The Ranged Problem.

[the real god emperor]

Singnificantly increasing the required wpf and slightly increasing the damage on the arbalest while reducing the damage on heavy crossbow could make sense. So the dedicated xbow only player will be rewarded as he should, meanwhile xbowmen who also favor melee will have to sacrifice more.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

To those that think archery should be nerfed, I tanked 23 shots on NA1 from an archer last night who was using a yew longbow.... With only 61 body armor and 48 head...

[Yeldur]

To those that think archery should be nerfed, I tanked 23 shots on NA1 from an archer last night who was using a yew longbow.... With only 61 body armor and 48 head...

That Archer was either awful or poorly built his archer, I've been hit in the head with 61 head armour and 10 IF and had only 5% health left from it.

[Algarn]

That Archer was either awful or poorly built his archer, I've been hit in the head with 61 head armour and 10 IF and had only 5% health left from it.

To deal damage with archery, you need at the very least 8PD and a 28+ damage bow, if you want to deal significant damage, you need 9PD at least, a yew longbow, and you got to shoot the head at all times. The archer probably didn't have bodkins or enough PD.

[pogosan]

[Casul]

Singnificantly increasing the required wpf and slightly increasing the damage on the arbalest while reducing the damage on heavy crossbow could make sense. So the dedicated xbow only player will be rewarded as he should, meanwhile xbowmen who also favor melee will have to sacrifice more.

shit idea sryn, that means dedicated x bow players would only play with arbalest, thats actually not have its supposed to be.
Arbalest is ment to be a siege defense weapon tbh, the lighter ones are for field  battles.
Arbalest and heavy x bow should stay 3 slot, that would prevent them from using 2h's and heavy polearms. That would also mean they would have to use 0 slot 1h's if they want an additional shield.

solved, next problem pls.

[Paul]

Reticle for throwing lances

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Reticulous!

[the real god emperor]

shit idea sryn, that means dedicated x bow players would only play with arbalest, thats actually not have its supposed to be.
Arbalest is ment to be a siege defense weapon tbh, the lighter ones are for field  battles.
Arbalest and heavy x bow should stay 3 slot, that would prevent them from using 2h's and heavy polearms. That would also mean they would have to use 0 slot 1h's if they want an additional shield.

solved, next problem pls.

Well, I forgot to include this to my thoughts;

Arbalest should be 4 slots. There are enough decent 0 slots around to pick from, but it would prevent the user from abusing weapons like spathovaklion and other maces in general, elite scimitar etc. This would give room for maces like german spiral a chance to actually be used in the field. Also all crossbow weights should increase, meaning that playstyle of "when get caught my any melee just run until you can reload" will be less efficient, forcing the crossbowman to either hide real good, or stick with his teammates. As he should.
Bear in mind that this suggestion is the part2 of the first one I made, meaning cutting melee and running capabilities of the arbalest is also supported with higher damage and one shot capabilities.

[Thryn]

talked a lot last night with desire, there might be something causing loads of extra damage output irrespective of the power draw argument

if someone figures out how or why it seems like crossbows are doing more damage than the previous patch of destiny game build, we might get this conundrum under control

as it stands right now, arbs can two shot a tin can in 70 plate armor

[Jona]

I, like you, wouldn't want faulty tests to affect balance in a poor and illogical way. I am glad you agree that a test like the one you did is just the basic groundwork to continue testing. (which Rico and I have already done)

Just saying, it'd be great if you could release the findings of this testing to the community. It'd really benefit everyone here, as it can help you defend your stance and the general populace can become more enlightened on the matter (unless of course the results aren't what you personally want :thinking:). Sure it might take some time to make it presentable, but most of us are surprisingly smart, so even if presented poorly I'm sure we can make sense of the data with naught but a brief explanation.


On the matter of 0-slot 1handers, imo there shouldn't be any except daggers and the hatchet/stick/hammer type of weapons. The fact that weapons such as the broad short sword and eventually even better ones like the grosses messer became 0 slot is completely absurd. Add in the fact that some decent pierce/blunt 1handers are also 0 slot and now any ranged build with low-ish melee stats can still take down a tincan without much difficulty. Not to mention that 1handers all got buffed animations, 1h maces were given stabs for some reason... the list goes on as to why 0 slot 1h weps are pretty darn good, even with low stat investments. Heck I carry around a (not even good) 1h sword sometimes when I'm a hoplite and with 0 1h wpf I can still hold my own.


Edit: Also, based solely upon OP's findings, I find it fucky that an arb can two-shot someone with 30 armor all the way up to 70+ armor. At that point why even wear more armor (if you're only caring about negating ranged effectiveness, of course)?

[_uwu_]

talked a lot last night with desire, there might be something causing loads of extra damage output irrespective of the power draw argument

if someone figures out how or why it seems like crossbows are doing more damage than the previous patch of destiny game build, we might get this conundrum under control

as it stands right now, arbs can two shot a tin can in 70 plate armor

wow it's so weird that a weapon that's essentially a miniature ballista can two shot tin cans wow i can't believe this is happening

anyone who says the arb needs a nerf is instantly retarded in my eyes. the weapon has been garbage since it was nerfed in 2013. there's literally no reason to use it over the heavy crossbow or the regular crossbow.

[Asheram]

Plate getting 2 shot by arb is bad but 37h 54b 58l heraldic mail getting 1 shot by plate goon with flamburger is ok?

[Thryn]

Plate getting 2 shot by arb is bad but 37h 54b 58l heraldic mail getting 1 shot by plate goon with flamburger is ok?

idk, i dont have much evidence that supports melee attacks one shotting people. melee is difficult to calculate considering you have two moving people interacting with the in game mechanics, so it is likely that if you were one shot, you were with with really high speed bonus + a hit to the head

i believe up attacks are hard coded to deal more damage than any other of the attacks (read that in a san post years ago)

[Asheram]

I was 1 shot by Random dude with a flamberger. Was low pop so I went to fight someone else instead of 2 team him but he killed my team mate and came up behind me and 1 shot me before I even made it to young dreamer. There's your proof.

I have survived arrows and bolts to the head before with unloomed kettle helmet.

[RandomDude]

I was 1 shot by Random dude with a flamberger. Was low pop so I went to fight someone else instead of 2 team him but he killed my team mate and came up behind me and 1 shot me before I even made it to young dreamer. There's your proof.

I have survived arrows and bolts to the head before with unloomed kettle helmet.

If you were the guy that i jump slashed in the face, then yeah, I had a lot of speed in that attack.

2 shots from arby should kill a tank, otherwise it feels a bit useless, doesn't it?

Also, seeing as you brought up the "low pop" thing, it really ticks me off how some people play in low pop na1. It's a battle, if you're outnumbered, good luck, if you have the numbers, gank. That's how it should be. The best way to kill someone is when they're engaged with another fighter (and if you spectate eu1 you'll see this happening ALL the time.) Most people block really well and I prefer to kill people quickly to make the odds in my teams favour. That's another reason I hate the "duel me if your team have 4 guys but I am the last man alive". It's entirely possible for the 1 guy to kill all 4 if he's a good dueller and has the equipment for it, but the dudes who fought hard to make it 4:1 now have to submit to this silly "honour" idea?

There are people in NA that I just don't want on my team because they won't help me in a fight. I don't really want them on the other team either because some other dudes on my team will feel "honour-bound" to duel them, and most likely lose.

Some builds/weapons are made for duelling, mine is not and the dudes who hang back all round just so they can be the last alive and duel just kills the fun in NA1 for me. I prefer eu1 or na7 because of it, actually.

Maybe my feelings are completely different to everybody else in NA, and if so I just have to suck it up, but if you're expecting me to duel in a battle server, it's not gonna happen ;)