Author Topic: 04.5.4  (Read 27676 times)

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Offline POOPHAMMER

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2016, 01:37:46 pm »
+4
Weapon difficulty adjustments will follow

Hey guys the mod is almost dead any plans?

Why yes, lets just make the remaining people leave by sucking every last bit of enjoyment out, that'll show them!
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Offline Butan

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2016, 02:16:50 pm »
-3
Hey guys the mod is almost dead any plans?

Why yes, lets just make the remaining people leave by sucking every last bit of enjoyment out, that'll show them!

Better late than never, and...

Quote
Global respec and item exchange coming soon..

I think most slipped over that part...
That should show you  :P


Offline Kadeth

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2016, 02:28:18 am »
+4
Still not entirely sure how I feel about this patch, but honestly, running around with 70+ body armour and 8 or more aths was pretty ridiculous. At least we should see less of that now.
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Offline Rico

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2016, 02:50:30 am »
0
Experience has taught me that differing opinions can be resolved by examination of facts and employment of common sense.  Also I've been wrong once.  I thought I was wrong but it turned out I was right.

Common sense resolves the issue, but not from the perspective of realism. Even though realism is a fun topic I bring up all the time because it gives room for creativity, all attempts to explain balance with realism are futile. This applies to players' as well as balancers' perspectives. What's realistic and what isn't can and often will be distorted within a video game. Everything can be rationalized with realism in a more or less convincing manner, be it a concept that supports or undermines balance. That's the point I was trying to get across.

Consequently, your common sense explanation takes another view: The leveling system had been changed long ago. However, balancers forgot to adjust STR requirements. Because of this mistake, the highlevel-whoring community got used to equipping almost all items regardless of their builds. Now STR requirements have been adjusted, and the luxury of playing agility-centered and balanced builds without any effective armor restrictions is gone. Sorry there's been an obviously overpowered niche during all this time. And extra sorry for those who relied on it to the extent that their enjoyment was solely constituted by it. But neither of that was ever meant to happen in the first place.

Nobody intended to let the new leveling system affect balance. However, not enough measures had been taken during the introduction of the new leveling system, so it DID affect balance. The current patches are meant to revert to the previous balance. Except that the new leveling system is kept, because reverting to the old leveling system is unfortunately no option.
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Offline Tristan_of_Erzoth

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2016, 07:55:25 am »
+2
the thing that makes me the most annoyed is the fact that every armor isnt an increment of 3
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Offline Malaclypse

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2016, 07:59:51 am »
+1
You really want to see buttdevastation levels rise to an unprecedented level? Have agility requirements somehow/sometimes. Hell, have DUAL STR/AGI requirements for some armor, weapons, etc. Do it you nerds, I dare you!
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Offline POOPHAMMER

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2016, 01:27:21 pm »
+6
You really want to see buttdevastation levels rise to an unprecedented level? Have agility requirements somehow/sometimes. Hell, have DUAL STR/AGI requirements for some armor, weapons, etc. Do it you nerds, I dare you!

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Offline Butan

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2016, 01:57:12 pm »
+2
You really want to see buttdevastation levels rise to an unprecedented level? Have agility requirements somehow/sometimes. Hell, have DUAL STR/AGI requirements for some armor, weapons, etc. Do it you nerds, I dare you!

Indeed.
Wielding a katana doesnt need much STR, but a lot of agility! I say, lets bring it up to 30 agility pre-req, only the master agi weaboo will be able to spam us to death.

Offline Turkhammer

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2016, 05:21:39 pm »
0
Common sense resolves the issue, but not from the perspective of realism. Even though realism is a fun topic I bring up all the time because it gives room for creativity, all attempts to explain balance with realism are futile. This applies to players' as well as balancers' perspectives. What's realistic and what isn't can and often will be distorted within a video game. Everything can be rationalized with realism in a more or less convincing manner, be it a concept that supports or undermines balance. That's the point I was trying to get across.

Consequently, your common sense explanation takes another view: The leveling system had been changed long ago. However, balancers forgot to adjust STR requirements. Because of this mistake, the highlevel-whoring community got used to equipping almost all items regardless of their builds. Now STR requirements have been adjusted, and the luxury of playing agility-centered and balanced builds without any effective armor restrictions is gone. Sorry there's been an obviously overpowered niche during all this time. And extra sorry for those who relied on it to the extent that their enjoyment was solely constituted by it. But neither of that was ever meant to happen in the first place.

Nobody intended to let the new leveling system affect balance. However, not enough measures had been taken during the introduction of the new leveling system, so it DID affect balance. The current patches are meant to revert to the previous balance. Except that the new leveling system is kept, because reverting to the old leveling system is unfortunately no option.

Thanks for your explanation.  I just took issue with your original statement to the effect of medieval soldiers being too weak to wear armor.  If it was meant to be an allegory to explain the reasoning behind the patch I understand.

Offline N1PS

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2016, 05:48:51 pm »
+3
Any estimate on the global respec and item exchange?
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Offline Rico

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2016, 05:54:45 pm »
-2
Thanks for your explanation.  I just took issue with your original statement to the effect of medieval soldiers being too weak to wear armor.  If it was meant to be an allegory to explain the reasoning behind the patch I understand.

Np
It's so tempting to bullshit about with realism, sorry I guess

Small addon: old balance took retiring people as an orientation which were level 30 back then. we can't do that anymore because most people are level 37/38 now. that's 7-8 attributes difference, or even more since most people convert at least some skills to attributes. it's no big deal to dump half of that into STR. that's why most items get a global +4 difficulty. exceptions are items that get new stats, consequently also new requirements. and peasant items, which get scaled up in a linear and transparent fashion until they "meet" the non-peasant items with their +4 requirements
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Offline Jona

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2016, 06:24:39 pm »
+5
Small addon: old balance took retiring people as an orientation which were level 30 back then. we can't do that anymore because most people are level 37/38 now. that's 7-8 attributes difference, or even more since most people convert at least some skills to attributes.

Not quite. Almost no one was actually level 30 back in the day, just like no one is level 34 nowadays. Before the high level patch everyone was level 34-35, with a few 36's. Therefore, people only really have a few more points to spend. Increasing difficulty on items (weapons especially) shouldn't be so drastic. The long maul and great maul now require 6 and 3 more str to use respectively after that patch, and yet in the proposed item changes (the ones not yet implemented) I saw their difficulties were way higher. This means that someone who only received 3 extra points to put into str would have to invest maybe 6 or 9 more just to use a weapon they could have used before. Same goes for armors... you used to be able to wear anything with only 18 str (maybe 21? I don't quite recall), now after getting 3 points to spend in str you jack up high-tier armor's difficulty to be 29, requiring 11 or so more points invested. Sure, armor requirements were too low before, but this large of an increase is just ridiculous.

Face it, no new players are joining crpg. "Balancing" the game such that the few veterans left can't even use their favorite gear anymore is just silly, and only helps finish off the mod.
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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2016, 06:46:11 pm »
+2
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people are like potatoes, they come in different shapes and sizes and they all are beautifull
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Offline RD_Professor

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2016, 06:52:57 pm »
+62
We've been tiptoeing around this for far too long. Just give all characters level 60 and free heirlooms, and up the combat speed to max. We can finally turn cRPG into the hardcore agiwhore spamfest that it was meant to be. Only then can we ascend our melee skills to those of the gods.
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Offline Jarold

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Re: 04.5.4
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2016, 08:37:35 pm »
0
Not quite. Almost no one was actually level 30 back in the day, just like no one is level 34 nowadays.

I'm the only one who was and is permanently level 30 and 34 thanks to all my respec'ing!  :oops:


Any estimate on the global respec and item exchange?

Pls