The Official Hate The Muslim Thread (Orlando Gone Gay Edition!)

[Grytviken]

This particular shooter can't hide behind a minority tag, seeing as he's part of an extremist movement. A Muslim, but separate from Muslims as a whole.

But, the past is a large part of the social problem we're seeing today with black on black violence.

And easy access to guns is certainly an enabler of today's active shooter, an impossible to profile lunatic, contrary to every hindsighter's "This could've been prevented if they just through him in prison for that one traffic ticket or that one time he told his buddy at work that he hates America."

He was able to hide behind a minority tag to conduct this attack and avoid further investigation and keep his right to own an assault rifle. Being kicked out of your imaginary liberal safespace doesn't actually keep anyone safe, reddit and twitter discussions are not real life.

[Oberyn]

Maybe you missed that the "white guy" has been charged with nothing more than posession.

"Santa Monica Police Chief Jacqueline Seabrooks initially said on Twitter that during the arrest, the suspect told one of her officers “of wanting to harm Gay Pride event.”

But Lt. Saul Rodriguez, a Santa Monica police spokesman, said later that the tweet was a misstatement and that Seabrooks had been given incorrect information. Howell told investigators that he was going to the Pride festival but did not make additional statements about his intentions, Rodriguez said.

Howell was booked on charges that include possession of a firearm, possession of an improvised-explosive device and possession of high-capacity magazines, Rodriguez said.

Los Angeles County sheriff’s officials said the suspect told police he was going to the Pride parade to look for a friend. Authorities were looking for that individual.

In the first case, on Oct. 14, an ex-boyfriend alleged that Howell had pointed an AR-style rifle at him, though Howell denied that and said he had kept the gun up on his shoulder. Howell was arrested the next day after neighbors called police to report that Howell had pointed a gun at one of them."

Every single article is the same. Unsurprisingly you read no further than "white guy", "assault rifle" and "explosives", since it could be used in your typical false equivalency apologist game. What would be the reasoning for a gay Bernie supporter with a criminal record to plan a terrorist attack on a Pride event, exactly?

[Overdriven]

O yeah they managed to stop him before he did any serious harm. What a tragedy.

I wonder what innocent intentions he had.

[Oberyn]

And you've learned this where, exactly? That he was planning to do serious harm and was only stopped at the last second? Strange, you'd figure someone willing to go out in a suicidal blaze wouldn't let himself be stopped by something as a simple as a traffic cop, armed as he was with assault rifles and explosives. You'd think investigators in charge of his case would've mentioned something, not gone out of their way to clarify in the media that the information that he was planning harm was erroneous. Oh well, I'll def listen to the impressions of some muslim convert retard that endlessly defends his shit addopted religion instead, and likes to pretend the worldwide scourge of islamic terrorism is negligible or equivalent before the monstrous, blood-soaked culture of Amerikkka, that's much more reliable

[Overdriven]

Seriously he was going to pride to 'look for a friend' fully loaded up with assault weapons and trying to make a homemade bomb. If that's his story then that's what they have to report but sounds like a pile of crap.

I'm not defending anything. Simply showing your statement was bollocks.

[LordBerenger]

Seriously he was going to pride to 'look for a friend' fully loaded up with assault weapons and trying to make a homemade bomb. If that's his story then that's what they have to report but sounds like a pile of crap.

I'm not defending anything. Simply showing your statement was bollocks.

And you've learned this where, exactly? That he was planning to do serious harm and was only stopped at the last second? Strange, you'd figure someone willing to go out in a suicidal blaze wouldn't let himself be stopped by something as a simple as a traffic cop, armed as he was with assault rifles and explosives. You'd think investigators in charge of his case would've mentioned something, not gone out of their way to clarify in the media that the information that he was planning harm was erroneous. Oh well, I'll def listen to the impressions of some muslim convert retard that endlessly defends his shit addopted religion instead, and likes to pretend the worldwide scourge of islamic terrorism is negligible or equivalent before the monstrous, blood-soaked culture of Amerikkka, that's much more reliable

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[Oberyn]

We'll see, both on the Orlando shooter would-be suicide bomber and this guy, once they release all the info. Of course whatever the truth of the matter you will remain convinced the islamic angle on the attack that caused 50 deaths is unimportant, because you're a muslim. Not trying to defend anything, lol gtfo. Every single fucking time there's an islamic terrorist attack you show up and start throwing false equivalencies and casting off any responsability from your religion. But but a white guy!!! But but guuuun controoool! Fucking pos bundle of sticks. What ulterior reason did the murderous hostage taker have in Paris? Let me guess, nothing to do with Islam again, here's a list of other factors, hahaha. Do you not start feeling even a little bit of shame after the, what, 50th time you've used these arguements in similar instances? Any sort of cognitive dissonance? Oh well, I'm sure you'll get plenty of opportunities to trott them out again, have no fear.

[Butan]

He was able to hide behind a minority tag to conduct this attack and avoid further investigation and keep his right to own an assault rifle.

Thats an interesting trivia but a trivia nonetheless.
The oppressor/oppressed hypocrisy leads to some shit like that in real life, aka being forced to show restraint to not appear as a racist. Which can lead to enabling death and destruction.
But at the same time, if you do the opposite and show excessive paranoia everytime you see a non-white, then you're a racist. Where you will harass normal people during their daily routine for no logical reasons except fear.
A true conundrum!

We'll see, both on the Orlando shooter would-be suicide bomber and this guy, once they release all the info. Of course whatever the truth of the matter you will remain convinced the islamic angle on the attack that caused 50 deaths is unimportant, because you're a muslim. Not trying to defend anything, lol gtfo. Every single fucking time there's an islamic terrorist attack you show up and start throwing false equivalencies and casting off any responsability from your religion. But but a white guy!!! But but guuuun controoool! Fucking pos bundle of sticks. What ulterior reason did the murderous hostage taker have in Paris? Let me guess, nothing to do with Islam again, here's a list of other factors, hahaha. Do you not start feeling even a little bit of shame after the, what, 50th time you've used these arguements in similar instances? Any sort of cognitive dissonance? Oh well, I'm sure you'll get plenty of opportunities to trott them out again, have no fear.

Whatever is Overdriven point of view on gun control and Islam, showing that a white can attempt to commit crimes on the same group (gays) shows that whites can be as barbaric as anyone else. The fact it triggers you makes me wonder if you place white people above all possible evil?
It is very easy to accept the fact that we can all do grave harm to one another, and still believe that Islam is problematic and ISIS need to die in a hole, it doesnt necessarily contradict.

[Overdriven]

O Oberyn you never fail to astound me with how idiotic you can be.

At what point have I stated that it's unimportant? He pledged his allegiance to IS right before doing it. Heck sounds like this guy was a closet gay, probably couldn't handle the conflict with religion, was fucked up mentally, somewhere along the line got in contact with IS and they promised him if he did it he would get into heaven and erase any 'haraam' thoughts he was having.

The nuances of my arguments always fall on deaf ears when it comes to you. You have your own hardcore set values and nothing anybody says will change those. It's why arguing with you is such a joke. The nonsense you spew half the time is just laughable and you tend to ignore 90% of what anyone says for your own agenda.

Pretending gun laws aren't part of the problem is just blind. It's all part of the problem. This guy just walked into a shop and bought some guns a couple of weeks before going on a killing spree and no one challenged him, despite the fact he was investigated multiple times for possible terrorist links. Even if they were inconclusive that should have thrown up some bloody red flags right there.

There are many issues at play here, a large one being Islam, but also gun control and other factors. You can't ignore others just to pursue your own fucked up 'I hate Islam' angle and pretend that all the others don't play a part.

[Kafein]

But then if Islam plays a part, what do we ought to do to solve this problem, Overdriven? Surely the solution is in some way related to Islam. By accepting Oberyn's premise, you have to confront what he actually wants to argue.

[Oberyn]

I understand very well the primary reasoning behind regressive logic is to immediately diffuse blame from islam and if possible divert it to proper sources. Hence the regressive media outlets in relation to this event talking about gun control, the awful homophobia of the political right, the inherent failings of american culture and political system, anything at all but islam. Some muslim fanatic strapped on a suicide belt made of explosives and killed 50+ people and wounded scores of others, but the important thing is to show that this is something anyone could do. Why look, this Bernie supporting homo was just about to do the same thing! Anyone who does not immediately think this is the case is...wait for it...a racist. In typical regressive fashion you immediately attribute it to white supremacy, because of course you would. Maybe if this guy had been a rightwing redneck Trump supporter I'd be more open to the idea that he was planning to indiscriminately murder a bunch of them. I wonder how much nuance and careful dissection of possible reasons there would be from the usual bundle of stickss if that had happened.

[Xant]

Read somewhere also that some guy at the club went retard mode and held one of the exit doors shut (HOLD THE DOOR/HODOR) and pretty much kept them all stuck inside.

And they say TV doesn't effect behavior. GoT should be banned.

[Overdriven]

But then if Islam plays a part, what do we ought to do to solve this problem, Overdriven? Surely the solution is in some way related to Islam. By accepting Oberyn's premise, you have to confront what he actually wants to argue.

The solution is related to Islam. And has been coming through in a lot of western countries. A big part of the problem is the Wahhabi interpretation of Islam that has taken hold in much of the middle east. If other countries can move away from that particular ideology then it would go a long way to changing what's wrong with the Islamic world. It's already happening with a lot of younger Muslims in Western countries.

In India where my wife is from they are also moving towards more liberal interpretations. Heck I sat and watched an Imam and the 'elders' make a decision about whether I could actually get married in the mosque. Go back 20 years and my in laws are convinced they would have chased me out. But times a changing. And fortunately it was in a very cosmopolitan part of India.

A big part of the problem is that Wahabism is the state ideology of Saudi, so it has massive weight behind it. If you go back even to the 50's and earlier, many of the now hardcore conservative Islamic countries were incredibly liberal before it's rise.

It's a problem that will probably take decades to resolve, if ever. Just like there are still hardcore fanatics in any religion, I'm sure there always will be in Islam. But with education, social media ect. At least some change can be brought about. Particularly if education is brought to the masses in the Middle East. Which it's severely lacking at the moment. State sponsored religion is simply an easy tool to control people until more varied and wider education comes about.

The thing Oberyn misses is that he see's Islam as just one thing and as such he thinks when I defend aspects of it, I'm defending all of it. Then he'll quickly google some things and pretend he know's wtf he's talking about and go on a ridiculous rant again.

[Butan]

The Islam problem is a bit like the gun problem.

If you ban all guns, you still dont make them impossible to acquire for those who really want them... Maybe not teens that have no underground connection but still.
Same if you restrict/ban immigration of muslims (in a way or another), terrorists will always find a way to make shit blow.


My personal opinion related to guns in USA is that it would be better if we encouraged civilians to learn how to use guns, and if all security personel and shopkeepers had some nearby. There would still be cowardly stupid people leaving a bloody trail behind them, but many lives would be spared. I dont believe in an unarmed society being capable of protecting itself from surprise attacks only by police intervention, they are always too late by mechanical reasons.
And related to immigration, I think USA has a right to do whatever it judges necessary. But it needs to treat its already US citizens with respect, even if they are muslims.

[Oberyn]

O Oberyn you never fail to astound me with how idiotic you can be.

At what point have I stated that it's unimportant? He pledged his allegiance to IS right before doing it. Heck sounds like this guy was a closet gay, probably couldn't handle the conflict with religion, was fucked up mentally, somewhere along the line got in contact with IS and they promised him if he did it he would get into heaven and erase any 'haraam' thoughts he was having.

The nuances of my arguments always fall on deaf ears when it comes to you. You have your own hardcore set values and nothing anybody says will change those. It's why arguing with you is such a joke. The nonsense you spew half the time is just laughable and you tend to ignore 90% of what anyone says for your own agenda.

Pretending gun laws aren't part of the problem is just blind. It's all part of the problem. This guy just walked into a shop and bought some guns a couple of weeks before going on a killing spree and no one challenged him, despite the fact he was investigated multiple times for possible terrorist links. Even if they were inconclusive that should have thrown up some bloody red flags right there.

There are many issues at play here, a large one being Islam, but also gun control and other factors. You can't ignore others just to pursue your own fucked up 'I hate Islam' angle and pretend that all the others don't play a part.

If only semtex wasn't available over the counter, america wouldn't be plagued with suicidal attackers using the stuff as a fashion statement, such an american thing to do. Not like Islam preaches that gays are sinners that must be executed, this was merely an insane closet homo with access to firearms. Islam is blameless, as usual, this is nothing but fanatics that can't properly be called muslims because they so misunderstand it's message of peace and tolerance. Violence against homosexuals is not an institutionalized and common occurence in literally every single muslim majority country, there are no tenets in the religion promoting it. When some insane christian does a terrorist attack on an abortion clinic, the source of his anger and rational is very clear. When it's a muslim it's vastly more nuanced though.