Author Topic: The Epic  (Read 73535 times)

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Offline Golem

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #210 on: June 01, 2016, 09:38:09 pm »
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What I said about guarding was that you wouldn't have to actively do it... you just need to watch the horizon from time to time. What's the hard and time consuming labor about that?

And how do you expect NPCs to do a better job at it?

What, if you want noone to pass into the city, without giving you their name(or weapons), is the player supposed to stand at the gate 24/7?
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Offline MacX85

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #211 on: June 01, 2016, 09:59:23 pm »
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I don't know. Might work with NPCs if they know exactly what to do. But I would prefer having interactions with humans only.

Offline Golem

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #212 on: June 01, 2016, 11:41:20 pm »
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I don't know. Might work with NPCs if they know exactly what to do. But I would prefer having interactions with humans only.

You would prefer to have interactions with humans only, why? Because of immersion? Because you're scared of AI or you don't recognize their authority, even though it'b given by a human? Either way, automatic taxes, weapon disposal and name toggle-ing, might work for a browser game like Strategus, but would be an abominable solution for OKAM.

btw, afaik it's harder to make AI so that it can make mistakes and be disoriented and not know what to do
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #213 on: June 01, 2016, 11:54:07 pm »
+1
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Offline khelbyz

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #214 on: June 02, 2016, 12:18:38 am »
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* yawning *

Offline Bryggan

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #215 on: June 02, 2016, 04:52:02 am »
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Keeping an eye out for armies should be humans.  But entering a 'walled enclosure' should be NPCs.  Just go to the gate, press 'E' and get a dialogue box.  "You will be required to leave your weapons and armour here.  Do you still wish to enter? <Yes> or <No>.

You would also have the option of smashing the gate down (only during primetime hours).

The marketplace should be Native single player.  Each player could set their base price which would be adjusted by supply and demand.  So with a base of 100 goods the price would be 100 Donkrönigs.  Once it goes below 100, the price gradually goes up on some curved scale so the last item will be extremely expensive.  And of course vice versa; if there is too many of one good, the price goes down dramatically.  This would make trade viable, plus cause economic ruin if you decide to siege a town, or just wreck all the farms around it.  We will need food, right?  Not as in prepare it and eat it, but at least have a few days equipped, with extra storage in your house to feed you and your family in case you AFK for awhile.  Maybe have hit points or agility affected by starvation, or rationed food.

Speaking of which, I think sieges should be a lot more difficult.  We don't want everyone camping, so only a few people should be able to hold a walled settlement.  You could force a battle by starving them out (perhaps build something in front of the gatehouse so they can't come and go when everyone is asleep) or by destroying local farms.  Then, when they are sufficiently weak and haven't tried sally out or get a relieving army to save them, you can then attack.

Offline MacX85

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #216 on: June 02, 2016, 08:08:11 am »
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You would prefer to have interactions with humans only, why? Because of immersion? Because you're scared of AI or you don't recognize their authority, even though it'b given by a human?

Yeah, because of immersion. I'm easily bored by interacting with AI... I think we're playing a multiplayer game for a reason.
But idk, could work either way. I prefered automatic banking in PW to having to seek out an admin and give him your money which was just a pain in the ass.

I'll wait and see what the donkeys come up with.

Offline Golem

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #217 on: June 02, 2016, 01:37:11 pm »
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Keeping an eye out for armies should be humans.  But entering a 'walled enclosure' should be NPCs.  Just go to the gate, press 'E' and get a dialogue box.  "You will be required to leave your weapons and armour here.  Do you still wish to enter? <Yes> or <No>.

You would also have the option of smashing the gate down (only during primetime hours).

The marketplace should be Native single player.  Each player could set their base price which would be adjusted by supply and demand.  So with a base of 100 goods the price would be 100 Donkrönigs.  Once it goes below 100, the price gradually goes up on some curved scale so the last item will be extremely expensive.  And of course vice versa; if there is too many of one good, the price goes down dramatically.  This would make trade viable, plus cause economic ruin if you decide to siege a town, or just wreck all the farms around it.  We will need food, right?  Not as in prepare it and eat it, but at least have a few days equipped, with extra storage in your house to feed you and your family in case you AFK for awhile.  Maybe have hit points or agility affected by starvation, or rationed food.

Speaking of which, I think sieges should be a lot more difficult.  We don't want everyone camping, so only a few people should be able to hold a walled settlement.  You could force a battle by starving them out (perhaps build something in front of the gatehouse so they can't come and go when everyone is asleep) or by destroying local farms.  Then, when they are sufficiently weak and haven't tried sally out or get a relieving army to save them, you can then attack.

I'm pretty sure the economy will be player-driven, so automatic prices and booths are nonsense. Obviously you can set up a booth, but can you not trade on the road? Can you not haggle? This would be really limiting. This would, infact, be more limiting than cRPG marketplace. No thanks.
This is about being straight out retarded. Children see in slow motion like owls.

Offline Vovka

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #218 on: June 02, 2016, 03:40:02 pm »
+1
 I have not read the preceding text sheets so I apologize in advance if I repeat someone's thoughts
The best system of NPC was in:
 - Ultima online were u can hire him for gold/day and indicate the place of protection, type of behavior, access to its inventory, or use him as companion.
 - Line Age II were u as a castle owner can spend some icome from castle  to buy NPC guards who played the role of strengthening the key points in the defense of the castle, and had a specific point location and Agro area
 - Guild II - guards patrol path

so I would like: 
- An opportunity of construction of a special  structure that allows you to keep a certain number of NPC guards with a certain cost per day  (if the guard a player character and not npc money payed to the family but the character is not available for the duration of the contract) (camp fire [1npc] - sentry tower [3npc] - barracks [5npc] etc)
- Simple menu to customize the behavior
- Flags of the path and the ability to use existing buildings as a flag (start - move to flag 1 - move to gate - wait 160 sec - move to flag 2 - move to camp fire - wait 600 sec etc)
- Chat command "Guards" on which nearest guards will come running to the player in case such necessity

« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 03:43:29 pm by Vovka »
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Offline Bryggan

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #219 on: June 02, 2016, 05:22:47 pm »
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I'm pretty sure the economy will be player-driven, so automatic prices and booths are nonsense. Obviously you can set up a booth, but can you not trade on the road? Can you not haggle? This would be really limiting. This would, infact, be more limiting than cRPG marketplace. No thanks.

Yes, you can trade directly, but you may want to sell your goods when you're not there.  You'd choose what you put in the marketplace and what you decide to sell on your own.  The automated part of the market place would just prevent you from being ripped off.  Suppose you had a little iron smelter and you go to town and put 500 ingots into the marketplace at 75 Donkrönigs.  Then, for some reason or other, you can't play for a day or three.  In that time two neighbouring cities go to war and suddenly need a lot of iron.  Then your king gets worried and decides he needs more armour in case the war spills into his territory.  So you got 3 cities buying up all the iron.  You come back to find that all your ingots have been bought at 75 Donkrönigs, but due to demand everyone is selling theirs for 200 Donkrönigs.

Same with if the market is flooded.  You come back and the ingots are still there because everyone else dropped their prices to 25 Donkrönigs.  So you find yourself coming back with no income at all, and now your family is starving.

Of course if you were there you could take out the low priced ingots and perhaps trade them for bales of wool or something.  The idea is that you don't have to sit watching the market prices and finding buyers.  You can leave a 'family member' in charge with his simple instructions while you mount up and patrol the Southern Forest where you heard a bunch of noobs were harassing the local woodcutters.

So as much as we'd like to be dealing with real people for every detail, not many people would want to play 'shopkeeper simulator', and you won't always be on at the same time as the people you want to deal with.

I have not read the preceding text sheets so I apologize in advance if I repeat someone's thoughts
The best system of NPC was in:
 - Ultima online were u can hire him for gold/day and indicate the place of protection, type of behavior, access to its inventory, or use him as companion.
 - Line Age II were u as a castle owner can spend some icome from castle  to buy NPC guards who played the role of strengthening the key points in the defense of the castle, and had a specific point location and Agro area
 - Guild II - guards patrol path

so I would like: 
- An opportunity of construction of a special  structure that allows you to keep a certain number of NPC guards with a certain cost per day  (if the guard a player character and not npc money payed to the family but the character is not available for the duration of the contract) (camp fire [1npc] - sentry tower [3npc] - barracks [5npc] etc)
- Simple menu to customize the behavior
- Flags of the path and the ability to use existing buildings as a flag (start - move to flag 1 - move to gate - wait 160 sec - move to flag 2 - move to camp fire - wait 600 sec etc)
- Chat command "Guards" on which nearest guards will come running to the player in case such necessity



There won't be any bot guards.
No, bots will not play a major role in the game (if at all, combatwise), exactly for the reasons stated by Bryggan, but also for design reasons - we want to have a game that relies heavily on players, bots should play only the role of helpers.
NPCs will stay in buildings- ie guards in a garrison, workers in shops, sex slaves in the brothels.  You will be able to switch between your 'family' members as needed, probably by parking the character you are playing in a house, inn or a tent.

Offline Vovka

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #220 on: June 02, 2016, 05:27:14 pm »
+5
There won't be any bot guards.
sad. then nothing will save you from the tribe of naked Russian (
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Offline chadz

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #221 on: June 02, 2016, 05:41:56 pm »
+22
Wrong.

As every aspiring gamedesigner should know, first you design a game, and then you design mechanics that stop russians from breaking the game.

Offline Golem

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #222 on: June 02, 2016, 05:47:47 pm »
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Yes, you can trade directly, but you may want to sell your goods when you're not there.  You'd choose what you put in the marketplace and what you decide to sell on your own.  The automated part of the market place would just prevent you from being ripped off.  Suppose you had a little iron smelter and you go to town and put 500 ingots into the marketplace at 75 Donkrönigs.  Then, for some reason or other, you can't play for a day or three.  In that time two neighbouring cities go to war and suddenly need a lot of iron.  Then your king gets worried and decides he needs more armour in case the war spills into his territory.  So you got 3 cities buying up all the iron.  You come back to find that all your ingots have been bought at 75 Donkrönigs, but due to demand everyone is selling theirs for 200 Donkrönigs.

Same with if the market is flooded.  You come back and the ingots are still there because everyone else dropped their prices to 25 Donkrönigs.  So you find yourself coming back with no income at all, and now your family is starving.

Of course if you were there you could take out the low priced ingots and perhaps trade them for bales of wool or something.  The idea is that you don't have to sit watching the market prices and finding buyers.  You can leave a 'family member' in charge with his simple instructions while you mount up and patrol the Southern Forest where you heard a bunch of noobs were harassing the local woodcutters.

So as much as we'd like to be dealing with real people for every detail, not many people would want to play 'shopkeeper simulator', and you won't always be on at the same time as the people you want to deal with.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry, I misunderstood your original post.
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Offline njames89

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #223 on: June 02, 2016, 06:07:11 pm »
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then you design mechanics that stop russians from breaking the game.

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Offline Vovka

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #224 on: June 02, 2016, 06:38:01 pm »
+4
Wrong.
As every aspiring gamedesigner should know, first you design a game, and then you design mechanics that stop russians from breaking the game.
Strategus. years.
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