Level Revert Poll

[RD_Professor]

Over the past few days, I've quickly leaned towards the idea of a level revert, where the first level you can retire at would change to 30, essentially reverting back to the pre "Patch of Destiny" leveling system. Even though I think it's a good idea, (since it will help normalize the balance, and remove some strain put onto the crpg engine by higher-level builds) I'd still like to hear input from all of you.

[Asheram]

I thought a revert to lvl 31 being the retirement level was always in the mix so I vote yes.

[njames89]

This is an idea that I have seen no opposition to. People either fully support the revert or don't seem to care. It does seem like a lot of work for dev team so god bless you if you are up to the task.

Personally I never noticed problems stemming from the high level builds but I don't mind if we revert to the lower level setup.

[Torben]

Personally I never noticed problems stemming from the high level builds but I don't mind if we revert to the lower level setup.

pretty much this.

although a level revert would need an items stat change again,  which might just be gayishly lots of work for sth that might not even hold a real benefit.

[Jona]

pretty much this.

although a level revert would need an items stat change again,  which might just be gayishly lots of work for sth that might not even hold a real benefit.

Yeah, this is definitely something that would need to be changed in the same patch as levels, and it seems like an easy oversight to make. Would be pretty terrible if the devs forgot about this and all anyone could use was a wooden stick and peasant clothes for a while.

[Asheram]

Has it always been possible to run both native and crpg clients at the same time?

[Thryn]

This is an idea that I have seen no opposition to. People either fully support the revert or don't seem to care. It does seem like a lot of work for dev team so god bless you if you are up to the task.

Personally I never noticed problems stemming from the high level builds but I don't mind if we revert to the lower level setup.

i dont think you notice it that much when you play strength builds, however it makes agi hilariously awful

you get to run around at the speed of light and 2 hit people with 18 str because of speed bonuses in addition to running through people because the game can't keep up with your dank athletics

[FleetFox]

Hey, is it possible to revert to the old old exp and gold system (thinking 2011/12 time period with no multiplier)? Where you got both from proximity to kills in big fights (like exp barn). Those were still the most fun I have had on this mod, anyoen else prefer that really old exp and level system?

[Casul]

Hey, is it possible to revert to the old old exp and gold system (thinking 2011/12 time period with no multiplier)? Where you got both from proximity to kills in big fights (like exp barn). Those were still the most fun I have had on this mod, anyoen else prefer that really old exp and level system?

This sounds a lot like the current mercernaries system. I see that mercs probably copied exactly this from cRPG, but we should consider to not (re)introduce mechanics which could be considered copying the said mod.

I think we should target mercenaries as the biggest competitor in our goal of reviving this mod. So it would probably be wise to aim for more individuality towards other present mods.


However I still believe the XP multiplier should be exchanged by a more balanced system, making it mostly independent if youre in the winning or losing team and more dependent on your personal kills/deeds in a battle.

[FleetFox]

This sounds a lot like the current mercernaries system. I see that mercs probably copied exactly this from cRPG, but we should consider to not (re)introduce mechanics which could be considered copying the said mod.

I think we should target mercenaries as the biggest competitor in our goal of reviving this mod. So it would probably be wise to aim for more individuality towards other present mods.


However I still believe the XP multiplier should be exchanged by a more balanced system, making it mostly independent if youre in the winning or losing team, but more dependent on your personal deeds in a battle.

I understand where you are coming from, but don't worry cRPG was around before mercs had even hatched from the egg as you thought ;) There would be no danger at all of looking to reintroduce old system from this angle. I'll try and find some old footage to post here so you can roughly see how it worked.

Ok this is pretty bad resolution but first one to come up going that far back haha. Every kill you get a small gold and exp increase in buttom left, if someone gets a kill next to you, you get that same bonus. It basically encouraged newer players to clump together in groups to promote team play, whislt stil allowing experiened players to lone wolf/ snipe or play however they liked. 

Edit: found a better vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItwXzuQ60TU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKY5MlndRj0

[Casul]

I understand where you are coming from, but don't worry cRPG was around before mercs had even hatched from the egg as you thought ;) There would be no danger at all of looking to reintroduce old system from this angle. I'll try and find some old footage to post here so you can roughly see how it worked.

Yes I know, we few remaining players know, but the new player base we are aiming for, they dont know 

Other people's thoughts?

Ps: I dont really see it as a mistake, it was just my general impression that the new player base we want to drag into playing cRPG probably will be objective af, considering my general impression I get when I play native (which I do nearly daily)

[FleetFox]

Yes I know, we few remaining players know, but the new player base we are aiming for, they dont know 

Other people's thoughts?

Ps: I dont really see it as a mistake, it was just my general impression that the new player base we want to drag into playing cRPG probably will be objective af, considering my general impression I get when I play native (which I do nearly daily)

Ok fair comment. I have been playing mercenaries a fair bit past couple months. What I find time again talking to players is that 1st, they didn't like the grind of cRPG to get levels (Everyone is the same lvl from the start and is capped in mercs for those who dont know). 2nd, players much prefer cRPG because it has so much more opportunity for customisation as mercs is fairly limited. 3rd, the clan system and other nice things like the custom animations are all plus' for cRPG. I think we are doing really well here, especially with the likes of Kratos galavanising for discussion to make decisions. The deicison has to mean more people will play again. From what I've seen, do away with exp all together and have a gold system to give people goals. Add custom items as prizes or end goal items.

[Jona]

I feel like the multiplier system is good at keeping people playing should they be on a hot streak. It is a really cheap way to suck people into playing for hours on end, thus allowing for a more populated server. 

On a more serious note, the multiplier system at least allows for peasants to level up as quickly as anyone else - the proximity-based system really doesn't help you out when you're unable to contribute much, and you arguably have a greater need for xp at those lower levels. I'd also assume ranged get shafted as they're not as close to the action. Imo ever since the valor system was implemented the current system has been pretty good at helping the good players get properly rewarded, and the valor system is based off the score you got for that round, which is mostly based off of proximity to damage dealt, which is essentially the method of xp gain we used to have. Overall it's a nice compromise where the plebs can get their guaranteed x1, x2, ..., x5 xp while the good players get valor, which essentially allows them to stay at a constant x5. If we were to change anything I'd like to see A) valor given out a little more liberally to those on the losing side of a battle - we don't want to see as many people rq because they lost their x5 after countless rounds. Maybe give valor to the top 1/4 or 1/3 of the losing team, capping at the top 10 players? B) If someone is on the winning side with an x4 or x5 they currently receive no bonus for getting valor. Maybe just give them a small end-of-round bonus of an extra xp/gold tick? Or some other lump sum? Maybe use an equation where the xp/gold they receive is directly based off of their score from t hat round?

[Casul]

So I allowed myself to display you guys MY PERSONAL OPINION !!! about the mod's differences which could probably explain why shitty mercs is still alive and cRPG died.



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In mercs, you start with a locked level, no way to level up. You have decent amout of money and with a very little grind you can already get you a high end sword. Making your character an agility based low armor 2 hander is already a very competitive class and can get you easily to the top of the battlefield, obviously based on the skill, but even average-low skilled wont have a hard time, considering their dmg output the same or even higher (low armor) than those of any other player with the same weapon. I mean, we have that in cRPG too, but in mercs it just feels a lot more fair, I cannot really explain why tbh... The only class being reserved for rich players is cavalry, which I am fine with.
I'd sum up mercs like this:

• quick introduction phase, no leveling, good starting money
  
• easy grind, very soon able to compete

cRPG STF
like in mercs bound to a high level, with no possibility to retire and gain loompoints, no ability to level up. You only need to grind to get better gear, but at least still have the possibility to borrow items from a clan's armoury.

• instant high level, decent builds possible
• only requires gold to compete
• good for testing and casual players

cRPG normal character
Starts from the absolute edge. No money, no gear (disregarding the bound-gifted +3's new accounts get), starts at level 1 with no skillpoints to set.
Requires quite long time to become competitive, even though you level quite fast around the first 25 levels. It still requires a long time and getting to the level of STF player requires around 1-2 week(s) of daily playing for hours. Too much for a casual player. For those who can be arsed to grind their way up, looms, high levels and sick gear are what expects a player after months of "hard work". You might say there is not much of a difference compared to what a STF character can do, but together with all the grind and minmaxed builds comes mostly a lot of skill, which puts a chasm between the casual and the "full time" player. This phenomenon you will probably only find in cRPG, this is not a thing in mercs where a casual player can compete very soon with the 1000 hour player, hower the long time player will still be more skilled and will obviously still have the insignificantly more polished gear. This is why you wont find many jagged scores in a merc battle. The best are around a 5:1 k/d, while the worst are somewhere around a 1:3 k/d.
the cRPG ones were somewhere around 12:1 on the top and like 0:6 on the bottom (krems).
So what makes the red graph grow exponentionally since the point of intersection with STF?

• loomed gear
• skill
• level/build

So summed up, I think mercs compared to cRPG mastered the art of playerbase balance. Everyone can compete, there is no real chance to become an undefeatable player with glitchy builds.
cRPG's playerbase had too much of chasms between them, it was accelerating the death of the mod. The game made it possible to minmax the absolut shit out of it, which on the one hand made it probably the most popular mod, but on the other hand was a major reason why it died.

Anyone else can sympathize with this impression?

[Rico]

Shitty mercs is still alive because their balancers didn't get carried away and came up with the things we have or had in cRPG:

Bullshit like the new leveling system, power draw increasing bow accuracy, iron flesh increasing movement speed, super-fast melee weapon stats and swing animations, crossbows requiring barely any WPF, a global projectile and ranged weapon weight increase, as well as a series of nerfs for every class in various areas.

Completely unnecessary!

Revert balance back to how it was in the early days of cRPG, and never touch it again. Remove the position of balancer and set stats of new items as clones or minor spin-offs of existing items.