range player seeing an arbalest do a mere 45% of my HP seems a bit off when you compare the stories that people say about taking 90% of their hp.
you are such of bad faith dude it's insane when ppl speak about 90% it is true but when many people is telling you this you should think about it and start to question yourself


edit @ Thryn I was hesitant to increase armor soak because doing so would nullify some damage cut based weapons do more so than the pierce damage standard of range. While yes it would effectively reduce range damage it would also result in the majority of the population's primary weapons dealing significantly less damage. I have done zero playtests of various melee builds I'm not really sure how melee dmg stands atm I'm pretty busy testing throwing/xbow/archery.

SO A FULL COMMUNITY IS TELLING YOU THAN XBOWS ARE TOO POWERFULL, ARE YOU KEEPING LISTENING YOURSELF OR FINALY LISTEN THE COMMUNITY AND PROPOSING SOME SOLUTIONS BECAUSE WE ARE WAITING FOR IT AND YOU KEEP DEFENDING IT LIKE IF YOU DONT WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING !!!

imo you should get fire from this item balancer job because you did nothing and you refuse any change... wich is bad qulity for an item balancer. and im sure than the stats i proposed would work !

just to resume, actualy xbowers can :
- wpf in both stats (mele/range)
- high ath and kite like archers in old times
- dont need to use 0 slots weapon
- an insane accuracy at close and middle range (even long range for some good players)
- wear 2 stack of bolts because 0 slot
- and deal insane damage

archers and throwers can just have one of those...
 

dont you feel like it's a bit too much? i'm the only one ? no !

sry for frankly speaking but i'm like this !
oh and can we balance crpg about what is happening on eu servers ? wich are the most populated actually ?
because xbowers are killing it atm

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

I don't think crossbows themselves are too powerful, I think their melee component is too strong. Bump arbalest strength requirement to 21, nerf low proficiency melee weapons hard. Also do something about shotgunning, make the accuracy far worse when moving and maybe increase the nudge range from when they have their bows bent or crossbows aimed.

[Butan]

just to resume, actualy xbowers can :
- high ath and kite like archers in old times
 

Kiting xbowers 

Crossbows are debatedly (important part here) too strong for the cost to character build they impose (compared to throwing and bows) but the fact that they cant kite and never have been able to is their natural weakness/counter part since forever. No need to add imaginary cool points to crossbows to further argue in favor of their nerfing.

[RD_Professor]

To the people in the thread who think that our balancers want to have xbows be OP, and refuse to change the class whatsoever, you are grossly mistaken. To those who propose damage/accuracy nerfs expecting them to completely solve the problem, they will not. The truth is, the stats of Xbows are rather complicated and coupled together, in such a way that changes to one stat will cause changes to another. As such, finding a solution to this isn't easy. So, give it time, our balancers are working on balancing the class.

[Thryn]

Kiting xbowers 

Crossbows are debatedly (important part here) too strong for the cost to character build they impose (compared to throwing and bows) but the fact that they cant kite and never have been able to is their natural weakness/counter part since forever. No need to add imaginary cool points to crossbows to further argue in favor of their nerfing.

ye, as a crossbow you can run away and avoid melee, but the reload speed means that generally you aren't going to get another shot off until that person stops chasing you. if you are using a light or hunting crossbow you could probably say that they have some kiting ability (not much if you compare it to archery), but anything above the light xbows = no kiting. btw, by kiting i mean the ability to run & do damage, not just running around being aggravating.

[Blackbow]

Kiting xbowers 

Crossbows are debatedly (important part here) too strong for the cost to character build they impose (compared to throwing and bows) but the fact that they cant kite and never have been able to is their natural weakness/counter part since forever. No need to add imaginary cool points to crossbows to further argue in favor of their nerfing.

dude believe me the kiting power of xbowers never been so op, kiting as an archer or a thrower is barely not possible anymore because the weight of equipement and the str needed for their builds...
same for infantrie who look like never been so far in str investement ( i mean the majority not exeption like you,
the old good mendatory 6ps became 7ps and i see many ppl speaking of 8ps to avoid glancing)

ofc kiting is maybe not the good term when we speak about xbowers, but with their agi build if they want to run away to reload then coming back and shooting at you... they can very easily and you will never hit them...

To the people in the thread who think that our balancers want to have xbows be OP, and refuse to change the class whatsoever, you are grossly mistaken. To those who propose damage/accuracy nerfs expecting them to completely solve the problem, they will not. The truth is, the stats of Xbows are rather complicated and coupled together, in such a way that changes to one stat will cause changes to another. As such, finding a solution to this isn't easy. So, give it time, our balancers are working on balancing the class.

i have strong doubt about the integrity of nightingale and im not the only one...
few years ago you was not in dev team i think and he was already refusing any change.

now to me the best and simple way to balance xbows is by increasing str requierment
explain me how the most powerfull weapon in game just need 16 str ?
why dont you make a try/test for like one week and see what happen ?
and why not give 0 slot quivers to archers  like for xbowers? and allow them to use real weapons and not 0 slots one ?

the stats im proposing are very close of what we had in the old xp system

Arbalest
Requirement: old 16 strength new 24 strength
Thrust: old 85 pierce new 65 pierce

Heavy Crossbow
Requirement: old 14 strength new 21 strength
Thrust: old 74 pierce new 60 pierce

Crossbow
Requirement: old 12 strength new 18 strength
Thrust: old 60 pierce new 55 pierce

Light Crossbow
Requirement: old 9 strength new 15
Thrust: old 53 pierce new 50 pierce

Hunting Crossbow
Requirement: old 7 strength new 12 strength
Thrust: old 48 pierce new 45 pierce

[Grytviken]

Anyone who thinks you can't kite with an xbow hasn't tried this build out.

Not only are you going to be the fastest person on the server, you can also 1-2 shot anyone, and you don't even need the Arb or bolts loomed.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Osiris]

extremely specialised builds dont really count in this context my 9pt stone thrower can 2-3 shot some rangers but its useless at anything else, doesn't mean throwing is now op.

I honestly dont think you can really nerf rangers much more just because people dont want to take shields.
I think most of the complaints about rangers are due to the maps, give people a spot to camp and shoot from with little to no risk and they will take it

[ArcherHelot]

Just pls nerf xgaymansbowmans
They reproduce every day

[Gravoth_iii]

Just give archers more firing speed

[ArcherHelot]

Just give archers more firing speed

GOD NO PLS NOT
Do not make out of this mod fkn counter-strike

(click to show/hide)

as in native