Leave or stay in the EU?

[Tomas_Miles_again]

I'm not sure if you're talking about me. But if anything I'm more worried than I was before about the threat of violent crime. But we will see over the next few years the direction my country is heading. I'd love to be wrong about thinking we might see repeats of some of the shitty events of the 1930s.

[Oberyn]

Well, a lot of people are probably less worried about the threat of violent crime now that maybe, just maybe, immigration policy can start resembling something at least partway sane. But that is a no-no thought, of course. Maybe I'd take your instant Godwin seriously if this sort of "SLIPPERY SLOPE TO FASCIST YMCA" alarmist bullcrap hadn't been pulled over, and over, and over again. Regressives are starting to get some wear and tear on their propaganda.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

I guess my first-hand experience of immigrants is a little different to yours. The anti-immigration 'propaganda' doesn't match up with the people I know and encounter every day. Being a highly-skilled immigrant doesn't stop people from racially abusing you and telling you to go back to your own country. Even being from this country doesn't mean much to some of the people who have been harassing people of colour.

I'd much rather it was all unfounded propaganda though.

[Leshma]

Don't fall for his ebul immigrants argument. That's only that matter to him in this whole mess. Doesn't give two fucks about Britain, Europe or millions of people whose businesses will crash because of Brexit. People who were dependent on UK being part of EU. But no it is way important that pensioner living in some far away English village, unhappy by fact that capitol is run by brown skinned man, get to vote for independence therefore fucking over thousands of people and their families.

Who gives a fuck about real world struggles when we can worry about something so important like national identity and heritage?

[Oberyn]

I guess my first-hand experience of immigrants is a little different to yours. The anti-immigration 'propaganda' doesn't match up with the people I know and encounter every day. Being a highly-skilled immigrant doesn't stop people from racially abusing you and telling you to go back to your own country. Even being from this country doesn't mean much to some of the people who have been harassing people of colour.

I'd much rather it was all unfounded propaganda though.

Of course, suggesting immigrants can be violent and criminal is propaganda, but when you fear for your safety because the ebil right-wingers won a political referendum it's completely understandable. There is not ounce of truth to the suggestion that certain immigrant groups are disprortionately represented in violent crime, it's nothing but racist claptrap.

[Oberyn]

Don't fall for his ebul immigrants argument. That's only that matter to him in this whole mess. Doesn't give two fucks about Britain, Europe or millions of people whose businesses will crash because of Brexit. People who were dependent on UK being part of EU. But no it is way important that pensioner living in some far away English village, unhappy by fact that capitol is run by brown skinned man, get to vote for independence therefore fucking over thousands of people and their families.

Who gives a fuck about real world struggles when we can worry about something so important like national identity and heritage?

The "arguements" of the Remain camp were 100% race baiting propaganda before the vote even started, and went into overdrive once they realized they lost, but keep pretending I'm just bringing these things up out of the ether because of some sort of compulsive need.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

The main argument of the Remain camp is that Leave don't have a plan for what will happen to the country next.

[Osiris]

that arguement is silly though.

how can you have a plan that isnt "negotiate our exit and see where we go from then"
The leave campaign isnt the govt so they cant say what they will do because they dont have the power to do it.

Thats like me never quitting a job because i dont know exactly what the next one will be

[Tomas_Miles_again]

You can look for a new job while you are in your current job, you can hand in your notice, then transition into your new job.

Some of the Leave campaign were in government...

[Leshma]

The "arguements" of the Remain camp were 100% race baiting propaganda before the vote even started, and went into overdrive once they realized they lost, but keep pretending I'm just bringing these things up out of the ether because of some sort of compulsive need.

I'm not denying that. When I called British politicians idiots, wasn't referring only to Farage and Leave camp. Remain campaign was bad and people who led it are incompetent. Cameron should be shot for what he did, jumped ship as soon he had valid excuse to do it. Fucking wussy.

This decision will have serious ramifications and none of politicians, Remain and Leave camps, are wiling to get a hold of things and do what majority voted for. Farage is now playing dumb, why he don't push this over the line after waiting 20 years for it? In the end, Queen will have to do it...

Don't forget, both Remain and Leave camps lost positions in EU parliament. Bet Leavers hoped people would vote stay so they keep the jobs at EU and look good because they fought hard for their cause but ultimately lost. Now they lost jobs, got bag of issues to be solved and huge responsibility.

[Grytviken]

Don't fall for his ebul immigrants argument. That's only that matter to him in this whole mess. Doesn't give two fucks about Britain, Europe or millions of people whose businesses will crash because of Brexit. People who were dependent on UK being part of EU. But no it is way important that pensioner living in some far away English village, unhappy by fact that capitol is run by brown skinned man, get to vote for independence therefore fucking over thousands of people and their families.

Who gives a fuck about real world struggles when we can worry about something so important like national identity and heritage?

I think the economic repercussions of this "brexit" are widely exaggerated and were mostly remain propaganda, I don't think much will change at all. Scotland and Northern Ireland will never be accepted into the EU either, the EU is a bureaucratic member's only club and  they don't meet the requirements.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

It's difficult to tell but some places are already getting a bit jumpy about the upcoming lack of EU subsidies, like Cornwall for example.

[Grytviken]

It's difficult to tell but some places are already getting a bit jumpy about the upcoming lack of EU subsidies, like Cornwall for example.

Those subsidies are just a small rebate on the UK's high contributions that most other nation's don't have to pay. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland all trade within the single market and contribute very little to the EU budget, Norway contributes 400 million and has full access to the EU market, the UK contributes 17 billion to receive the same treatment.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

I guess we'll have to assume the government will spend these savings on the places/industries that got the rebates. Whoever Cameron's successor is will have to negotiate the single market deal won't they?

[Leshma]

Those subsidies are just a small rebate on the UK's high contributions that most other nation's don't have to pay. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland all trade within the single market and contribute very little to the EU budget, Norway contributes 400 million and has full access to the EU market, the UK contributes 17 billion to receive the same treatment.

We pay, but have no say: that’s the reality of Norway’s relationship with the EU