The Ranged Problem.

[Larvae]

Honestly,make them xbows more inacurate or whatever...ppl leaving servers again because of this pest.i just tried it myself,took a normal xbow with 1 wpf an could shoot without  problems into kurwaarchers head from our to their spawn.they have to be nerfed in any way....everyone now got a xbow or some sort of ranged.its just annoying af...
Also horses are useless,since they die within seconds.

[Nehvar]

The amount of fake news in that post...

[Gravoth_iii]

Please Tristan. Less ammo because you shoot less in a round anyway. There is no shot delay. You can't move only in the first part of the reload. STR archers are not mobile at all, and only true STR archers can hold their bown drawn for 5-6 seconds. And they deal 25-30 damage on the body, while an arbalest bolt deals minimum 60 regardless of armor. And an archer shooting the same target twice is much, much harder than a crossbowman hitting his target once. There is no big reason why "reloading" as a skill isn't a good solution.

But an xbow hitting his target once is also lower chance than a bow hitting once. Archers have a higher potential, i would say.

[Ikarus]

instead of nerfing ranged why not buff everything else? Horses are currently pretty much made out of paper

[Drunken_sailor]

^^^ this is the proper idea, buffing is much better than nerfing

[Grytviken]

http://forum.melee.org/announcements/04-5-4/

Again, I'll refer to the problem where all range weapons got a huge 25-30% projectile speed increase, making their damage falloff way further and also making it way harder to dodge and juke arrows and bolts. Getting shot at mid range is what getting shot at point blank used to be because of the huge projectile speed increase.

Imagine giving all melee weapons a flat 25% speed increase lol...

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Longbow                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| missile speed                                               | 29                             | 40                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Arbalest                   Missile Speed      62

LOL

[Grumbs]

instead of nerfing ranged why not buff everything else? Horses are currently pretty much made out of paper

Cavalry are already really strong. I do think that you can buff counters to cavalry though (polearms), but its hard to buff counters to ranged. Cavalry can't always go were the ranged players are especially with ladders, and shields are only really a soft counter. They remove the damage but only when certain conditions are met, and that only works at range. When you get into melee range its then melee vs melee which kind of cancels each other out. I would like melee vs melee to favour a melee focussed character, but then you kind of reduce the skill vs skill nature of the game. I think its better overall to have a mixture of making pure melee classes stronger in melee than they are, and making ranged classes a bit less dominant in groups like they are now. I think a first measure would be to make xbowers adhere to the same sort of build malluses that other classes have (make them require PD so they get fewer stats/skill points to spend), and maybe increase the weight of ranged weapons

The main counter to ranged has always been more ranged. Its like a feedback loop that occurs when people feel there is too much ranged - they play ranged to shoot the ranged guys. You don't go shield to kill them because its not a proper counter

Anyway happy christmas. Its nice to talk about nerf ranged in 2017 (and nearly 2018)

[Grytviken]

Cavalry are already really strong. I do think that you can buff counters to cavalry though (polearms), but its hard to buff counters to ranged. Cavalry can't always go were the ranged players are especially with ladders, and shields are only really a soft counter. They remove the damage but only when certain conditions are met, and that only works at range. When you get into melee range its then melee vs melee which kind of cancels each other out. I would like melee vs melee to favour a melee focussed character, but then you kind of reduce the skill vs skill nature of the game. I think its better overall to have a mixture of making pure melee classes stronger in melee than they are, and making ranged classes a bit less dominant in groups like they are now. I think a first measure would be to make xbowers adhere to the same sort of build malluses that other classes have (make them require PD so they get fewer stats/skill points to spend), and maybe increase the weight of ranged weapons

The main counter to ranged has always been more ranged. Its like a feedback loop that occurs when people feel there is too much ranged - they play ranged to shoot the ranged guys. You don't go shield to kill them because its not a proper counter

Anyway happy christmas. Its nice to talk about nerf ranged in 2017 (and nearly 2018)

Shield weight should be lowered so they can actually run down range and kill them and not get kited all over.

[Beleg]

I'll suck an admins dick who makes a sticky that says archers can't kite anymore. Please people for fuckssake, archers are slow now. They can't outrun you.

[Grumbs]

EU1 is utter shite to play atm. Like not fun at all

[BlackxBird]

You guys wanna know how everyone will be fine again? Stop playing ranged. If Algarn, Panos, Blackbow or crossbowbimbo.... all those people who ALWAYS play ranged actually play ranged it is ok. But if there are whole bannerstacks with crossbows people will stop playing as there is no real counter, as long as the map is not enirely open.

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[Uther Pendragon]

I know it's obvious at this point, but the dev team, specifically Professor, and our balancers are looking into the issue, and it is taking as much time as it is going to take because we want to actually do a good job of fixing the ranged issue for MORE than 1 class, without fucking up the other classes or making any of them obsolete/useless. It's not as simple as tweaking accuarcy/damage values, and it requires more time to make sure we do a good job with it, instead of another "your mother asshole i tragedy" nerf.

[Grumbs]

Why have balancers always been so hesitant to do something specifically about xbows though?

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

In my opinion the issue is ranged can take care of themselves too well in melee. I think buffing the impact WPF has at higher melee levels (say 100+) would fix this as not only would it make melee fights faster and therefore more fun, but it would make non-dedicated melee players less effective against fully proficient melee players. If I'm not mistaken archery is more strength focused now anyway meaning kiting is less of an issue, crossbows however do still have the issue where they can get 100+ in melee, plus 7-8 athletics. This would be fixed by increasing the strength requirement for crossbows as well as the WPF required to be effective with them meaning you need to go all in with a shotgun build with a hunting crossbow or go full ranged with an arbalest but you won't be so effective in melee or be able to kite.

It would nerf strength builds melee builds indirectly though, I don't know what people's stances are on this.

[Grytviken]

Why have balancers always been so hesitant to do something specifically about xbows though? Since early in the mod there has been some bias there. Its not like they have ever been at a point where they are nerfed so they aren't used.

Anyway I don't want to be too harsh but its been a fact since very early on that xbowers get some elevated status in this mod

The balancer exclusively plays xbow only, but it's only a coincidence it continues to get buffed over and over while everything else is left unchanged.