Author Topic: The Epic  (Read 73849 times)

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Offline Bryggan

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #180 on: May 31, 2016, 08:29:01 pm »
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And how exactly are authorities supposed to find and punish criminals then?
"I don't understand, sir.  I never killed anyone. I think you've got the wrong man."

"Then drop your sword.  If you are innocent, you have nothing to fear. We'll go now and talk to your neighbours, and if they verify your story, I'll go on my way."

Offline Molly

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #181 on: May 31, 2016, 08:30:29 pm »
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Do you people actually believe that it would work? :lol:
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Offline Golem

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #182 on: May 31, 2016, 08:33:05 pm »
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Do you people actually believe that it would work? :lol:

My suggestion certainly would, but then again, nobody reads those...
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Offline Salvius

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #183 on: May 31, 2016, 09:08:35 pm »
+1
And how exactly are authorities supposed to find and punish criminals then?
Go by descriptions, like irl

Exactly. Or see them carrying out a bad deed while patrolling the streets.

Do you people actually believe that it would work? :lol:

To a certain extent, yes. And beyond that, criminals should enjoy the same sort of "safety" they had during the real early middle ages... No need for a police state imho. Never liked the fact how outlaws were treated on most PW servers... Being forced to stop a victim and talk to him/her because "kill on sight" was not allowed was so ridiculous.  :lol:

Groups of outlaws should be a considerable threat while you are wandering in the wilderness / out of town. This would also lead to cities with a reliable guard force and uncommonly safe outskirts being a preferable spot for people to live in or around.
To my mind, restricting criminals and making them easy to find / catch for the medieval police force can only shallow the whole experience of OKAM.  :)

Feel free to disagree, though. Maybe I haven't given this enough thought and miss something important.  :wink:

Offline MacX85

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #184 on: May 31, 2016, 09:19:27 pm »
+1
No need for a police state imho. Never liked the fact how outlaws were treated on most PW servers... Being forced to stop a victim and talk to him/her because "kill on sight" was not allowed was so ridiculous.  :lol:

Amen. I advocated again and again to ditch KOS rules for outlaws. What's the point of being an outlaw if you have to play by rules? Forced RP sucks.

And why would you need the correct name of a criminal to deliver justice? You're responsible for your citizens' safety so you need to escort them and watch over them anyway, just like they did back then... It's more fun that way anyway.

Offline Bryggan

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #185 on: May 31, 2016, 09:33:48 pm »
+3
I like the idea of either giving or withholding your name.  Out in the wilderness you could get killed or just robbed, but if you enter a city you will know who your killer is.  Then the bounty hunters can go chase them.

But if I had a city or settlement, I just wouldn't allow armed strangers near it.  They are either thieves or they are foreign explorers who could be taking my resources.  I would have a 'kill on sight' rule for that.  Of course traders need arms, but they should have some sort of sign.. and goods on them.

Speaking of traders, tolls on roads and bridges were pretty common.

But there should be no 'forced' safe areas.  You could have people patrolling (not too boring if you're with a bud and chatting) outside the settlement, plus a 'disarm' spot at the gatehouse with a few armed guards about.  Let people carry a staff or cudgel for personal defense, but no edged weapons or armour.

Oh, I think armour wearing should be discouraged.  Have 'repairs' for regular wear and tear.  People would instead wear cheaper woolen suits, or brighter coloured more expensive silk and furs.  Then, as with armour, the clothes would deteriorate, hopefully visibly so.  So some poor beggar will be wearing tattered wool, while a more successful farmer will have fine wool, and perhaps a wealthy merchant who's fallen on hard times wears tattered silks.

Oh, and have clothing required.  Say you lose half health from being naked due to the chill air, then your health % goes up the better condition your clothes are in.  This will create another industry for players.  Farmers bring wool and leather to tailors, traders bring in silk and hunters bring furs.

Offline Taser

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #186 on: May 31, 2016, 09:39:31 pm »
+1
Yeah but who wants to play the gate guard, taking people's weapons?

There are some sure but not enough to do it everytime. On the off chance you do get at least one person willing to guard the gate and check people's weapons at the door, you still need someone to do it when that person can't do it because sleep/work/school/fam/etc.

Might work better to have some NPC interaction at the gate to check in weapons but not require it and if someone has a weapon that wasn't checked in while in a town that requires it, could have either NPC guards or regular players be able to attack them or detain them.
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Offline Golem

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #187 on: May 31, 2016, 10:11:38 pm »
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You guys are framing this like all the cities won't be player-run. Everyone can set their own rules. Some towns you can enter freely, other people might want restrict their cities. But's not like there will be a defined thing called 'a city', which comes with guards. You'll have to set up your family member NPCs, their routes, give them orders etc. Obviously a human guard will be better.

What we should be pondering and asking the devs is: To what extent will we as players be able to 'program' our family member NPCs?

This is about being straight out retarded. Children see in slow motion like owls.

Offline Taser

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #188 on: May 31, 2016, 10:17:09 pm »
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Aye thats true. How far can we program them?

I'm not saying there'll be a set city but just that if people want to control their city, such as restricting use of weapons, how is that done? I definitely don't want a "shift" as a gate guard taking weapons from traders.

I suppose we'll find out how as they develop epic more but its always fun to speculate. The easiest way I can think of is to have people set some, or all if they wish I guess, of their family npcs as guards that can take and store weapons. You can make it so players can too if they want but I don't foresee many people lining up for that. We can set npcs to farm and craft afaik so I don't see this being an issue.
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Offline MacX85

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #189 on: May 31, 2016, 10:21:03 pm »
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Yeah but who wants to play the gate guard, taking people's weapons?

That's actually quite common in PW. Organized clans would have players on guard duty. I've been doing that myself on several occasions... surely not all the time, but when there's a war going on you would want your castle and people to be safe.

Offline Taser

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #190 on: May 31, 2016, 10:37:44 pm »
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That's actually quite common in PW. Organized clans would have players on guard duty. I've been doing that myself on several occasions... surely not all the time, but when there's a war going on you would want your castle and people to be safe.

Yeah but PW is a .... special case.

Some scouting and patrolling/guarding when you are definitely at war I can understand. People standing guard at all times.. nah. Plus PW is a much smaller map. So a guard might see action more often. OKAM is going to be much bigger and action will be a lot more infrequent until war occurs. In that sort of situation a guard patrol, on gates or outside the walls, makes sense and is a much shorter time frame than all the time.
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Offline MacX85

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #191 on: May 31, 2016, 10:57:45 pm »
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I see no alternative to actual players guarding the city in case of incoming armies for example. They wouldn't have to sit on the battlements and stare into the open all the time but when you're there, you would scan the horizon every now and then, I would assume. It's not like the enemy will be at your gates at lightning speed.

Offline Salvius

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #192 on: May 31, 2016, 11:09:21 pm »
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I suppose we'll find out how as they develop epic more but its always fun to speculate. The easiest way I can think of is to have people set some, or all if they wish I guess, of their family npcs as guards that can take and store weapons. You can make it so players can too if they want but I don't foresee many people lining up for that. We can set npcs to farm and craft afaik so I don't see this being an issue.

My impression so far is that you will be able to set some sort of rules applying to the land you "own" and build your city on (this area should expand with every building you construct in close proximity to another building already existing, imo).
With "rules" I mean things like...
... you can only "enter" the city unarmed, leading to your weapons being automatically taken from you by the server when you walk through the gates.
... the "tax" rate they mentioned concerning the amount of labor force every crafting citizen has to give to the local ruler (which is also automatically subtracted from the amount you produce or the trades you do).
... who can construct buildings in separate sections of your city.
... how many of your family members (assuming your whole family lives in this place) can be used as soldiers during times of war.
... which kind of goods you are allowed to produce within the city borders.
... and so on

No one is needed to enforce these rules within a city because they are set by the ruler and restrict or allow certain gameplay mechanics while you are in the town or city. On top of that, if your local ruler is only a small lord belonging to a bigger kingdom, the king or marshal might also set some rules applying to his whole kingdom / area of influence (at least to all cities or villages belonging to his dominion).

This is the kind of "metagame" associated with being an empowered person in OKAM... That's how I understood it so far.

This is necessary due to the fact that Taser is right, there will definitely not be enough people willing to do the boring RP tasks needed to carry all this out with players only.

Offline Golem

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #193 on: May 31, 2016, 11:26:30 pm »
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My impression so far is that you will be able to set some sort of rules applying to the land you "own" and build your city on (this area should expand with every building you construct in close proximity to another building already existing, imo).
With "rules" I mean things like...
... you can only "enter" the city unarmed, leading to your weapons being automatically taken from you by the server when you walk through the gates.
... the "tax" rate they mentioned concerning the amount of labor force every crafting citizen has to give to the local ruler (which is also automatically subtracted from the amount you produce or the trades you do).
... who can construct buildings in separate sections of your city.
... how many of your family members (assuming your whole family lives in this place) can be used as soldiers during times of war.
... which kind of goods you are allowed to produce within the city borders.
... and so on

No one is needed to enforce these rules within a city because they are set by the ruler and restrict or allow certain gameplay mechanics while you are in the town or city. On top of that, if your local ruler is only a small lord belonging to a bigger kingdom, the king or marshal might also set some rules applying to his whole kingdom / area of influence (at least to all cities or villages belonging to his dominion).

This is the kind of "metagame" associated with being an empowered person in OKAM... That's how I understood it so far.

This is necessary due to the fact that Taser is right, there will definitely not be enough people willing to do the boring RP tasks needed to carry all this out with players only.

So, who's the ruler? An admin? chadz?  :lol:
This is about being straight out retarded. Children see in slow motion like owls.

Offline Bryggan

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Re: The Epic
« Reply #194 on: June 01, 2016, 05:50:37 am »
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My impression so far is that you will be able to set some sort of rules applying to the land you "own" and build your city on (this area should expand with every building you construct in close proximity to another building already existing, imo).
With "rules" I mean things like...
... you can only "enter" the city unarmed, leading to your weapons being automatically taken from you by the server when you walk through the gates.
... the "tax" rate they mentioned concerning the amount of labor force every crafting citizen has to give to the local ruler (which is also automatically subtracted from the amount you produce or the trades you do).
... who can construct buildings in separate sections of your city.
... how many of your family members (assuming your whole family lives in this place) can be used as soldiers during times of war.
... which kind of goods you are allowed to produce within the city borders.
... and so on

No one is needed to enforce these rules within a city because they are set by the ruler and restrict or allow certain gameplay mechanics while you are in the town or city. On top of that, if your local ruler is only a small lord belonging to a bigger kingdom, the king or marshal might also set some rules applying to his whole kingdom / area of influence (at least to all cities or villages belonging to his dominion).

This is the kind of "metagame" associated with being an empowered person in OKAM... That's how I understood it so far.

This is necessary due to the fact that Taser is right, there will definitely not be enough people willing to do the boring RP tasks needed to carry all this out with players only.

So, who's the ruler? An admin? chadz?  :lol:

I like what Salvius says.  Things such as taxes should be automatic as collecting in a video game would be tough.  And an 'automatic gate' would make life easier.

As for who 'rules', ya, that's more complicated.  I suppose it could be by agreement.  Just a dialogue box where you hit 'accept' when someone asks for 30% of your income.  You could always say 'no' provided you accept the circumstances.

This would allow for a more feudal society.  As the player base grows, the layers of society will grow too.  If you own a large tract of land you could get 3 other players farming on it as well, and you collect 30% off each.  With that money you could build a keep for storage and a place of safety for your farmers, and you'd do what you can to ensure they succeed as you get a cut.

And perhaps you'd also have to pay a percentage to a nearby town ruler for 'protection'.  In the town there would be rents on shops and houses to be collected, and a sales tax on goods exchanged there.  The rents, and the gatehouse rules, would be controlled by whoever built the walls (or claimed ownership).  Since there might be a bit of back and forth, perhaps the money and the controls would be in the gatehouse which could be accessed only by the owner, or by force... perhaps possession of it for a day or two til you have full control over it.

Sales tax would go to whoever keeps trade safe between the cities.  I would think this would be the king... or President or Grand High Dragon Wizard or whatever you want to call it.  Market places are established in towns by said ruler with the 'accept' dialogue  between him and the town ruler.  The idea is he'll ensure authorized caravans can travel safely.

I think there should be a lot of tax as only organized groups should be able to afford the really good armour and siege equipment etc.  We don't want a guy to sell his first harvest and buy full plate then go killing noobs (a guy who wants to be a bandit should be armed like a bandit in WB single player).  But we do want guys fighting big battles in good gear which would be returned... unless the guy decides to desert... so don't equip new players with your best gear.

For all you anachronists out there that want a democracy or theocracy or whatever can still vote who your leaders are, but you'll just have to trust him once he's in that he won't enact martial rule.