The Ranged Problem.

[Gristle]

There is no sensible reason why archers and throwers need to take points away from other areas so they can use their ranged weapon but crossbowers don't. Yet their effectiveness as a ranged class is the same as a bowman

I do have to make sacrifices to use my crossbow, just not as much as an archer. The idea behind it is bows take training, while crossbows are like medieval guns. Just pull the trigger. The balancing factor should be mobility.

You want to talk about the way it used to be? Look at my avatar. At that time, all of those items were 1 slot.

[Xesta]

I do have to make sacrifices to use my crossbow, just not as much as an archer. The idea behind it is bows take training, while crossbows are like medieval guns. Just pull the trigger. The balancing factor should be mobility.

You want to talk about the way it used to be? Look at my avatar. At that time, all of those items were 1 slot.

It's not just about "just pull the trigger". Do you even know how much strength is needed without a cocking device to draw a crossbow? And no you guys are not using a cocking device ingame. You need over 140kg strength MINIMUM to pull back the crossbow.

It is simple, really, just put in POWER DRAW for crossbow archers so they are able to even pull back the crossbow. So you need more strength and also more power draw to be able to shoot a bolt with it in the first place. That would make fucking more sense than this whole shittery that is going on at the moment.

[Asheram]

The ultimate kiter in this video. Need that repeater xbow and that bow that shot smaller arrows but needed a longer item to rest on til fired in CRPG. 

[Gristle]

It is simple, really, just put in POWER DRAW for crossbow archers so they are able to even pull back the crossbow.

I will say that the Mercenaries mod added a skill for crossbows called Reload. It increases reload speed obviously, but also ties higher tier crossbows to levels of the skill. 2 skill points for Crossbow, 3 points for Heavy Crossbow, and 4 for Arbalest.

[Xesta]

I will say that the Mercenaries mod added a skill for crossbows called Reload. It increases reload speed obviously, but also ties higher tier crossbows to levels of the skill. 2 skill points for Crossbow, 3 points for Heavy Crossbow, and 4 for Arbalest.

Yeah, no. We don't really need crossbows who can also be reloaded in under 1 sec. Just put in power draw requirement for crossbows without increasing the dmg of the crossbow, easy as that.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

If we just slap a pd requirement on crossbows then literally what is their positives over bows. Solutions isn't that black and white

[the real god emperor]

If we just slap a pd requirement on crossbows then literally what is their positives over bows.

-Higher damage
-Higher accuracy
-Being able to wait for the right moment to shoot

looks good to me imo

[Gristle]

Yeah, no. We don't really need crossbows who can also be reloaded in under 1 sec. Just put in power draw requirement for crossbows without increasing the dmg of the crossbow, easy as that.

It wouldn't be Native reload speeds. You're suggesting that a skill be added that offers no benefit beyond being able to equip the weapon. That's absurd. Every skill increases something by a percentage. You can't demand a change while being unwilling to compromise.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

-Higher damage
-Higher accuracy
-Being able to wait for the right moment to shoot

looks good to me imo

Cons:
-Longer reload time
-cant move while reloading
-if hit or disturbed at any point during reloading it gets reset and you have to restart
-shot delay(this may have been removed but was a meme at best)
-less ammo


Pros for bows in this scenario:
Higher rate of fire
Mobility
more ammo


Cons:
if you hold your shot for 6+ seconds you get a little bit inaccurate
slightly less damage that gets equaled out if you remember you shoot 2-4 times faster



HMMM WHICH ONE DO I PICK?

[the real god emperor]

Please Tristan. Less ammo because you shoot less in a round anyway. There is no shot delay. You can't move only in the first part of the reload. STR archers are not mobile at all, and only true STR archers can hold their bown drawn for 5-6 seconds. And they deal 25-30 damage on the body, while an arbalest bolt deals minimum 60 regardless of armor. And an archer shooting the same target twice is much, much harder than a crossbowman hitting his target once. There is no big reason why "reloading" as a skill isn't a good solution.

[Beleg]

HMMM WHICH ONE DO I PICK?

The one where you can also be a decent melee fighter.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

Please Tristan. Less ammo because you shoot less in a round anyway. There is no shot delay. You can't move only in the first part of the reload. STR archers are not mobile at all, and only true STR archers can hold their bown drawn for 5-6 seconds. And they deal 25-30 damage on the body, while an arbalest bolt deals minimum 60 regardless of armor. And an archer shooting the same target twice is much, much harder than a crossbowman hitting his target once. There is no big reason why "reloading" as a skill isn't a good solution.

"no shot delay" have you played xbow? seems like you havent to me...

The one where you can also be a decent melee fighter.

Notice in this conversation, crossbows require PD and limit their melee capabilities to roughly that of an archer (arguably more WPF)

[RD_Professor]

...while an arbalest bolt deals minimum 60 regardless of armor.

Actually arabalasts were averaging ~30-35 at mediumish range versus 'normal' plate. With maximum body armor (80), arabalast did at most 35 at closest range.

yes, arab-alasts. that sounds right.

[Gristle]

The correct spelling is Arbamolester, thank you.

[Beleg]

Notice in this conversation, crossbows require PD and limit their melee capabilities to roughly that of an archer (arguably more WPF)

you're right, my mistake.